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[ajowers]

this past week I built a new computer and load the very latest build of windows 10 Pro 64bit.

Hardware:

ASRock J3455-ITX Intel Quad-Core Processor
Twin sticks of 2GB RAM (total of 4GB)
Boot drive 4TB Seagate
(2) data drives 8TB Seagate

All new equipment.

Windows installed and the ASRock drivers including chipset etc.

the computer burned in for a week while I copied my files from various network drive at my home.  copies took as long as 10 hours.  I finished copying 15TB of my data without errors or hardware issues onto the machine.

I installed latest build of Media center 25 and loaded my license.

I configured autoimport for the 3 drives/folders.  Each time it start and after 15 seconds the program just disappears. I checked Windows Event viewer Logs.

there are no system errors or windows error.  Under application log each time MEdia center crashes of course the is an error reported.

I followed the help that mc25 provides, fully uninstalled, rebooted, reinstalled and configured autoimport and again it happens.

I then checked security on each the drives/folders and verify the one user on the machine (administrator) was the owner and had full control and applied rights to all objects and subfolders.

this made no difference.

I have built many MC machines for myself over the years and for friends using these embedded low heat low power motherboards like this.  My first was the ATOM processor.

Can anyone please provide me with something to go on?  since I am not seeing any hardware errors under windows System log, I just do not have anything to go on here.  Normally I can diagnose this stuff as I have built computers for 30 years, tons of them.  The memory is the correct speed for the motherboard also.  4GB is a bit low but with mc25 loaded it doesn't report that I am out of memory.  Could it simply be out?  Does Win 10 + MC25 require more than 4GB ?  (I have an ATOM computer on 2GB and windows 7 and it works just fine with MC25)

There are no other devices on the machine.  Just the mainboard+quad core celereon+4GB ram. and the 3 hard drives, all SATA.

Please help me get this going.

Thanks,

Anthony

[JimH]

Check the Windows Defender thread on the MC26 board and follow its instructions.

[RoderickGI]

If not Windows Defender, then the second most common cause to MC just disappearing is Auto Import hitting a corrupt media file. At least based on reports here.

Turn on logging. You will need to open MC after a crash and due the Report function and then look at the Previous Log, as I don't think there will be a Dump file. Find out what file MC was trying to import. Check it for corruption, or move it out of the Auto Import path, and try again.

Google tools for checking for corruption in audio files. If that is the cause, I believe some tools can analyse and report or repair the files in batches.

See how that goes.

[ajowers]

Thank you so much for the replies.  I added the Defender exceptions for both executable and data folders for MC.  Still had the issue.  I then added the 3 media folders and the issue went away.  The media center has ran all afternoon and all night.  Still has not crashed MC.  I believe this fixed it. 

This must be a new issue on the very latest build of Win 10.  I am on v1909.

Why is MC different?  Is it because background services are modifying files? as opposed to foreground threads ?

Like I create or open a word document then save and update a file.  Why is MC different from this?  It must be a windows service I am guessing that trips Defender.

What it means is that as I add new parent media folders to auto-import config I also have this step to perform.

If you could simply create an exception against each executable .... or ...

Seems like there would be a way to "register" an application or service with Defender which would create and store a checksum against the executables and certify them for execution.  Then if the checksum ever does not match when it loads it raises a red flag in Defender.  It would mean that each new update of MC would then be subject to scrutiny and re-registration.

[JimH]

There's no way to say why.  Antivirus programs are a mystery.  For obvious reasons, not much is known about the details of how they work.

It's extremely common that one build of MC will trigger a response, but others won't.

This is not a problem with MC, but with the antivirus software and, as you've found out, its settings.

[ajowers]

I too as a software provider have ran into this.  I have purchased some 3rd party utility libraries and was supplied .dll files which were used by some virus maker such that the inclusion of these .dll files into my product raised red flags in the anti virus.  Users were told things like "This software contains elements known to be Trojan bla bla bla".

This will really piss you off....as the users begin to call all upset that your software contains a trojan etc etc.

So, if you use 3rd party binaries or .dll files this is a possibility. However the issue began when I would initiate the autoimport, so it was a function of Defender detecting an app modifying file after file with meta data and it recognizes a pattern I suppose.

I assume you have the highest level code signing certificate on the executables right ?

[dtc]

I added the Defender exceptions for both executable and data folders for MC.  Still had the issue.  I then added the 3 media folders and the issue went away.  The media center has ran all afternoon and all night.  Still has not crashed MC.  I believe this fixed it. 

It is helpful to get such a clear cut Defender issue and a solution. So, could you try one thing as an experiment. It would be appreciated, if you have the time.

The Microsoft documentation says that if you do the exceptions in a certain way for the Program Files/J RIver folder, then you do not have to do exceptions for the media folders. That happens automatically.  Your case seems to be a way to check if that is really true. 

Remove the media folder exceptions. And add a Folder exception for Program Files\J River and and Process exception for Program Files\J River\*.  The Folder and Process options come up when you hit Add An Exclusion. According to Microsoft documentation doing a folder exception and an process exception should exclude the program and its files, as well as all the files that the programs open.  It is not clear if the \* is necessary for the Process exception, but Microsoft includes it.

That would be a good test of something that is just theoretical at this time, based on somewhat sketchy Microsoft documentation.

Hope you have the time.  Thanks.

[ajowers]

Having built the machine for a friend I have it sitting on the kitchen counter but I can hook back up and try the test for you.

So, remove all media folder exceptions.

Add process exception for program files jriver

test

correct?

[dtc]

Correct.

The only J River exceptions would be these, assuming 64 bit J River and c: as your system disk.

C:\Program Files\J River
Folder

C:\Program Files\J River\*
Process


If this works as advertised, it simplifies the exception list by not having to include all the media folders and drives. It also means you do not have to remember to exclude new media folder if you create one.

Thanks a lot.

[ajowers]

Step 1.  I removed the 3 media folder exceptions.  Launched media center. no issue.

I rebooted.  Launch MC - no issues.

I have ran auto-import over and over, randomly played files on hard drive left and right. rebooted again.  No problems.

My asumption is now that one if the two folder exclusions actually fixed it but simply required a reboot afterwards ...

or --- somehow its a defender bug, having marked all files as excluded, that the removal of the exception makes no difference.

Step 2.  I will add new media in a new folder not configured under auto-import.

[ajowers]

After removing the media folder exceptions ...

Update:
I added a new folder on a new drive to auto-import config.  MC imported without any errors.

So, I believe that adding the original 2 folder exceptions actually solved the issue but a reboot was likley required which I did not do.  I did no further testing since the test was blown due to not being able to reproduce the issue once I had removed the media folder exceptions.

[dtc]

Yes, I think you figured it out. Not sure why adding the media folders helped at one point, but it is pretty clear you do not need to exclude them.  My additions would show the same results, I am sure.

Thanks for working through this.