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[murray]

Murray,
Give jmone's instructions a try.  I'd bet on him over most PC guys.

We are just updating the 1080ti drivers now, they go back to about to 1 1/2 years ago. Plus Windows 10 is also being updated, will report back in an hour or so after testing. Lets hope and pray this fixes the dropped/repeated frames when bitstreaming

[murray]

...and also get him to do all the latest Windows 10 updates!

Ok we have updated the drivers and windows 10 and I've started to test.

The results are very different and better but some things are worse.

At the moment I'm up to 28 mins and it has only dropped 1 frame, no repeats. There were the usual many dropped frames right on startup eight, but we know that's normal.

The odd thing thats never happened before is the presentation glitches, they started off as 12 and after 28min they are now on 55, what is this and is this something we notice on the screen?

[jmone]

One step forward, one back.  Couple of things to check:

See if these are still set
- nvidia control panel --> manage 3D Settings --> Vertical Sync --> On
- nvidia control panel --> manage 3D Settings --> Power Management Mode --> Prefer Maximum Performance

In madVR's setup:
- rendering -> general settings, and uncheck 'enable automatic fullscreen exclusive mode'
- rendering -> windowed mode settings, and set 'how many video frames shall be presented in advance' to 1 or a maximum of 3


@Rec Head.  Good to hear.  I can't remember the date but at some point a nvidia driver release mostly fixed the 23.976 timing issue.  I've tested now to JVC PJ, Sony OLED TV, LG OLED TV, and Philips LCD Monitor.  All were acceptable (eg no frame drops / repeats in 30min).

[murray]

One step forward, one back.  Couple of things to check:

See if these are stills set
- nvidia control panel --> manage 3D Settings --> Vertical Sync --> On
- nvidia control panel --> manage 3D Settings --> Power Management Mode --> Prefer Maximum Performance

In madVR's setup:
- rendering -> general settings, and uncheck 'enable automatic fullscreen exclusive mode'
- rendering -> windowed mode settings, and set 'how many video frames shall be presented in advance' to 1 or a maximum of 3


@Rec Head.  Good to hear.  I can't remember the date but at some point a nvidia driver release mostly fixed the 23.976 timing issue.  I've tested now to JVC PJ, Sony OLED TV, LG OLED TV, and Philips LCD Monitor.  All were acceptable (eg no frame drops / repeats in 30min).

ok the two settings on the card remained saved from yesterday
I only use window mode so exclusive was off.
Frames present in advance was on 8 so Im now testing with it on 2 and I will report back in 30 mins.

Things are looking up!
And again a very big thank you for all your time you have spent helping me, I really appreciate it

[murray]

Present 2 is no good, testing on 1 and its dropped 20 frames in 5mins and repeated 1. The renderer queue is jumping around also, its not good. Glitches have stopped which is good. I will try 3.

[jmone]

Here are my madVR render settings for the JVC.

[murray]

ok 3 by itself was no good, just trying this one you sent.

[murray]

Its not great on 3 or the sliders changed to yours. Stuff is jumping round in the stats.

[jmone]

OK - if your IT guy is still there, try the following:
- Do a "clean" install of the new Graphics Driver (it is in the "Custom" button when doing the upgrade).  Reboot and test
- If that does still not work try DDU which will wipe all traces of the old driver so you can do a fresh install https://www.wagnardsoft.com/content/ddu-guide-tutorial

[jmone]

FYI - any time you bring up that Top MC menu you WILL get drops/glitches.  If you use the Video OSD (say arrow keys on the RC/Keyboard it should not cause issues). 

[murray]

FYI - any time you bring up that Top MC menu you WILL get drops/glitches.  If you use the Video OSD (say arrow keys on the RC/Keyboard it should not cause issues).

ok very good to know thank you.

[jmone]

Other interactions, even wiggling the mouse around or doing something on a 2nd screen (if you have one attached) can also cause issues.  For testing, just hit play and leave it.

[murray]

Other interactions, even wiggling the mouse around or doing something on a 2nd screen (if you have one attached) can also cause issues.  For testing, just hit play and leave it.

Ok all that is very good to know, this round of tests I have present Q on 4 and things are looking more stable. Ive been running 10mins and only had 7 fropped frames at the start and nothing else so far. The frame drop stats are now up to one frame drop every 40mins so that is looking very nice, fingers crossed.

I have told my pc man to just wait before doing anything else. So far so good!

[JimH]

Don't touch it now.  Watch a movie.  Well done both Murray and jmone.

[jmone]

1 per 40min sounds about right.

This is also one of the reason I really like JRVR vs madVR.  No more endless tweaking, black magic, 1,000 different suggestions on random settings no one really understands.  JRVR "Just Works".

Jim's right..... at some point, if it is "good enough" leave it be and enjoy the movie.  I'm soooo over pixel peeping with this stuff and I just want it to work.

[murray]

Well Ive had to start the film again.
I kept going back and thinking everything was amazing and only had 1 dropped frame after 1.5 hrs, but I realised that the frame of film had frozen, I had to restart the PC to free it all up. However the stats were saying only one dropped frame every 58mins, excellent so far!.....Maybe with all the changes the PC really needed a restart.

So another test has just now started and I will report back.
If we now have this finally nailed I will in start to watch some Atmos films bitstreaming....
Then when all is good I will test JRVR as that was the only reason I bought 29 for.

Fingers crossed the PC doesnt freeze again, it never does unless lots of changes are being made... Do you also notice that?
And thank you also Jim.

[jmone]

Yeah, when in doubt reboot... esp after changes to drivers etc (should not need it when just playing with settings inside madVR).

[murray]

Yeah, when in doubt reboot... esp after changes to drivers etc (should not need it when just playing with settings inside madVR).

Ok Ive done exactly one hour and only had 1 frame drop so far, this is "Out of this World" !!!!!!!!

[murray]

I cant believe it, 1hr 20mins and still only 1 dropped frame OMG!

[jmone]

Sounds good!  How the ATMOS?

[murray]

Yeah, when in doubt reboot... esp after changes to drivers etc (should not need it when just playing with settings inside madVR).

jmone this is looking like finally a very good outcome, wow!
I played all of the new Death on the Nile 2hr 7mins. 1080p upscaled with madvr to 4K.
I started the film at 1.51pm.
At start 8 dropped frames, all normal there.
At 35 mins 1 dropped frame up until 3.30pm then I had the second dropped frame.
So I got 1hr and 10mins before a second dropped frame.
This means I played an 2hr 7min film with just 2 dropped frames!
This is unheard of here!!!!
I just cant believe what Im seeing OMG!

Im now testing the same film UHD 4K version and see what results are. Will report back....

I suppose I dont need my IT guy to do this for me now do I?
OK - if your IT guy is still there, try the following:
- Do a "clean" install of the new Graphics Driver (it is in the "Custom" button when doing the upgrade).  Reboot and test
- If that does still not work try DDU which will wipe all traces of the old driver so you can do a fresh install https://www.wagnardsoft.com/content/ddu-guide-tutorial

[jmone]

Nope - sounds like you are all set.

[murray]

Nope - sounds like you are all set.

I think Ive just had a very early Christmas and thanks to you for hanging in with me on all this, you never gave up and thats amazing!
So will the timings be good on all other content, 24, 50, 60 etc etc?

[jmone]

No probs - it's all comes around and the community here is great.

I'm not sure, as we only use the theatre for movie nights ... and most movies are 23.976fps (I've a couple of Euro 24fps releases).  I've heaps of 50fps material and never noticed any issue but then again they tend to be much short in duration.  I'll run up Gemini Man (UHD @ 59.94) and see how that one goes.

[murray]

No probs - it's all comes around and the community here is great.

I'm not sure, as we only use the theatre for movie nights ... and most movies are 23.976fps (I've a couple of Euro 24fps releases).  I've heaps of 50fps material and never noticed any issue but then again they tend to be much short in duration.  I'll run up Gemini Man (UHD @ 59.94) and see how that one goes.

Ive never been able to run Gemini Man 4K without it dropping frames like crazy, I wonder now if it might be ok...

[jmone]

No issues with JRVR (as it is more efficient), but on madVR I had to setup a profile for such high frame rate material, as the 1660Ti could not handle it either.  I can post some screen shots that show the key differences.

[jmone]

Ive never been able to run Gemini Man 4K without it dropping frames like crazy, I wonder now if it might be ok...

Do me a favour?  For fun, change to JRVR and see if you can play Gemini Man UHD.

.... under madVR, all I needed to do was create a profile as follows for such content to play well (but this is on my 1660Ti and your 1080Ti will/may have a different performance threshold).  TIJ created a post about madvr profiles - https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=124136.0

edit - I may be offline for a bit..... I was explaining in another post how to use the "Rename / Move" tool in MC and managed to stuff up my library!  Time to unstuff it

[murray]

ok everything is running fine but Ive come across one issue. I have used JR for many many years to run a small film club here at home, we screen once a week. I make up playlists on JR, maybe three or four trailers and some logos Ive made up all mkv and all screen in order on the playlist before the feature. They work seemlessly and are fantastic for running a professional show just as we once did by joining up 35mm shorts/trailers in the cinema. The playlist section on JR is great for this.

Ive just been testing one of my playlists I used a week ago and all has run through on the trailers fine being DD, but one of my made logos is PCM, when it reached this mkv file it stuttered, frames dropped and repeated and then froze. I stopped it and restarted it to run a second time, when the playlist reached the PCM MKV the same thing again. This has never happened when I use JR LPCM, it looks like bitstreaming it doesnt like any PCM material in the playlist, do you think this is right or not?

[murray]

Do me a favour?  For fun, change to JRVR and see if you can play Gemini Man UHD.

.... under madVR, all I needed to do was create a profile as follows for such content to play well (but this is on my 1660Ti and your 1080Ti will/may have a different performance threshold).  TIJ created a post about madvr profiles - https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=124136.0

edit - I may be offline for a bit..... I was explaining in another post how to use the "Rename / Move" tool in MC and managed to stuff up my library!  Time to unstuff it

I cant do this to test as yet, although I have bought 29 we still havent installed it, but now we will since this stuff seems to be fixed. I just tested it again and it wont play but might try your profile. But first I need to sort this pcm file when bitstreaming problem  ?

[jmone]

PCM should be fine.  Can you post a link to the file somewhere?

EDIT:  PCM is never bit streamed anyway (regardless of the setting in MC).  To test, change back to decoding and try the file again to see if the issue is still there.

[Hendrik]

If you mostly bitstream now, I would recommend to turn off VideoClock, as it doesnt work with bitstreaming anyway, and you won't get any surprises if a PCM file is played in between, just to rule out additional factors.

[jmone]

If it's a playlist of various individual files (assumption) why would VideoClock matter as wouldn't each file would get it's own filter graph?

[murray]

PCM should be fine.  Can you post a link to the file somewhere?

EDIT:  PCM is never bit streamed anyway (regardless of the setting in MC).  To test, change back to decoding and try the file again to see if the issue is still there.

I've restarted the PC again and the PCM file seems to play ok now. I have just turned off video clock as I really think I will just stay with bitstreaming from now on.

[murray]

If you mostly bitstream now, I would recommend to turn off VideoClock, as it doesnt work with bitstreaming anyway, and you won't get any surprises if a PCM file is played in between, just to rule out additional factors.

Thanks for that Ive turned it off.

[murray]

With the update of the card and windows today I noticed the image was alot blacker, gamma or something was off. Looks like the card must have reverted to some default settings, there was no tick in the box on the adjust desktop color settings, I ticked the box and then 16/235 came back. I take it that this box must be ticked to turn everything off, correct?

[jmone]

I've no idea on that.

[JimH]

I cant do this to test as yet, although I have bought 29 we still havent installed it, but now we will since this stuff seems to be fixed.

Why are you posting on the MC29 board?

[murray]

Why are you posting on the MC29 board?

Good question, I thought I was on 29!
I bought 29 sometime ago just for JRVR and asked my It guy to install it, I only learnt yesterday when he was updating my drivers and Windows that he hadn't   ?
Im hoping he will update me today as Im eager to start testing JRVR.

[JimH]

Leave MC28 in place.  Install MC29.  It will find your library and leave your MC28 settings as they are so you can always go backward.  You don't need an IT person to install it.

[murray]

Leave MC28 in place.  Install MC29.  It will find your library and leave your MC28 settings as they are so you can always go backward.  You don't need an IT person to install it.

Thank you so much for that info Jim.
I seem to be back with troubles though again today. Ive been testing again this morning and the same film that only had two dropped frames after 2 hours yesterday has today dropped 1500 frames in less than 1 hour, Im just about ready to cry

[JimH]

Before you do, please install MC29.  The JRVR changes alone are worth the trouble.

[murray]

Before you do, please install MC29.  The JRVR changes alone are worth the trouble.

Jim my email says to do a backup first of 28 is that important?

[JimH]

File > Backup > Library Manager > Backup

Always a good idea.

[jmone]

Thank you so much for that info Jim.
I seem to be back with troubles though again today. Ive been testing again this morning and the same film that only had two dropped frames after 2 hours yesterday has today dropped 1500 frames in less than 1 hour, Im just about ready to cry

That is odd.  Reboot, play the video again and post a screen shot of the stats.

[murray]

That is odd.  Reboot, play the video again and post a screen shot of the stats.

Ok Im on 9 now but new problems after the changeover. When I try to bitstream I get a terrible screeching noise, Ive restarted JR a few times but it just wont bitstream correctly. I cant do anymore for a few hours as I have friends arriving for lunch very soon. Ive turned everything off and will test after they leave.

[murray]

Im back testing and still cant get audio on MC9 with bitstreaming, just a loud clatter screach. It was perfect on MC28. I think it has something to do with DSP as sometimes a message come up for thta, however i never use that on my McIntosh pre pro. What can I try please?....

10mins later finally fixed it, wasapi was off, infact many things ever came across from MC28 to MC29, lots of "my" old settings were not saved, still sorting some stuff out. My setup isnt conventional, I have Event Ghost plus the madvr with the UHD patch, and a fairly complex operating system on the ipad for controling everything in the cinema. Lots of things have changed, scaling, desktop going to sleep etc etc... its taking time to sort out. Im almost there and need to start testing that the droped frames are still ok, when everything is 100% working again its time to start trying JRVR.

[jmone]

Keep plugging away and let us know how it all goes.

[murray]

Keep plugging away and let us know how it all goes.

Thanks for that Im doing so and sorting the last bits.
How do you get rid of the blue volumew bar that pops upo at the bottom of the screen between each mkv file in a playlist?
Also the menu is going to sleep if Im not playing anything, I want it to remain on?
I thinks thats the last stuff Im trying to sort....

[jmone]

Ahhhhh, someone else would need to chip in as I don't know about these two items (as In I've not noticed them to be able to comment).

[jmone]

Couple of hints when having both MC28 and MC29 on installed at the same time:
- Tools--> Options--> Startup--> Windows Startup--> Run on Windows Startup--> At least one should be "Nothing"
- Any changes you make to settings or importing media will only impact that instance of MC, so keep a track of which one you are playing with.

Once you are OK with MC29, I'd uninstall MC28 but check the option to leave the library behind so you have a copy of the old MC28 data just in case.