Topic: Help getting HDR to work (Read 2964 times)

Denti · « **on:** September 28, 2022, 09:27:14 pm »

Can’t get JRiver to output HDR. Running Windows 10. MadVR or JRVR makes no difference. Display is Epson 5050 projector. Running through Onkyo TX SR-494 receiver. I’m playing 4K files with HDR and the display does not show this: both visibly not present and there’s an HDR button on the projector that will indicate if it’s on. What should I do?

tzr916 · « **Reply #1 on:** September 29, 2022, 08:08:44 am »

For testing purposes only - go to windows Display Settings and click "Windows HD color settings", does it say Yes for "Use HDR" and "Use WCG apps"? And if you move the "Use HDR" slider to On, does the projector switch to HDR? If that is working, go ahead and turn HDR back to Off in windows settings and exit.

Then look in JRVR for "Screen is HDR", does it say yes? Do you have BOTH check marks for HDR checked? Play some HDR video, does HDR work? If not, while video is playing hit CTRL-J, then get a screen shot PRT-SCR, and post it here.

Denti · « **Reply #2 on:** September 29, 2022, 05:41:33 pm »

Quote from: tzr916 on September 29, 2022, 08:08:44 am

For testing purposes only - go to windows Display Settings and click "Windows HD color settings", does it say Yes for "Use HDR" and "Use WCG apps"? And if you move the "Use HDR" slider to On, does the projector switch to HDR? If that is working, go ahead and turn HDR back to Off in windows settings and exit.

Then look in JRVR for "Screen is HDR", does it say yes? Do you have BOTH check marks for HDR checked? Play some HDR video, does HDR work? If not, while video is playing hit CTRL-J, then get a screen shot PRT-SCR, and post it here.

Thanks! “Use HDR” and “USe WCG apps” both say “Yes.”

Under these is the button for “Use HDR,” which is set to “Off.” When I try to switch it on the screen goes blank for a few seconds then returns weith nothing changed.

In JRVR screen is HDR capable says “Yes.” Both boxes are checked. I’m still not getting HDR. Video with HDR is washed-out looking. Screen shot coming soon.

Denti · « **Reply #3 on:** September 29, 2022, 05:58:15 pm »

Here is a screenshot while video was playing.

tzr916 · « **Reply #4 on:** September 30, 2022, 08:23:40 am »

Quote from: Denti on September 29, 2022, 05:41:33 pm

...When I try to switch it on the screen goes blank for a few seconds then returns weith nothing changed...

So AFTER the screen returns, is "Use HDR" slider actually in the On position?

Please try the screen shot again - While playing HDR video, press CTRL-J (an information panel should pop up on the left side), then do a screen shot. We are interested in that pop-up information panel.

Denti · « **Reply #5 on:** September 30, 2022, 09:38:45 am »

Quote from: tzr916 on September 30, 2022, 08:23:40 am

So AFTER the screen returns, is "Use HDR" slider actually in the On position?

Please try the screen shot again - While playing HDR video, press CTRL-J (an information panel should pop up on the left side), then do a screen shot. We are interested in that pop-up information panel.

No, the slider stays in the Off position.

CTRL-J does not bring up an information panel for me. Should it? According to my quick search that shortcut is for checking for updates.

tzr916 · « **Reply #6 on:** September 30, 2022, 10:24:22 am »

CTRL-J has always been used to pull up the MadVR playback information, and it was added to JRVR in v29.0.1 (1/24/2022). See release notes:
NEW: Enabled Ctrl-J JRVR functionality in TV engine and non-DirectShow JR Video Player (on Windows, Mac, and Linux).

If the Windows HD Color "Use HDR" slider is not able to go to the On position then there could be something going on with HDR, not related to JRiver:
-What is your video card and driver version?
-If you go to Windows Display Settings > Advanced Display Settings, what is your Bit depth and Color format?

Denti · « **Reply #7 on:** September 30, 2022, 01:24:58 pm »

Thanks. I’m running 29.0.86. Looks like we have something else to troubleshoot.

I have Intel UHD 750 graphics, driver 31.0.101.3430

Color depth is BPC_8
Color format is YCBCR_420

When I switched to MadVR I was able to use the CTRL-J shortcut. I’m posting a screengrab in a minute. It certainly looks better with MadVR, but my projector still says it’s SDR.

eve · « **Reply #8 on:** September 30, 2022, 01:34:44 pm »

Color format should be RGB Full (sometimes called RGB_444) and depth should be 10bit.

If it isn't working after trying to manually set those (I think it's doable in the intel panel but it's been ages since I ran their iGPUs) your GPU isn't supporting it for some reason (it should) so possibly your cable can't take the bandwidth.

Denti · « **Reply #9 on:** September 30, 2022, 01:38:31 pm »

Could not change color depth. I changed color format to “RGB” but now I don’t have any image at all.

After forced restart RGB is selected and I was able to set the depth to 10bit. Also, the slider in the Windows system was automatically on HDR “On.” I turned it off and made another screengrab (posting soon). Projector still says it’s SDR.

eve · « **Reply #10 on:** September 30, 2022, 01:46:52 pm »

That sounds like a cable problem quite possibly.

Denti · « **Reply #11 on:** September 30, 2022, 01:50:54 pm »

screen grab:
https://ibb.co/JmK3cFn

Denti · « **Reply #12 on:** September 30, 2022, 01:52:04 pm »

Quote from: eve on September 30, 2022, 01:46:52 pm

That sounds like a cable problem quite possibly.

Identical cables that are sending HDR from my Sony UHD player, though I'm sending them through a receiver (HDR capable).

Denti · « **Reply #13 on:** September 30, 2022, 02:02:38 pm »

With color depth set to 10bit I cannot output 3840x2160 anymore.

I suspect eve is right. Looks like I need a DP to HDMI that takes 4k @60hz and HDR, and the one I have does not do HDR (and seems to be limited to 30hz, even though specs say it goes to 60). I had a different cable doing HDMI to HDMI and I don’t know the specs on that. I’ve ordered a new cable and will report back, though in the meantime I will try bypassing the receiver to see what happens.

tzr916 · « **Reply #14 on:** September 30, 2022, 04:20:18 pm »

You do not need to set the color depth to 10 bit. Just leave it at 8 bit and RGB.
When JRVR is running, it will make the correct color format/depth changes when HDR material is played.

Your Intel UHD 750 doesn't have an HDMI port?

Denti · « **Reply #15 on:** September 30, 2022, 04:25:05 pm »

It does have an HDMI port, but that only outputs 4k at 30hz. The DP port outputs at up to 60hz

eve · « **Reply #16 on:** September 30, 2022, 04:52:24 pm »

Quote from: Denti on September 30, 2022, 04:25:05 pm

It does have an HDMI port, but that only outputs 4k at 30hz. The DP port outputs at up to 60hz

Ah okay, now this all makes much more sense. So here's the thing, it's definitely a lack of capability of your DP > HDMI adapter. If you want the most futureproof and reliable one, the Club3D is excellent, it'll do DP > HDMI 2.1 4K 120hz.
https://www.amazon.com/Club-3D-DisplayPort1-4-Adapter-CAC-1085/dp/B08BX49V5V

If you go for a cheap one, you *might* have to order 1 or 2 to see what actually works for you.

Denti · « **Reply #17 on:** September 30, 2022, 04:59:14 pm »

Quote from: eve on September 30, 2022, 04:52:24 pm

Ah okay, now this all makes much more sense. So here's the thing, it's definitely a lack of capability of your DP > HDMI adapter. If you want the most futureproof and reliable one, the Club3D is excellent, it'll do DP > HDMI 2.1 4K 120hz.
https://www.amazon.com/Club-3D-DisplayPort1-4-Adapter-CAC-1085/dp/B08BX49V5V

If you go for a cheap one, you *might* have to order 1 or 2 to see what actually works for you.

I don’t use an adapter. I have a cable. I ordered this one:
https://www.amazon.com/CableCreation-Unidirectional-DisplayPort-Eyefinity-Multi-Display/dp/B082CXMBCQ/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1ZUJKHOC6G6MA&keywords=displayport+to+hdmi+4k+hdr&qid=1664571566&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIzLjEzIiwicXNhIjoiMi40MCIsInFzcCI6IjEuOTIifQ%3D%3D&s=electronics&sprefix=displayport+to+hdmi+4k+hdr%2Celectronics%2C112&sr=1-3

While I wait for that I’m trying the BestBuy one, which they could not guarantee would work.

(And indeed it does not.)

P.S. The MadVR settings make video with HDR look significantly better. No washed-out image. If I didn’t know better, I’d say HDR is working. But I can only use them wat the lowest setting, otherwise I get jerky image, which is too bad. I thought I had a pretty powerful PC.

tzr916 · « **Reply #18 on:** October 01, 2022, 08:49:30 am »

Quote from: Denti on September 30, 2022, 04:59:14 pm

...I thought I had a pretty powerful PC.

Hmm, I wouldn't ever consider onboard GPU's powerful enough for 4k@60Hz. They really can't compete with discrete graphics cards. My previous nvidia GT1030 card barely got by with madvr. It wasn't until I switched to GT1660 card that things really improved. JRVR is supposed to be better than madvr on low power systems. I certainly saw much lower CPU usage numbers after changing from madvr to JRVR.

You can see the difference between Intel 750 vs GT1030, and the huge difference between Intel 750 vs GT1660:

https://gadgetversus.com/graphics-card/intel-uhd-graphics-750-vs-nvidia-geforce-gt-1030/

https://gadgetversus.com/graphics-card/intel-uhd-graphics-750-vs-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1660/

Denti · « **Reply #19 on:** October 03, 2022, 04:17:36 pm »

Got the HDR-capable cable. Still can’t get HDR from JRiver. Any ideas?

JimH · « **Reply #20 on:** October 03, 2022, 04:52:08 pm »

Have you been to the wiki? https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/JRVR_-_JRiver_Video_Renderer/Configuration

Denti · « **Reply #21 on:** October 03, 2022, 04:57:17 pm »

Quote from: JimH on October 03, 2022, 04:52:08 pm

Have you been to the wiki? https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/JRVR_-_JRiver_Video_Renderer/Configuration

No, but everything there has been gone over upthread. I’m trying to figure out why I can’t get HDR. Is it JRiver, my PC, or my cable?

JimH · « **Reply #22 on:** October 03, 2022, 05:02:25 pm »

Quote from: Denti on October 03, 2022, 04:57:17 pm

No, but everything there has been gone over upthread. I’m trying to figure out why I can’t get HDR. Is it JRiver, my PC, or my cable?

It's not clear if you've read the HDR section of that wiki topic.

JimH · « **Reply #23 on:** October 03, 2022, 05:05:01 pm »

and a search for HDR should yield other helpful information.

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=132384.0

Denti · « **Reply #24 on:** October 03, 2022, 05:12:15 pm »

Quote from: JimH on October 03, 2022, 05:02:25 pm

It's not clear if you've read the HDR section of that wiki topic.

Now I have, and there’s nothing new there. Did you see what kind of troubleshooting we did upthread? Anything specifically at that page you think would help solve this? I don’t see anything.

JimH · « **Reply #25 on:** October 03, 2022, 05:26:06 pm »

The thing that is most unusual is the DisplayPort to HDMI cable.

Did HDMI to HDMI work at all?

Denti · « **Reply #26 on:** October 03, 2022, 05:44:08 pm »

Yeah, it looks like that DisplayPort is the issue. I can’t find a cable that will transmit 4k @60hz with HDR/HDR10. I bought one advertised as doing that but it can’t pass HDR10. It’s *really* hard to find one. I think I may have found one, but it’s over $30, so maybe I should just upgrade with a new video card and be done with it.

Here’s what I figured out:

- I can get HDR using HDMI output, but it’s limited to 30hz.
- HDR only works with JRVR
- When I turn on MadVR it does not work, unless I turn on the Windows system HDR (which I’m assuming is not a good idea)

So for now I will stick with 30hz image until I either find a decent DP to HDMI cable or upgrade to a separate GPU.

P.S. I ordered the GTX 1660. How do I get HDR to work with MadVR?

lepa · « **Reply #27 on:** October 04, 2022, 05:42:17 am »

In some televisions you need to check the hdmi hi-speed mode from the telly's settings. Probably not the case here but something to check at least.

Denti · « **Reply #28 on:** October 08, 2022, 10:19:26 pm »

Alright, let’s return to the main issue again. In the meantime I have a GTX 1660 TI GPU and an HDMI to HDMI cable capable of 8K and HDR.

But I’m still not getting HDR!

I had it briefly when I first installed the GPU, but the colors were wonky. So I updated the drivers. Now I’m not getting it at all. Note that I *was* able to get it (see my last post) with the Intel built-in graphics. But now with the upgraded GPU (suggested by tzr916) I can’t.

As before, Windows will not allow me to toggle to HDR, though it says my system and monitor are HDR capable. NVidea controls are limited. I can’t choose to output RGB colors, for instance.

Help!

tzr916 · « **Reply #29 on:** October 09, 2022, 08:51:05 am »

Do you get HDR on this projector using other stand alone source devices (bluray player or streaming box etc)? Do those devices pass through your AVR? Can you bypass your AVR (go straight from GPU to projector) to test HDR?

You really need to get 8bit RGB, and the HDR slider to work in windows before testing with MC. I would try the following:
- download a few nvidia driver packages https://www.nvidia.com/Download/Find.aspx (GeForce>16Series>DHC get latest and a few older ones, I am on v512.15)
- download DDU https://www.guru3d.com/files-details/display-driver-uninstaller-download.html (do not run yet)
- connect nvidia gpu directly to projector (bypass AVR)
- disconnect any secondary monitors
- boot into the BIOS of the PC and disable the onboard Intel graphics
- disconnect computer from internet/network
- run DDU in SAFE MODE and delete all nvidia and intel drivers
- after rebooting (into regular windows without internet/network) install your nvidia drivers, reboot
- set nvidia drivers to RGB 8bit, test if Windows HDR slider works

Denti · « **Reply #30 on:** October 09, 2022, 09:06:27 am »

Quote from: tzr916 on October 09, 2022, 08:51:05 am

Do you get HDR on this projector using other stand alone source devices (bluray player or streaming box etc)? Do those devices pass through your AVR? Can you bypass your AVR (go straight from GPU to projector) to test HDR?

Yes and yes. Standalone Panasonic UHD player goes through same AVR with same output. HDR no problem there. I can bypass AVR but not with MC, because it sends the audio too.

Thank you for your detailed troubleshooting steps! I'll get working on that soon.

Denti · « **Reply #31 on:** October 09, 2022, 11:24:07 am »

So I’m now getting NO signal at all when I connect directly to the projector. Note: I am using the same cable that goes from the AVR output. Note that this cable transmits 4K/60hz HDR from the standalone Panasonic. So it’s not the cable.

I’m going to skip this step and continue troubleshooting.

EDIT: I did all the steps and still cannot switch to RGB (no option in dropdown) or HDR (slider won’t shift).

P.S. I can get RGB when I switch from 60hz to 30hz. This may be a clue as to what’s going on.

P.P.S. I think I’ve figured it out. The cable I have going directly to the projector is apparently not capable of handling 4K + HDR + 60hz. I can do two of those three, but not all three. I found this out by checking the refresh rate of a UHD disc and noticing that it was 23.97. The only way to change this was to turn off HDR.

So I’m stuck with 24 or 30hz for the refresh, unless I want to rip up my wall (and I really don’t right now).

But since I got the GTX 1660 I might as well take advantage of the MadVR, right? Or is that pointless with only 30hz?

tzr916 · « **Reply #32 on:** October 09, 2022, 05:02:26 pm »

Since you are able to get RGB 8bit 4k @30Hz but not @60Hz, it seems something the PC doesn't like something about your cable or projector or AVR.

No signal on the projector when directly connected to PC is a big question mark to me. Your not getting the PC BIOS/boot up screens? Is the hdmi cable longer than 6 feet? Is it a long run that goes from a ceiling mount, through walls, etc? Can you try a regular 6 foot premium certified hdmi cable?

And you can try checking/changing some of the input signal settings in the projector (starting on page 114 of the user manual):
https://files.support.epson.com/docid/cpd5/cpd56386.pdf
Is Color Space set to Auto?
Is Dynamic Range set to Auto?
Is Video Range set to Auto?
Is EDID set to Enhanced?

After you get picture/RGB/HDR slider working when connected directly to the projector, you can also check similar input signal settings in the AVR.

I've experienced hard to solve hdmi edid issues with my Denon AVR, particularly when powering the AVR & Tv Off, and coming back later to power them On, there would be no signal on the tv. Only fix for this is toggling refresh rate between 59Hz/60Hz.
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,133715.0.html
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,132872.0.html

Denti · « **Reply #33 on:** October 09, 2022, 05:17:44 pm »

I’ll have to test it again, but I’m pretty sure I get a signal direct to the projector at 30hz. The issue, clearly, is the cable. My Panasonic is also limited to 24hz. With a choice of two of the three (4K, HDR, 60hz), I choose the first two.

The cable is 35 feet long and goes up a huge wall, across the ceiling, and back down. I’ve ordered a new cable, but there’s no way I’ll be able to fish it through without ripping up the wall, so I may just stick with the limited refresh rate.

Bummer

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Author Topic: Help getting HDR to work (Read 2964 times)