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[mcq]

Thanks Yaobing - will try soon - any thoughts on 1) please?

[greynolds]

Thanks Yaobing - will try soon - any thoughts on 1) please?

JimH sort of answered that first question...  Hit the up arrow button to go to the top row of options in Theater View and then select More.  Move over to Toggle List Style.  Each time you select Toggle List Style, you will cycle through the available options, one of which should be the one you're looking for.

[mcq]

Thanks greynolds - that's the steer I was after.

[mcq]

Just press Play button at any level in that view, fullscreen playback starts.  Then use Left/Right arrow buttons to cycle through all images in the selected folder (including subfolders).

When I get to this screen (attached) if I press OK I get the meta with the pic, then OK again (seems to be Show) I then get just the picture - so I'm trying to cut out the middle (meta) step.
If I press the Play button (>) from the same starting point, I do indeed get straight to the picture I want, but it's in Slideshow mode and then moves on through the rest of the folder - not what I want.

[mcq]

Is there a way to save all your settings, so that if I uninstall and rebuild then I can restore them - or even clone another machine in the same layout?

I've seen the 2009 forum about copying the registry key - but has anything more developed been provided since?   

[JimH]

Backup saves your library and your settings.  Restore restores them.

[mcq]

Been through File, Edit, View, Player, Tools, Help - didn't see Backup - can you tell me where to look please?

[JimH]

Please read the wiki or do a search when you have a question.  A Google search, adding JRiver, works best.

https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=jriver+backup

[mcq]

Got it - thanks to videos by Spike1000 - didn't realise you used Library function to back up System settings - so didn't look there.
Just transferred from W10 to W11 and seems good - thanks.

[JimH]

WTV recording is working now in MC31.

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/board,78.0.html

[mcq]

Excellent to see this progress - video and audio seem fine so far - though video bit rate seems different.
However can we sort the metadata side out; a stand alone wtv file should be just that, no folder or sidecars etc, just a single wtv file whose title is the program date-string.
To follow are pics (in two posts) which show WMC and JRMC31 recordings of the same show.
Things to note about MC WTV recording when viewed in File Explorer, when viewed in WMC and when editing in VRD- are -
In all cases the lack of WMC metadata within the JR file means some degree of incompatibility/data loss.
Can we get the metadata in the wtv files as per MS's spec and do away with folders and 'odd files' when wtv recording format is selected please?
My goal is to get MC and WMC reading and writing to the same folder with imperceptible difference between either when recording or playing back each others files.
Many thanks for efforts so far, very much appreciated.

[mcq]

Pics Pt 2

[JimH]

It's likely that the data is in the file but MC just isn't displaying what you expect.  You can add custom tags in MC.  The name must match exactly.

[mcq]

If the data is in the file then it's not in the right place and therefore doesn't fully conform to a wtv file.
Also that's no good for editors or File Explorer which look at the designated meta location.

Manual tagging is a no no for me - hopefully Yaobing can take a look.

[JimH]

Yes, but we don't arrange the file.  We use Windows tools to encode.  The data is probably there.

[mcq]

VideoRedo can generate a wtv file from any other format and allows the correct metadata (see WMC WTV Meta 4.png) to be added or edited in the right place in the file for WMC, WFE etc to read. I suggest the 'Tool' in question needs looking at to see why it is not putting the relevant data in the right place in the schema - or it is being wrongly tagged maybe?
Yaobing was looking at this earlier I think, so he may know the answer.

[Yaobing]

Metadata will be saved in wtv files in the next MC31 build.

[mcq]

Terrific - thanks very much

[sheppy99]

As an ex Windows Media Center user I intend switching to wtv once this version is stable. I want to use wtv as their tags should allow the files to be seamlessly moved from a local ssd to nas without any auto created sidecar files with the wrong path inside them causing problems once the files are moved. I can't record directly to nas 24/7 as I turn it off overnight and when the house is empty to save power

[greynolds]

Since the feature is now there, I may do the same.  I'm happy enough with the .ts format, but .wtv with tags stored within the files would be nice.

[JimH]

31.0.8 is available now: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,135878.msg941279.html#msg941279

It has some tag changes.

[mcq]

Excellent Yaobing - well done.

I know it is still work in progress and it will be great to see the superfluous 'folder-per-recoding' go, now that the wtv file is complete with the program metadata.
Think I also noticed that 'Broadcast Date' may be being written in the wrong field - perhaps you could look at when time allows.

In case it helps, I found these two files on VRD's website posted by Marvin Miller, the full one shows all the wtv fields that he believes are in the MS spec, the second is a slimmed down version showing those that VRD implement.

[JimH]

There are a couple of WTV changes in 31.0.9, available here:  https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?action=recent

[mcq]

Well done Yaobing in sorting the folder issue - much better.
There is still a date issue which I'll try and illustrate as follows.
I made two recordings today within 30 mins of each other of live original broadcasting - one on WMC one on MC - both on the same PC to the same folder.
The JR one has an erroneous 'Broadcast date' of 2008 which WMC thinks is the recorded date and therefore JR recordings are shown out of order when viewed in WMC Recorded TV (no picture).
But you can see the issue in the attached - you can also see that not all the fields WMC uses to display e.g. CH etc are filed in on the JR recording.
Again I know this is WiP - but thought the attached might help.
Come back if you need more.

[Yaobing]

There must be a difference in interpreting the date field.  The 2008 date must have come from the EPG.  We map EPG <date> element, or <Previously-shown date> element to MC's [Date] field.  We then map that to "WM/MediaOriginalBroadcastDateTime" attribute in the wtv file. 

On the other hand, the current broadcast date time is mapped to MC's [Date Recorded].  That date seems to be shown correctly in the file properties.

Can you check your EPG data and see what dates are there?

[mcq]

Hi Yaobing - I'll try again - Just wrote a post out - added two zips both under file size and forum bombed out - I'll recompose!
Actually they were too big whoops!

[mcq]

Hi Yaobing
I'll send the two files by other means to avoid it going wrong again.
But in summary the xmltv file contains fields called '<episode-num system="original-air-date">2008-03-01</episode-num>'
This is not the original date that this particular program is being aired, but could be the original date this program title (series) was first used as it's followed by an /episode-num field?

In the mxf file (used by WMC) the field is called  startAirdate="2008-03-01"
There is not an 'original-air-date' field in the mxf file

It's possible that WMC defaults internally to use the date of the end of recording for the Recording Date provided that there isn't an 'original-air-date' value.

P.S. As the EPG123 xml file has the extension .xmltv - could you include that value in the file selector in set-up please?

Thanks

[mcq]

One other thing Yaobing - maybe you can you follow the format of WMC's wtv file names as they are complete with date and time - and also use underscores - which may, just, matter.

WMC naming is 'BBC News_BBCNEWS_2023_05_10_16_30_50.wtv'
MC naming is 'BBC News 2023-05-10.wtv'

Whether this affects how WMC behaves I don't know.

[Yaobing]

Here is the issue:

<date>20080301</date>

That is from the xmltv file.  I always treat this date as the date the show was created (for example the date a movie was made), or when a show was initially aired.   Further more, as you mentioned, the mxf file contains originalAirdate="2008-03-01".  Both can be interpreted the same way: the show was created originally on 2008-03-01.  Literally the Microsoft tag that I found closest to this meaning is "WM/MediaOriginalBroadcastDateTime".  That is where I put that particular date.

Apparently,  MS does not use "WM/MediaOriginalBroadcastDateTime" to hold "original broadcast", but to hold "this broadcast".  They must therefore put "2008-03-01" in another tag.

You can do this for me:

Import the BBC News recorded by WMC into MC, and check the MC log file for entries like the following:

Code: [Select]

0043254: 1924: TV: JRWTVVideoInfo::Open: GetAttributeCount returned 0x0, count=19
0043255: 1924: TV: JRWTVVideoInfo::Open: Attr 0: name len: 12, type 1, data len: 6
0043255: 1924: TV: JRWTVVideoInfo::Open: Name WM/Language String value en
0043255: 1924: TV: JRWTVVideoInfo::Open: Attr 1: name len: 17, type 3, data len: 4
0043255: 1924: TV: JRWTVVideoInfo::Open: Name WM/MediaIsRepeat Boolean value 1
0043255: 1924: TV: JRWTVVideoInfo::Open: Attr 2: name len: 18, type 4, data len: 8
0043255: 1924: TV: JRWTVVideoInfo::Open: Name WM/WMRVEncodeTime QWORD value 133280424000000000
0043255: 1924: TV: JRWTVVideoInfo::Open: Attr 3: name len: 9, type 1, data len: 12
0043255: 1924: TV: JRWTVVideoInfo::Open: Name WM/Genre String value Drama
0043255: 1924: TV: JRWTVVideoInfo::Open: Attr 4: name len: 17, type 1, data len: 32
0043256: 1924: TV: JRWTVVideoInfo::Open: Name WM/WMRVProgramID String value EP00511651.0085
0043256: 1924: TV: JRWTVVideoInfo::Open: Attr 5: name len: 20, type 1, data len: 18
0043256: 1924: TV: JRWTVVideoInfo::Open: Name WM/MediaStationName String value 5-2 COZI
0043256: 1924: TV: JRWTVVideoInfo::Open: Attr 6: name len: 23, type 1, data len: 168
0043256: 1924: TV: JRWTVVideoInfo::Open: Name WM/SubTitleDescription String value The detective suspects Captain Stottlemeyer's girlfriend Linda could be a murderer.
0043256: 1924: TV: JRWTVVideoInfo::Open: Attr 7: name len: 16, type 3, data len: 4
0043256: 1924: TV: JRWTVVideoInfo::Open: Name WM/MediaIsMovie Boolean value 0

etc.


You can post what you find.  I hope to see 2008-03-01 somewhere, but it is also possible that they use a different format (other than string format), in which case it will be harder to identify.

Note 1: You need to turn on logging.  It is under Help > Logging.
Note 2: If you don't see the logging lines as shown above, you should select the file, in MC's Standard View, right-click, and choose Library Tools > Update Library (from tags). 

[mcq]

Will do - meanwhile here are two pics from JR of the News program that it recorded.

So with the xmltv file as the source and JR recording a wtv file, JR gets the date wrong too.
Well not so much wrong, but this xml field does not contain what we think it does/should.

I'll be back.

[mcq]

Ok - the issue is as you say.
I understand completely why you mapped as you have, but for some reason that field isn't what we would assume.

Two logs attached as per your Note 1) and 2) - no sign of 2008 in first log, but it is there in the second log after importing tags.

Couple of pics too to add a visual - note the imported one has a thumb from the actual program, WMC usefully adds a thumb from the opening shots automatically into the file, as opposed to channel logo which is a bit useless if you record multiple programs from the same channel.

I also note the WMC bit rate is over twice JR's for the same channel and tuner - why might that be do you think?

Then there's the import issue -
Using a common folder for recoding WMC wtvs and JR wtvs is great and the metadata is showing up helpfully - will be even better if you could use WMC's file name format please.
However whilst WMC is happy to simply count JR's wtv files as just that and show them in its Recorded TV list, JR doesn't show files it didn't record - hence having to import WMC recordings - do you think you can find a way for JR to do this on it's own?
Clearly we don't want JR trying to import its recordings - if you follow all that!
 

[Yaobing]

I will check the log files you posted.  The reason I asked for the info is the realization that MS apparently does not want <OriginalAirDate> to be mapped to "WM/MediaOriginalBroadcastDateTime>.  To me these two seem very synonymous, but they don't seem to agree with me.  So I wanted to see where they put different dates.

Another thing I would like to point out, is that most "BBC News" programs, if not all, are tagged with 2008-03-01 in the xmltv file.  That is plain wrong.  If I have to guess, this date probably was the date when BBC first produced/aired this program.  But you can not use this for every current episode.  For example, the xmltv file uses this for episode number:

<episode-num system="original-air-date">2008-03-01</episode-num>

What it means is the they use original-air-date to label an episode.  As such they label all episodes of the show "2008-03-01".  That is an EPG issue.

Regarding filename naming convention, I don't think MS's convention is better than mine.  I think JRiver's filenames are clear, and easy to read.  Too many underscores in the filename make it hard to read.  You just need to get used to the new naming convention.  Besides, it does not really matter how a file is named.  You look at a show in MC, or an audio file, or an image file, you look at its Name field, Artist, Episode number, etc. etc.  There is no need to look at the filename.

[greynolds]

Regarding filename naming convention, I don't think MS's convention is better than mine.  I think JRiver's filenames are clear, and easy to read.  Too many underscores in the filename make it hard to reason.  You just need to get used to the new naming convention.  Besides, it does not really matter how a file is named.  You look at a show in MC, or an audio file, or an image file, you look at its Name field, Artist, Episode number, etc. etc.  There is no need to look at the filename.

Additionally, I don't think WMC makes use of any info from the filename for display, indexing, etc.  So in addition to Yaobing's comments there's no usage benefit in changing the filenames.  The ability to mix and match JRiver and WMC recordings is kind of cool, but I don't think JRiver should be expected to mimic what Microsoft does 100% here.

[mcq]

I don't think MS uses Original Air Date either.

I think I said earlier that it's a fairly useless reference possibly to a series start - I have other recordings with useless dates in this field.
I'm trying to discover more from another contact.

Didn't say your file name is better or worse - only that WMC may be using it as a reference - but it shouldn't - I don't like underscores either, but the time can be useful if sorting in File explorer - but no matter.

WMC Recorded TV does have a sort option of 'Original Date Broadcast' - see pic, there seems to be a subtle change of sort order from Date Recorded - but I can work out what's going on yet.

[JimH]

Additionally, I don't think WMC makes use of any info from the filename for display, indexing, etc.  So in addition to Yaobing's comments there's no usage benefit in changing the filenames.  The ability to mix and match JRiver and WMC recordings is kind of cool, but I don't think JRiver should be expected to mimic what Microsoft does 100% here.

I agree.

[mcq]

So do I - it was just a possible diagnostic test - anyway I think we almost have the answer now about this field and associated flags.

[Yaobing]

From the last log you provided, MS put "0001-01-01T00:00:00Z" in the "WM/MediaOriginalBroadcastDateTime".  It is a place holder string which should be ignored.  I see nowhere they put the wrong date "2008-03-01" in any tags.  So I will probably not put anything in "WM/MediaOriginalBroadcastDateTime" (or put the place holder in it) for now.  But I still don't know what to do with the <date> element in xmltv.  It should be the date time when the same show was first aired (if the EPG provider does it correctly).  I will also look into whether I am interpreting the QWORD datetime correctly.  Let me know if you find anything interesting.

[mcq]

Will do - thanks for the hard work

[mcq]

Incrementally homing in - I think.

I have a program called Definitely Dusty - first broadcast in 07/2000 and repeated this month.

First pic shows the program detail page in WMC - it shows it as a Repeat, it shows this months date and the Original Air Date of 02/07/2000
Second pic shows WMC Recorded TV sorted by Date Recorded and shows this months repeat - see surrounding dates
Third pic shows WMC Recorded TV sorted by Original Date Broadcast and shows this months repeat recording listed against its first broadcast in 2000 - see surrounding dates

What I don't have is the xmltv of course because the program has gone and therefor the schedule has been updated.

Fourth pic however shows the WMC file has already been imported into JR - logging was off - so I don't have the log, but see JR screen where the Original Date Broadcast is shown in the Date field

This is beginning to suggest to me that it is the associated flag that matters here as I think it determines whether this 'original' date should be used or ignored - and probably determines whether it is labelled a Repeat.

I'll hunt further but it's a bit needle and haystack!

[Yaobing]

How about doing a Windows Explorer Properties, Details tab on this file?  Does it show 02/07/2000 as Broadcast Date?

Maybe WMC is using both "Original Air Date" and IsRepeat, to determine whether to use the date.  If the show is a re-run, use the date, otherwise use the date only if it matches the EPG datetime.  That would explain the place holder date found for BBC News show because it was not a rerun yet the date is way before the actual air time.

[mcq]

Like so?

I did wonder if you wanted me to delete the imported version and re-import it as before with logging if that would help.
If so can you steer me through how to delete the original import - or shall I import it from another location

Let me know.

[Yaobing]

Like this (i.e. select the file in the Windows Explorer, and right-click and choose Properties):



Regarding getting log entries to show up, you don't need to remove and re-import.  All you need to do is to do a "Library Tools\Update Library (from tags)"

[mcq]

Yes it is - file attached - it's the same field as in my previous pic - right hand column

JR Log 'update from tags) attached also shows

[EnglishTiger]

Yaobing - since BBC News is a 24 hour Rolling News Program where the "Main News" is usually broadcast once every hour, that could be the reason why you are seeing the same "date" for a number of "BBC News - News broadcasts" for any given day.

If I'm reading mcq's posting correctly - the file on his system is referring to the 16:30 (4:30 pm) broadcast of the "Daily News" and not to the 24 hour output from the BBC News Channel which could contain up to 24 occurances of the "Daily/Main News" component.

[mcq]

Hi  EnglishTiger - I'm not sure which 'Reply No' or attached pic you're referring to, but both recordings are from the same BBC 24 hour rolling news CH 231.

I'm increasingly of the view that the "original-air-date" in xmltv and 'startAirdate' in mxf (as used by WMC) fields mean different things according to associated flags.

I suspect it is these flags that signal to WMC as to whether to show the program as a repeat or not - see the Definitely Dusty section above

Still digging.

[Yaobing]

Yes it is - file attached - it's the same field as in my previous pic - right hand column

I kept seeing only the left side of the image.  Now I see the whole picture. 

JR Log 'update from tags) attached also shows

The image and the log file confirm that the "Original Air date" is what it should mean, i.e. the date the show was originally aired and therefore I mapped it to the right tag ("WM/MediaOriginalBroadcastDateTime").  The only issue is when such date makes no sense as it appears in the guide data.  I believe now Microsoft uses the date (and time) when it makes sense, and skips it (and uses a place holder date time) when it does not, as I mentioned in one of my previous post.  Using the re-run flag to make such judgement is the only thing I can think of.  So for the next build, I am going to do this:

If <date> in xmltv (which is "OriginalAirDate") does not match EPG date time, AND that re-run flag is FALSE, then we ignore the date time and use a place holder.  Otherwise we map it to "WM/MediaOriginalBroadcastDateTime" tag.

[mcq]

Which field in the xmltv are you using to determine the program as 're-run'?

I can see the possibly useless field <previously-shown></previously-shown> which doesn't seem to get populated.
I can also see the fields  <new /> and <live /> used on some programs where the date is old but it's a new program

[Yaobing]

Which field in the xmltv are you using to determine the program as 're-run'?

I can see the possibly useless field <previously-shown></previously-shown> which doesn't seem to get populated.
I can also see the fields  <new /> and <live /> used on some programs where the date is old but it's a new program

<previously-shown> and <new> are both supported.  These usually don't appear on the same program.

<live> is not supported in MC as we don't have a library field corresponding to it, I think.  It's purpose is different from <previously-shown> and <new>, but of course a live show definitely is a new show.  So I suppose if I have difficulty determining the re-run status I could look at this one too.

[mcq]

I think that you've cracked it - definitely think it needs that bit of logic to avoid erroneous implications of being a repeat.
Well done and thanks of course.

[mcq]

In case anyone is tearing their hair out with an intermittent audio delay when set to .wtv, this is a now known problem and Yaobing is working hard on the issue.
In the short term .ts and .jtv are still fine.