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[mattkhan]

This topic had some chatter on the avs thread recently highlighting the gap in MC again

I also noticed it came up in this review https://www.stereophile.com/content/arvus-h2-4d-multichannel-dolby-atmos-digital-processor-page-2 as something MC couldn't handle (though problems are unspecified). Atmos music seems to be on the up so seems like a gap to close out to me.

[JimH]

Atmos is Dolby and proprietary.  Bitstreaming should work if the device supports it.

[mattkhan]

Hendrik clearly says MC does not support this

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,134892.msg936617.html#msg936617

Anyway my point was just to highlight a negative comment on MC I noticed in the "press" recently. I have no interest in the feature myself.

[EnglishTiger]

Right now MC is playing conventional 2 channel 24/48Khz Flac files in 7.1.4 Surround Sound, via HDMI, on my Dolby Atmos Equiped Samsung harmon/kardon soundbar with Surround Sound Upmixing switched on in Dolby Access for Home Theater. But if I was to switch to playing the MKV created from my Beatles Abbey Road 50th Aniversary DVD and selected the right audio stream the Atmos Prosessor would cut in.

The author of that article you linked to got something slightly wrong about the Dolby Access Ap for windows, Access for Headphones is free Access for Home Theater is the one you have to pay for.

[mattkhan]

I believe the author is https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?action=profile;u=70017 so assume he can see this and could comment further

[jmone]

It's only an issue for Atmos (etc) audio streams that are packaged without a video stream (as I think these are processed by JRiver's audio engine not RO and hence are not bitstreamable as with std Audio/Video files). 

[Hendrik]

jmone is right. Audio-only files do not support bitstreaming right now.

[Hendrik]

I added quick support for this on Windows, but not sure yet if all cases of not processing audio are caught. Let us know if you try to use this and the audio breaks at any point.

[jmone]

jmone is right.

I got one right for once!

[mlknez]

I added quick support for this on Windows, but not sure yet if all cases of not processing audio are caught. Let us know if you try to use this and the audio breaks at any point.

I updated to 31.0.9 Windows 64 bit version.

I tried playing some of the Atmos music-only files that i previously posted for you with bitstreaming turned on.  I still only get multichannel lpcm in. My pre/pro doesn't see the stream as atmos.  It plays as if it was a 5.1 audio file.

[Awesome Donkey]

I updated to 31.0.9 Windows 64 bit version.

I tried playing some of the Atmos music-only files that i previously posted for you with bitstreaming turned on.  I still only get multichannel lpcm in. My pre/pro doesn't see the stream as atmos.  It plays as if it was a 5.1 audio file.

The change isn't in the changelog for 31.0.9, so it's likely going to be a build newer than it.

[jmone]

The change is in 31.0.10

[mlknez]

Yay!  It works!!  Thank you!  I tried both mka and m4a files and both worked correctly.

[mlknez]

Obviously, I am very excited that JRiver now bitstreams Atmos audio-only files.  I have a small additional request.  I ripped the Atmos tracks from my Pink Floyd The Dark Side of the Moon and the rip comes out as .thd files as they are True-HD Atmos.  If I try to directly play them from JRiver 31.0.10, they don't play.  If I rename them .mka files, they work.  Can you please make it so .thd files can also be bitstreamed as Atmos?

Thanks again for all you do!

[Hendrik]

"raw" files of advanced audio codecs are not a good format to store them in, you will have no tagging and bad seeking. You should really be ripping them to mka in the first place.

[davewave]

Could somebody provide a pointer explaining how Dolby Atmos music only files work and are created?   Can one take the Atmos sound from their BluRay and re-rip it to this format?   

Must admit I had thought Atmos was only available in a video wrapping so this is interesting.

[dtc]

Could somebody provide a pointer explaining how Dolby Atmos music only files work and are created?   Can one take the Atmos sound from their BluRay and re-rip it to this format?   

Must admit I had thought Atmos was only available in a video wrapping so this is interesting.

Here is one discussion of Atmos Music.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/what-is-dolby-atmos-music-and-how-to-get-it/

The audio goes through the same mixing process as the sound for Atmos movies (up to 34 channels) and that is delivered on Blu-Ray with Atmos TrueHD. Basically it is an Atmos BluRay with no video. Some streaming services are also starting to deliver Atmos music, with Apple Music  and Tidal having good selections.  You can rip an Atmos Blu-Ray to mkv. You need an Atmos playback system to take advantage of the multiple channels.

[mlknez]

Here is one discussion of Atmos Music.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/what-is-dolby-atmos-music-and-how-to-get-it/

The audio goes through the same mixing process as the sound for Atmos movies (up to 34 channels) and that is delivered on Blu-Ray with Atmos TrueHD. Basically it is an Atmos BluRay with no video. Some streaming services are also starting to deliver Atmos music, with Apple Music  and Tidal having good selections.  You can rip an Atmos Blu-Ray to mkv. You need an Atmos playback system to take advantage of the multiple channels.

I rip my disc to an .iso file, then pull the tracks into separate subdirectories by format..

[arcspin]

Could there perhaps be a section in Cloudplay called Atmos music for people to upload their Atmos music various artists?

[jctcom]

Hi All.

I am curious about this Atmos music thing.

Where are you getting "Atmos" Music from?  Is it coming from Movie tracks?  Are there actual "Atmos" Music Discs being released similar to "Blu-ray Audio" discs?

Thanks.

Carl.

[JimH]

Try a Google search.

[jmone]

I'm guessing most are just using MKVToolNix to remux only the audio track into MKA from their MKVs or directly from (unencrypted) BDs etc.

[Mitchco]

There are several articles/comments on acquiring/ripping/playing Atmos music files on Audiophile Style that you may want to look into...
Just type Atmos in the site's search box.

[dtc]

There are Atmos tracks on streaming services, especially Apple Music, Tidal and Amazon.

One of the problems with the discs that are being released is that some of the ones people want most are very expensive. DSOTM came out at $300 and Abbey Road is $100. They usually are included in boxed sets which contain other non-Atmos versions. At those prices the sales are going to be pretty limited.

[jctcom]

Actually I guess I have a few Atmos discs.  In fact just recently bought the new Rush Signals 40th Anniversary Super Deluxe Box set (Also over $300 But it's RUSH  What can you do!).

I already had ripped the 5.1 and hi-Res audio tracks and the full BDMV.  But hadn't thought about ripping the tracks with the ATMOS Sound intact.  Will have to look further into that then.

Carl.

[jmone]

It's easy.  Rip just the audio track, use particles to mark each segment as individual tracks, tag each one up.  https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Particles

[mlknez]

It's easy.  Rip just the audio track, use particles to mark each segment as individual tracks, tag each one up.  https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Particles

How would you do that with a Blu-Ray Pure Audio disc?

[jmone]

Also no probs - I wrote up a bit of a how to do this years ago - https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=88100.0

Kind of a shame the format never took off as it was a great source of high quality audio.  Also, from what I've seen there is no versions with Atmos etc, just "normal" LPCM / DTS-MA etc, so you can then use MC's existing "Convert" function to create lossless multichannel FLAC versions of these as well. 

[jmone]

If you are going to be doing a bit of this sort of conversion you may find Swag of Tool helpful to speed and automate the creation of Particles for each "track".  See the 2nd post of that thread.

[jmone]

...also this advice may be short-lived.  I know that Henrik is thinking about changes to the MC's inbuild "Convert" function to offer customizable options so that could be a possibility sometime in the future.

[jctcom]

Also no probs - I wrote up a bit of a how to do this years ago - https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=88100.0

Kind of a shame the format never took off as it was a great source of high quality audio.  Also, from what I've seen there is no versions with Atmos etc, just "normal" LPCM / DTS-MA etc, so you can then use MC's existing "Convert" function to create lossless multichannel FLAC versions of these as well.

I have several Blu-Ray Audio discs with Atmos Surround tracks on them.  From Rush alone I have "Signals 40th anniversary release", "Moving Pictures 40th", "A Farewell To Kings 40th". also The Pineapple Thief - Give It Back released last year.  Riverside - ID Entity was released this year as was re remastered version of Pink Floyd's - Dark Side Of The Moon.  Just to mention a few.

I think Blu-Ray Audio with Atmos is just getting started.  Not sure why you think it "Never took off".

carl

[jmone]

Hi Carl, I say that as in 2013 there was a big splash for HFPA by Universal as the "next CD replacement" and over a couple of years over 100 titles were released..... then nothing.  HFPA got pulled from my local retailers shelved.

I've not been back to check it out for years, but you are right in that there seems to be a few titles coming out (10 in 2022 / 23 so far) and I'm not sure if this list is even up to date (given I can't see some of the disc you mentioned)! https://www.discogs.com/label/1026653-High-Fidelity-Pure-Audio?sort=year&sort_order=desc - so not a whole bunch but maybe?  Also some of these newer titles seem to have Atmos extension.

[jctcom]

Hi Carl, I say that as in 2013 there was a big splash for HFPA by Universal as the "next CD replacement" and over a couple of years over 100 titles were released..... then nothing.  HFPA got pulled from my local retailers shelved.

I've not been back to check it out for years, but you are right in that there seems to be a few titles coming out (10 in 2022 / 23 so far) and I'm not sure if this list is even up to date (given I can't see some of the disc you mentioned)! https://www.discogs.com/label/1026653-High-Fidelity-Pure-Audio?sort=year&sort_order=desc - so not a whole bunch but maybe?  Also some of these newer titles seem to have Atmos extension.

All of the titles I referenced in my previous post have Atmos sound options on them.

Carl

[jmone]

Sounds good - rip away!

[jctcom]

Sounds good - rip away!

I have ripped to BDMV in order to get the full disc with Atmos and I have ripped the tracks to FLAC stereo and 24/48 or 24/96 (Depending on the disc). but I have not yet ripped the Atmos tracks by themselves. 

Carl

[jmone]

Easy to do - just drag the largest M2TS into mkvtoolnix and deselect the video track.  It will even change the file extension to mka for you.

[jctcom]

Easy to do - just drag the largest M2TS into mkvtoolnix and deselect the video track.  It will even change the file extension to mka for you.

Hehe.  I gave that a try. I was a bit disappointed when it only created a single file.  But it turns out it's because it was only a single song lol.   I guess Rush has pretty long songs.

But I did play it back and it did play the Atmos sound track. Sounded amazing!  Nice to be able to play it without having to load a BDMV.  Will have to rip the rest and then tag / name them afterwards I guess.

In the middle of ripping & Tagging my R40 Concert box set though and want to finish that first.

Carl

[jmone]

Yeah you will find that all these discs are authored differently.  I've not seen one with a single M2TS for each song like you found, but I do have ones that have grouped songs into a couple of different M2TS and some that are all in one large one.

[jctcom]

Yeah well the song ended up being "The Camera Eye" which is 11 minutes long.  Pretty typical for older Rush so not too surprised they split it up into it's own file.

I guess though that might cause a problem ripping things and maintaining Gapless playback when needed?  I don't remember if any of the songs merge into each other on this particular album. But could be an issue if they do.

Carl

[jmone]

If you want gapless, just leave it in the BD format and close your eyes for the Audio Only experience!

[mlknez]

Can we get a converter that will convert raw .thd files into a taggable and playable format such as .mka or .mp4?  Also can you enable .mka and .mp4 Atmos files on Cloudplay?

[mlknez]

mkvtoolnix will convert the .thd files to .mka, thus rendering them taggable!

[jctcom]

mkvtoolnix will convert the .thd files to .mka, thus rendering them taggable!

Are MKA files fully taggable?  In my test after checking with Mediainfo I don't see "Artist, Album Artist, Album name" and several others in there.

Carl

[mlknez]

Here is a screenshot of tagged mka files...

[jctcom]

I use JRiver to do all of my tagging.

So I will have to check if JRiver is not writing the tags to the .MKA files?

Can you check the tags with MediaInfo to see if they all show up their?

Carl.

[mlknez]

I use JRiver to do all of my tagging.

So I will have to check if JRiver is not writing the tags to the .MKA files?

Can you check the tags with MediaInfo to see if they all show up their?

Carl.

It seems that the tags are not being written to the .mka files in jriver.

JRiver folks, can you please check that?

[jctcom]

mkvtoolnix will convert the .thd files to .mka, thus rendering them taggable!

I have used MKVToolnix to convert my Rush Signals 40th to .MKA files.  But I had to add each track 1 by 1 and then create a new job for each track.

Do you know if there is a way to drop multiple songs onto MKVToolnix input and them have them output individual .MKA files without having to create a batch file by file?

Also I thought I read it here somewhere but I can't find it now.  I used DVD Audio Extractor to create the .thd files from the original disc.  Took about an hour but it gave me the RAW .thd files to work with. Can't believe I have had that program for about 10 years and only now found out it could do that lol.  (I am sure it was added sometime in the meantime but I have no idea when).

Carl

[TheShoe]

Check out Music Media Helper - it'll rip the Atmos track into individual files (MKA, M4A, etc) from an MKV.  Has tagging support as well.  Still a bit buggy in some areas (mostly UI) but it works well.

https://www.quadraphonicquad.com/forums/threads/music-media-helper-tools-for-multichannel-audio-music-videos.22693/

[jctcom]

with various tips from here and other places I have found a method that seems to work quite well.  I use DVD-Audio extractor which I have had for many years.

for an actual disc I use the "Direct Stream Demux" option.  This gives me the tracks with ".thd" extension.  Then I just change the file extension to ".mka" and that seems to work just fine.

If I have only a BMDV Folder as I do for some.  I use "Daemon Tools Ultra" which I have also had for years and create a custom .ISO file.  Then Mount the .ISO file and use the DVD-Audio Extractor as described above.

Both of these programs I purchased "Lifetime" licenses for years ago.  It's nice to see apps with "Lifetime" long term licenses that still get updated regularly.

I would still like to see tags work for the .MKA files.  I am not sure if it is a limitation of JRiver or the .MKA file type.  But tags are not written to the files.  They do not even show basic info like "Track Length" for some reason?

Carl

[TheShoe]

you can use MKVToolsNix to add a Tag file (XML format if I recall) - the MKA container supports it.  What JRiver would do with those tags I am not sure.

I also have DVDAE - same as you, used it for years for a lot of MLP authored discs.  Changing the .thd extension to .mka I don't think really produces an MKA file.  You will know I think it you try to open it in mkvtoolsnix.

In any case, the gaps in playback make this not a great solution.  Too much of my music has tracks that flow one into another.

BTW - just saw Porcupine Tree in Manchester - another fine show!  Although was odd as the bassist was sick and so that part was pre-recorded.  Must have made timing by the other members pretty challenging live