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[dorianm]

No - Just like that Apple Product you are using MC with there is no guarantee that any Hardware, or Software, is capable of satisfying every Individuals Wants/Needs/Requirements

So noice and being unable to play music on a music player is an "individual need"?

[dorianm]

Again, screenshots of all your audio settings under MC's Options > Audio and screenshots of the audio path during playback would likely help with figuring this out. A screenshot of DSP Studio > Output Format may help too. And you are connecting the DAC to the Mac via USB and not S/PDIF, right? Because DSD bitstreaming is not going to work via S/PDIF. And I wouldn't recommend blindly changing settings and whatnot trying to fix this, because it could mess with other things.

Though one setting you might try toggling the integer mode option under MC's Options > Audio > Device settings and see if that makes a difference.

Generally for DSD playback on macOS via bitstreaming, you also need to 1) make sure system volume (and internal volume in MC) is set to 100% or else you may just get noise and 2) you need to open the Audio MIDI Setup app in macOS and make sure it's set to the max sample rate available for your DAC.

[dorianm]

Again, screenshots of all your audio settings under MC's Options > Audio and screenshots of the audio path during playback would likely help with figuring this out. A screenshot of DSP Studio > Output Format may help too. And you are connecting the DAC to the Mac via USB and not S/PDIF, right? Because DSD bitstreaming is not going to work via S/PDIF. And I wouldn't recommend blindly changing settings and whatnot trying to fix this, because it could mess with other things.

Though one setting you might try toggling the integer mode option under MC's Options > Audio > Device settings and see if that makes a difference.

Generally for DSD playback on macOS via bitstreaming, you also need to 1) make sure system volume (and internal volume in MC) is set to 100% or else you may just get noise and 2) you need to open the Audio MIDI Setup app in macOS and make sure it's set to the max sample rate available for your DAC.

[dorianm]

Again, screenshots of all your audio settings under MC's Options > Audio and screenshots of the audio path during playback would likely help with figuring this out. A screenshot of DSP Studio > Output Format may help too. And you are connecting the DAC to the Mac via USB and not S/PDIF, right? Because DSD bitstreaming is not going to work via S/PDIF. And I wouldn't recommend blindly changing settings and whatnot trying to fix this, because it could mess with other things.

Though one setting you might try toggling the integer mode option under MC's Options > Audio > Device settings and see if that makes a difference.

Generally for DSD playback on macOS via bitstreaming, you also need to 1) make sure system volume (and internal volume in MC) is set to 100% or else you may just get noise and 2) you need to open the Audio MIDI Setup app in macOS and make sure it's set to the max sample rate available for your DAC.

Right now I just want it to play without noise. I'm not using the bit streaming feature, I'm setting everything to default or "recommended" as the app says in the settings.

Since the default is changing dsd to pcm, and since I use the EQ, it should play without issues, just as Colibri does.

I'll check the MIDI set up, but since Colibri is playing without issues, I doubt that will be it. But I will try anyways.

Thanks

[Awesome Donkey]

Okay, now we're getting somewhere. First I have to ask, why in DSP Studio > Output Format > Sample rate do you have it set to resample everything below 44.1 kHz and 176.4 kHz and above to 96 kHz? The DAC you have can output up to 768 kHz so that's why I'm asking, it seems like a bit of a waste to be resampling here, not to mention resampling is a lossy conversion. As a test, you might set all of these to None (and uncheck Output Format in the main DSD Studio list on the left too, just in case).

Second, you'll need to enable exclusive mode under Device settings by checking the Open device with exclusive access option, as DSD bitstreaming otherwise won't work.

Third you can set Bitstreaming from None to Custom and in the Bitstreaming Formats window check the DSD box and set the drop down menu to Up to DSD256 (4x).

Audio Path here is interesting though. Strangely (and this is the confusing part for me) is the Downsample 8X for DSD to PCM conversion message. What's unclear to me is what does means, e.g. if it means you're converting DSD512 (aka 8x DSD) to PCM even though the input is a DSD64 track. Usually in that case it'd would make me think Output Encoding is set to DSDx8 but in the DSP Studio screenshot the option is set to None, so that's clearly not the case. Hopefully one of the devs can explain the Downsample 8X for DSD to PCM conversion message here, as I've never seen that one. Anyways beyond that part, in addition it's resampling from 358.8 kHz to 96 kHz, because like first mentioned DSP Studio > Output Format > Sample rate is set to convert to 358.8 kHz to 96 kHz.


Here's a list of recommendations in simple terms to try to get DSD bitstreaming without any conversions working:

1) Make sure both macOS' system volume and MC's internal volume is set to 100%. Looks like MC's internal volume is already set to 100%, can't tell system volume in the screenshots.

2) Open up the Audio MIDI Setup app in macOS, and set it to use the highest sample rate your DAC supports, which would be 768 kHz.

3) Enable exclusive mode in the Device settings by checking the Open device with exclusive access option, this is required for DSD bitstreaming.

4) Either uncheck Output Format in the DSP Studio list to disable it or go into DSP Studio > Output Format and set all Sample rates that are set to 96 kHz to None.

5) Enable DSD bitstreaming, by changing the Bitstreaming option to Custom then in the pop up window check DSD and set it to Up to DSD256 (4x).

6) This step is very important to pay attention to: Try playing back a DSD64 track. You won't be able to playback DSD512 without conversion, but it can and should be able to bitstream and playback DSD64 tracks without issue.

That should hopefully do it. During playback another screenshot of the Audio Path would be very helpful here to verify playback. Or if any errors occur, screenshots of those may help too.

Good luck!

[AGAWA]

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,135958.msg945255.html#msg945255

really no issues at all?

[dorianm]

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,135958.msg945255.html#msg945255

really no issues at all?

On the MacBookPro the only issue is that the login screen doesn't support the full animation of the emoji, so the animation is white instead of showing the real emoji. Only the eyes are visible... lol.

On the MacPro, I purchased a USB PCIe card ($32) and a BT/Wifi Card ($50). Both plug and play, which enabled USB 1 and 3, plus Wifi and BT 4.0. I didn't actually needed them, because USB 1 would work with a USB 3.0 Hub. But I wanted BT, and that required the PCIe BT/WF card. I also needed to purchase a used Nvidia Force GTX 680 ($150) which has Metal 2 support.  So a total of $232.

I also updated RAM with a new set of 32G (4x8g) sticks ($100). Now running with 44G of RAM. So for me it was $332 to update the machine.

I think it's worth it, as the closest machine would be the MacPro Cylinder, which run around $800.


But now it's running pretty good with full Metal support. Running two monitors and the LG 75" screen.

[dorianm]

Okay, now we're getting somewhere. First I have to ask, why in DSP Studio > Output Format > Sample rate do you have it set to resample everything below 44.1 kHz and 176.4 kHz and above to 96 kHz? The DAC you have can output up to 768 kHz so that's why I'm asking, it seems like a bit of a waste to be resampling here, not to mention resampling is a lossy conversion. As a test, you might set all of these to None (and uncheck Output Format in the main DSD Studio list on the left too, just in case).

...

Awesome post.

But I just noticed that on the MIDI setup, the SMSL shows only 96khz. I just contacted them to see why that is.

[dorianm]

Okay, now we're getting somewhere. First I have to ask, why in DSP Studio > Output Format > Sample rate do you have it set to resample everything below 44.1 kHz and 176.4 kHz and above to 96 kHz? The DAC you have can output up to 768 kHz so that's why I'm asking, it seems like a bit of a waste to be resampling here, not to mention resampling is a lossy conversion. As a test, you might set all of these to None (and uncheck Output Format in the main DSD Studio list on the left too, just in case).

Second, you'll need to enable exclusive mode under Device settings by checking the Open device with exclusive access option, as DSD bitstreaming otherwise won't work.

Third you can set Bitstreaming from None to Custom and in the Bitstreaming Formats window check the DSD box and set the drop down menu to Up to DSD256 (4x).

Audio Path here is interesting though. Strangely (and this is the confusing part for me) is the Downsample 8X for DSD to PCM conversion message. What's unclear to me is what does means, e.g. if it means you're converting DSD512 (aka 8x DSD) to PCM even though the input is a DSD64 track. Usually in that case it'd would make me think Output Encoding is set to DSDx8 but in the DSP Studio screenshot the option is set to None, so that's clearly not the case. Hopefully one of the devs can explain the Downsample 8X for DSD to PCM conversion message here, as I've never seen that one. Anyways beyond that part, in addition it's resampling from 358.8 kHz to 96 kHz, because like first mentioned DSP Studio > Output Format > Sample rate is set to convert to 358.8 kHz to 96 kHz.


Here's a list of recommendations in simple terms to try to get DSD bitstreaming without any conversions working:

1) Make sure both macOS' system volume and MC's internal volume is set to 100%. Looks like MC's internal volume is already set to 100%, can't tell system volume in the screenshots.

2) Open up the Audio MIDI Setup app in macOS, and set it to use the highest sample rate your DAC supports, which would be 768 kHz.

3) Enable exclusive mode in the Device settings by checking the Open device with exclusive access option, this is required for DSD bitstreaming.

4) Either uncheck Output Format in the DSP Studio list to disable it or go into DSP Studio > Output Format and set all Sample rates that are set to 96 kHz to None.

5) Enable DSD bitstreaming, by changing the Bitstreaming option to Custom then in the pop up window check DSD and set it to Up to DSD256 (4x).

6) This step is very important to pay attention to: Try playing back a DSD64 track. You won't be able to playback DSD512 without conversion, but it can and should be able to bitstream and playback DSD64 tracks without issue.

That should hopefully do it. During playback another screenshot of the Audio Path would be very helpful here to verify playback. Or if any errors occur, screenshots of those may help too.

Good luck!

Is there a way to turn off the popups that show while hovering over a file? Or at least change when they show?

[Awesome Donkey]

But I just noticed that on the MIDI setup, the SMSL shows only 96khz. I just contacted them to see why that is.

Okay, that's really strange. Yeah, hopefully SMSL has the answer on that one.

Is there a way to turn off the popups that show while hovering over a file? Or at least change when they show?

Tooltips? MC's Options > Tree & View > Show tooltips option has different options including turning them off.

[dorianm]

Okay, that's really strange. Yeah, hopefully SMSL has the answer on that one.

Tooltips? MC's Options > Tree & View > Show tooltips option has different options including turning them off.

Found it. Thanks.

So on my MacBook, the EQ shows perfectly. So the issue is with having multiple monitors.

One screenshot is the laptop, the other the LGTV, on the MacPro. And it shows the same on any of the monitors of the MacPro.

[dorianm]

Okay, that's really strange. Yeah, hopefully SMSL has the answer on that one.

Tooltips? MC's Options > Tree & View > Show tooltips option has different options including turning them off.

Another issue is the amount of CPU it takes. Apple's Music and Colibri use up about 15%, while MC runs between 40-100+%.

[JimH]

Another issue is the amount of CPU it takes. Apple's Music and Colibri use up about 15%, while MC runs between 40-100+%.

Whatever you're doing with the other program, it's probably not the same so comparisons won't help.

[dorianm]

Whatever you're doing with the other program, it's probably not the same so comparisons won't help.

Well they are all 3 the same thing, music programs. Apple's Music, is well, a music player, and so is Colibri. Not sure what MC is doing that needs 100+ of the CPU.

It does it on my tower and on the laptop.

[Awesome Donkey]

If it's during playback, check the Audio Path as there's probably resampling/converting happening. That can be system resource demanding, depending.

MC works a bit differently than apps like Apple Music, so it's an apples to oranges comparison. They all may be similar that they're music players, under the hood that's a different story.

[blgentry]

Audio Path here is interesting though. Strangely (and this is the confusing part for me) is the Downsample 8X for DSD to PCM conversion message.

I believe this means that the DSD rate of 2.822 GHz is being divided by 8 to get to 352.8 MHz.  "Downsample 8X".

5) Enable DSD bitstreaming, by changing the Bitstreaming option to Custom then in the pop up window check DSD and set it to Up to DSD256 (4x).

I don't think we want to do that for this customer.  He uses EQ for everything.  Which means that MC would have to do DSD to PCM, then do EQ, and then do output format back to DSD.  Or maybe his EQ would be bypassed?  Either way, he's said several times that EQ is "always on" for him so bitstreaming DSD doesn't make sense for him.  Particularly with machines that are more than 10 years old.

Brian.

[Awesome Donkey]

I believe this means that the DSD rate of 2.822 GHz is being divided by 8 to get to 352.8 MHz.  "Downsample 8X".

Ahh, okay, makes sense. I've never encountered that one, as I don't convert DSD to PCM. It's a bit iffy terminology IMO as it can be easily confused with 8xDSD, but will make a note of that for the future, thanks.

I don't think we want to do that for this customer.  He uses EQ for everything.  Which means that MC would have to do DSD to PCM, then do EQ, and then do output format back to DSD.  Or maybe his EQ would be bypassed?  Either way, he's said several times that EQ is "always on" for him so bitstreaming DSD doesn't make sense for him.  Particularly with machines that are more than 10 years old.

Oh, you're right, if EQ is required then bitstreaming anything in general is a no-go, as bitstreaming bypasses all DSP. In which case there'd be no choice but to either convert DSD to PCM and play that back or use DSP Studio > Output Format > Output Encoding to 1xDSD, 2xDSD or 4xDSD and convert everything to DSD. Either way it's going to be a resource intensive on-the-fly conversion, especially on an older Mac so there's probably going to be glitches and whatnot during playback. I assume since MC is using 40 to 100% usage it might be an older dual core or quad core Mac or something like that?

What model and year Mac is it? You might try running the running the benchmark (Help menu > Benchmark) and posting the results here.

Things to note if you want to not bitstream DSD and using things like EQ...

- To have EQ with DSD, you have to convert it to PCM (then from there you can either play it back as PCM or convert that back to DSD, so two conversions for the latter) and it's going to be very resource intensive.

- DSD to PCM conversions are always lossy conversions. As are PCM to DSD conversions and DSD to DSD conversions, because they always go through PCM in the middle so it's DSD > PCM > DSD. If bit-perfect audio output is a concern (which I'm guessing it's not, because having EQ and things like volume leveling/peak level normalization makes the output not bit-perfect anymore due to modification).

- If it's a pretty old Mac, it's likely not going to be able to handle the on-the-fly conversion regardless if it's DSD to PCM or DSD to DSD (or PCM to DSD) and you're likely going to have issues with playback like buffering.

You might find it easier to just avoid DSD completely honestly (you're not really missing anything, IMO, as I can't hear any differences between PCM and DSD), if it can't handle any of the on-the-fly conversions.

[dorianm]

I believe this means that the DSD rate of 2.822 GHz is being divided by 8 to get to 352.8 MHz.  "Downsample 8X".


I don't think we want to do that for this customer.  He uses EQ for everything.  Which means that MC would have to do DSD to PCM, then do EQ, and then do output format back to DSD.  Or maybe his EQ would be bypassed?  Either way, he's said several times that EQ is "always on" for him so bitstreaming DSD doesn't make sense for him.  Particularly with machines that are more than 10 years old.

Brian.

Interesting.

Can I just ask what the age of the machine does to the audio? It's the latest OS, and there are 8 cores. I'm just curious.

Thanks

[Awesome Donkey]

Age determines performance, regardless of the number of cores a machine has. The newer the CPU is in the machine, the better the single-threaded and multi-threaded performance is versus previous generations of hardware due to generational IPC improvements (and other things like new fabrication processes, instruction sets supported, etc.). Number of cores with older CPUs don't really matter in my opinion, max core clock and single-threaded performance would matter the most generally. Conversions in Media Center, especially anything to do with DSD, are some of the most resource intensive tasks Media Center does. And if the CPU is old in the machine, it's going to not perform as well when doing that and you'll have issues like buffering during playback because the machine simply can't handle it due to the CPU bottleneck. Things like RAM or GPU won't matter here either, it's the CPU that does matter.

Like I said, the benchmark in MC would give a better idea what the machine's performance is. Also what CPU does the Mac have and how old is the Mac? It'd be pretty easy to do a comparison against newer CPUs like Intel, AMD or even Apple Silicon.

[JimH]

Age determines performance,

No comment.

[dorianm]

Age determines performance, regardless of the number of cores a machine has. The newer the CPU is in the machine, the better the single-threaded and multi-threaded performance is versus previous generations of hardware due to generational IPC improvements (and other things like new fabrication processes, instruction sets supported, etc.). Number of cores with older CPUs don't really matter in my opinion, max core clock and single-threaded performance would matter the most generally. Conversions in Media Center, especially anything to do with DSD, are some of the most resource intensive tasks Media Center does. And if the CPU is old in the machine, it's going to not perform as well when doing that and you'll have issues like buffering during playback because the machine simply can't handle it due to the CPU bottleneck. Things like RAM or GPU won't matter here either, it's the CPU that does matter.

Like I said, the benchmark in MC would give a better idea what the machine's performance is. Also what CPU does the Mac have and how old is the Mac? It'd be pretty easy to do a comparison against newer CPUs like Intel, AMD or even Apple Silicon.

I'll do the comparison in a few mins.  It has 2 quad core Intel Xeon E5462 processors.

I'm really a bit confused on this because the other app, Colibri, plays all the same songs with 15%CPU, and as was previously mentioned, Colibri MUST be doing the same conversions due to the nature of the Mac OS/Harware limitations.

[JimH]

Colibri MUST be doing the same conversions

Doubtful.  We don't know what it's starting with or converting to.

[dorianm]

Doubtful.  We don't know what it's starting with or converting to.

It's playing the same DSD files thru the same computer, and the same DAC.

There are only a couple of choice the app can do, play DSD directly, which can't do for the same reasons MC can't do, or convert to PCM or DoP, right?

So it's doing the exact same thing as MC, but with no buffering issues, stuttering issues, or CPU issues, and I have to tell you, it sounds better than MC.

How do I run the Benchmark? NEVER Mind, I found it. I'll run it now.

[dorianm]

It's playing the same DSD files thru the same computer, and the same DAC.

There are only a couple of choice the app can do, play DSD directly, which can't do for the same reasons MC can't do, or convert to PCM or DoP, right?

So it's doing the exact same thing as MC, but with no buffering issues, stuttering issues, or CPU issues, and I have to tell you, it sounds better than MC.

How do I run the Benchmark? NEVER Mind, I found it. I'll run it now.

=== Running Benchmarks (please do not interrupt) ===

Running 'Math' benchmark...
    Single-threaded integer math... 4.070 seconds
    Single-threaded floating point math... 2.846 seconds
    Multi-threaded integer math... 1.340 seconds
    Multi-threaded mixed math... 0.986 seconds
Score: 2056

Running 'Image' benchmark...
    Image creation / destruction... 3.715 seconds
    Flood filling... 2.102 seconds
    Direct copying... 2.092 seconds
    Small renders... 1.781 seconds
    Bilinear rendering... 1.178 seconds
    Bicubic rendering... 2.900 seconds
Score: 1598

Running 'Database' benchmark...
    Create database... 0.340 seconds
    Populate database... 2.292 seconds
    Save database... 0.303 seconds
    Reload database... 0.140 seconds
    Search database... 3.428 seconds
    Sort database... 1.620 seconds
    Group database... 1.681 seconds
Score: 2193

JRMark (version 31.0.29 64 bit): 1949

[Awesome Donkey]

The Xeon E5462 is 15 years old now (and was discontinued 13 years ago) and it likely can't handle the DSD conversions in Media Center on the fly. I wouldn't be surprised if the lowest end modern Core-i3s easily outperform that Xeon CPU now.

How are you running the latest macOS on such an old Mac? It's long been dropped from support by Apple. I'm guessing one of the installer/updater hacks? Or something like using Clover/OpenCore to boot it which basically makes it into a sudo-Hackintosh (or Hack-A-Mac)? Either way it's not going to be a good experience these days, especially DSD conversions.

[Awesome Donkey]

=== Running Benchmarks (please do not interrupt) ===

Running 'Math' benchmark...
    Single-threaded integer math... 4.070 seconds
    Single-threaded floating point math... 2.846 seconds
    Multi-threaded integer math... 1.340 seconds
    Multi-threaded mixed math... 0.986 seconds
Score: 2056

Running 'Image' benchmark...
    Image creation / destruction... 3.715 seconds
    Flood filling... 2.102 seconds
    Direct copying... 2.092 seconds
    Small renders... 1.781 seconds
    Bilinear rendering... 1.178 seconds
    Bicubic rendering... 2.900 seconds
Score: 1598

Running 'Database' benchmark...
    Create database... 0.340 seconds
    Populate database... 2.292 seconds
    Save database... 0.303 seconds
    Reload database... 0.140 seconds
    Search database... 3.428 seconds
    Sort database... 1.620 seconds
    Group database... 1.681 seconds
Score: 2193

JRMark (version 31.0.29 64 bit): 1949

As expected, not really that great these days. For reference the Orange Pi 5B ARM-based SoC I run 24/7 has a score nearly double that.

Basically it can't handle Media Center's DSD conversions. I doubt PCM or DSD to DSD64 conversions would play correctly and would likely buffer too.

[dorianm]

As expected, not really that great these days. For reference the Orange Pi 5B ARM-based SoC I run 24/7 has a score nearly double that.

Basically it can't handle Media Center's DSD conversions. I doubt PCM or DSD to DSD64 conversions would play correctly and would likely buffer too.

Ok, and so how is Colibri playing the exact same media, the same DSD files?

What options does Colibri have to play the exact same files?

[Awesome Donkey]

You'd have to ask Colibri, I've never heard of it or used it so I can't comment on what it's doing. My guess would be a conversion, but to what or how it does it I couldn't tell you.

Again, it's an apples to oranges comparison.

[dorianm]

You'd have to ask Colibri, I've never heard of it or used it so I can't comment on what it's doing. My guess would be a conversion, but to what or how it does it I couldn't tell you.

Again, it's an apples to oranges comparison.

I've spoken to the dev. at Colibri, he uses the Bass Library.  The only difference between the two apps, is that MC has a GUI, but they both have to handle the same files, and Bass seems to handle them extremely efficiently.

[JimH]

2,000 is a fairly low score.  Most recent machines are above 4,000 and some above 8,000.

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,54396.350.html

[dorianm]

and I'm sure there are super computers that are into the 1,000,000,000,000. Why would I need anything above 1,000 to play a song? DSD, DSF, or any other type?

Again, if Colibri can do it, why can't MC?

Computers with that much power are built for heavy development or work. Not for playing a song.

I just got a Trial with AudirvanaOrigin_2.3.4 and the CPU is at 4%!  No issues with playback on any track. DSD512? No problem.

I have no idea what MC does, but it might have something to do with other apps running while playing. Audirvana goes up to more than 100% if another app is in the foreground.

[Awesome Donkey]

In that screenshot Audirvana is converting the DSD512 track to 88.2 kHz PCM.

Media Center has its own implementations for things like encoding and resampling, so it doesn't use libraries like BASS. That said, Media Center does include an option to use the SoX resampler instead, which you can try enabling in Media Center (MC's Options > Audio > check Use SoX for resampling) and see if that makes any difference but don't be surprised if it doesn't make any changes to the resource usage for the on-the-fly conversions.

[blgentry]

I don't have any DSD higher than "regular" (DSD 64).  I just played a song and watched Activity Monitor for a little while.  MC takes between 7 and 43% of one CPU decoding DSD 64 into PCM on my system (M1 Mac mini).  I tried with Sox and SSRC.  Both took the same amount of CPU.

I've been collecting music for more than 30 years.  My digital collection comes mostly from my physical collection of CDs.  There are a few exceptions here and there.  I only have a couple of DSD albums.  If I lost all of the DSD it wouldn't bother me. 

Our new customer is frustrated because he's trying to play music that seems like it should not be a problem, but with MC, on his system, it's not all that easy.  MC's handling of DSD isn't exactly easy to comprehend.  I have tried to help a little and AD has tried also.

To "Dorianm":  I feel your frustration.  Perhaps you should decide how important DSD playback is to you in terms of your entire collection.  Is this a must have feature?  DSD has a comparatively tiny number of titles.  You have said that you like to use EQ on everything, which means you will never hear DSD as DSD.  That's a fair thing to want (EQ).  But do you really want or need DSD at that point?  There are many wonderful titles available in more conventional formats.

MC offers some features that no other player does.  Most of these features relate to managing your media collection.  The Views system in MC is uniquely powerful.  You can really do a lot to visualize and organize your collection the way you want to see it presented.

All of that said, given your experience with your older than average Macs, it's possible that MC just isn't a good fit for you.  I hope you stay and enjoy MC.  Listening to music, collecting it, learning about it.. all of these things are supposed to be enjoyable.

Either way you go, I wish you luck with your music collection.

Brian.

[dorianm]

I don't have any DSD higher than "regular" (DSD 64).  I just played a song and watched Activity Monitor for a little while.  MC takes between 7 and 43% of one CPU decoding DSD 64 into PCM on my system (M1 Mac mini).  I tried with Sox and SSRC.  Both took the same amount of CPU.

I've been collecting music for more than 30 years.  My digital collection comes mostly from my physical collection of CDs.  There are a few exceptions here and there.  I only have a couple of DSD albums.  If I lost all of the DSD it wouldn't bother me. 

Our new customer is frustrated because he's trying to play music that seems like it should not be a problem, but with MC, on his system, it's not all that easy.  MC's handling of DSD isn't exactly easy to comprehend.  I have tried to help a little and AD has tried also.

To "Dorianm":  I feel your frustration.  Perhaps you should decide how important DSD playback is to you in terms of your entire collection.  Is this a must have feature?  DSD has a comparatively tiny number of titles.  You have said that you like to use EQ on everything, which means you will never hear DSD as DSD.  That's a fair thing to want (EQ).  But do you really want or need DSD at that point?  There are many wonderful titles available in more conventional formats.

MC offers some features that no other player does.  Most of these features relate to managing your media collection.  The Views system in MC is uniquely powerful.  You can really do a lot to visualize and organize your collection the way you want to see it presented.

All of that said, given your experience with your older than average Macs, it's possible that MC just isn't a good fit for you.  I hope you stay and enjoy MC.  Listening to music, collecting it, learning about it.. all of these things are supposed to be enjoyable.

Either way you go, I wish you luck with your music collection.

Brian.

You guys won't believe it, but I just found out why MC was taking up all the CPU. BAD RAM. I had just purchased 32Gigs and the fans were often going up way past what they used to. I ordered a new set from a different vendor and the CPU is non existen. I barely notice it and the fans are so quiet I had to get close to the machine to hear them.

So there it is, RAM! Unreal

[dorianm]

I don't have any DSD higher than "regular" (DSD 64).  I just played a song and watched Activity Monitor for a little while.  MC takes between 7 and 43% of one CPU decoding DSD 64 into PCM on my system (M1 Mac mini).  I tried with Sox and SSRC.  Both took the same amount of CPU.

I've been collecting music for more than 30 years.  My digital collection comes mostly from my physical collection of CDs.  There are a few exceptions here and there.  I only have a couple of DSD albums.  If I lost all of the DSD it wouldn't bother me. 

Our new customer is frustrated because he's trying to play music that seems like it should not be a problem, but with MC, on his system, it's not all that easy.  MC's handling of DSD isn't exactly easy to comprehend.  I have tried to help a little and AD has tried also.

To "Dorianm":  I feel your frustration.  Perhaps you should decide how important DSD playback is to you in terms of your entire collection.  Is this a must have feature?  DSD has a comparatively tiny number of titles.  You have said that you like to use EQ on everything, which means you will never hear DSD as DSD.  That's a fair thing to want (EQ).  But do you really want or need DSD at that point?  There are many wonderful titles available in more conventional formats.

MC offers some features that no other player does.  Most of these features relate to managing your media collection.  The Views system in MC is uniquely powerful.  You can really do a lot to visualize and organize your collection the way you want to see it presented.

All of that said, given your experience with your older than average Macs, it's possible that MC just isn't a good fit for you.  I hope you stay and enjoy MC.  Listening to music, collecting it, learning about it.. all of these things are supposed to be enjoyable.

Either way you go, I wish you luck with your music collection.

Brian.

Yes, I like the way that MC is able to zoom to past 200% on the GUI, it makes it very convenient on a big screen where everyone can read the titles. Now with the low CPU loads, it's a no brainer, I'm staying with MC as my main music app.  As for the EQ, I'm at the point that I like clarity more than anything, BUT, there are definitely some albums that where mixed down with either too little bass or not enough highs, like Toys in the Attic by Aerosmith, where I would most likely need an EQ.

But I've been really testing songs without the EQ and just trying the aif vs the dsd and there is definitely a difference.  The aif sounds thin. Sometimes the symbals are almost distorted, like cartoonish. While the dsd, or flac 192s sound natural, even without EQ.

So the EQ is something that for the first time, I'm thinking over twice.

I have over 300 CDs, but I am purchasing my favorite ones from either hdTracks or NativeDSD.

The DAC I have is temporary, and I'll probably put it in one of the rooms after I purchase one on par with the new EVERSOLO and a streamer. But that will be in about a year and it will be in Colombia, where I hope to build a retirement home.

Then the walls will shake... lol

[dorianm]

I don't have any DSD higher than "regular" (DSD 64).  I just played a song and watched Activity Monitor for a little while.  MC takes between 7 and 43% of one CPU decoding DSD 64 into PCM on my system (M1 Mac mini).  I tried with Sox and SSRC.  Both took the same amount of CPU.

I've been collecting music for more than 30 years.  My digital collection comes mostly from my physical collection of CDs.  There are a few exceptions here and there.  I only have a couple of DSD albums.  If I lost all of the DSD it wouldn't bother me. 

Our new customer is frustrated because he's trying to play music that seems like it should not be a problem, but with MC, on his system, it's not all that easy.  MC's handling of DSD isn't exactly easy to comprehend.  I have tried to help a little and AD has tried also.

To "Dorianm":  I feel your frustration.  Perhaps you should decide how important DSD playback is to you in terms of your entire collection.  Is this a must have feature?  DSD has a comparatively tiny number of titles.  You have said that you like to use EQ on everything, which means you will never hear DSD as DSD.  That's a fair thing to want (EQ).  But do you really want or need DSD at that point?  There are many wonderful titles available in more conventional formats.

MC offers some features that no other player does.  Most of these features relate to managing your media collection.  The Views system in MC is uniquely powerful.  You can really do a lot to visualize and organize your collection the way you want to see it presented.

All of that said, given your experience with your older than average Macs, it's possible that MC just isn't a good fit for you.  I hope you stay and enjoy MC.  Listening to music, collecting it, learning about it.. all of these things are supposed to be enjoyable.

Either way you go, I wish you luck with your music collection.

Brian.

and to all who jumped on this conversation and helped me out, THANK YOU!

[AGAWA]

don't give  up. I use 2014 Mac Mini 8 GB Monterey to play ISO SACD's in Multichannel with no problems at all.

[dorianm]

don't give  up. I use 2014 Mac Mini 8 GB Monterey to play ISO SACD's in Multichannel with no problems at all.

I'll most likely load linux next year on this one and a MacPro Cylinder that I want to get and use for the entertainment room.

I have to get a new laptop no matter what, because my current MacBook can't load the storyboard on the Xcode any longer. That's one thing I hate about Apple. Making machines obsolete for no reason. The machine can easily run Xcode, but they change something in the OS to force us to get new machines before it's due.

[blgentry]

The DAC I have is temporary, and I'll probably put it in one of the rooms after I purchase one on par with the new EVERSOLO and a streamer.

I would advise against getting a streamer.  Network based audio is more complex; particularly with DSD.  Stick with a normal USB DAC and things will be easier.

Brian.

[dorianm]

I would advise against getting a streamer.  Network based audio is more complex; particularly with DSD.  Stick with a normal USB DAC and things will be easier.

Brian.

But then I have to run linux or windows to get the full DSD512, right?

[dorianm]

In that screenshot Audirvana is converting the DSD512 track to 88.2 kHz PCM.

Media Center has its own implementations for things like encoding and resampling, so it doesn't use libraries like BASS. That said, Media Center does include an option to use the SoX resampler instead, which you can try enabling in Media Center (MC's Options > Audio > check Use SoX for resampling) and see if that makes any difference but don't be surprised if it doesn't make any changes to the resource usage for the on-the-fly conversions.

Any possibility of a cell app as Audirvana has? It makes a huge difference in usability.

[EnglishTiger]

I'll most likely load linux next year on this one and a MacPro Cylinder that I want to get and use for the entertainment room.

You may want to reconsider purchasing a MacPro Cylinder - since they use the same obsolete generation of Xeon processor as your current PC and can't be updated to use a Newer Operating System.

[dorianm]

You may want to reconsider purchasing a MacPro Cylinder - since they use the same obsolete generation of Xeon processor as your current PC and can't be updated to use a Newer Operating System.

But it can run Linux and/or Windows and therefore process DSD512, right?

[JimH]

You could read about remote on our Wiki.

[EnglishTiger]

Only a person who has owned a MacPro Cylinder would be able to answer your questions, but it wouldn't surprise me if some of your problems with DSD512 are being caused by the processor. Which unfortunately could result in you encountering the self-same problems/restrictions regardless of the OS being used.

Personally I'd purchase M1 or M2 Mac Mini, safe in the knowledge that neither of those 2 are likely to be declared "Obsolete" in the foreseeable future.

[Awesome Donkey]

The advantage to using Windows is, it'd allow the DAC's ASIO driver to be used and native DSD512 support to work, so no more need or conversions.

It may or may not work in Linux, it all depends if the Linux kernel has support for your DAC or not. Windows in this case would be the 'sure bet', so to speak.

Any possibility of a cell app as Audirvana has? It makes a huge difference in usability.

Like Jim said, the remote Wiki page has info on this. But in a nutshell there's apps like JRemote for iOS, JRemote2 for Android and there's Panel which works in a web browser.

[blgentry]

If you want to run Windows, buy a machine specifically for Windows.  Don't buy a Mac to run windows.  Especially something as specialized as a MacPro.  Run MacOS on Mac hardware.  Run Windows on general purpose PC hardware, preferably with cards that you have researched to insure maximum compatibility with Windows and the programs you want to use.

A MacPro cylinder was a weird machine when it was released.  Now it's an obsolete weird machine.  The M1 and M2 based Macs are the future.  They perform very well and are available at rather low prices.  I would wager that the entry level M2 mini would outperform your current machines, and the MacPro by a pretty far margin.  For reference the JMark score on my M1 mini is little over 7700 .

Brian.

[dorianm]

The advantage to using Windows is, it'd allow the DAC's ASIO driver to be used and native DSD512 support to work, so no more need or conversions.

It may or may not work in Linux, it all depends if the Linux kernel has support for your DAC or not. Windows in this case would be the 'sure bet', so to speak.

Like Jim said, the remote Wiki page has info on this. But in a nutshell there's apps like JRemote for iOS, JRemote2 for Android and there's Panel which works in a web browser.

Thanks, I got the Remote for iOS. Looks good, crashed once. No EQ. But not bad.

[dorianm]

Thanks, I got the Remote for iOS. Looks good, crashed once. No EQ. But not bad.

Hi, I read up on the manual for this DAC I am using and it's max on USB is 96, but on SPD it's 192, but when I change everything on the settings to output 192, then play a song, it keeps reverting the settings to 96.

If I don't play a song, I can go back to settings and it still shows 192. It's after I play that it changes everything back to 96.

Any ideas?

[JimH]

Stated specs aren't always accurate.