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[Veniamin]

Hello.
Please help me to solve the problem of sound interruption and strong clicks periodically appearing when listening to music using iMac with JRiver MC31 and Teac NT505 connected via Network (LAN). Clicks appear unpredictably, but so strong that when using an amplifier (Yamaha a-s2100) at about 25% power, the protection trips and the amplifier turns off. The problem appeared after updating JRiver from MC25 to MC31. I listen to FLAC files without of output format enabled and without output encoding in DSD studio. Audio device setting is Core audio.
I understand that in order to assess the problem, it is necessary to describe other system settings, and I am ready to do this if you agree to help.

[bob]

Connected via network
means you aren't using core audio at all, you are using it as a zone in MC.
Can you confirm that?
If so, we need to know your DLNA server settings in MC.

Looking up that model I see there is a firmware update to 1.53.
Are you on that version?

[FrostyCanada]

Hello Veniamin, not 100% related, but I had playback interruptions that were random and quite annoying.

I originally blamed my streamer but it was actually my router.

It doesn’t take much to upset our NETGEAR nighthawk router (micro power hiccups) will do it.

Can you try resetting your router (unplug) count to 30 and restart + test again?

Brian

[Veniamin]

Fellow audiophiles, thanks for the quick response.

First of all, I will answer Brian, because here everything is more or less clear to me. Indeed, my iMac is connected to the Web via Wi-Fi, and Teac NT505 is connected to the router with a cable (LAN). But after all, both iMac and Teac provide data buffering and checking to ensure their transmission is continuous and error-free. Or am I wrong? Or maybe I don’t have the necessary settings in the JRiver and I just don’t have enough data transfer speed on the network? But all this can manifest itself in breaks in sound reproduction, but clicks do not depend on this. However, I will think about how to ensure that the iMac is connected to the network by wire (LAN).

Now for Bob's answer.

Unfortunately, I lack a general understanding of how the JRiver works and how the program interacts with the computer when I connect the iMac via the Network.

Yes, I don't need sound from the computer as this is my business place in another room. I need the data of music files that are on an external SDD, which are sent to Teac. And I control the program in the music room using a tablet via JRemote.

I understand that I did not properly configure the DLNA server and do not understand how to configure them correctly. I would be grateful if you could advise.
When I connected the iMac to Teac via USB, everything was easier - I chose Core Audio and Integer Mode and everything worked perfectly. But I don't want to have another computer next to the musical equipment, if JRiver and Teac allow switching over the Network with the maximum quality of data and sound transmission. I hope that you will help me set up the system correctly.

When you ask about firmware version 1.53, which device are you talking about?

Thanks again.
Veniamin

[FrostyCanada]

Hello Veniamin, I have my Mac mini and streamer that are both connected to the router via Ethernet.

The WIFI to the same router worked perfectly, but I still have audio issues between my mini and streamer … now this could be a coincidence but we had a micro power outage and the router seemed to be normal but obviously something wasn’t right.

I unplugged the router for 30 seconds, did a reboot and the streaming issues are gone.

Can you please try and reboot your router by unplugging and report back?

Brian

[bob]

Fellow audiophiles, thanks for the quick response.

First of all, I will answer Brian, because here everything is more or less clear to me. Indeed, my iMac is connected to the Web via Wi-Fi, and Teac NT505 is connected to the router with a cable (LAN). But after all, both iMac and Teac provide data buffering and checking to ensure their transmission is continuous and error-free. Or am I wrong? Or maybe I don’t have the necessary settings in the JRiver and I just don’t have enough data transfer speed on the network? But all this can manifest itself in breaks in sound reproduction, but clicks do not depend on this. However, I will think about how to ensure that the iMac is connected to the network by wire (LAN).

Now for Bob's answer.

Unfortunately, I lack a general understanding of how the JRiver works and how the program interacts with the computer when I connect the iMac via the Network.

Yes, I don't need sound from the computer as this is my business place in another room. I need the data of music files that are on an external SDD, which are sent to Teac. And I control the program in the music room using a tablet via JRemote.

I understand that I did not properly configure the DLNA server and do not understand how to configure them correctly. I would be grateful if you could advise.
When I connected the iMac to Teac via USB, everything was easier - I chose Core Audio and Integer Mode and everything worked perfectly. But I don't want to have another computer next to the musical equipment, if JRiver and Teac allow switching over the Network with the maximum quality of data and sound transmission. I hope that you will help me set up the system correctly.

When you ask about firmware version 1.53, which device are you talking about?

Thanks again.
Veniamin

Hi, thanks for the detailed information.
The USB connection is always easier, the protocol over the network is much more complex.
When I referred to the firmware version 1.53 that is what I saw on the TEAC website for your renderer. It may not be necessary. We'll check your DLNA server settings in MC first.

Assuming the TEAC can play every format, sample rate and bit depth you can throw at it, the place you want to go in MC is:
Tools->Options->Media Network->Add or configure DLNA servers...
This determines how MC sends tracks to your TEAC.
Assuming there is only one server configured (the default), please make sure that the Audio mode is set to "Original"

Are you having issues with a particular format from your source?
Just to be clear, when you trigger track playback via JRemote the track goes from the external drive into MC then on to the TEAC.

[Veniamin]

Hi Bob.
Regarding the firmware on Teac, I think that this should not affect, but I installed the latest one about a year ago. I will check and update if needed. At least Teac worked fine with the previous version of JRiver (MC25).

According to the settings, I am attaching a photo of some of them. I hope that you will tell me where and what options to choose.

Yes, I had a problem listening to the ISO file because I couldn't figure out which settings to set. By the way, even the folder with this file was not visible through JRiver until I dragged it from the finder window to the JRiver window. But the file cannot be played in Cor Audio mode (picture attached). It only starts if I select Null output. I don't understand how to set it up correctly.
Listening to files in the FLAC and DSD format did not cause problems, except for the clicks that led to the power amplifier turning off due to the protection operation. It seems to me that this happened precisely when listening to DSD files.
Regards,
Veniamin

[Veniamin]

Screenshots for Bob.

[JimH]

Please take a look at this thread for ideas about the problem:

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,24031.0.html

[blgentry]

I suspect the OP is trying to use Core Audio to play to his Teac via airplay or something else that the Mac OS is connected to.  Not directly DLNA from MC.  Otherwise, we would not a see an error message about DoP not working over Core Audio.

We probably need to see a screenshot of Player > Audio Path to be sure what the output actually is.
A screen shot of Player > Zone might also help.

Brian.

[Veniamin]

Friends,

From Brian's letter, I concluded that I poorly described the switching of my equipment. I believe that it makes sense to discuss only one question - how connected are the iMac, on which the JRiver program is located, and Teac. Other components cannot interfere with data transfer. And I get all the problems, it seems to me, precisely because of incorrect data transfer settings. In my house, a MESH system is installed as a router, to which an external Internet is connected using fiber optics. One of the nodes (transmitters) of this MESH system communicates via Wi-Fi with my iMac. The Teac is connected to the optical fiber directly through the converter with a LAN wire. Thus, I am trying to set up the transfer of music files from my computer to Teac over the Internet. I suspect that it will be better if I connect the iMac to my internal network with a wire, then the problems of transmitting via Wi-Fi from the computer to the router will be eliminated. As I understand it, it is desirable that the data from the computer pass to the Teac via the internal Network without accessing the external Internet (an analogue of wire transfer via USB connecting two devices), but I myself will not be able to make such control settings. The original Teac control program allows me to configure the connection of an external NAS, the role of which in this case would be played by my iMac. But it is minimalistic in its ability to control via a tablet connected to the Teac via Wi-Fi, so I'm trying to use JRiver. Let's first make the necessary settings while the iMac is connected to the router via Wi-Fi, and after connecting by wire, it will be possible to make adjustments that you tell.
There is one more question, the answer to which I cannot give myself. Am I sacrificing sound quality when transmitting data over the Internet instead of a direct wired connection via USB? After all, the sound quality is a priority in my case. Maybe for the sake of high-quality sound it makes sense to return to the USB connection from a separate computer that only provides music, which will stand next to the Teac and forget about the described problems with transcoding and the difficulties of the Internet connection? The answer to compare the sound quality by ear is good, but I would like to deliberately eliminate all possible problem areas in the data transmission channel. Teac NT505 is not just a DAC, but an advanced network device, which, as the Japanese developer and manufacturer declares, should provide network transport of the highest quality music signal. Let's try to do that with JRiver.
Looking forward to your response and expert advice. It is especially valuable if someone has personal experience of switching Teac with a data source.

Best regards,
Veniamin

[FrostyCanada]

Hello Veniamin, thank you for reporting back.

Routers can be troublesome devices at times. 

It really easy to test … can you please connect both your iMac and the Teac to the same “main mesh router” using LAN wire?

Hopefully your main mesh has more than 1 LAN connections.

Please test and report back,

Brian

[Veniamin]

Brian, thanks.

Yes, this check suggests itself. But after all, everything worked for me without failures with MS25. It is inconvenient for me to pull all the equipment into one place. It will be easier to run a wire from the main router of the MESH system to the iMac in order to eliminate the influence of the Network. Then both Teac and iMac will be connected to the main router by wire.
By the way, how do you propose to conduct the test? Listen to whether there will be clicks and delays?

Is it possible to get recommendations for setting up the MC31 before that? Maybe it's described somewhere? I repeat that not all options for setting up the program are clear and intuitive to me.
I found on the Internet step-by-step instructions for setting up the MC20 and it helped me a lot, but it is mainly focused on connecting via USB.

You did not answer my questions-reflections on the correctness in terms of good sound to sacrifice the USB connection for the convenience of LAN connection of the computer to the Teac.

Thank you in advance.
Veniamin

[bob]

Brian, thanks.

Yes, this check suggests itself. But after all, everything worked for me without failures with MS25. It is inconvenient for me to pull all the equipment into one place. It will be easier to run a wire from the main router of the MESH system to the iMac in order to eliminate the influence of the Network. Then both Teac and iMac will be connected to the main router by wire.
By the way, how do you propose to conduct the test? Listen to whether there will be clicks and delays?

Is it possible to get recommendations for setting up the MC31 before that? Maybe it's described somewhere? I repeat that not all options for setting up the program are clear and intuitive to me.
I found on the Internet step-by-step instructions for setting up the MC20 and it helped me a lot, but it is mainly focused on connecting via USB.

You did not answer my questions-reflections on the correctness in terms of good sound to sacrifice the USB connection for the convenience of LAN connection of the computer to the Teac.

Thank you in advance.
Veniamin

It's still not clear to me that you've answered Brian's question.
Are you playing to the "Player zone" using core audio or to the TEAC zone using DLNA??

[FrostyCanada]

It's still not clear to me that you've answered Brian's question.
Are you playing to the "Player zone" using core audio or to the TEAC zone using DLNA??

Bob, is the following statement correct?

**If we choose our streamer = you are using DLNA

Brian

[bob]

Bob, is the following statement correct?

**If we choose our streamer = you are using DLNA

Brian

Sorry, I meant the other Brian, blgentry

Anyway I don't see any indication that he's selecting a DLNA zone to play to in his screenshots and as blgentry said you wouldn't get the error dialog box he got if that was the case.

[FrostyCanada]

Hello Veniamin, can you please answer (yes/no) to following 3 question:

1) does your setup work reliably when both your iMac, and Teac are connected to router via LAN cable?

2) using your original setup, are you able to select and play music files using your Teac streamer via JRiver music server (see picture attached).

3) do you still have MC25 installed?

Please confirm,
Frosty

[blgentry]

@Veniamin,

Please post two screen shots while playing to your Teac:

1.  Player > Zone
2.  Player > Audio Path

That will help to clarify some basics.

Thanks,
Brian G.

[Awesome Donkey]

The Audio Path while playing back media screenshot is probably going to be the most important, as it'll tell what happening. Just remember to playback media while taking the screenshot, otherwise it'll be empty.

[FrostyCanada]

Hello Veniamin, I think a separate topic should be created to answer your question for “best music quality”. 
————————-   
Veniamin said: You did not answer my questions-reflections on the correctness in terms of good sound to sacrifice the USB connection for the convenience of LAN connection of the computer to the Teac.
——————————

Kindest regards,
Frosty

[Veniamin]

Hello Brian.
Here is what I did:
1. Updated the firmware version on Teac;
2. Reinstalled MC31 on iMac;
3. Updated the version of JRemote on the iPad;
4. I found on the Internet a step-by-step description of the JRiver (MC20) setup and performed the described settings (but it is for USB connection, not for LAN);
5. I connected JRemote using the access key generated by MC31 and made sure that I can see my library of files (discs), and I can also control music playback if I choose Player as the Zone (as shown in my MC31).

What problems do I have:
1. No sound at all on my Teac. When selected on MC31 or on JRemote the Player option in the Zone of any kind of output device for sound, the Flac 44.1 file on 16 is played, but there is no sound on Teac. However, I can hear sound on the iMac if I select both Core Audio options. I could not find what needs to be changed in the MC31 settings so that the sound is played through Teac. To check the performance of Teac, instead of JRemote, I turned on the native Teac control program - XP Streamer on the iPad. This program allows me to connect the JRiver music library and plays all types of files without exception in the original format. The sound is fully reproduced. Thus, I suppose that the problem of the lack of sound from the MC31 is a problem with the settings of this program.
2. If I try to play a DSD file with MC31, the program shows the impossibility of performing such an action (photo attached). I do not understand what to change in the settings.
3. If I select on the iPad in JRemot the Tick as Zone, then I observe a failure of the JRiver program on the iMac (it closes with an indication of an error on the iMac). Screenshot attached.

The requested photos of the zone selection and the path are also attached.

Veniamin

[bob]

Looks to me like you are playing bluetooth through core audio.
Expand "Playing Now" and look for the TEAC as a zone.

[FrostyCanada]

Bob, I found this from Awesome Donkey from 2018.
—————————————
Enable DSD bitstreaming and make sure volume is set to 100%.

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/DSD

You might also have to open the Audio MIDI Setup app within the Mac, find the McIntosh C2600 connected to the Mac and set it to the max bit-depth/sample rate available. This is required for some DSD DACs to get DSD playback working.
—————————————

Kindest regards,
FrostyCanada

[bob]

Bob, I found this from Awesome Donkey from 2018.
—————————————
Enable DSD bitstreaming and make sure volume is set to 100%.

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/DSD

You might also have to open the Audio MIDI Setup app within the Mac, find the McIntosh C2600 connected to the Mac and set it to the max bit-depth/sample rate available. This is required for some DSD DACs to get DSD playback working.
—————————————

Kindest regards,
FrostyCanada

This doesn't apply to Veniamin since he is using a network connected device (DLNA) not a USB connected device.

[Veniamin]

Can someone still refer me to the published instructions for setting up the JRiver?

Please help me overcome the strange problem of no sound on LAN connection. I am attaching a photo from the iPad during content playback on JRiver + JRemote. All controls work but no sound.

If I run Teac's content management software (HR Streamer) on my iPad and select the JRiver library (Photo attached), everything works perfectly (Photo attached). So the problem is in setting up the JRiver, in JRemote everything is simple - just select the zone.

Regarding the zones in JRemote - I see there only my only zone (library) called Player, which I configured in JRiver. Sometimes one more zone appears there - Teac NT505 itself (Photo attached). When choosing Teac as a zone, as I wrote above, there is a crash of the JRiver program on my Mac.

[Awesome Donkey]

The "setup guide" is on the Wiki with all the various articles, the ones I'd recommend reading are about DLNA and DSD-over-DLNA.

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/DLNA
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/DSD#DSD_Over_DLNA

[bob]

...
Regarding the zones in JRemote - I see there only my only zone (library) called Player, which I configured in JRiver. Sometimes one more zone appears there - Teac NT505 itself (Photo attached). When choosing Teac as a zone, as I wrote above, there is a crash of the JRiver program on my Mac.

Are you using 31.0.43?
Your crash sounds exactly like the last item fixed.

31.0.43 (8/7/2023)

1. Changed: When a smartlist finds no matches, a message is shown in the list.
2. Changed: Expressions that output an average use three decimal places instead of one.
3. Changed: Added "Favorites" category for Cloudplay in Theater View.
4. Fixed: MCWS Playback/Info when called early was creating the playback engine because of a recent change (31.0.29). Could cause crashes in MacOS (for example when JRemote was starting playback on a remote zone).

[Veniamin]

Yes, I'm using MC 31.0.43.

I found a solution to the problem with the lack of sound when selecting the Player zone on JRemote and playing files through Teac. It turned out that I was just controlling the remote playback on the iMac and not on the Teac. After I selected the Teac device on the MC31 in Playing Now with the Teac turned on, it had an empty base for playing. At the bottom of the window on the right, I followed the suggestion to double-click the mouse to connect the existing music base, and all my albums appeared on the iPad when I selected Teac as the zone, the music began to start without crashing the program and the signal began to play over the amplifier. It sounds funny, but I didn't realized that when choosing the Player zone, I was just running the process on the iMac. The lack of understanding of what a zone is and how all devices interact did not make it possible to solve a really simple problem.
So far, there is a problem now of incorrect representation of the file type when playing - so, for some reason, FLAC 44.1\16 is visible as MP3. I hope to find a solution in the settings.
Thanks to all.

Regards,
Veniamin

[JimH]

When you use DLNA, the server may convert formats.  Check the server settings.

[bob]

Also, in JRemote the zone that MC will use is determined by the Bullseye in the lower left in Playing Now.

[blgentry]

You should really use a USB connection.  If you are willing to continue this troubleshooting process for quite a while longer, you might get everything sorted out.  DLNA has a lot of settings to change and adjust.  USB will work with very little effort.  You know this because you already tried it. 

You might consider buying a set of USB ethernet extenders.  You would need a long ethernet cable to run between the Teac and your computer, then plug the extenders into the ends so you have a very long USB connection.

Best of luck to you.

Brian.

[Veniamin]

Friends and fellow audiophiles,
I have a stupid habit of not backing down when I'm in trouble. Thanks for your hints, I overcame all the problems with the settings. Everything works perfectly and I finally figured out how to manage the settings both in USB and LAN connections.

As an expert in biochemistry and neuropharmacology, I can say with confidence that ordinary JRiver users (not from the IT field) have a minimal chance of getting to know Uncle Alzheimer, thanks to constant brain training. 

I wish you all success and enjoy listening to your favorite music!

Best regards,
Veniamin

[FrostyCanada]

Hello Veniamin, I’m glad that you were able to sort things out.

Happy listening,
Brian

[Veniamin]

Thank you Brian.

It was a fascinating quest and the result is worth the effort.

Regards,
Veniamin