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[bogdanbz]

Looks like there is a video player in the Windows Store, which is able to use the official "Dolby Vision Extensions" extension just like the "Movies & TV" app from Microsoft can.

In order for this to work, one needs:
- Energy Media Player: https://apps.microsoft.com/detail/9p9zh5fl1bfk
- Dolby Vision Extensions: https://apps.microsoft.com/detail/9pltg1lwphlf
- HEVC Video Extensions: https://apps.microsoft.com/detail/9nmzlz57r3t7

The extension converts DolbyVision video to HDR10 video, apparently (LLDV processing). The connected display does not switch to DolbyVideo mode (as I could see), it sends HDR10 video.

According to this reddit post, it can handle "nearly all DV Profiles (5,7,8,9) with CMv4.0 support".

It doesn't handle Profile 7 FEL layer though.

There's a link in that reddit post to a thread with various DolbyVision test files too.

I imagine the extension can only be used from a sandboxed app, any maybe only when using MediaFoundation so it's not possible to make use of it from MC though.

[Hendrik]

That sounds like about the same amount of Dolby Vision support we already have. Converting all DV profiles without an Enhancement Layer to HDR10.
Outside of Profile 5, which uses an entirely different color encoding, these changes to the image are pretty minimal however. A few bits of metadata can only go so far. The EL from Blu-ray discs might make a bigger difference, but we also don't support applying it currently.

We don't make use of the DV tone-mapping metadata however, so if you aim to convert to SDR thats a different story, but HDR10 output should be close.

[slerch666]

The EL from Blu-ray discs might make a bigger difference, but we also don't support applying it currently.

If this can be figured out, I would be happy to toss my Android AMB 6+ in favor of just straight MC/JRVR.

I got the AM6B+ so I could use the rips I made of my UHD BDs and it works well enough. The Kodi Player w/ Plex P4K stuff is janky but the important part is, it plays w/ DV and the FEL so I get over it.

[eve]

That sounds like about the same amount of Dolby Vision support we already have. Converting all DV profiles without an Enhancement Layer to HDR10.
Outside of Profile 5, which uses an entirely different color encoding, these changes to the image are pretty minimal however. A few bits of metadata can only go so far. The EL from Blu-ray discs might make a bigger difference, but we also don't support applying it currently.

We don't make use of the DV tone-mapping metadata however, so if you aim to convert to SDR thats a different story, but HDR10 output should be close.

Yep. Nothing on the Windows side will handle DV FEL properly yet (which is kind of a big deal). As Slerch mentions, there is a way to do it with certain STB's + CoreELEC right now. Hoping that leads to broader support but I don't really have the time to experiment.

[slerch666]

As Slerch mentions, there is a way to do it with certain STB's + CoreELEC right now. Hoping that leads to broader support but I don't really have the time to experiment.

The only reason it works on these specific STBs is because, for whatever reason, Dolby licensed and handed over the "blob" used for decoding DV that's used on UHD players. Normally they just license and hand over the "blob" that does the Netflix and other streaming services... Profile... 5 I think it is? Or is the online one 8?

Other STBs with different SoCs can do Profile 8 but ignore FEL. Looking at the Coreelec forums, it doesn't seem like anyone is confident they will figure out a way to do FEL on other devices types.

Either way, I am not sure this is something we will easily get on Windows without MS/Dolby offering a way to license our devices to allow for it. Which I don't see happening ever.

But if it does happen, I will happily abandon this AMB6+

[Hendrik]

Processing FEL into a HDR10 stream is not out of the question, eg. LLDV. Actually triggering DV mode on the TV and having it do processing, thats unlikely from a Windows PC.

[danbez]

LLDV support of the full EL layer would be fantastic!

[Manni]

LLDV support of the full EL layer would be fantastic!

+1, LLDV support of the full EL layer would be great

Any chance of that happening with BD folders, or would it be mkv only, as is currently the case?

[Hendrik]

The likelyhood of support is MKV first, then BD title playback, and BD menu playback a distant last (this includes playback started of the main movie through menu mode). Primarily being because LAV powers the first two, so any logic that might be shared there wouldnt apply to menus.

But its all hypothetical until such a time that its actually a feature.

[Manni]

The likelyhood of support is MKV first, then BD title playback, and BD menu playback a distant last. Primarily being because LAV powers the first two, so any logic that might be shared there wouldnt apply to menus.

But its all hypothetical until such a time that its actually a feature.

Thanks. Main title would be great, as DV is only really needed for the main title. Question though re mkv, is it possible now with simple settings and no guessing to rip the main movie to mkv and get the forced subtitles played correctly? Last time I tried there were many titles with multiple forced subs in English, and apart from trying them all there was no way to get make mkv to select the correct one (I.e. the forced sub that plays correctly when you select “English” language in the menu. Apart from extras and TV series episodes, this is still one of the main reason why I rip to full folders (though I also need this for Oppo 203 clone network playback, but that would become mostly irrelevant if MC could support DV fully).

[bogdanbz]

What's special about the Dolby Vision Extension is that it seems to interpret the stream dynamic metadata and applies dynamic tone mapping. That's something I have not seen non-official software playback solutions do so far.

[slerch666]

Processing FEL into a HDR10 stream is not out of the question, eg. LLDV. Actually triggering DV mode on the TV and having it do processing, thats unlikely from a Windows PC.

This, to me, is more than enough since it would use the data that's there and display as expected... IF I understand the way it works correctly.

I don't need DV to pop up on the screen but want to use all the data available to get the best possible results and image.

So am I understanding it correctly?

[slerch666]

Thanks. Main title would be great, as DV is only really needed for the main title. Question though re mkv, is it possible now with simple settings and no guessing to rip the main movie to mkv and get the forced subtitles played correctly? Last time I tried there were many titles with multiple forced subs in English, and apart from trying them all there was no way to get make mkv to select the correct one (I.e. the forced sub that plays correctly when you select “English” language in the menu. Apart from extras and TV series episodes, this is still one of the main reason why I rip to full folders (though I also need this for Oppo 203 clone network playback, but that would become mostly irrelevant if MC could support DV fully).

I am not sure I completely understand what you are asking for, but the way I understand it:

You want MKVs to default to specific languages for subtitles and you want the proper subtitles, even if multiple of that language exist

You can set the defaults in the Video settings of MC, but... if there are multiple English options, it will default to the one that is marked as default in the MKV. So if SDH subtitles are the "default" subtitles, they will be on when played back, even if you want say, English for On Screen Text (usually a thing for Anime... you get On Screen Text for things in Japanese on screen while watching in English and generally Default for English audio when choosing from BD menus).

You can use MKVToolnix to set the default languages fairly easily once you have files in MKV format though.

I have attached an image of what to set in MC (sounds like you already know, but just in case and if not, you can check the image).
I also created some quick and dirty instructions on doing this in MKVToolnix and have attached a PDF as I couldn't figure out a better format.

If you don't want to do the MKVToolnix GUI option outlined, then what you have works and you can stick with that too, obviously.

Hope that makes sense/helps you and sorry if I misunderstood your ask.

[Manni]

I am not sure I completely understand what you are asking for, but the way I understand it:

You want MKVs to default to specific languages for subtitles and you want the proper subtitles, even if multiple of that language exist

You can set the defaults in the Video settings of MC, but... if there are multiple English options, it will default to the one that is marked as default in the MKV. So if SDH subtitles are the "default" subtitles, they will be on when played back, even if you want say, English for On Screen Text (usually a thing for Anime... you get On Screen Text for things in Japanese on screen while watching in English and generally Default for English audio when choosing from BD menus).

You can use MKVToolnix to set the default languages fairly easily once you have files in MKV format though.

I have attached an image of what to set in MC (sounds like you already know, but just in case and if not, you can check the image).
I also created some quick and dirty instructions on doing this in MKVToolnix and have attached a PDF as I couldn't figure out a better format.

If you don't want to do the MKVToolnix GUI option outlined, then what you have works and you can stick with that too, obviously.

Hope that makes sense/helps you and sorry if I misunderstood your ask.

Thanks a lot for taking the time to do this, but no, that's not what I meant.

I am talking about FORCED subtitles only. For example, navi language in Avatar, where everyone speaks English (so no need for subtitles most of the time, hence subs are disabled) EXCEPT when people talk navi, in which case I want the English Forced subs to display in order to know what is said. Same in any English film where people suddenly start to speak French, Spanish or Chinese.

AFAIK, the only way to get these forced subs automatically is to select your language in the bluray/4K bluray menu. This determines which forced subtitle track (English, French, whatever) will be played when needed.

I can't set a prefered audio track because I will play the original language track when playing a foreign film, not the dubbed English track. Of course, I'll play the English track in a native English film.

I also don't want to use x different tools when ripping. I just want to set the proper (permanent) settings once in makemkv, an not have to fool around with each title. I just don't have the time for that.

Last time I looked, there were titles where you can have up to 4 or 5 English Forced subs, so there is no way to know which one you should keep and whether it will be marked as forced by makemkv in the ripped file.

I could consider ripping some titles as mkv if I don't need the extras, but only as long as the correct forced subs (English for me) play automatically in MC only when needed, and I don't have to waste hours with each title to find out which track is the correct one, and use two or three different tools to look at the subs, mark them as forced manually, etc.

By the way, ripping to folders isn't enough, you have to play these titles with full menus, in order to select the correct language initially, before playback. If you select "title only", these titles still won't play with the correct forced subs, because it's only possible to do so through the menus (at least that's what I was told by Hendrik the last time I asked, but it might have changed).

[slerch666]

Thanks a lot for taking the time to do this, but no, that's not what I meant.

I am talking about FORCED subtitles only. For example, navi language in Avatar, where everyone speaks English (so no need for subtitles most of the time, hence subs are disabled) EXCEPT when people talk navi, in which case I want the English Forced subs to display in order to know what is said. Same in any English film where people suddenly start to speak French, Spanish or Chinese.

AFAIK, the only way to get these forced subs automatically is to select your language in the bluray/4K bluray menu. This determines which forced subtitle track (English, French, whatever) will be played when needed.

You're welcome; sorry it isn't what you need/want.

You CAN set the "forced" subs using what I detailed, but you need to know which sub track to choose for it, as even forced subs are just PGS files in a rip.
But it's extra steps you have to take, extra program(s) you have to use, and since you have a process that works for you... I would stick with that. No need to waste a lot of time for no reason or spend a ton of time on every rip.

I think the other issue with what I recommended is you would also have to know that there are forced subtitles in a film. Plenty of movies don't have them but when they do, you want them on without messing with crap which I can appreciate.

I prefer MKV over folders/ISOs because I don't want to waste time opening menus etc but everyone has a process they prefer/want to follow.

[TheShoe]

I prefer MKV over folders/ISOs because I don't want to waste time opening menus etc but everyone has a process they prefer/want to follow.

I used to as well but there are so many extras i want to watch, and extracting/tagging them is a pain, so full menus make that easy.  that and a full backup means a full backup that i can convert to MKV/MP4/etc.... as needed.  if the original discs become damaged, i always have a backup of the original.

the main trade-off is in storage space, but this can be on spindle and spindle storage is cheap. < $300 for 16 TB for server quality HDD.  drop 4 into a small enclosure, use Snapraid for 1-parity, and you have 16 TB * 3 HDDs. (4th HDD is parity) That'll store a good amount of movies.

If you want to skip menus, and you are using Media Center, just use particles.  Create a particle to the MPLS you want and you have immediate access to the title, tagged with meta-data, chapters, subtitles without issue.  To date I've never seen any other software with the particle capability and I use it extensively.

[Manni]

I used to as well but there are so many extras i want to watch, and extracting/tagging them is a pain, so full menus make that easy.  that and a full backup means a full backup that i can convert to MKV/MP4/etc.... as needed.  if the original discs become damaged, i always have a backup of the original.

the main trade-off is in storage space, but this can be on spindle and spindle storage is cheap. < $300 for 16 TB for server quality HDD.  drop 4 into a small enclosure, use Snapraid for 1-parity, and you have 16 TB * 3 HDDs. (4th HDD is parity) That'll store a good amount of movies.

If you want to skip menus, and you are using Media Center, just use particles.  Create a particle to the MPLS you want and you have immediate access to the title, tagged with meta-data, chapters, subtitles without issue.  To date I've never seen any other software with the particle capability and I use it extensively.

Thanks and sorry I dragged this thread off-topic. Is there a link to a resource (thread or wiki) describing particles and does it work if you use MC as an external player, or do you to use MC’s library for it to work? Cheers!

[mattkhan]

Thanks and sorry I dragged this thread off-topic. Is there a link to a resource (thread or wiki) describing particles and does it work if you use MC as an external player, or do you to use MC’s library for it to work? Cheers!

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Particles

I think https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,95177.msg672393.html#msg672393 has some more details on the limitations, thread is old and jriver doesn't operate an issue tracker so no idea if any of those are now fixed (and also no idea about use with an external player)

[Manni]

https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Particles

I think https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,95177.msg672393.html#msg672393 has some more details on the limitations, thread is old and jriver doesn't operate an issue tracker so no idea if any of those are now fixed (and also no idea about use with an external player)

Thanks, given that the first step is "import title into library" it won't work for me as I don't use MC's library, though I guess I could if it allowed me to play main title with forced subs. I'd need to find out if it's possible to "particle" automatically on import, because I'm not going to do this manually on 4,000 folder titles.

[TheShoe]

particles need MC's library to work.  They are just pointers to MPLS files in a folder backup.  It's a convenient way to go straight to the movie/video without going through menus (which work most of the time, but on occasion, do not)

[Hendrik]

Note that none of that solves the forced subtitle question. Only the menu knows which they are, and only if you actually use it, so you'll always spend some manual time to figure that out - either by using the menu and enduring trailers and whatnot, or by figuring out the right track during ripping. I favor the latter.

[Manni]

Note that none of that solves the forced subtitle question. Only the menu knows which they are, and only if you actually use it, so you'll always spend some manual time to figure that out - either by using the menu and enduring trailers and whatnot, or by figuring out the right track during ripping. I favor the latter.

Thanks, that’s what I thought. There are no trailers on 4K bluray and that’s what I watch most of the time, so I prefer instant and auto rip and specifying my language when the disk launches. I need to keep all the extras anyway, and full menus is the only (sane) option for TB series anyway, but if you don’t rip many films, or not often, I understand why you might prefer the second option. I just wanted to check that it was still the case, as a few people kept telling me it was possible and the last time I asked you were just as clear. It’s ome more USP for MC anyway

[JimH]

jmone's Swag of Tools may also help:  https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,106802.0.html