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[skeeterfood]

Seems like there should be an upgrade price from V8 licenses that worked for V9.  I would have upgraded to V9, but you "gave" some of us V8 users a free upgrade.  Now, if you had made me upgrade I could get in on the half-price deal, but since I didn't I'm stuck paying full price for V10?  So is this payback for the free V9 upgrade?

You'll never make everyone happy, but if you stick with a more common method of charging for upgrades at least you can claim you're the same as eveyone else.

Something like this:
--------------------------------------
Previous Version bought within the last few months before a new version comes out: Free Upgrade
(Sucks in the wafflers who may decide to wait for the next version before buying since it should be out any day now, but who may forget about your product by the time you actually release the new version)
Prevous Version bought beyond the cutoff: Upgrade Price
Older Version but at least X.X: Upgrade Price
Older Version older than X.X: Full Price
No previous version: Full Price

Short, simple, elegant, like everyone else...

As always, IMHO.

-John

[KingSparta]

I Really don't think this is up for debate.

If it was i think you would hear many Ideas

[schizo]

I purchased MC 9.1 at the end of October 2003-- are you guys really telling me I need to shell out another $20 to upgrade to 10? I didn't expect lifetime updates, although that's not unusual for shareware, but I really hoped for at least one year!

I took a leap buying MC instead of using iTunes for my ipod-- MC9 cost a lot for a shareware program, but I felt that the frequent updates and communicative developers were worth it. I'll be really disappointed if I'm abandoned here.

[JimH]

No, you don't need to buy it.  9.1 is a great program.

[equalizer]

No, you don't need to buy it.  9.1 is a great program.

It sure is. Either way if you don't purchase V10. You can't go wrong with 9.0-9.1.

[schizo]

That's not the answer I was looking for, as I'm sure you realize. Hopefully you'll reconsider.

[equalizer]

Jim,

Is V10 going to still follow the restore limit (etc) like the past V8-9 licenses did?

[JimH]

Jim,

Is V10 going to still follow the restore limt (etc) like the past V8-9 licenses did?

Yes.

[equalizer]

I don't know the more I'm reading this thread the more retaliation I’m seeing. Although JRiver is known for enjoying lovely feedback such as this. I’m going to add some input.

Jim stated that for a short period of time upgrades will be $10 additional. There has also been a NEW feature talk. And for the time being the public has no idea, but it might be worth the $10 upgrade, as I am a V7 to V8 to V9 buyer. Every VERSION NUMBER[/i] warrants something totally new, not just fixes, and visual work.

So I’d wait for more info before jumping the gun.

-equalizer

[bvm]

Did someone delete my post earlier this hour, or is there a race in yabb?

the more retaliation I?m seeing

Do you mean resentment?

At any rate, I'm with schizo.  I bought 9.1 a mere two weeks (and five little builds) ago, and it doesn't make me feel kindly toward J River to hear that that's not good enough to get me a few more rounds of improvements.  There was certainly no warning that 9.1 was going to leap to 10.0 imminently, or I'd have held off.  Sure, 9.1 is plenty good for my needs, except that I was really hoping to enjoy future developments in the iPod plugin.  And it seems really unlikely that the most interesting ones (like dynamic playlists) will be backward compatible with the no-longer-in-development 9.1 line.

[Shady Bimmer]

Seems like there should be an upgrade price from V8 licenses that worked for V9.  I would have upgraded to V9, but you "gave" some of us V8 users a free upgrade.  Now, if you had made me upgrade I could get in on the half-price deal, but since I didn't I'm stuck paying full price for V10?  So is this payback for the free V9 upgrade?

Wow - MC10 beta was announced this afternoon and folks are already getting excited over the pricing.

You purchased a V8 license.
You were able to use V9 with your V8 license at no cost.
Upgrade cost from V8 to V9 is/was $19.98
Upgrade cost from V9 to V10 is $19.98

Purchase price of V10 is $39.98
The cost to upgrade from V8 to V9 then V9 to V10 is $39.96

The 4 cent difference is that meaningful to you?

Perhaps we can all slow down a bit?  9.1 is a great product and nobody is forcing you to upgrade.  V10 is still beta and Jim has indicated licensing issues are still being worked out.

Peace.  Enjoy the music.

[pbreet]

I understand some of the posts here, but for me...

I bought 8.0, can't remember the price.

I got a free upgrad to 9.xxxx

Only $10 to upgrade to 10.0... cool.....

[thtv01]

I'm right there with you guys!  I purchased 9.1 a little less than 3 months ago and feel pretty let down by this news.  Mainly because there was really no warning that my 9.1 version would be replaced so  quickly.  Don't get me wrong I absolutely love MC 9.1 but I can't remember ever purchasing shareware that wouldn't allow you to upgrade after such a short period of time.   I guess I figured I would've  at least gotten a full year.  Just seems weird to me.  I mean they are still posting new builds for 9.1.

Anyway I guess I'll just have to wait and  see what this version offers.  I'm sorry to be complaining because you guys have been top notch in supporting 9.1.
Just my two cents.....

 ? ? ? ?
Thanks
Tim

     

[LonWar]

I understand some of the posts here, but for me...

I bought 8.0, can't remember the price.

I got a free upgrad to 9.xxxx

Only $10 to upgrade to 10.0... cool.....

Where did you see that it was a 10$ upgrade to 10??


As long as there is something in 10 that is a lot betther then 9... Im in!

[sraymond]

I purchased MC 9.1 at the end of October 2003-- are you guys really telling me I need to shell out another $20 to upgrade to 10? I didn't expect lifetime updates, although that's not unusual for shareware, but I really hoped for at least one year!

I took a leap buying MC instead of using iTunes for my ipod-- MC9 cost a lot for a shareware program, but I felt that the frequent updates and communicative developers were worth it. I'll be really disappointed if I'm abandoned here.

Schizo,

I certainly see your point.  Last summer, I was getting ready to buy Sonic Stylus Studio - an XML development environment that costs about $500.  There was a new beta version in the works.  Prior to purchasing, I called and sent an e-mail asking what the upgrade path was.  I certainly didn't want to pay the advertised $250 upgrade fee when I knew the new product was in the pipeline (though pricing was not available, it was thought to sell for about the same price as the previous version).  The moral of the story:  I got an e-mail from the Director of Sales saying he couldn't answer my question (the upgrade paths hadn't been determined yet), but he gave me his personal guarantee that I'd get the new version free of charge.  Now that's CUSTOMER SERVICE!  Oh...  and I got the free upgrade.

Had I not known about the beta and I got stuck with an outdated version just two months after purchase, I'd have expected the same results.  This isn't like buying a new car - we all know when the new cars are coming out.  If you didn't know a new version was on the verge of beta, I think it's fair to give you a better deal.

But, again...  it's still just $10.  So perhaps we're making a mountain out of a molehill.

Scott-

[TimB]

OK, I'm stupid, that's fine.

Can I upgrade from 9.0 to 10.0 now for $10?  How and where?

Thanks!

-=Tim=-

[ashawley]

OK, I've read "shareware" in these posts twice.

I'm sorry, but since when was MC9 shareware?  Last I heard JRiver was a for-profit company.

What a great deal--$20 to upgrade your V9 license? Sounds like a deal to me.

Adam

[LisaRCT]

I have a question about my license . . . . MC shows:
Media Center 10.0.10 (registered)
 . .  . followed by my name and license number.

Does this mean I don't have to upgrade again?

 ?

[Mirko]

It seems like I was a little stupid yesterday...

Originally I had a Ver8-license < 12/2002 - so I used to use Ver9 without paying an update-fee (I don't understand why, but who really goes to the bottom of it if the only alternative meens paying?). As I had some licensing-problem with Ver10-beta I decided to upgrade my license to Ver9, because I thought this might be the "new MC10-license" - yes, as I said, stupid thinking...

So I think this meens I'm entitled to the 20$/10$ upgrade, or do I have to buy a full license, because my first license is an older one? Would be nice, if someone could say something so that I can begin to beg my gf...

Mirko

[Deivit]

Will a version 10 license work with a Version 9 software?

I mean... I would like to take advantage of the promotional upgrade fee of 10$ but will probably wait until V.10 is more developed before upgrading the software itself, so I will be using 9.1 still for a while.

Would that be possible?

Thank you

[jleerigby]

I can't believe some of the comments in this thread.  9.1 has evolved into a great product and you could purchase it for just $40.  That's way less than what this program is worth and now you're being given the chance to see the fruits of the next exciting development for just another $10.  In the UK that wouldn't buy my lunch.  So stop the wingeing, enjoy the best media software that's ever been released and give something back by paying the measily $10.

[sraymond]

I can't believe some of the comments in this thread.  9.1 has evolved into a great product and you could purchase it for just $40.  That's way less than what this program is worth and now you're being given the chance to see the fruits of the next exciting development for just another $10.  In the UK that wouldn't buy my lunch.  So stop the wingeing, enjoy the best media software that's ever been released and give something back by paying the measily $10.

"Fair and reasonable" and "worth" are two different things.

Yes:  Getting a new version for $20 (assuming users don't want the $10 discount given to beta testers) might still be well below the "worth" threshold.

But:  It's not "fair" to have bought a version and then to see a new version appear within a few months.

Granted:  We haven't been told how long the beta will last - if it's six months, then there's much less unfairness to having a new version come out eight months after purchase.

give something back

What?  Providing constructive criticism isn't giving something back?   Ok...  you say complain, I say constructive criticism.  Let's just call the whole thing off!

Scott-

[schizo]

You download the software, can use it for a limited period of time, then have to pay to continue. It's shareware.

Maybe MC is worth >$40 to you; to me it was a very close call as iTunes, winamp, foobar2k, windows mediaplayer, etc, are all free. My decision to buy MC instead of using iTunes was entirely based upon the support and very frequent updates I saw in these forums. My expectations were that I would continue to get updates for more than a couple of months. I don't feel those expectations are unreasonable and I don't feel a moral imperative to pay another $20 (or $10, or $1) for updates to a piece of software I bought last month.

Hopefully they'll do the right thing and offer a free upgrade for registrations in the past 3 months. If not, I guess I'll shake my head and move on with my life.

[nila]

Two things.

First - Jim - It might be worth starting a v10 forum.

That'll keep all the v10 ideas and bugs off this forum and make your life easier.
Also, it wont shove v10 in people's faces when they come here for v9 support and so would save a lot of the comments like seen in this post about people having just bought v9 and now 10 is out.

As alot of us old timers know - v10 probably wont be out for a while and is just now starting Beta testing. v10 hasn't been released days/weeks after they bought v9 - it's still months away.



Having said that - your offering a half price upgrade cost - great - what about those of us that have v8 licenses though and are going to have to buy a full license?
Any plans to give us any introductory promotional rate if we buy it early and are beta testers?

[DancingSamurai]

I bought v9 less than a month ago, and have to agree with the comments here that I feel cheated with the news that I'll have to pay another $10 or $20 to upgrade to the new version. As others have mentioned, it's unexpected because other companies do tend to give free upgrades for those who just purchased their previous version.

As a student, the $40 US is a lot of money to shell out. I did it because I was very impressed with J River's product and their support. Unlike WMP, it actually performs as advertised, and bugs are quickly fixed. That is worth the $40 to me, and yes even $50 or $60, when it comes down to it, but I don't like to buy something and then find out I didn't get everything I thought I was paying for.

[nila]

One other quick point about those of us needing to get full versions:

I can go buy an upgrade for my v8 license for $20.
I can then take advantage of this offer to buy the upgrade from v9 to v10 for $10 which is a total cost of $30.

It's just a really round about way of having to do it and obviously I'd rather just purchase a license straight with some kind of equivalent offer.

Anyway, waiting to hear what to do

Nila

[Mirko]

Nila, it seems like I have to do it so...

[Marko]

Nila, that'll do for me too.

Would be nice if it could be made a bit more direct though. Nice to have it rolled into one transaction.

-marko.

[PhatPhreddy]

Well I am resigned to staying registered with J River but I do have to comment on the product life cycles being very short...

When 9 came out we were told that 8 would still be a developing platform and that really has not happened (I dont disagree with this I think 2 product cycles is a waste) it had also been discussed for an audio only MC9 being a kind of replacement... That also does not appear to be likely.

I will no doubt be upgrading but I do think 40 USD is a little steep considering how often this is rebilled in product cycles, hairstyle still need work etc etc..

I could also comment that I registered when v9 came out trying to buy a v9 license but because I was running a v8 version on my net connected machine I ended up with a v8 one and immediately requested it be cancelled or exchanged.  There is a 'no refunds' policy that I think also a bit tough but perhaps thats just me.

All in all I want J River to stay in biz producing great software.. If this is what it takes then so be it, however upgrading users need to be encouraged as they are the best customers, how best to implement that is up to J River.  

[JimH]

I purchased 9.1 a little less than 3 months ago and feel pretty let down by this news.  Mainly because there was really no warning that my 9.1 version would be replaced so  quickly.

Remember that the life cycle on these has been something like 9 or 10 months, so if you buy near the end of beta on one product, it won't be very long until beta begins on the next.

Remember, too, that nobody is telling you that you have to buy it.  You can always vote with your wallet.  We just can't stand still and we can't give our work away.

[TimB]

OK, I'm stupid, that's fine.

Can I upgrade from 9.0 to 10.0 now for $10?  How and where?

Thanks!

-=Tim=-

No controversy here, just need an answer!

-=Tim=-

[Squanderbug]

I must admit, in my case it's a bit annoying to hear this.

I bought my licence about a week and a half ago, half way through the 30 day trial period because I felt happy that I would like to continue using MC.

Now I find that I'll have to pay for an upgrade to 10 when if I'd waited until the 30 day trial period ran out before buying I could have bought 10 straight away.

That feels a bit unfair to me.

[drosoph]

I am a little unerved by the fact that I bought MJ back in the days of 9.0 beta ... the 9.0 BETA PURCHASE link took me to an 8.0 PURCHASE page.

It was explained to me that my 8.0 license would be fine as it was purchased after a certain date.  But, to me, I bought 9.0 ... I downloaded 9.0 and clicked Purchase ...
Not my fault you didnt have the link correct???

What are your thoughts?  I plan to upgrade for $10 ... a new license for $40 seems a bit steep ... heck, I don't even have a problem with 20$ ...

My thoughts.  What are yours?

[ctrevith]

It's customary and reasonable to charge for a FEATURE upgrade for software.  It's also customary and reasonable that those who recently purchased ver 9.1 be given the upgrade for free unless the total purchase price of the software increases beyond $39.95. That being said, here are the questions I have:

1.  Will the things that are currently broken in ver 9.1 be fixed and will those patches be available for those that chose to stay with ver 9.1?

2. What are the new features introduced in ver 10.0 that warrant a major version upgrade?

[schizo]

I'm the kind of customer you want. I'm the guy who paid for your product instead of getting a crack or using one of the many free alternatives.

You have my $40, but you certainly won't get any more, from me or my friends. You just lost a customer.

[AussieBill]

I'm a big supporter of Media Center, and I have been encouraging friends to try it out ever since I first evaluated and then purchased the product that was built by JRiver AND the community.

Now I'm not a happy camper.

You guessed it, I'm one of those VERY late Version 8 purchasers who got a free V9 upgrade as it was so close to 9's launch.

UPDATED EMOTICON SEQUENCE:   ?

Thanks Jim, Matt, et al at JRiver........you guys rock.

[pietro]

My five cents here...
I recently found that I only have a v8 license that worked well with v9.1. I am a registered user since a very long time and for sure will keep using the best media product ever written.
But as many of you, I am a little confused by the upgrade policy here. At least I would have thought that some discount would be available for existing users.
I understand Nila's attempt to get an update for 30$ by upgrading v8 to v9 and then use the 1/2 price upgrade from v9 to v10. But I think that should be a regular option for v8 users. What do you think?
Thanks
- Pietro

[KingSparta]

My five cents here...
I recently found that I only have a v8 license that worked well with v9.1. I am a registered user since a very long time and for sure will keep using the best media product ever written.
But as many of you, I am a little confused by the upgrade policy here. At least I would have thought that some discount would be available for existing users.
I understand Nila's attempt to get an update for 30$ by upgrading v8 to v9 and then use the 1/2 price upgrade from v9 to v10. But I think that should be a regular option for v8 users. What do you think?
Thanks
- Pietro

Your Question Has Been Answered In Another Thread, And They Added An Option To Allow MJ8 Users To Upgrade to MC10 It Seems.

[LisaRCT]

Your Question Has Been Answered In Another Thread, And They Added An Option To Allow MJ8 Users To Upgrade to MC10 It Seems.

The following is quoted from this thread -->> http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=17482

Posted by: John Gateley  
Version 8 upgrade path added (in next build). The price will be $26.98, offered now at a discount: $12.99

 I have a question, Can I upgrade 'now' for 12.99 (if so, how), or do I need to wait for the next build?

Please wait for the next build ( 10.0.13 ).

[AndyCircuit]

I've bought MC 9.0 early beta for $24,98, now another $9,98 gives $34,96. I can't complain and will pay this $9,98 knowing Jim needs the money to pay a professional room cleaning service  
AC

[LisaRCT]

I can't complain and will pay this $9,98 knowing Jim needs the money to pay a professional room cleaning service  
AC

Musta been one helluva party  

[AndyCircuit]

Not exactly, but a late "St. Nicolas Day". We give small presents and put them into the shoes of the receiver at Dec. 6th morning
AC

[magisimo]

I'm the kind of customer you want. I'm the guy who paid for your product instead of getting a crack or using one of the many free alternatives.

You have my $40, but you certainly won't get any more, from me or my friends. You just lost a customer.

I read the forums here pretty regularly (several times a week) and I am always disturbed when I see a post like this.  These posts happen on a semi-regular basis and it seems that JRiver doesn't really care.
When customers have questions/complaints that JRiver doesn't like it just seems like they don't do anything to make their customer happy again.  I feel like these customers never get addressed when they have complaints that aren't easy to resolve.

For the record, I am a very happy customer and have no complaints about JRiver.  I also don't want to but into things that aren't my business.  I do feel,  however, that some customers here get treated unfairly and it would be in JRiver's best interest to do more about it.

Maybe I'm wrong and don't have all the info about specific problems.  Just wanted to throw a comment in there.

Keep up the good work on a great product.

- Michael

[Mirko]

I'm the kind of customer you want. I'm the guy who paid for your product instead of getting a crack or using one of the many free alternatives.

You have my $40, but you certainly won't get any more, from me or my friends. You just lost a customer.

I read the forums here pretty regularly (several times a week) and I am always disturbed when I see a post like this.  These posts happen on a semi-regular basis and it seems that JRiver doesn't really care.
When customers have questions/complaints that JRiver doesn't like it just seems like they don't do anything to make their customer happy again.  I feel like these customers never get addressed when they have complaints that aren't easy to resolve.

For the record, I am a very happy customer and have no complaints about JRiver.  I also don't want to but into things that aren't my business.  I do feel,  however, that some customers here get treated unfairly and it would be in JRiver's best interest to do more about it.

Maybe I'm wrong and don't have all the info about specific problems.  Just wanted to throw a comment in there.

Keep up the good work on a great product.

- Michael

Maybe it's because I'm german and not used to friendly behaviour of sales personal, but I do think that a company has to make a transition to which it can do things to make a customer happy and when to let the customer go away. It cannot be the goal of every company to make everyone happy, I think.
So if this specific customer decides to not use MC any more - okay with me and I would guess okay with JRiver, too.

Mirko

P.S. No intention to insult anyone was used during writing this

[magisimo]

Maybe it's because I'm german and not used to friendly behaviour of sales personal, but I do think that a company has to make a transition to which it can do things to make a customer happy and when to let the customer go away. It cannot be the goal of every company to make everyone happy, I think.
So if this specific customer decides to not use MC any more - okay with me and I would guess okay with JRiver, too.

Mirko

P.S. No intention to insult anyone was used during writing this

I agree with you Mirko.  However it seems that many responses to customer complaints are rather snippy and that they are brushed off to quickly.  I realize that every customer can't be pleased, but to me I feel that JRiver is to quick to dismiss its customers sometimes.  With this case the last thing that schizo said was "I'll be really disappointed if I'm abandoned here. "  JimH responded with "No, you don't need to buy it.  9.1 is a great program."
Schizo seemed like a very good potential customer.  There was no need to be dismissive.  I would think Jim would want to try and keep the kind of customer that just purchased his product and might make future purchases if he was satisfied.  
Schizo then replied that JimH's response didn't address his quesiton- which it didn't.  He then made a new post because no reply had been made from JRiver about his question.
JimH then replied to a different users post that was basically the same as Schizo's.  JimH's reply again ended with "Remember, too, that nobody is telling you that you have to buy it."

I just feel that a little more customer service is in order.  I hate to see potential loyal customers abandoned so easily.

Again, I have no personal complaints.

- Michael

[KingSparta]

Seems To Work, So Go Buy The Upgrade Using 10.0.13

Here Is The E-Mail You Should Get

Thank you for your purchase of Media Center 10 from JRiver, Inc. for $12.99

Your Registration Code is XXXXX-XXXXX-XXXXX-XXXXX-XXXXX-XXXXX.
Your Installation Key, good for two weeks, is attached to this message.
----------------------------------------------------------------

IMPORTANT -- Please read this entire message carefully:

Detailed instructions and answers to questions you may have are here:
http://www.mediajukebox.com/purchase
You may want to print the page and save it with your license.

SAVE THIS E-MAIL -- A license restore page is available here:
https://rover.jriver.com/cgi-bin/restore.cgi
You will need the registration code above.

INTERACT -- If you still have questions, please do not reply to this
e-mail.  Support is only available on-line at:
http://www.mediajukebox.com/interact
Both users and staff are available there.

We hope you enjoy using Media Jukebox. Please stop by the Interact
forum (above) to let us know how it goes.

Best Wishes from the Media Jukebox team at JRiver
----------------------------------------------------------------

BuyButton Receipt from JRiver, Inc.

Name:  XXXX XXXXX
Date:  December 10, 2003
Phone: XXX-XXX-XXXXX
E-mail: XXXXXX@XX.XX.com

[ctrevith]

Unless I'm missing something, the list of fixes/changes for ver 10,  is just a continuation of 9.1 with no significant upgrade in real features.  What's been added that warrants a major upgrade?

[nila]

Unless I'm missing something, the list of fixes/changes for ver 10,  is just a continuation of 9.1 with no significant upgrade in real features.  What's been added that warrants a major upgrade?

v10 is JUST starting it's life cycle.

Features are going to get added as it progresses along it's life.
Right now it's a program about to undergo sevre development which is why the reduced cost for buying now.

The final v10 wont be ready for a good few months and at that point it will have all the v10 features that are going to get added over it's lifetime.

If you want to contribute to these features and test them as they are implemented and help solve bugs then you buy it now and also get to enjoy the cheaper cost.

If you want rock solid software with no bugs and with all the feature enhancements then you wait till it's finished and pay the full price for a fully developed piece of software.

Choice is yours

[skeeterfood]

Since I "started" this thread, I figured I should at least applaud J River for reconsidering their upgrade policy for V8 users.  I for one grabbed the deal as soon as they released it and won't be looking back.  Heck, I would have paid the ~$26 upgrade price, but I'm not one to balk at a deal this good

I guess I need to start doing some beta testing to ensure J River keeps offering these great prices for those willing to help them out!

-John

[Downunder]

Ouch.......... just signed-up on 16th November for this software, and at $ 57 when having to use the lowly Australian peso and now already having to face an upgrade cost, I can't be happy with that !

.......But let's put this into some perspective .... this is the best software around, the support seems to be pretty good and the upgrade offer is just $ 10 bucks ... that's not sheepstations, it's a couple of beers and change if your lucky!

How much have I paid for the PC, the sound card, the receiver or the last tank of petrol (Gas) for the car ?

The $'s for the software is looking pretty good value by comparison, for the return !

It would be nice if it was free, but someone has to pay for the development of future enhancements.