Topic: Support for FLAC Tagging? (Read 27783 times)

Oblong · « **on:** January 09, 2004, 06:34:29 pm »

I know from following this board that J River has no plans to support playback of FLAC files, but I'm hoping you will consider support for tagging FLAC files.

I've recently invested in a SlimDevices SqueezeBox, and am migrating my music collection from APE to FLAC (currently the only supported lossless compression for the Squeezebox.)
I'd love to use MC10 to maintain the tags for the 120G of FLAC files I now have.

I was under the impression that FLAC files use Vorbis tags, the same as Ogg.
If this is the case, would it be a simple matter for MC10 to extend it's support or Vorbis tags to FLAC?

Thanks much.

Walter...

Oblong · « **Reply #1 on:** January 12, 2004, 04:05:35 pm »

Anyone?

Health Nut · « **Reply #2 on:** January 12, 2004, 04:19:33 pm »

I have heard great things about FLAC, I wonder why FLAC won;t be supported? Why support APE and Microsoft and not support FLAC?

JimH · « **Reply #3 on:** January 12, 2004, 04:43:27 pm »

We've got support for two lossless formats now. Support for FLAC could be done by FLAC developers.

Oblong · « **Reply #4 on:** January 12, 2004, 05:49:05 pm »

Jim,
Is is possible to extend MC's tag support to additional formats through plugins?

Walter...

Matt · « **Reply #5 on:** January 12, 2004, 05:52:56 pm »

The plugin architecture is documented here:

http://www.musicex.com/mediacenter/devzone.html

It's very straightforward to create an MC input / tagging plugin.

Oblong · « **Reply #6 on:** January 29, 2004, 06:59:07 pm »

I'm putting the finishing touches on my FLAC input plugin for MC.
Supports Playback, reading, and writing of FLAC (Vorbis) tags.

I posted a message in the developers forums asking for some help on a final small problem.
If I can get that resolved, I'll be ready to release a beta.

Walter...

Matt · « **Reply #7 on:** January 29, 2004, 07:21:26 pm »

Thanks Walter!

Check the other thread for a reply.

xen-uno · « **Reply #8 on:** January 29, 2004, 10:30:36 pm »

Cool! Looking forward to your beta. This will make more than a few happy around here...especially me!

10^-27

urlwolf · « **Reply #9 on:** January 30, 2004, 12:22:07 am »

Thanks, I will give it a try too.

rocketsauce · « **Reply #10 on:** January 30, 2004, 02:44:19 am »

Quisp · « **Reply #11 on:** January 30, 2004, 01:56:12 pm »

Walter,

Will your plugin support saving custom tags created in MC? It would be great to switch over to FLAC, it is supported better on the Mac platform too and that is where all my audio equipment hangs. I'm also thinking about getting a couple of SqueezeBox's so it's nice to know I don't have to start looking for other media software. Thanks for doing this.

Jon

Oblong · « **Reply #12 on:** January 30, 2004, 02:49:57 pm »

Jon,
Yes, the plugin supports any tag name MC cares to use.

I'm currently debugging support for internal storage of cover art

I'll probably post a link to download the beta this evening.

Walter...

Quisp · « **Reply #13 on:** January 30, 2004, 04:39:23 pm »

Walter,

Thanks, great news. I forgot to ask about the internal storage of cover art. Glad to hear support is in the works. Good luck!

Jon

Oblong · « **Reply #14 on:** January 30, 2004, 05:41:09 pm »

I've posted the beta plugin at:

http://www.monsterfang.com/MCinFLAC/

Feedback requested / welcome.

Walter...

Quisp · « **Reply #15 on:** January 30, 2004, 06:03:21 pm »

The current version of MC (10.0.57) doesn't seem to want to load the plugin.

Bryan · « **Reply #16 on:** January 30, 2004, 06:20:55 pm »

Wont' install on 10.0.50 either..

Oblong · « **Reply #17 on:** January 30, 2004, 06:23:13 pm »

Works ok for me with the latest MC.
Probably a dependency.

What OS are you running?

Do you have the following DLL's in your windows\system32 directory?
JRREADER.DLL
MSVCR71.DLL
MSVCR71D.DLL

Walter...

Bryan · « **Reply #18 on:** January 30, 2004, 06:55:57 pm »

Windows XP Pro SP1...

Yes to the JRReader.dll
No to the MSCR71 & MSCR71D dll's

Where do those come from? I'm up to date with Windows Update except the .NET framework..

Bryan

Oblong · « **Reply #19 on:** January 30, 2004, 07:03:23 pm »

I've updated the Zip the MJP on my site to include MSVCR71.dll and MSVCRD71.dll.
They will be installed in the windows\system32 directory.

Please try downloading and installing again.

Walter...

Bryan · « **Reply #20 on:** January 30, 2004, 07:34:30 pm »

That solved the install problem but I can't get it to work..

When I attempt to "import" a FLAC file (via explorer, right click, media center, import) MC tries to download a plugin and then says it can't find one. Import fails. Checking Plugin Manager for the FLAC plugin shows it there, but when I click on it, I get an error dialog "Cannot find input plug-in 'FLAC plugin for MC and MJ".

Oblong · « **Reply #21 on:** January 30, 2004, 07:52:42 pm »

Ah, the joys of beta software.

The errors you are getting are consistent with dependency problems (missing DLLs.)

The dependency walker tool I'm using shows the following dependencies:
JRREADER.DLL
KERNEL32.DLL
USER32.DLL
MSVCR71.DLL
MSVCR71D.DLL

We've verified the JRREADER.DLL, the KERNEL32 and USER32 dlls are system DLLs, so I think that only leaves the MSVCR71 dlls.

It's possible I screwed up the MJP installer, and it didn't install the MSVCR71 dlls properly.

Can you verify that MSVCR71.dll and MSVCR71D.dll are in your system32 directory, and that in_FLAC.dll is in your plugin directory.

If not, you can download the ZIP from my web site, and simply put the files in the appropriate places until I can fix the MJP.

Thanks for your testing efforts.

Thanks.

Walter...

Oblong · « **Reply #22 on:** January 30, 2004, 08:15:02 pm »

I've managed to remove the dependency on MSVCR71D.dll.
I've removed it from the MJP and ZIP. (Shrinks the download by 200k too.)

Walter...

Bryan · « **Reply #23 on:** January 30, 2004, 08:36:39 pm »

Ok, I got it installed after you removed that last dependency. Playback works too. The FLAC file I tested with was converted with DBPoweramp from an APE file. None of the tag information was passed to the FLAC file however.

Tagging in MC doesnt' seem to be working peroperly either.. It lets me tag the general and extended fields but they wont' save. Media Center failed to update the file. Update tags from library fails too. Delete from library and re-import shows none of the tag changes I made stuck.

Thanks for working on what alot of us want to see..

Bryan

Oblong · « **Reply #24 on:** January 30, 2004, 09:50:00 pm »

Bryan,

When you say the update tags from library fails, do you mean that MC gives you an error, or that the updates just don't stick?

Also, if you could download the flac distribution from the flac site and run the metaflac.exe utility against your flac file?
The syntax is:

metaflac --list myflacfile.flac

This will dump all the flac file metadata out.
I suspect that the FLAC file may not have a Vorbis Comments block.
I may not deal with that circumstance in my plugin.

If you cant run metaflac, is it possible you could send me one of the problem FLAC files?
I know the files are potentially huge.

Walter...

Bryan · « **Reply #25 on:** January 30, 2004, 10:05:10 pm »

MC generates the error and the changes don't stick.

I installed FLAC and ran the metaflac .. here are the results..

C:\Program Files\FLAC>metaflac --list test1.flac
METADATA block #0
type: 0 (STREAMINFO)
is last: false
length: 34
minumum blocksize: 4608 samples
maximum blocksize: 4608 samples
minimum framesize: 16 bytes
maximum framesize: 15997 bytes
sample_rate: 44100 Hz
channels: 2
bits-per-sample: 16
total samples: 13062420
MD5 signature: 8eb7351a825fd04b68eaac537d6569c6
METADATA block #1
type: 1 (PADDING)
is last: false
length: 32768
METADATA block #2
type: 4 (VORBIS_COMMENT)
is last: true
length: 40
vendor string: reference libFLAC 1.1.0 20030126
comments: 0

Oblong · « **Reply #26 on:** January 31, 2004, 01:49:24 am »

Bryan,
Thanks for the output of metaflac. Looks like my hunch was wrong.

Could you try the updated version at:

http://www.monsterfang.com/MCinFLAC/in_FLAC_Logging.mjp

It contains logging code that I hope will help me track down the problems.
It will create a log file called in_FLAC_FileInfo.log in the root of your c: drive.
Also, be warned, It will also create a huge log file when playing back files.

Run it, reproduce the problem, and email me the log file at inflac _at_ monsterfang.
Also, if you are willing, I can set you up with ftp access to upload one of the FLAC files, email me for a login.

Walter...

lidocaineus · « **Reply #27 on:** February 01, 2004, 11:51:07 pm »

Hey thanks for working on this plugin! I'm going to d/l it and try it tonight.

Let me be the first to tell you that when you get it fully functional, the legion of audiophiles out there (that can't use APE because of the weird licensing restrictions) will love you!

Oblong · « **Reply #28 on:** February 02, 2004, 04:20:18 am »

Just to follow up:
Looks like Bryan's issues were resolved, perhaps related to a reboot.
The version currently available on the web site (0.3) is a minor update to the initial release in that it handles FLAC files with no pre-existing vorbis comment and/or padding block.
If you downloaded the in_FLAC_Logging version please download the latest, as the logging version will run more slowly, and create large log files.

If you have downloaded and are unable to get it working, please let me know. I'd like to get a stable release out next weekend (perhaps including a fix for the erroneous bitrate reporting.)

Is there any interest in playback of FLAC files with 8 or 24 bits per sample? The current plugin doesn't support them, but I can look into adding support if someone would find it useful.

J River:
Any hint as to how to add FLAC to the "Tools/Import Media" option?

Walter...

wonmug · « **Reply #29 on:** February 02, 2004, 05:37:55 am »

Quote from: Oblong on February 02, 2004, 04:20:18 am

J River:
Any hint as to how to add FLAC to the "Tools/Import Media" option?

OK, I was wondering about that. Good to see you are working on that, and I'm sure the J River people will cooperate in working this out. Also, FLAC should show up in the list of files to associate with MC. Other than that, the plug-in seems to be working well. Thanks much for contributing your time and effort, Walter.

Matt · « **Reply #30 on:** February 02, 2004, 08:47:57 am »

Quote

J River:
Any hint as to how to add FLAC to the "Tools/Import Media" option?

We have to do it, but it requires us hosting the plugin so it downloads on demand. Let's wait until you feel mostly done with your work on it and then we'll get this.

Thanks!

brianblank · « **Reply #31 on:** February 02, 2004, 10:00:22 am »

Thanks for working on this! Now I have to save some $ and buy a StreamBox :) I will download it today and play with it this week.

Quote from: Oblong on February 02, 2004, 04:20:18 am

Is there any interest in playback of FLAC files with 8 or 24 bits per sample? The current plugin doesn't support them, but I can look into adding support if someone would find it useful.

I would like to see 24bit support.

Brian

Oblong · « **Reply #32 on:** February 02, 2004, 05:06:00 pm »

Brian,

I've got a new version that should support 8/16/24/32 bit (although FLAC doesn't currently support 32 bit.)
Do you have any 24 bit files I could test with?

Walter...

brianblank · « **Reply #33 on:** February 04, 2004, 03:06:34 pm »

Try one of the FLACs on this page

http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-download-options.php?collectionid=skb2003-02-15.dpa4022.flac24&id=3424

xen-uno · « **Reply #34 on:** February 17, 2004, 05:16:42 pm »

Oblong...

What's the latest on this? Is it MC ready for a flac extension? Great work BTW.

10^-27

Oblong · « **Reply #35 on:** February 17, 2004, 05:38:23 pm »

xeno,

Thanks for your kind words.

I must admit, I haven't had much time to work on it in the last couple of weeks.

There are two outstanding issues I'm aware of:

1. Still working on support for 8 bit and 24 bit files. My initial tests have been unsuccessful. I'm not sure what format MC expects 24 bit audio data in. I probably need some assistance from J River. Matt? Any source examples showing 24/32 bit audio support?

2. MC expects the contents of the "date" tag to be the number of days since Jan 1, 1900, but EAC stores the year. As a result, MC interprets this as ~1905.

Otherwise, I haven't had a whole lot of feedback, so either not a lot of people are using it, or it's working ok.

Those of you using the plugin...what about it? is it ready for prime time?

Walter...

Matt · « **Reply #36 on:** February 18, 2004, 08:59:02 am »

Quote

1. Still working on support for 8 bit and 24 bit files. My initial tests have been unsuccessful. I'm not sure what format MC expects 24 bit audio data in. I probably need some assistance from J River. Matt? Any source examples showing 24/32 bit audio support?

I'm pretty sure it's:

8-bit: unsigned signed bytes (0 to 255)
24-bit: signed 24-bit integer

If I'm wrong, you'll know it right away because it'll sound like static.

Quote

2. MC expects the contents of the "date" tag to be the number of days since Jan 1, 1900, but EAC stores the year. As a result, MC interprets this as ~1905.

If you don't handle MF_DATE, MC will ask you about MF_YEAR.

xen-uno · « **Reply #37 on:** February 18, 2004, 01:09:12 pm »

Oblong,

Playback thru MC is very solid on 16 bit 44.1 kHz flacs ...

Along with the bitrate calc / year tag problem you mentioned, I am seeing a problem with the Name (aka Title) tag as shown here...

which are correctly shown in WinAmp here...

where the original file was encoded with EAC & Flac 1.1 using this string...

%s -6 -T "artist=%a" -T "title=%t" -T "album=%g" -T "comment=EAC=>FLAC 1.1=>Vorbis 1.01 @ q8" -T "genre=%m" -T "date=%y" -T "tracknumber=%n"

Problem is typ of all flacs in MC.

10^-27

jimwhite · « **Reply #38 on:** February 18, 2004, 02:03:01 pm »

any way to get Tools/ImportMedia to import the Flac files?

?

Jim

xen-uno · « **Reply #39 on:** February 18, 2004, 02:12:26 pm »

If it's not working, it's because the Import Media function doesn't have a flac entry under the Extensions section. You can still import them by using File>Open Media File, find your flacs and select them all, then go to Playing Now, select all the files, right click and select Import Into Library.

10^-27

edit: another way...

Open up an explorer window, go to your media dir and select all your flacs then right click on one of them and select Media Center>Import

Oblong · « **Reply #40 on:** February 18, 2004, 07:31:25 pm »

I've posted an updated version (v0.4) of the plugin.

http://www.monsterfang.com/MCinFLAC

New / Changed:
It offers experimental support for 8 and 24 bit per sample FLAC files.
Workaround for DATE/Year tag issues (no more 1905!)
Maps MC Name tag to Vorbis TITLE tag. (thanks xen-uno)
Source code is now available for download.

Could someone with access to audio hardware supporting 24 bits per sample test out this new version?
My development system will not playback 24 bit files.

As always, feedback is welcome.

Walter...

Bryan · « **Reply #41 on:** February 18, 2004, 09:59:43 pm »

I've got an M-Audio 24/96 card, would this work? How do I rip some 24bit files? I use EAC and know it pretty well but I've not noticed any options for creating 24 bit files and I've never ripped any FLAC files with it.. So I'll need some quick help setting up EAC for flac. Point me in the right direction and I'll be glad to give it a try.. Would I need to start wtih a 24bit CD ?

Bryan

Oblong · « **Reply #42 on:** February 18, 2004, 11:21:53 pm »

Bryan,

The M-Audio should fit the bill.
brianblank posted a link earlier in the thread to some 24 bit flacs, although the download is rather huge.

http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-download-options.php?collectionid=skb2003-02-15.dpa4022.flac24&id=3424

Walter...

Oblong · « **Reply #43 on:** February 18, 2004, 11:23:08 pm »

Oops,
Looks like I left the debug logging enabled in 0.4.
I've posted a v0.41 that turns it off.

Sorry 'bout that.

Walter...

xen-uno · « **Reply #44 on:** February 19, 2004, 11:14:21 am »

Oblong,

Nice work...all fields display correctly (other than bitrate). Can't help on 8/24 bit flacs. Your plugin handles 48 kHz flacs just fine, BTW. I would say that the inclusion of the plugin into MC is very close (pending outcome of 24 bit tests). Have you entertained thoughts of dev'ing a Enc_flac.dll for the complete MC/flac solution?

10^-27

edit: Houston, we have a problem...

Using MC to edit tags destroys the flac tags. The flac is not corrupted (still playable in MC), just the tags are funked up. Once MC has edited the tags, you can no longer bring up the file info on that file in WinAmp (nor start it from the WA library, but it will still play in WA if file is initiated elsewhere...ie explorer). WinAmp library shows "flac" in the Album tag and entries in Track #, Genre, Year, and Comment (probably) have been wiped out. Best way is to see for yourself...put a few flac copies in some temp dir, add them to your MC library, then do some tag editing***. Take a look at the flacs afterwards with WA (2.91) and coalson/x-fixers WA flac plugin which is available here...

http://rarewares.hydrogenaudio.org/files/in_flac.zip

***editor's note: I really REALLY dislike tag editing in MC (from the AW, but is tolerable from the Library View) and will pray tonite for the return of the MJ style front end. Set your brain to telepathic channel 86 (freq: 8.6 THz...think of it as organic IRC) if you feel similarly. It's a great channel for those that are into hopeless causes.

Oblong · « **Reply #45 on:** February 19, 2004, 01:00:14 pm »

xen-uno,
I'm unable to repro your problem.
I don't have WA 2.91 to test, but I used WA 5 with the plugin you linked, and all seemed well.

Could you download the FLAC tools from flac.sourceforge.net and run metaflac.exe --list <myflac.flac> against the file and post the results?
If you are unable to run metaflac against the file, could you email it to the address posted on my site?

Everyone else... You may want to tread lightly with the plugin until we can get to the bottom of xen-uno's problem.

Thanks...

Walter..

xen-uno · « **Reply #46 on:** February 19, 2004, 01:52:13 pm »

Forget about it! (aka Houston, we have a go...)

Your plugin is fine (no tag corruption problems and I've edited my previous post), so ignore my red alert. I had edited the flac tags with MC (including the filename) and DID NOT update WinAmp's library. WA's file info wasn't working and the file wouldn't play cause the file (by it's original name) no longer existed! What a maroon I am. Know of some good Computer Usage 101 classes? I must need a refresher course (none needed on metaflac...thanks for the usage tip). So...what's your standing on Enc_flac.dll?

10^-27

Oblong · « **Reply #47 on:** February 19, 2004, 02:09:56 pm »

xen-uno,
Glad to hear there isn't a problem after all.

Regarding the creation of a FLAC encoder for MC:
I'd love to write an Enc_flac.dll, but J River doesn't currently publish an encoder SDK.
Matt indicated they were willing to create an SDK, but that it probably wasn't going to happen now.
He suggested I "remind" them later.

Walter...

nsteele · « **Reply #48 on:** February 19, 2004, 07:09:32 pm »

Your plugin works great!! Thanks for taking the initiative to do this for all of the rest of us who have been dying for FLAC usability with MC.

Oblong · « **Reply #49 on:** February 19, 2004, 08:11:23 pm »

I've just released v0.5 of the FLAC plugin.
Changes include:

Fixed broken bitrate calculation.
Changes to MC<->Vorbis tag mapping (Please see release notes for details)

Available at http://www.monsterfang.com/MCinFLAC

Walter...

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Author Topic: Support for FLAC Tagging? (Read 27783 times)