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Author Topic: OT: Santa Fe, New Mexico  (Read 3898 times)

JimH

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OT: Santa Fe, New Mexico
« on: May 03, 2004, 08:16:25 am »

I just got back from a long weekend in Santa Fe.  The pictures are here:

http://www.jriver.com/~jriver/2004/santafe/

Pictures include the Santa Fe airport, the town, the Taos Pueblo, the Taos ski area, and the pueblo at San Ildefanso.

We also flew over the town and area in a small plane just for fun.

For those from other parts of the world, New Mexico is in the Southwest part of the United States and has a high desert landscape with some nice mountains.  It has 5 or 6 small Indian villages nearby.  They are called pueblos and each one is unique, even to the point of language spoken.  The area has a very old history of trade with a lot of Spanish influence.  The architecture is unusual for the U.S. and uses the adobe (mud) brick and heavy timbers.

The town is only about 65,000 people, but it is an important art center with more than 100 galleries.

All in all, it is a very unusual and interesting place.  Highly recommended.
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KingSparta

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Re:OT: Santa Fe, New Mexico
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2004, 08:23:25 am »

my only question is: Did you buy it?

http://www.jriver.com/~jriver/2004/santafe/DSC00264.JPG

some of them are nice pictures for desktop backgrounds.
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JimH

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Re:OT: Santa Fe, New Mexico
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2004, 08:36:44 am »

I wish.

I have bigger pictures if you want any -- 8 megapixel.
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KingSparta

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Re:OT: Santa Fe, New Mexico
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2004, 08:44:19 am »

I wish.

I have bigger pictures if you want any -- 8 megapixel.

so you bought a new camera too?

the pictures might have been better at 1600, but The pictures look fine in full screen.

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bjsolem

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Re:OT: Santa Fe, New Mexico
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2004, 09:28:25 am »

I have bigger pictures if you want any -- 8 megapixel.
so you bought a new camera too?

How is the new camera?

I think that PC magazine said the new Sony 8 megapixel was actually worse than some of the 6 megapixel cameras they have seen, colors washed out I think.

A friend of mine who is a professional photographer said a while back that he had heard that 6 megapixels would almost equal the quality/resolution of film.  How much further do they need to go?
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DocLotus

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Re:OT: Santa Fe, New Mexico
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2004, 03:49:01 pm »

And... don't forget the great weather. ;D
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Re:OT: Santa Fe, New Mexico
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2004, 04:08:23 pm »

Quote
How much further do they need to go?

don't know i think my 4 mega pix was plenty
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DocLotus

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Re:OT: Santa Fe, New Mexico
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2004, 04:47:47 pm »

Regarding the new Sony DSC-F828 eight mega pixel camera... I just bought one two weeks ago.

After reading many, many highly in-depth reviews, I still decided that it was the one for me.

Other 8 mp cameras I was seriously considering were the Nikon 8700 (slower lens & slower response), Nikon D70 (great DSLR but no movable screen like the Sony), Olympus 8080 (nice but limited zoom range with adaptors, also it was not as secure in the hand as the Sony).

What sold me on the Sony was...

* Fantastic moving back (the lens pivots separately from the camera back) allowing all of the controls to always be in view.  This is wonderful for waist-level or overhead picture taking.

* Very fast Zeiss T* lens (F2.0 - 2.8).  All the others started at either 2.8 or 3.5.

* Fairly fast turn on & good response time (for a digicam).

* Great menu system... very straight forward & easy to set up & use plus is very readable with nice fonts.

* Laser focusing in complete darknss (no one else does this).

* Night Shot & Night Framing in complete darkness (again no one else does this).

* Has one of the longest battery life's of any digicam.

* The best feel in the hand of any digicam on the market.

* It simply has the best overall layout of any current digicam on the market.

* It simply has the best overall feature set of any current digicam on the market.

Yes, I know about the so-called image quality problem with the 828 but it is not with image quality, sharpness, color, saturation or anything else that effects the actual picture quality.  It relates to the same thing that virtually all 8 mp cameras are currently experiencing; that is purple fringing around very bright lights (I have yet to actually see it happen in some 500 images that I have taken so far).

The other problem with all of the new 8 mp digicams is related to noise at higher ISO settings.  Yes, that is a problem at all ISO's from 200 & above but there is a software solution that completely removes all the noise without touching any of the image elements & that is a program called Noise Ninja.  It simply works!.

So just why do the 8 mp digicams have purple fringing & noise problems?  The answer is fairly simple, Sony, Nikon, Olympus & others have pushed the 2/3 CCD photocell to its limits.

I have written a document on the subject & here is a portion of it...

What Is Digital Noise...

* It is all the noise generated by the camera electronics plus the signal to noise ratio coming from the CCD photo cell itself.

* The end results are very visible amounts of noise on the final image.  This can be so bad at the higher ISO settings in some cases as to make the image totally useless as no photo editing software can get rid of noise over a certain level.

How Is Photo Cell Noise Generated?

* All photocells relay on the number of light photons hitting each pixel of a photocell to produce a voltage that can be sent to the camera electronics to be processed as an image.

* The more photons that hit a pixel the higher the voltage and hence the higher the signal to the base noise level (S/N) of the photocell.

* The 8 mega pixel 2/3 CCD cells have only 2.3 microns of area per pixel for light photons to strike... very small indeed.  This is why all the current crop of 2/3 8 MP cameras exhibit a high noise problem at any ISO setting above 100.

* Most Pro level DSLR camera ISO's start at 200 and go up to 1600 with 800 generally providing a fairly clean noise free image.  This means that cameras with a large photo cell provide 2 - 4 additional F stops over all consumer digicams.  In other words, the pro camera can get that low light shot that the consumer camera can not.  It also means the pro camera is ideal for any fast action such as sports or auto racing.  Few, if any, consumer cameras even have a sports mode because they are too slow to respond to fast movement.

* Add the photo cell noise to the cameras electronics noise and you can sometimes end up with a very bad image that is full of noise.

How do I get rid of the noise?

* Use a lower ISO speed setting (ISO is similar to film camera ISO or the old ASA settings).

* Put more light on the subject thereby providing more photons of light on each pixel of the photo cell.

* Most better photo editing software will take out most noise.  However, there is a limit to removing existing noise.  Many (if not all) cheaper consumer point & shoot and most mid priced prosumer cameras all exhibit a problem with noise at any ISO setting other then the lowest one or two settings.  Photo editing software usually can not resolve the noise problem if the original was shot with a high ISO setting.

* Upgrade to a better camera with a larger photo cell.  Remember... larger photo cells have more area per pixel to gather more light photons which in turns produces a higher voltage & a much better S/N ratio hence a much cleaner image.

Sooo... The bottom line is I knew what I was buying into with the Sony 828 but it is one lovely camera & I know how to get around the noise problem (with noise Ninja).

Sony also has a very broad selection of extremely high grade accessories for the 828 & I bought most of them.  I also bought three additional lenses for the 828 that lets me go from 12.5mm all the way to 400mm which covers all my requirements.  I paid about 1 ½ times more for the accessories then I did for the camera.

I really love this camera. ;D
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JimH

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Re:OT: Santa Fe, New Mexico
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2004, 07:50:14 pm »

Doc,
Great comments.  Thanks.  I'll have to re-read later.  I bought the same camera, not for nearly such good reasons, but I love it.

Jim
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rocketsauce

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Re:OT: Santa Fe, New Mexico
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2004, 08:17:10 pm »

I was born and raised in Santa Fe. It's a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't wanna live there.  ;)

Rob
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DocLotus

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Re:OT: Santa Fe, New Mexico
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2004, 08:30:15 pm »

Too high-brow ?
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LonWar

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Re:OT: Santa Fe, New Mexico
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2004, 09:12:43 pm »

I wish.

I have bigger pictures if you want any -- 8 megapixel.

Can you post a 8 Megapixel? My wife wants to see what the difference is...

Thanks,
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DocLotus

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Re:OT: Santa Fe, New Mexico
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2004, 09:16:04 pm »

Compared to what size ?
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JimH

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Re:OT: Santa Fe, New Mexico
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2004, 10:05:47 pm »

Can you post a 8 Megapixel? My wife wants to see what the difference is...
I'm uploading a few.  It's still going on, but they will be here when it finishes.

www.jriver.com/~jriver/2004/santafe2

The screen you view them on may be the limiting factor, however.  A 15 inch LCD is 1024x768 or a little under 1 megapixel, for example.  A print from the photos might show the difference better.

We didn't use a tripod, so some of the pictures are better than others.
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LonWar

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Re:OT: Santa Fe, New Mexico
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2004, 06:45:00 am »

Nice.... Thanks
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Re:OT: Santa Fe, New Mexico
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2004, 09:35:19 am »

Woo hoo!  Santa Fe!  Raised there as well but also wouldn't want to live there.  Too expensive for such a small spec of earth. Sometimes I miss it and think of moving back but then I visit and that goes away real quick.

Great photos!

James
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DocLotus

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Re:OT: Santa Fe, New Mexico
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2004, 01:50:57 pm »

Nothing wrong with those shots ;D

Looking really good 8)

Cool ::)
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JimH

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Re:OT: Santa Fe, New Mexico
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2004, 01:56:15 pm »

I was born and raised in Santa Fe. It's a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't wanna live there.
Hi Rob,
Just curious.  Why not?
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JustinChase

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Re:OT: Santa Fe, New Mexico
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2004, 04:46:44 pm »

8 mp pics look great, Jim.

I also have been trying to decide what camera to purchase.  I currently own a Toshiba 4mp Point & Shoot, and like the pictures it takes, but I have almost no control over it.  I recently decided to buck up and buy a Digital Rebel 6.3 mp dSLR.  Canon makes great cameras, and lenses, and I found a slightly used one for $850 delivered.

I took some photography courses for a couple of years, about 10 years ago, and decided I couldn't make enough money as a photographer, so I quit to do something I completely don't like at all.  Not a smart move.  Never make a career decision based on how much money you can make.  It's just not worth it.

So now I'm selling everything to travel the world, and figured it just made sense to take a nice SLR camera and a couple of good lenses with me.  I really like photography, and I think having a great camera will make my trip so much more enjoyable.  Yeah, sure it would be great to make some cash selling my pictures (and stories) to magazines, but it's more about how photography makes you really take notice of your surroundings, and isn't that why people travel, to see new and different things?

Anyway, I'll stop babbling now.  Enjoy your new toys Jim and Doc.  I'm certainly enjoying mine.

PS  Any chance MC will become more 'image friendly' now that Jim has a nice new camera to play with?
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Matt

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Re:OT: Santa Fe, New Mexico
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2004, 05:00:43 pm »

Quote
I also have been trying to decide what camera to purchase.  I currently own a Toshiba 4mp Point & Shoot, and like the pictures it takes, but I have almost no control over it.  I recently decided to buck up and buy a Digital Rebel 6.3 mp dSLR.  Canon makes great cameras, and lenses, and I found a slightly used one for $850 delivered.

I recently got the same camera and just love it.  The giant lenses and big camera make me look like a goon, but I'm used to it.  It's been fun, because a digital SLR is something I wanted since digital cameras were first available.

Quote
I took some photography courses for a couple of years, about 10 years ago, and decided I couldn't make enough money as a photographer, so I quit to do something I completely don't like at all.  Not a smart move.  Never make a career decision based on how much money you can make.  It's just not worth it.

So now I'm selling everything to travel the world, and figured it just made sense to take a nice SLR camera and a couple of good lenses with me.  I really like photography, and I think having a great camera will make my trip so much more enjoyable.  Yeah, sure it would be great to make some cash selling my pictures (and stories) to magazines, but it's more about how photography makes you really take notice of your surroundings, and isn't that why people travel, to see new and different things?

Anyway, I'll stop babbling now.  Enjoy your new toys Jim and Doc.  I'm certainly enjoying mine.

That's amazing.  If you ever feel like sharing a more in-depth bio about how you arrived at selling everything to walk around the world, I'd be quite interested.  I'm sure everyone else would be too.

Quote
PS  Any chance MC will become more 'image friendly' now that Jim has a nice new camera to play with?

Hmm... we think it is image friendly.  Start a thread if there are things you want to see.  It's all I use for my photos. (minus editing of course)
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DocLotus

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Re:OT: Santa Fe, New Mexico
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2004, 05:01:21 pm »

Yeh... More ACDSee like would be simply great ;D
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JustinChase

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Re:OT: Santa Fe, New Mexico
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2004, 05:10:17 pm »

Well Matt,

I'll be in Minneappolis on Friday (I'm going to a seminar Friday Night & Saturday) & I already told Jim I'd stop by to see you guys.  I'm gonna try to get there around 4pm, so as no to interrupt too much 'work' time.

We can compare notes on our camera's.  Maybe we can discuss some of the image requests then.  But to be fair to everyone in the forums, I'll still put everything in writing, so people can comment on what they think also.

I will also try to take some time to try to explain how I got to this point in my life.  It's nothing really earth shattering, but i'd certainly be happy to share with everyone.

Also, when I had mentioned coming to visit you guys, KingSparta mentioned I needed to be sure to bring you a gallon of milk.  I'm happy to do so, but I just have to know why, it's such a strange comment, I must know.

Finally, what does Jim drink.  I offered to buy him a drink a few weeks ago, and I want to be true to my word, but I don't know what he likes.  Any ideas?

Thanks
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rocketsauce

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Re:OT: Santa Fe, New Mexico
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2004, 02:03:37 am »

Woo hoo!  Santa Fe!  Raised there as well but also wouldn't want to live there.  Too expensive for such a small spec of earth. Sometimes I miss it and think of moving back but then I visit and that goes away real quick.

Great photos!

James

Yeah, I sometimes think I miss it, but then I go visit my mom. After about a week I can't wait to get back to L.A.  As for expensive, I think the housing market there is about on par with SoCal.


I was born and raised in Santa Fe. It's a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't wanna live there.
Hi Rob,
Just curious.  Why not?

Oh, it's not that bad. My mom still lives there, as well as an aunt who runs an art gallery. I just remember growing up I always wanted to live in a big city. I was envious of those kids on the old Family Affair sitcom living in that cool New York penthouse. Looking back, though, I'm glad I grew up in a small town. Also, I've grown quite accustomed to the California weather. I really have no use for the cold weather and snow in the winter...well maybe for skiiing. :)

Rob
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