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[Matt]

We're looking for good ideas for how to merge the graphical-style Library Browser with the more classic Media Library view.

One important goal is that we don't want to add visual clutter or complexity.

We'll give the owner of the winning solution a free old-school Media Jukebox t-shirt.

Thanks for any help.

[edit by JimH -- changes are now implemented in MC 11.1.074.]

[Myron]

Why?

Each view has its purpose as well as it's own pros and cons.  I'd rather see them remain separate or at least have the option to retain the separate views we now have in 11.0.

I'd also rather see the weaker parts (like the UPnP server and handling of internet radio) of 11.0 get some needed updating before messing with the parts that already work well.

I've always been a strong proponent of the "form follows function" school of thought.

Just my $0.02......

[Matt]

Why?

No soup (read t-shirt) for you.

[Myron]

No soup (read t-shirt) for you.

As Jerry used to say: "That's a shame" 

(Since we're quoting Seinfeld episodes)

[Mr ChriZ]

I think this is a good idea.  At the very least as I've mentioned before
the toolbar video,images, music, tab-buttons should be merged with the Library browsers
version.

I'm afraid I'm not very graphical so I'm not going to draw it but one Idea had that
 may or may not work is in the Media Library to have a button for each View Item, next to the title for the view item that would take the full pane, or maybe a hovering pane, to a graphical Library browser view of that information?

[Mr ChriZ]

Second Idea, Don't change anything just
move it around abit in the tree so that it becomes
-Audio
  -Artist Album
  -File Type
  -Disk Location
  -Graphical View

-Video
  -Calendar
  -...
  -Graphical View

Etc
Which leaves the tree looking neater?

[Alex B]

I made my version a couple of days ago, but forgot to post it.

Clicking an album thumbnail would show the details view of the album contents.

I prefer the album thumbnails view over the library browser because the views are configurable.



In this view the thumbnail size is 160x160 and I use this "Pick files to show" rule:
[Media Type]=[Audio] -[Image File]=[] -[CUE track]=[Y (source)] [Lonely]=[].

I could make a new mockup with the buttons and configuration options. It would be  something like this:

[______________]   [______________]   [______________]   [______________]   

Check the previous thread out for details: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=29607.0

[LonWar]

Please, Whatever you do,   DO NOT remove my panes...... That was the selling point when I bought 9.1


Thanks.... Maybe a picture of what you are thinking?

[bennyd]

I like the current Library Browser view as it is but it should be configurable like the Media Library view.

So be able to add/remove custom fields and to have multiple Library Browser views as we have now multiple  library views.

[jgreen]

Silly question time:  Is there any way to loosen up the controls a bit, so that skin artists can experiment with versions?  I'd rather judge a GUI by trial-and-error.

My suspicion is that the new GUI needs to include the tree function, and still allow the dinosaurs among us (me) to use the old panes, which I love.

[interbeat]

My 2 cents...

Media Library and Library Browser essentially do the same thing, so to merge them is a good idea for the sake of simplicity. I reckon most people predominently use one or the other - I use Media Library because it's customisable, though I prefer Library Browser because it looks nicer.

Rather than try to merge them, I think it would be better to have just one - the operation of which is determined through options; i.e. you choose to have Media Library work like it does now or how Library Browser does. "Library Browser view mode" would reflect how Media Library is set up (the View Schemes), making it customisable which would cause it to show exactly what Theatre View does.

So, to summarise:
- You set up your View Schemes
- You can then view them in "Media Library" or "Library Browser / Theatre View" mode.
- Nice and simple!

Ed.

[bennyd]

My 2 cents...

Media Library and Library Browser essentially do the same thing, so to merge them is a good idea for the sake of simplicity. I reckon most people predominently use one or the other - I use Media Library because it's customisable, though I prefer Library Browser because it looks nicer.

Rather than try to merge them, I think it would be better to have just one - the operation of which is determined through options; i.e. you choose to have Media Library work like it does now or how Library Browser does. "Library Browser view mode" would reflect how Media Library is set up (the View Schemes), making it customisable which would cause it to show exactly what Theatre View does.

So, to summarise:
- You set up your View Schemes
- You can then view them in "Media Library" or "Library Browser / Theatre View" mode.
- Nice and simple!

Ed.

exactly

[Dutch Peter]

1. Make Library browser more configurable.

2. Make it possible to use the keybaord after clicking a tab.

Now it works like this:
Click TAB Artists, Click on first artist, used keybaord to find right artist.

I would like the second step to be removed.

3. Make it possible to define defaults per Split View. I would very much like to start with Playing now in the first view and Library Browser in the second.

[pank2002]

I'd rather see something like this:






I never use the Library browser. It's also very slow on older computers (as in 1.1 Ghz and 256 mb of Ram running Win2k).

Pane should be kept. They are great!

[Jaguu]

Completely agree with pank2002.

This kind of tile view displayrd by pank2002 is really missing.

I also never use library browser. It doesn't reflect my personal view schemes and is not configurable at all.

 

[JustinChase]

I'm not very graphical either, but I'm thinking something like pank has shown, but where he has the Artist filed above, show it like you now show the library browser.  In other words, instead of a simple list, the list would show the album art and statistics just like the library browser does now.

Where he shows the album, use what alex has and show all the albums thumbnailed.  I'm not sure how that would work with other viewschemes, with other fields, like file type, or rating or whatever; maybe fields that won't allow thumbs easily can stay as they are, a simple list.

Either way, as you drill down, the bottem view (pane) should show the thumbs large with a list, as pank has shown.

Does that make any sense?  If not, I'll try to paste something together.

In the meantime, why did you remove the a-z selection on the library browser?  I used it all the time.  I have 1700 artists, 1000 albums and 40 genres.  It takes a while to scroll down with so many.  Can it be put back until this is decided, please?

[Tolga]

This message unifies ideas from media library view, theater view, and library view.

definitions:
 output: list of results (i.e. list of albums, list of songs etc). Current bottom part of media library view.
 filters: things you select to limit the list output records. Current top part of media library view.

-----------------------
3 ideas (feel free mix and match):
-----------------------

1. graphical Filtering
Motivation: you want to focus to your target using graphical clues instead of text. (i.e. like in theater view).

Change media view so that the album covers can be used in filters not just in outputs. The idea is that I can add an album filter tab, but specify that it will show graphical entries (cover arts) instead of album names. For this to work, you should be able to place this filter to cover most of the screen.
  

• advanced subidea:
  you could use graphical entries for any other field.  This is the exact idea used in creating theater view thumbnails. For example the graphical view of artist filter would list for each artist a composition of the coverarts for that artist (first few cover arts). These composite thumbnails should be probably dynamic based on the other filters. (calculating the first 4 thumbnails should not be very expensive)
  
  
• more advanced subidea:  
  you could a composite filter window. An artist/album compositive filter would provide a window that acts just like the Artist/Album theater view. You first select artist from a artist thumbnail view, then the album, but on the same window. Note that the same idea is also used for the current folders filter. When you select a folder by entering it, you make a filtering but at the same time change the filter window.
  

2. output summaries:

Provide templates for listing output in aggregated record chunks. For example you should be able to say, show summarize records by album name and album cover. The idea is, the records will have some aggregated properties that is shown only once for each chunk, but then for each individual record, you could have additional properties. Just like switching between thumbnail and list views, you would have the option of turning the details (individual records) on or off.

3. Freedom in screen usage
1. provide more relaxed way or organizing the filters and the output window. I.e. multiple filters on the same column (assume that they are not long), or a graphical filter that takes all of the left half (or bottom, or top) of the screen. This may create problems with current hiearchical way the filters work. (i.e. selecting a filter on the left restricts filters on the right but not visa versa). The most general case is to let the user specify how the filters should depend on each other and have predefined views for the beginners. I don't expect this general solution. So the solution maybe more specific. (i.e. no dependency on the filters that are on the same column, but the regular dependency order is from left to right and top to bottom).

[Matt]

There's a first cut here:
ftp://ftp.jriver.com/pub/downloads/music/tmp/MC_LibraryConcept.zip

Let us know what you think, but please don't report bugs yet.  Look at any Media Library view to see the changes. (Library Browser would be removed since it's included in Media Library)

Thanks for any feedback.

[JustinChase]

Is there a way to go back if I hate it?

[JimH]

Is there a way to go back if I hate it?

Backup the Mediacenter.exe file from your 11.1.73 install and then copy this file to the install directory.  Copy the backup back if you aren't 100% completely satisfied.

[Matt]

Is there a way to go back if I hate it?

With that attitude, maybe you should just hold off

(reinstalling any build will replace the Media Center.exe posted here)

[KingSparta]

Maybe a picture of what you are thinking?

did you ever see there picture of the action window when they were thinking about it? it was in chalk

[JimH]

                         MC

        xx xx xx     ^
            
               x>>>>o

[KingSparta]

ASCII Screens, Got To Love Technology

I Don't Seen Anything Broken With The Current Scheme (Other Than Search Is Cleared) when you move from views.

I long for the MJ6 Search Box Again, Woo Is Me

[Mr ChriZ]

There's a first cut here:
ftp://ftp.jriver.com/pub/downloads/music/tmp/MC_LibraryConcept.zip

Let us know what you think, but please don't report bugs yet.  Look at any Media Library view to see the changes. (Library Browser would be removed since it's included in Media Library)

Thanks for any feedback.

I like this.  It might be nice if the buttons were customizable in some fashion, depending on
how complex it ended up.

[LonWar]

I really don't see the point.... Sorry guy's. Why not just keep both the way it was...

I don't mean to sound like a jerk.....

[JimH]

Progress marches on.

[datdude]

I like it!

A Few Things though.

1) I use a laptop so I am losing more and more viewing space from top to bottom.  A feature I have always wanted is to minimize the display area ala winamp style across the top of the screen.  This would be necessary with the additional rows of data taken up by the 'buttons'. 

2) I like how it follows your existing view scheme but should have at least default to the end with an 'album' botton as currently my view scheme does not include that in the panes since I can browse albums by thumbnails.  If a user does have album listed in their view scheme, then the default is not included.

3) Of course I would still like a to have vertical split screens and a pop up or some way to view tracks when clickining on an album thumbnail.

Great job though

[jgreen]

Will somebody please post a screenshot so those of us (me) who are afraid to try new things can at least feel involved?

ALSO:  re/DAT and others who are running out of top-to-bottom room--me too!  Let's start splitting things sidw-to-side!  Aspect ratios are getting WIDER!

[LonWar]

Will somebody please post a screenshot so those of us (me) who are afraid to try new things can at least feel involved?

ALSO:  re/DAT and others who are running out of top-to-bottom room--me too!  Let's start splitting things sidw-to-side!  Aspect ratios are getting WIDER!

If you have 11.1 installed, just rename your MediaCenter.exe file to (1) and then run MC with the new exe....
You aren't installing anything, it's just a zipped exe

[datdude]

Another idea that would go along with this new brainstorm is after you select a button, ALL of the LINKS except the one selected should still be available inside each box.  As you drill down further into the different links/categories, the ones you have chosen go away.  This would allow for a non-linear way of finding music which would be AWESOME.  Currently you can only drill down from left to right.

Also the Artist font is too big and is often cut off in the library view.

More things to think about:

I have my view scheme set to random sort and the library view keeps this logic.  This is bad for library style view and should be ignored in my opnion or at least allowed to be disjunct from the scheme.

The Alpahbet at the top should only show up under buttons/fileds that apply to that condition.

In normal library view before this new integration, you used to see the butotns change with the your selections and this is not held true now but should be or create a back and forward button.

[jgreen]

11.0.314

[darichman]

I love it! Especially the way it incorporates your existing view schemes and even custom fields. As long as it's all configurable (including the ability to switch it on and off in the individual view scheme options ~ I'll want it for some of my view schemes but not others!) it has my thumbs up 

Partially off-topic question: Would it be too difficult to have customisability of the thumbnail image shown (ie depending on what filter is being used). I would love to be able to say: If field = X display image Y. But I guess this would be a whole new interface...

Eg if I filter my photos by [Person], it would be good if I could say: if[Person] = JimH then display image JimH.jpg, instead of just cycling through the photos in the album (which doesn't really make sense in this case). The same could be done for artists (using artist images).

A bit ambitious, I know, but the thread topic does say "Brainstorm". Any thoughts?

[bennyd]

I like it, maybe also an option in which mode to start by default (now it always starts in list mode, maybe an option to start in the graphical mode)

[Tolga]

There's a first cut here:
ftp://ftp.jriver.com/pub/downloads/music/tmp/MC_LibraryConcept.zip

I liked the premise. I liked this better than some of the ideas I threw earlier. So I don't deserve a shirt. QED.

My 2 cents updated:

Remove Links on the groups (use top buttons instead)
I would get rid of individual links on each group. Do we want 40 links on a screen? Instead, the top buttons would have the same (and a more general) function. Select a subset of groups, and hit the top buttons to apply the filter and change view.

For example:

Select Rock and Musical in the genre view, Hit Albums to see all albums in the Rock and Musical genres combined.

  If you think about it, this mechanism exactly corresponds to make multiple selections on a view item, and then pushing on a group button corresponds moving to a different view item using tab key.

Folders
I want a folder button on the top, which shows me the folders starting at my specified base location. Of course only the folders that are not eliminated in my previous filterings (just like the current location view item). I want to double click on one of the folders to get into the folder to further limit the selected items. (again, just like its corresponding view item). The cool part is that this would work very similar to explorer. (but a generalized explorer combined with other filters).

Thumbnails:
How about theater view style composite thumbnails that summarize the groups?

Advanced view with view item filters
To view and locate things I think we don't need view item filters anymore (see equivalence argument above).  But for tagging they would be still useful.

Idea: Optional split window for view items. [Check the new groups function on Skype 2.0 Beta for a user friendly implementation]. As I argued above, any selection with this view will have a corresponding view item selection that will be visible when the split window is down. [call it advanced view].

Dinasour view
option to switch back to thumbnail and list views for backward compatibility.

[Tolga]

Select Rock and Musical in the genre view, Hit Albums to see all albums in the Rock and Musical genres combined.

I have now realized that the old library browser works exactly with this logic. I am all for it. I haven't played with it much because I don't use regular tag names.

[GHammer]

The 'First Cut' looks good to me.

I'd make the font size smaller for the album names once in the cover browser though.
If there were a way to have a popup list when you hover over a cover that would be cool too.
But I do like the ease of changing between a list and the graphical representation.

[pank2002]

I've tried the first take on the new view, and my first though was 'Why?'. I don't see myself ever using it in the form it is in now! As I see it, it's just simplified panes or something like that. (Sorry for being negative).

The 'Show all'-button is nice, though.

I think one should be able to click on fx 'Audio' and change the view to 'Images'/what ever rather than having to click on the button in the upper left corner.

If you select an artist in the panes and click 'Albums' MC will show all albums rather than just the albums of the given artist.

I'd like to be able to select the tracks from a given album without having to click on 'files'. Maybe Artist-->Album, and then a view as suggest in my picture above. I.e. a 'File' + 'Album' mutant! That might be Shangri-La of Media Center!

Alt+Arrow keys don't work in the new view.

edit: Speling

[lee269]

Im not in a position to try the betas right now, but would some braver soul than me be prepared to post a screenshot of the 'first cut'?

[pank2002]

It's not that exciting



When you click on one of the 'tabs' in the top it will change to the library browser.

[Dutch Peter]

Could a search field per view be part of this re-design?
Now, if multiple views (of the new design) are used, all views are filtered.

[ichkriegediekriese]

"First cut" doesn t look bad. You still have the complexibility of the lmedia browser and via the buttons it easier to change to library view.
 
t would just be sad to loose the original "media library view" its the most efficient way to find and browse through your media.

[jgreen]

I think this is pretty exciting.  Congrats jriver! (Now that I've finally gotten a look at it--thanks pank.)

1.  I keep thinking of this as an enhancement to library browser, not a replacement for media library view. 

2.  Dutch's comment re/view-specific searches has my vote!  I always keep a view for PN while I search, and I always have to reset it to drag-and-drop.

3.  Since we're making wild requests, you see the progress bar at the top?  What would happen if you laid a row of ten buttons just below it, "radio preset" buttons.  You could right-click and add custom view schemes like you currently do in the tree.  WHOAH!

4.  And again:  What if you through in a vertical split view?

5.  I like where you're heading with this, guys.  But some of us aren't quite ready to lose the media library completely.

[Matt]

The build going up in a few minutes will feature the second cut of this idea.  We like it.  Hopefully you will too.

You may want to do Edit > Reset All View Schemes... if you haven't done much customization to see the default look.

Let us know what you think.  Thanks.

[bytestar]

I white not which I say simply better!    the new merged library / browser view.

It is simply good   

[LonWar]

If you have a lot of panes in a view, and click on a tab, the links under the tiles don't look right.

I can email a shot of what I mean if you like

[pank2002]

The newest build is better. Still, I prefer panes.

When having a complicated view the hyperlinks are screwed up. I have tried to illustrate it with the following ASCII graphic of a entry in my iPod view.

[Cover Art]
Bo Kaspers Ork... (should be Orkestra)
...y iPod genres artist album f... (files and play aren't shown)

A higher resolution version of the no-coverart logo should be produced. It's not-so-good at the moment. Maybe a vector logo if MC can read vector-graphic.

It would be nice if file view could be turned on by default. Sometimes it starts in animated mode when one click on a given view.

It's still not exactly my cup of tea, but, as stated above it has gotten better. Still I would prefer a more album focused way of browsing the music, but that's merely my personal opinion.

[Matt]

Let me point out a few of the changes:

• Library Browser views use a new layout with larger images.
• Classic pane view is fully preserved with no speed difference.
• History (back and forward) integrate with main program so history is not lost when leaving the view like the old Library Browser.
• Library Browser fields mimic the view schemes, making them fully customizable unlike before.
• Multi-selection works as expected when clicking links on the browser tiles.
• Library browser tiles allow bi-directional filtering: show "artists for a genre" or "genres for an artist." (also useful in image views like People / Places / Events)
• View items audio, images, and video moved to the root of the tree for easier access.

[JaredH]

I think what you've got going with today's build is really going somewhere. Simplicity being the key here, I think it is only progression that you merge the two "Library" modes. It's just a matter of arrangement now.

Personally, I would like to see panes remain an integral part of the Library. I would also like to be able to delete particular "root" view schemes that I do not use.

However, I would be past the point of persuaded to keep all of them if there were an option, much like "Jump to Playing now (If Has Display), to "Play in Window (If Has Display)". There are a couple programs out there that will launch videos in a new window that dynamically resizes to the source resolution of the video. That is really the only reason I don't use MC for videos. It forces your video into whatever size Playing Now's viewable area happens to be.

That seemed more off topic, but I can bring it home with this. If those small abilities were implemented into MC's core along with the combined "Media Library/Library Browser" and the ability to horizontally scroll through images and videos in the list, I think the culmination of all that is right in the world of media management will have finally come to pass.

Sorry guys, I'm wordy.

[Jaguu]

Hi Matt,

I definitely like it, especially the fact that the selection buttons reflect the panes. That's really a great idea, so there is no need for a separate browsers confiuration.

What I do not understand is why you repeat the selections on every icon. Don't see any reason for that except that you do not have to move the mouse to the top. This to me looks a little cumbersome and disturbs the harmony of having just icons with a title.

By the way, MyDocuments is still there. Didn't you say you dropped it?