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[Matt]

What I do not understand is why you repeat the selections on every icon. Don't see any reason for that except that you do not have to move the mouse to the top. This to me looks a little cumbersome and disturbs the harmony of having just icons with a title.

It looks nicer with less text, but in internal usability testing we watched people get confused when filtering happened automatically after making a selection. 

Also, how easy and fast something is to use is correlated to how much mouse movement is needed. (this was what bothered me when the links weren't there)

By the way, MyDocuments is still there. Didn't you say you dropped it?

It's there by default, but you can delete it by hand if you like.  We only removed the documents "Media Mode" from below the search box.

Thanks.

[Matt]

As an aside, the new browser scheme defaults didn't get merged into the build.  Basically, we removed "Advanced" from the root and added the items to their respective media type group.  You can also do this by hand.  Tomorrow's build will be updated.

[JaredH]

What I do not understand is why you repeat the selections on every icon. Don't see any reason for that except that you do not have to move the mouse to the top. This to me looks a little cumbersome and disturbs the harmony of having just icons with a title.

I personally prefer the way the buttons reflect the button style of the skin. The way they were before required styling new individual buttons to match your skin. This way theres one standard skin for the buttons.

[Jaguu]

You may have to add some grammatical rules for the plurals of the field names, e.g.

the field "artist" becomes "artists" in plural
but
a user defined field such as "gallery" does not work by simply adding an "s". The plural of "gallery" is "galleries", but it displays as "gallerys", which is wrong!

[datdude]

'Library browser tiles allow bi-directional filtering: show "artists for a genre" or "genres for an artist." (also useful in image views like People / Places / Events)'

Woo hoo...

Suggestions:

1) The tiles need to be wider as the main font is getting cut off and there is not enough room for all of the links such as 'files' which I can't get to after drilling down through the tiles.

2) Add a drop down box next to the buttons that allows you to select saved view schemes

3) My view scheme includes a playlist category which when selected under a link in a tile, is sorted by artist name rather than the different playlist names.  Is this possible to change?  If not then don't allow that as a link since it takes up space.

4) Toolbar buttons for List style: details and thumbnails should still be able to work even when in tile view.

[GHammer]

When I am in album view then click on files for an album I sure enough go to those files.
But there is no easy way to return to the same place in the album browser after looking at files.

[GHammer]

In startup interface options there is the option to start in Media Library or Library Browser.

[Matt]

When I am in album view then click on files for an album I sure enough go to those files.
But there is no easy way to return to the same place in the album browser after looking at files.

Try "back."  It works everywhere in the program.  (use backspace or mouse button)

[Matt]

2) Add a drop down box next to the buttons that allows you to select saved view schemes

The tree is the way to switch view schemes.  We don't want to complicate that by providing two systems to pick a view. (or am I misunderstanding?)

Thanks.

[datdude]

You got it. 

Unfortunately I don't really use the tree view and try to avoid  it by hiding it, plus I think new users might actually start using views more if it showed up in the main interface and it would be a very streamlined way of choosing views(which you can do anything with and should not be de-emphasized to the tree view).  Just my opinion though.

The only way I will start using the tree view/left hand side of MC, is if there is permanent adjustable (in size, and what is shown) playing now/display area. Maybe tabs?

[Tolga]

This is getting closer to the ultimate point.

I personally prefer bi-directional filtering, so I agree with that choice. (I was arguing for that in MC 11 view schemes too).

I don't like repeated filter links below icons, and it seems there is not sufficient space anyway. Instead, I suggest to use top buttons as filters. To give visual clue to the user, the filters that have a selection maybe highlighted. There should be a way to reset all or a particular filter. I am not sure how. (double click on the filter button, for single filter reset and a seperate reset all button?)

Earlier I argued for theater view style icons. Now I guess I prefer the rotating thumbnails better. Good job.

If you can add folders to this, with Auto Import, I am ready to buy MC12.

[hit_ny]

Anyone want to post some pics of this new look ?

Not ready just yet to jump into 11.1 yet.

[datdude]

Another idea is to make a drop down list for the links in each tile.  It coudl be titled 'select' and work almost exactly like when you are  tagging a field in the list view.  It would save space and you could have as many view fields as you wanted.

[bennyd]

No easy way to go back to your previous selection (except when using the back button, but that's confusing for new users)

Maybe put a back button more visible somewhere ?

Once selected something and you're in files mode, you can't see what your selection exactly was.
Maybe add some sort of breadcrumb so you can see where you come from and you can click on each path to go back to a previous state ?

[Dutch Peter]

Using 11.1.74 I tried to change the size of the tiles through 'customize view'. It does not work.
For me the current tiles are to big on my 15'' screen.

[bennyd]

I think it's confusing when selecting an album and then clicking on files on the top bar, it shows all files instead of the files of that album. Maybe rename the buttons to "All Files", "All Albums" etc.
So we know that we have to click on the icon "Files" to have it filtered.

[bennyd]

Clicking on "ctrl" to select multiple items is ok, but then if you want to see the files for your selected items you have to click on one of the icons its "files", this is confusing for new users.
Maybe (as noted above), use some breadcumb system that reflects what you select (if multiple albums selected, show "multiple albums" etc.

eg:

Pop -> Multiple Albums Selected -> Files

or

Pop -> X & Y -> Files

or

Multiple Genres Selected -> One Way Ticket To Hell And Back -> Files


This way we don't need a back button but can always click on the breadcrumb item to go to a previous filtered state and this way we can easily see what our selection was if we're in File mode

[GHammer]

Try "back." It works everywhere in the program. (use backspace or mouse button)

Which mouse button is 'Back'?
Right or left click does nothing.

Since there are already multiple buttons there, an arrow to return to where you were wouldn't be out of place.

[hit_ny]

Let me point out a few of the changes:

• Library Browser fields mimic the view schemes, making them fully customizable unlike before.

Can someone confirm whether this allows filters to be used like step 4 with viewschemes ?

For instance i would tell it to avoid files with certain tags. eg Cue source files so i only see the cue items in the library browser.

[Tolga]

It looks nicer with less text, but in internal usability testing we watched people get confused when filtering happened automatically after making a selection. 

Also, how easy and fast something is to use is correlated to how much mouse movement is needed. (this was what bothered me when the links weren't there)

Matt,

- Highlighting the buttons for the fields that have a selection could counter that confusion.
- Using tabs to move between buttons could simplify the long mouse movement problem.

If you really want local selection, the links could appear when you are on a thumbnail, but I don't know how to deal with not enough space for all the links problem. Maybe smarttag or tooltip kind of thing is the solution.

Tolga

[JimH]

Which mouse button is 'Back'?
Right or left click does nothing.

You can add a back button to the top or button.

Some mice have a back button.

[JONCAT]

I like where this is going but simplicity? Many people use panes and view schemes to achieve what they want of course we still need a file view for albums. Library Browser
is convoluted right now but it should still be implemented into the pane view; it needs an overall however.

If your panes are Genre, Artist, Album, Name then in your Main Audio scheme your not going to see Files in Library Browser Albums...too many fields. CLUTTERED. Some of us have to use increased DPI on our systems; as large monitors become cheaper I see this becoming more prevalent. Even on 8 size font MB looks cluttered w/ cut off values. Do I care that I have 49 hours of a particular genre and 768 files in there? I thought Matt said it was customizable and that would be nice but it just seems the there is too much going on in MB. Take the album thumbnail which soo many people love.
     I configure  it to maximize the albums I can see at 260x260 and I have the album name underneath....simple and clean....if that album name was a link that allowed a pane to pop up below with all the files right there...wouldn't that be a whole lot more concise. But still the concept of clicking on Files to go into a new window defeats the purpose of MC and it's panes view i.e. seeming multiple things at once.  Maybe keep this function but what is essential and in dire need is the Album Thumbnail File List Pane. Below I have outlined a streamlined solution that I know a LOT of people are waiting for, and MB isn't going to cut it.

ALEX B was speaking for a lot of people when he mentioned a file list of album thumbnails. I think this is a great idea about actually implementing it & I'd like some feedback.

What about adding a minimizable window at the bottom: basically a new pane below so when you minimize "classic" panes above> you have all your album thumbanils> maximize (just as you minmize the tree and "classic" panes) the bottom pane which displays whatever files you have selected according to the respective album thumbnails selected.

It would look just as ALEX B pictured at the beginning of this thread, but you could hide it to browse all your thumbs.





That way you could really leave the "classic" pane behavior alone and simply add a new, independent function that would be there if people want it. God this would be perfect, then we can even have at most "classic" panes on top, album thumbnails in the middle, and a album file view at the bottom or you can use whichever combination suits your need.

Also, I see how Library Browser could really integrate exceptionally well with this idea. You navigate to an Artist or Genre and when you choose Albums>>>

(what about using a Theatre View type command such as "Open or Play Now" (again I think allowing customization is the key)

>>>>into the Album Thumbnail View that I described; "classic" panes on top (and minimizable ALL THE WAY TO THE TOP OF THE SCREEN (with remotes and mouses becoming so interactive sometimes I simply want more screen space for a while or at least the option and don't need the functions at the top for a while), album thumbs in the middle, and below the minimizable Album Thumbnail File List Pane.
 So in this sense Library Browser behaves the same but once you select files there is the new option of a pane below which is basically a split view. Once you have found your Genre or Artist I think you then want to see what your looking for so having it open into this thumb or automatic view would be perfec , but it needs to be easier like a double click Opens that Genre or Artist directly to the Files view whereas a Play button could remain below. This would be fast...find genre, find artist, double-click (or select play), and view thumbnails or automatic view. Is this concept summed up by saying "bottom panes" = Album Thumbnail File List Pane?? Is the horse dead yet?

Visually integrating Library Browser means allowing it to be customized (font size/fields) but what about small abbreviated buttons instead that could have a scroll over text window pop up to avoid confusing for some esoteric fields.

What y'all think?

thanks
JC

[GHammer]

You can add a back button to the top or button.

Some mice have a back button.

Some don't.

Point being, it is unintuitive. I was 'here' went 'there' don't see a way to get back.
Switching back and forth from mouse to keyboard is so 1980s.

[Tanguero]

Probably good if you need it, but for me, it basically means a line of buttons I don't need taking valuable space. I can see two ways around this:

1) Make the buttons (and implicitly the Library Browser functions?) optional by ticking/unticking a box in the Tree & View options.

2) Find a space somewhere in the top of the window for a button to show/hide the buttons (placed where it doesn't take list space).

The second alternative is probably the best, provided that you can find a good space. I am aware, though, that this means a change in the most stable part of the interface.

[Matt]

Switching back and forth from mouse to keyboard is so 1980s.

So is using a mouse from 1980

[Tanguero]

I just moved my previous Customize Current View post, in changed form to the 11.1.74 thread http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=30603.msg210740#msg210740;

 it seemed a better place for it.

[runemail]

Ok, i think this is a promissing improvement to the ui.

Still needs some work, When i double click an artist i would like to jump to that artists albums. And then when i select album by double clicking, i would like to display that albums tracks in a similar way, and not in panes, this should be an option at least.

And i think the "showing only some files" message is just confusing, It should at least say "Showing (only) files/tracks from (album) by (artist)"
The "Show all files" button should be replaced with a "back to albums by (artist)". Show all files can still be done by clicking "Files" button at the top (and it should be named "tracks" or even better "all tracks" when in audio mode).

I think the current top buttons are ugly and not very functional. The Button style in the old library browser was better.

Something like this is what i hope for:



Kind of like a library browser on steroids.

Not shure about the playing now at the bottom, but this would be a nice and easy way to browse and play using just my mouse/remote. Drag and drop to/in Playing now should be implemented. For me this, or something similar, would be the ultimate interface for my "htpc", as well as for casual browsing.
The left pane is just hidden and can be brought back the usual way to access the action window and tree.
There should also be a "ToggleBrowse" button to go back to regular panes.


Anyway i think it's a good idea to make the new library interface with a lot of configuration options for now. 

 

[Dutch Peter]

I really (really, really) would like a search function added:



This way I would be able to flexibly search in the library in view 1 without affecting Playing Now in view 2. The result could be dragged & dropped from the filtered view to the right spot in Playing Now.

SUPER!!!

[Dutch Peter]

Some comments based on this screenshot (no mockup):



> Tiles are big and non configurable
> The options at the bottom of the tile are centered and difficultly reached.
In case off images I can not choose the option 'files'.

[datdude]

I think a drop down 'select' box in each tile could solve the issue of links being cut off.  This would make navigation effortless. 

I really do like seeing the librray browser in its current incarnation with just a few tweaks could be perfrect.

[edbro]

I can't change the view scheme in the new library browser. The tiles are too big for my little laptop. When I change the tile size, it doesn't seem to do anything except for the view in Disk Location.

[Matt]

Another version just went up.  It uses the "bread crumbs" idea posted by BennyD.

Let us know what you think.

[Mike Noe]

Man, I'm really diggin' it so far.  Breadcrumbs works, not sure about the UI aspect, but it's very handy.  My wife has been over my shoulder and really digs it as well.

Wish I had something more useful to add.....maybe later....

[park]

Hi,
Maybe something is wrong for me, but navigation is a mess. I cant see any of the info at the bottom of the tile.
Double clicking on the tile doesnt do anything (it should enter it, right?), the exclamation mark button is obscure, and I really dislike having to use a drop down menu. It feels as though all of the information is being hidden.
I read that highlighting panes would be multi-directional. How is this possible when you can only select one pane at a time from a drop down list?
Here is a screenshot of what I am seeing:



Also, I really have to say, that I like seeing the list (or in my case the album thumbnails) down under my panes (or library tiles in this case).
I have them sorted by "last played" so that as I am filtering along the top, the list at the bottom is constantly refined and filtered too.
Maybe you could make the "album" and "files" tiles and permant fixture in the bottom half of the screen (with a button to toggle which you want to see), and that would make space in the tiles in the top half to display other pane info. Clicking a tile at the top would update the tiles below.

[park]

One more thing 
I think that the tiles should throw up a random image, not the first alphabetical one.
Maybe when you are hovering over a tile, it could scroll through alphabetically.

[Matt]

Maybe something is wrong for me, but navigation is a mess.

...

I read that highlighting panes would be multi-directional. How is this possible when you can only select one pane at a time from a drop down list?

Try a view scheme like "Genre / Artist / Album" where the links at the bottom of the tile are usable.  We're still thinking about how to handle very large view schemes.

Also, I really have to say, that I like seeing the list (or in my case the album thumbnails) down under my panes (or library tiles in this case).

Click the "Files" link in a tile.  Use back (or the bread crumb list at the top) to flip back.

[Tolga]

Another version just went up.  It uses the "bread crumbs" idea posted by BennyD.

Let us know what you think.

I didn't like the pull down replacement for filter buttons. I fail to see the point. With buttons, you can see all filter options before you select them, important if you work with multiple views.

 Squeezing links on thumbnails doesn't work either. I see more dots than any readable characters and I don't see how I can have more than 4-5 filters. See my earlier posts for suggestions on that.

[JONCAT]

"I didn't like the pull down replacement for filter buttons. I fail to see the point. With buttons, you can see all filter options before you select them, important if you work with multiple views."

I agree, now you have to have use two mouse clicks instead of one....so 80's 

Could you have a bar the actively snaps out from the left when you mouse over the area; or make it configurable like an an auto-hide feature?

PLEASE consider ALEX B's proposal (and mine) to integrate a file pane beneath the album thumbanil view; this is essential and honestly so intuitive I still can't fathom why we  haven't seen its implementation.

thanks
JC

[Matt]

I agree, now you have to have use two mouse clicks instead of one....so 80's 

Agreed.  We'll change this somehow tomorrow.

PLEASE consider ALEX B's proposal (and mine) to integrate a file pane beneath the album thumbanil view; this is essential and honestly so intuitive I still can't fathom why we  haven't seen its implementation.

The argument against this is that we don't want to clutter a clean screen look, but it could be hidden with the splitter locked at the bottom by default.  However, does it work to tap the "Files" link and the "Back" button to simulate the same thing?

Thanks.

[GHammer]

It is working well for me in this build (75).
Less cluttered and easy to get back to where I was.
I agree with the 'clicks' issue, but then again I do like the 'cleaner' look this way.

[GHammer]

Can we have the tiny thumbnails in files list back now?

[datdude]

Try a view scheme like "Genre / Artist / Album" where the links at the bottom of the tile are usable.  We're still thinking about how to handle very large view schemes.

I like having the links down there.  There is really only 2 ways do that though.  1) A drop down list. 2) have the links 'read' accross the bottom of the tile and base the direction of their movement upon which side of the tile the mouse is closest to.

It would be nice to be able to re-sort on the fly when in library view.  The main one I want to be able to sort by is number of files in a category/tile.   Make the choices dynamic based upon the current field selected.

[JaredH]

I would definitely hope that there will be the choice to have your library start up in either graphical or file mode. Seems that would be the wisest move, seeing as the percentage of users using Media Library and Library Browser is almost split right down the middle.

[bennyd]

Thanks Matt for considering the "bread crumb" style.
Now we can see where we are and go back easy.

The drop down with the button next to it seemed confusing to me until I used it, then it makes sense.

Don't know for new users how they will react though.

I like the bidirectonial possibility.

Can't we have a "Play selected" button on top instead of clicking Play on one of the Icons ?
(Like in Playlists, Smartlists etc.)

[Dutch Peter]

I hoped for a drop down in the tile, not in the header.
Personally I do not think is an enhancement. It makes the navigation less intuitive.

[Dutch Peter]

In earlier versions I could click a Artist tile and type 'Robbie' to get to any artist starting with Robbie.
That does not work anymore. Very much a drawback as long as a separate search is not available.

[JONCAT]

MATT,

"The argument against this is that we don't want to clutter a clean screen look, but it could be hidden with the splitter locked at the bottom by default.  However, does it work to tap the "Files" link and the "Back" button to simulate the same thing?"

Yes the splitter would be essential and the whole thing could be locked to the bottom. The key is that this is different behavior from how you currently navigate through Genre, Artist, Album, Name.....now, using panes above or album thumbnails, your albums track names are highlighted in red. I say keep that but just add this "bottom" pane which like you said could be hidden by the splitter tab. Then you ad a whole way to use MC e.g. browse your thumbs with this new bottom track/name pane open below. I'll bet you'll get a lot of feedback on what to include there from everyone here...it could be dedicated to tracks or have full pane functionality...I think it has endless possabilities.

In a similar vein, you guys should entertain the possability of having the top panes also able to maximize to the top of the screen..a good 20% of the screen is used up, albeit w/ important stuff, but we don't alwasy need access to this what with all our 80's mice and  interactive keyboards.

This would stay on the track of "Simple & Clean"...when you can minimize or maximize the screen to shape your work habits of MC ( a screen 100% full of album covers that I can click on a play wold be simple indeed)The splitter tab is genius and you guys need to experiment with it.  Please give this a try if you can and we'll drool over it, I mean beta test i.

thanks,
Jonathan

[Matt]

I would definitely hope that there will be the choice to have your library start up in either graphical or file mode. Seems that would be the wisest move, seeing as the percentage of users using Media Library and Library Browser is almost split right down the middle.

It already does this.  It will start where you left it last.

[Alex B]

Is this going to be "finalized" soon? Personally, I have not had enough time to fully explore this in real-life use. I have some thoughts, but nothing good enough to post here yet.

I like to explain once again what I have used in MC11 and what I have found problematic with MC11 Library Browser.

Besides a detailed view with about 40 library fields visible (by horizontal scrolling) I have used a view, which allows me to see the albums like they were in a CD self at a store. The front covers are visible and the albums are sorted by "Album Artist/Album" rule. The view looks nice and I found MC11.0 to be fast enough for scrolling over 2000 album covers - no problems at all with that. The problem is, when I select one of the albums and like to quickly see the detailed contents, MC11.0 can't do that. I must trust my memory or go through the slow route and then back again.

My album browser:


Click to enlarge.

I have used these settings for the view:


The rule in "Step 4" filters unwanted library items off:

Code: [Select]

[Media Type]=[Audio] -[Image File]=[] -[CUE track]=[Y (source)] [Lonely]=[] ~sort=[Album Artist (auto)],[Album]


Here is how Library Browser shows the same part of my library:


Click to enlarge.

It has obvious problems: the images are too small, over 50% of the display space is wasted, various lonely single tracks are included, only the album artist is visible, not separate albums (I need to see both at the same time) and it is UGLY. The only advantage is the quicker access to the album contents.


The new reincarnation fixes many things, but as I said, I need to play more with it before I can make conclusions.

[Jaguu]

Some suggestions / ideas after trying out the last version:

1) It would be more elegant if album selection would happen by hovering the mouse over a picture instead of clicking the mouse.

2) Single-clicking on a picture should drop one level deeper

3) Double-clicking on a picture should start playing music, video or a slide-show depending on media type

4) Clicking on the title line should open a) kind of a smart tag with all the selections or b) drop one level deeper

5) The font size of the title could be a little smaller, maybe use some narrow font

6) What about file counting like Outlook instead of a separate line: instead of 34 files, just Title(34)

7) the used space/album information is not really useful unless you have a handheld. This could go to the status line depending on how many albums were selected.

8 ) Additional information could also be displayed on a popup window when an album is selected

9) Definitely don't like the fact that when clicking on the picture and clicking on the title nothing happens.

10) Selection could also be put on the context menu. Right clicking the mouse is an established way of performing some actions everywhere in the Windows world. Don't understand why this is not used more as "Play" is already there.

11) There should be a button that allows cycling through all the additional view schemes below the main view schemes audio, image, video so that the menu panel could be hidden altogether