Topic: Static Playing Now (Read 10680 times)

dcwebman · « **on:** October 16, 2006, 08:00:13 am »

One of the big problems with MC 12 is the rolling Playing Now as it can appear anywhere in the navigation tree and sometimes not even be visible. This problem didn't happen in MC 11. I think below will solve this problem and still make MC 12 "pretty".

Anybody agree/disagree?

Now let's see,
where is the Playing Now?

Nobody liked it anyway

Oh there it is,
nice and easy to find.

Nobody liked it anyway

gappie · « **Reply #1 on:** October 16, 2006, 08:20:25 am »

great idea !

edit:
that is why i put playing now in the toolbar

dcwebman · « **Reply #2 on:** October 16, 2006, 08:27:18 am »

Quote from: gappie on October 16, 2006, 08:20:25 am

that is why i put playing now in the toolbar

Me too. I have it in the top and bottom toolbars. But for the new/casual user, they will have no idea on how to do that. First impressions are always best.

Alex B · « **Reply #3 on:** October 16, 2006, 08:39:05 am »

Maybe, but it still looks like a workaround to me. Now the three main categories move up and down depending on if the Playing Now branch is expanded or not.

I have been tinkering with this too and finally I may have an idea. I'll try to make some mockups later today.

dcwebman · « **Reply #4 on:** October 16, 2006, 12:48:16 pm »

Quote from: Alex B on October 16, 2006, 08:39:05 am

Maybe, but it still looks like a workaround to me. Now the three main categories move up and down depending on if the Playing Now branch is expanded or not.

Solution is to leave the Playing Now expanded all the time as static. Now there's only one extra row:

Image was Start and Playing Now at top with the two items under Playing Now listed on the same line.

dcwebman · « **Reply #5 on:** October 17, 2006, 07:07:12 am »

Okay, guess I'm beating a dead horse here as I must be the only one that goes to Playing Now often. No more on this topic then.

glynor · « **Reply #6 on:** October 17, 2006, 08:02:06 am »

I go to playing now all the time, but I use a toolbar button or the button I assigned for the task on my remote.

johnnyboy · « **Reply #7 on:** October 17, 2006, 08:09:52 am »

I fully agree with your mock up.
The link at the top makes alot of sense to me.

Doof · « **Reply #8 on:** October 17, 2006, 11:12:15 am »

Everytime I hit this page, I'm getting prompted for a username and password for copesonline.com

Matt · « **Reply #9 on:** October 17, 2006, 11:15:10 am »

We like the media buttons at the top.

If you like a static Playing Now button, you can add a toolbar button to the top or bottom of the program.

StFeder · « **Reply #10 on:** October 17, 2006, 11:16:22 am »

Quote from: Doof on October 17, 2006, 11:12:15 am

Everytime I hit this page, I'm getting prompted for a username and password for copesonline.com

Me too. And I think this causes, that I cannot see the here posted Pictures...

JimH · « **Reply #11 on:** October 17, 2006, 11:22:16 am »

Quote from: Doof on October 17, 2006, 11:12:15 am

Everytime I hit this page, I'm getting prompted for a username and password for copesonline.com

Blame it on dcwebman. I changed the links and his avatar.

Doof · « **Reply #12 on:** October 17, 2006, 11:26:12 am »

The weird thing is, is that right after I made my post, it all started working correctly.

modelmaker · « **Reply #13 on:** October 17, 2006, 11:35:41 am »

Quote from: Matt on October 17, 2006, 11:15:10 am

We like the media buttons at the top.

If you like a static Playing Now button, you can add a toolbar button to the top or bottom of the program.

I like them up there too, but I think both the media buttons and the Playing Now should be static at the top.

I find it very annoying to have to scroll all the way back to the top to choose a different media group or scroll around the tree to find PN.

I have had PN in the tool bar since MC 9, btu I would probably prefer it over in the tree if it didn't move around all the time.

dNj · « **Reply #14 on:** October 17, 2006, 11:49:21 am »

Keeping Playing now at the top is useful for collasping multiple view schemes. I have always been able to hit my playing now toolbar button and i'm instantly kicked up to the top of my tree making it easy to collapse all my expanded views. Currently i have to scroll up and down to see where i can collapse.

What i'm requesting is a simple way of forcing MC to jump to the top of the tree. Is there a toolbar button or command i don't know about?

Matt · « **Reply #15 on:** October 17, 2006, 12:04:53 pm »

Quote from: dNj on October 17, 2006, 11:49:21 am

What i'm requesting is a simple way of forcing MC to jump to the top of the tree. Is there a toolbar button or command i don't know about?

Ctrl+G collapses all.

dcwebman · « **Reply #16 on:** October 17, 2006, 07:26:50 pm »

Quote from: JimH on October 17, 2006, 11:22:16 am

Blame it on dcwebman. I changed the links and his avatar.

I wonder what happened to my avatar. Do my images in the previous mockups for the tag window also cause the problem? http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=36072.50

Seems like my website might be down at times which maybe is causing the problem.

Alex B · « **Reply #17 on:** October 17, 2006, 07:38:19 pm »

Quote from: dcwebman on October 17, 2006, 07:26:50 pm

Do my images in the previous mockups for the tag window also cause the problem? http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=36072.50

No

(by the way, my mockups are almost ready, but I need to end this session now. I'll post them tomorrow.)

JimH · « **Reply #18 on:** October 17, 2006, 08:42:47 pm »

Quote from: dcwebman on October 17, 2006, 07:26:50 pm

I wonder what happened to my avatar. Do my images in the previous mockups for the tag window also cause the problem? http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=36072.50

Seems like my website might be down at times which maybe is causing the problem.

The images, including the avatar, were requesting a login and password.

datdude · « **Reply #19 on:** October 17, 2006, 10:06:03 pm »

We've got some good debates here, I like it.

A couple of quick and dirty fixes that would be nice to see with the 'edit playing now' option.

1) When songs are added to this list, it currently does not auto re-size. Is this a bug or just overlooked?

2) Add option on start up to have 'edit playing now' list open versus having to always click on it, which I hate having to remember to do after start up. This should also apply to the Tag AW item.

Now for a more difficult overhaul:

Have the tree act like a menu that auto hovers over AW items when clicked on (allowing for more AW items to open on top of each other) and can be pinned with a thumb tack option if the user prefers the existing way MC handles the tree (I think Mr. Chriz suggested this).

dcwebman · « **Reply #20 on:** October 18, 2006, 07:31:22 am »

Quote from: JimH on October 17, 2006, 08:42:47 pm

The images, including the avatar, were requesting a login and password.

Mighty weird since all images I have posted have been stored on the same website. It must have been down for that short period of time and for some reason was asking for a login/password. I'll check with my web host as to a possible reason.

Alex B · « **Reply #21 on:** October 18, 2006, 05:43:38 pm »

The return of the dead horse* (or was it the return of the media mode buttons?)

- the promised mockups

1. 2. 3.The media mode buttons would function only as buttons. When clicked the button would show the media type category as selected (blue bar) and hide the other main categories.

4. 5. The All button would make possible to have more than one media category expanded at the same time. (4. initially, 5. two categories expanded)

As you can see, Playing Now would be static and the button freaks would have top buttons to click.

* http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=35468.msg248657#msg248657

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

Alex B · « **Reply #22 on:** October 18, 2006, 05:58:54 pm »

If the user has files only from one category (e.g. audio) MC could hide all top buttons and show only that main category in the tree.

joshhuggins · « **Reply #23 on:** October 18, 2006, 07:36:40 pm »

I really, really like Alex's mock ups. I'm not liking the "add a toolbar button" approach. I have one little toolbar button for playing now up there. The tree meuns is what I like most about Media Center. O.K. not most, but a lot. At the very least being able to change the order of or even remove main parent branches would be a good fix. Since start is not a customizable page it's pretty much useless and I'd love to get rid of that space waster. I'd really like for users to be able to create custom Start pages that we could really trick out using JDnet's playing now and other cool web media tools and have them avalible for download for all to use. With the great webheads around here I bet there would be some really trick stuff. Then I think the start page could become somthing really great. FWIW, nice solution Alex.

lalittle · « **Reply #24 on:** October 18, 2006, 10:03:19 pm »

I actually like the current layout better than before. I REALLY like the fact that I can add my own view schemes to the "Main" level of the tree (instead of having to nest them in a media Type category), which allows me to see them all the time and get to them with a single click. If any changes are made, I think it's VERY important to keep this functionality since it makes a marked improvement to the everyday use of MC.

I also like that I can have my custom View Schemes at (nearly) the top of the tree. These are some of my most used View Schemes, so it makes sense for them to be at the top, above things like "Start" and "Drives and Devices" etc.

That said, I can understand why people would want the "Playing Now" at (or near) the top. It's a sort of "special case" display that needs full time access, which is why I (like others) keep it on the toolbar on both the top and bottom menus. I do see the logic in keeping it visible at all times, and in wanting it to be above the main media type categories. I definitely do NOT, however, want the "Start" button at the very top since this just takes up precious real estate at the top of the list, and I really don't ever use the this category (although I understand that it can be useful for new user.)

I also like the new "media type" categories at the top of the window, and for their expansion to take place directly below them. I don't care for the idea that clicking on one of these media type categories would expand the tree further down the list. To me, it would be redundant to have these items essentially listed twice in the tree view, and would take up unecessary space. I think that the current MC12 layout/approach is a more gracefull approach to this.

I do think that there could still be a compramise to this that would satisfy more people -- but I'm not sure what it would be. I just wanted to through my opinions into the mix.

Thanks,

Larry

Alex B · « **Reply #25 on:** October 19, 2006, 05:00:06 am »

Quote from: lalittle on October 18, 2006, 10:03:19 pm

I actually like the current layout better than before. I REALLY like the fact that I can add my own view schemes to the "Main" level of the tree (instead of having to nest them in a media Type category), which allows me to see them all the time and get to them with a single click. If any changes are made, I think it's VERY important to keep this functionality since it makes a marked improvement to the everyday use of MC.

It is possible to add root items in MC11.1 too. I have several of them in my MC11.1 library, including an "All Media" root view scheme. MC12 is not different in this sense.

Quote

I also like that I can have my custom View Schemes at (nearly) the top of the tree. These are some of my most used View Schemes, so it makes sense for them to be at the top, above things like "Start" and "Drives and Devices" etc.

Yes, if PN is static your first custom view scheme can come only after it.

Quote

That said, I can understand why people would want the "Playing Now" at (or near) the top. It's a sort of "special case" display that needs full time access, which is why I (like others) keep it on the toolbar on both the top and bottom menus. I do see the logic in keeping it visible at all times, and in wanting it to be above the main media type categories. I definitely do NOT, however, want the "Start" button at the very top since this just takes up precious real estate at the top of the list, and I really don't ever use the this category (although I understand that it can be useful for new user.)

You can already hide the "Start button" in MC12's options. However, it would be completely off then. Perhaps customizing its tree location could be allowed.

I have noticed that I dislike when Playing Now disappeares from sight when a large tree branch (or several branches) is expanded. I am not used to scroll for going to PN.

Quote

I also like the new "media type" categories at the top of the window, and for their expansion to take place directly below them. I don't care for the idea that clicking on one of these media type categories would expand the tree further down the list. To me, it would be redundant to have these items essentially listed twice in the tree view, and would take up unecessary space. I think that the current MC12 layout/approach is a more gracefull approach to this.

That's true. Actually, I thought that the new buttons could be designed to be much smaller in vertical direction since they would not contain any extended funtionality. In general, MC12 uses a lot more space than MC11.1 for the same tree items.

Quote

I do think that there could still be a compramise to this that would satisfy more people -- but I'm not sure what it would be. I just wanted to through my opinions into the mix.

Thanks,

I am after for a compromise too. My mockups are simply a workaround that tries to meet the various expectations in this matter. MC11.1's tree was about perfect for me.

joshhuggins · « **Reply #26 on:** October 19, 2006, 10:27:22 am »

Quote from: Alex B on October 19, 2006, 05:00:06 am

You can already hide the "Start button" in MC12's options.

Where is this option at if you please?

(Edit)

Well that clean things up a little better, thanks. Also, the help file doesn't list anything about that yet FWIW to the powers that be. TTFN

T2Mac · « **Reply #27 on:** October 19, 2006, 10:34:39 am »

Tools>Options>General>Advanced>Features

lalittle · « **Reply #28 on:** October 19, 2006, 03:44:15 pm »

Quote from: Alex B on October 19, 2006, 05:00:06 am

It is possible to add root items in MC11.1 too. I have several of them in my MC11.1 library, including an "All Media" root view scheme. MC12 is not different in this sense.

For some reason, I didn't remember this.

Quote

Yes, if PN is static your first custom view scheme can come only after it.

I have mixed feelings on this. On one hand, I see the advantage of having PN further up the list. On the other hand, however, I like having my custom view schemes at the top since I access these all the time, and I still have quick access to PN via the toolbar. I feel there is a logic to having ALL the view schemes in one group (the main mediatype items and my custom view schemes), and having PN in between them would disrupt this a bit. Perhaps the PN should be above the main mediatype items (I thought I saw a mockup like this, but I don't see it now.)

Quote

I have noticed that I dislike when Playing Now disappeares from sight when a large tree branch (or several branches) is expanded. I am not used to scroll for going to PN.

I understand what you're saying here. You can put PN on the toolbar and have access to it all the time, but I do see the logic in saying that if PN is going to be in the tree, it should be easily accessible.

Quote

That's true. Actually, I thought that the new buttons could be designed to be much smaller in vertical direction since they would not contain any extended funtionality. In general, MC12 uses a lot more space than MC11.1 for the same tree items.

Yes, but there is something to be said for having the "main" items a bit larger. I rather like their bigger "presense" on the screen, which gives them more weight that somehow matches their importance. With smaller icons, everything in the tree sort of blends together, and nothing really stands out.

I also like the BOLD tree items for the same reason -- they stand out amid the rest of the tree items as well as the entries in the panes. In MC11, the main tree items just didn't have the weight that MC12 gives them.

Quote

MC11.1's tree was about perfect for me.

Between MC11 and MC12, I prefer MC12's tree for the changes it implemented -- the bold tree items, the horizontal mediatypes, etc. That said, I agree that there could still be some improvements, and I agree that a static PN item would be nice if it didn't interfere with the other advantages MC12 offers over MC11.

Thanks,

Larry

dcwebman · « **Reply #29 on:** October 20, 2006, 12:15:40 pm »

Quote from: JimH on October 17, 2006, 08:42:47 pm

The images, including the avatar, were requesting a login and password.

In case anybody was interested, this was the reason given by my web host:

The issue occurs only when the active directory is corrupted. We have
load balancers servers set up on our architecture. Our IIS servers
refresh every hour, so the issue must have resolved when the servers were
refreshed.

Anyway, I started using another one of my web hosts that hopefully is more reliable.

modelmaker · « **Reply #30 on:** October 27, 2006, 10:03:02 pm »

I hate to bring this one up again....

Again, the moving target, PN (in the tree), is driving me nuts!

I have MC set to go to PN on double click. As I'm going thru the tree, and play a song, the tree of course also jumps to playing now (rather redundant) and I've lost my place in the tree where I was browsing. Most annoying.

Why the resistance to making the media buttons and PN static at the top of the tree? It just seems to me to make more ergonomic sense. My tree (audio) has over 3500 artists - that's a lot of scrolling to go back to where you were.

?

Mastiff · « **Reply #31 on:** October 31, 2006, 02:57:34 am »

I would like my Playing now at the top, please. The way it's now is just annoying.

Mr ChriZ · « **Reply #32 on:** October 31, 2006, 03:14:05 am »

A different idea
http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=differentfa1.png

Mastiff · « **Reply #33 on:** October 31, 2006, 03:54:57 am »

Very cool! But just a mock-up, right?

Mr ChriZ · « **Reply #34 on:** October 31, 2006, 04:54:12 am »

Yup, fraid so. Only had 10 minutes to do it in Pbrush so it's very rough!

Mastiff · « **Reply #35 on:** October 31, 2006, 05:04:48 am »

Well, if I do anytyhing in Painbrush it takes me hours, and it still looks very rough...

johnnyboy · « **Reply #36 on:** October 31, 2006, 05:23:37 am »

Love the mock up's above. I think it makes sense to keep those sections static seeing as thats exactly what they are - common static items you expect to always see and want to be able to get access to (PN that is).

As for your mockup Mr Chris, not a big fan sorry - too much mouse travelling to do to get from first selection to second.

zirum · « **Reply #37 on:** November 03, 2006, 02:30:40 am »

My list of what I think would make me happy:

1. Always visible main categorys (hate to scroll to find audio, video, devices etc)

2. Hiding of empty media types (As dr. Chriz said)

I'll try to fix some mockups, displaying my ideas, or how it might be solved this weekend...

zirum · « **Reply #38 on:** November 03, 2006, 02:53:25 am »

Here's the mockup.

Don't be afraid of posting opinions. Even if you hate it... I can handle it

JRiver Media Center 12.0 Mockup

[img width= height= alt=" border="0]http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/7267/jrivermockex0.png[/img]

Mastiff · « **Reply #39 on:** November 04, 2006, 10:19:11 am »

I must say I prefer Mr ChriZ' version. Then again it may just be your taste in music...

Alternative doesn't even begin to describe it, huh? All though I should feel honored to see my fellow norwegians Turbonegro there!

Alex B · « **Reply #40 on:** November 05, 2006, 06:45:51 am »

Two more mockups. As I said, the buttons could be real separate buttons with a 3D look that can show when they are pushed in and the media category is selected. Possibly they could be without text and show tooltips instead. These are not new button graphics, but perhaps they can demonstrate the idea.

Mastiff · « **Reply #41 on:** November 05, 2006, 08:49:06 am »

The question of course being there's even a remote possibility that JRiver will do anyhing about the interface. Would anybody in the team like to comment on that?

JimH · « **Reply #42 on:** November 05, 2006, 09:10:30 am »

Quote from: Mastiff on November 05, 2006, 08:49:06 am

The question of course being there's even a remote possibility that JRiver will do anyhing about the interface. Would anybody in the team like to comment on that?

Probably not.

It's fun to watch though.

Alex B · « **Reply #43 on:** November 05, 2006, 09:17:03 am »

Actually, the problem is not so big for me anymore after I added the Playing Now buttons to the toolbars:

However, the toolbar buttons need to be configured first. This is not obvious for newbies. Perhaps the empty space below the Search could be used for a "Go to Playing Now" button.

I would like to have it like this:

The position slider should be as wide as possible (i.e. as wide as the info display) and the "play mode" buttons" should be moved below the Search. I would also like to have quick access to the "output mode" and "gapless/cross-fade" settings. These are my most used items in MC's options and also related to playback.

The button line could be like this:

Continuous -- Suffle -- DSP Studio -- Output mode, gapless/cross-fade etc* -- Go to Playing Now

Edit

* This would open the "Top menu > Player > Playback Options > Playback Options" window.

RobOK · « **Reply #44 on:** November 05, 2006, 10:03:55 am »

I know this forum is not a democracy, but my vote is for a Static Playing now at the top as shown in mockups above. [Couldn't resist the election pun with U.S. congressional elections right around the corner (Tuesday)!!!]

Magic_Randy · « **Reply #45 on:** November 05, 2006, 10:27:31 am »

Quote from: Alex B on November 05, 2006, 09:17:03 am

Actually, the problem is not so big for me anymore after I added the Playing Now buttons to the toolbars:

Good idea - I did not think of using buttons.

InflatableMouse · « **Reply #46 on:** November 05, 2006, 10:54:26 am »

Quote from: JimH on November 05, 2006, 09:10:30 am

Probably not.

It's fun to watch though.

That's not what we want to hear Jim.

How about "We are working hard to place the playing now on top by popular demand. It will be available in the next beta."

hit_ny · « **Reply #47 on:** November 05, 2006, 10:58:24 am »

Alt + 2

takes you straight to PN from anywhere.

Don't think i've ever used the tree to get to PN nor felt the need to put it on the toolbar.

..am i missing something here ?

JimH · « **Reply #48 on:** November 05, 2006, 11:04:36 am »

Quote from: RobOK on November 05, 2006, 10:03:55 am

... this forum is not a democracy ...

RobOK · « **Reply #49 on:** November 05, 2006, 11:09:10 am »

Quote from: hit_ny on November 05, 2006, 10:58:24 am

Alt + 2

takes you straight to PN from anywhere.

I use keyboard shortcuts often in other programs, but not MC for some reason. I will try the Alt-2, but I mostly navigate by mouse through the library, so tend to navigate by mouse to Playing Now.

I think there are many ways to get to playing now, no one is debating that. The question is, for the users that use the Tree to navigate to Playing Now should Playing now be fixed or moving about the screen within the tree. It is a usability decision for how navigation to Playing Now from within the tree should behave.

I have not seen anyone come out in support of how it works now, all I have seen is people who do OTHER things. Since the OTHER ways seem preferred, maybe we should remove playing now from the tree altogether.

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: Static Playing Now (Read 10680 times)

gappie