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[lalittle]

I recently listened to a few podcasts and decided to download them so I'd have them on my system, and so I could transfer them to an iPod.  Before they were downloaded, they played fine (after UNchecking "m4a" in the directshow filters.)  After I downloaded them, however, they stopped playing due to the fact that the files names were over 64 characters -- I got an error message telling me that Quicktime had this limitation when I tried to play them.  I understand that I can rename them and that they will play, but it's important to note that I used the default settings in MC when I downloaded the podcasts, and I simply let the fields be filled in automatically.

It strikes me that this sort of thing really shouldn't happen when using default settings, and that perhaps something could be done to prevent this from happening in MC.  I was thinking that when MC played files that required QT (and therefore had the 64 character limitation), perhaps it could somehow copy the file to a temp location using a new, temp name and play it from there.  This would avoid the 64 character limit, but it would happen "under the hood."  This is sort of like the way the iPod works -- i.e. the files are all renamed and copied to folders where this can never happen.

Is this possible?  It's kind of frustrating to have to rename files after downloading them just to get them to play.  The whole point of podcasts is the ease of having everything taken care of automatically.

Thanks,

Larry

[lalittle]

Any feedback on this?  I ran into this issue just by downloading some Podcasts using all the default settings, and I honestly don't download that many Podcasts.  I think it's a safe bet that others will run into this problem once MC12 hits the mainstream.  Is there any way to address this without having to rename the Podcasts?  I would rather not do this since the titles of these podcasts contain the names of the people interviewed (not to mention the fact that I don't want to have to micro-manage podcasts.)

Thanks,

Larry

[NickM]

I got an unscheduled exit from MC listening to BBC News podcast.  Sadly not replicable, but logging is now on and if it happens again, I'll post.

[JimH]

You could contact the source of the files.

[lalittle]

You could contact the source of the files.

I understand that it must frustrated you guys to have to deal with this sort of thing, but seriously -- others are going to run into this, and IF the fix is to be made, it's going to have to come from you guys.  In other words, this isn't a matter of who "should" fix this -- it's a matter of being realistic.  Regardless of whose "fault" this is, this IS an issue, and Apple is obviously not going to address it because iTunes, for whatever reason, does not have this issue with these same Podcasts.  The same Podcasts are avialable in iTunes, and for whatever reason, iTunes apparently doesn't have an issue with them because I heard about this feed from people who are USING iTunes.

Larry

[JimH]

Larry,
Your priorities for our development don't always match ours.  Sorry, but this is a minor issue that you can work around.

Is this a widespread problem?  Did you try contacting the source?

[lalittle]

Larry,
Your priorities for our development don't always match ours.  Sorry, but this is a minor issue that you can work around.

I'm simply reporting my experiences and opinions.

Is this a widespread problem?

I'm not sure how widespread it is since I don't download very many podcasts.  All I can say is that I've run into this more than once, and of the three podcasts I'm currently subscribed to, one of them has this problem.

Did you try contacting the source?

I'm going to give this a shot, but given that this problem does not happen with iTunes, I seriously doubt they'll care.  I'll report back if I get a response.

Larry

[lalittle]

Sorry, but this is a minor issue that you can work around.

After investigating this and trying to figure out a workaround, I've found a fundamental problem with podcasts that require QT for playback (i.e. m4a or mp4 files.)  If you use MC's default path for saved Podcasts and a 5 character username, the filename has to be limited to TWO characters in order to stay within the 64 character limit.  This, of course, is impossible given that the ".m4a" is already 4 characters long.  When you add the extra characters added by the Library Server path, you add 23 more characters to the path.  This means that the path on the server is actually limited to 41 charcters, which is already WAY over the limit when using the default path for podcasts in MC.

If you change the default Podcast path to something shorter like "D:\Media Library\Podcast\," the path over Library Server becomes 48 characters long, leaving only 16 characters for the rest of the path/filename.  Subtracting the 4 characters needed for the ".m4a," this leaves 12 characters for the rest of the path/filename.  If you ONLY use the date for the podcast filename, you are left with only TWO characters for a folder path, one of which is used by the backslash.  The means that you can NOT use ANY folder structure for saving these podcasts if you want them to work over Library Server.

Do you really still see this as a "minor issue"?  I won't argue that there are other more serious issues to contend with, but to call this issue "minor" is to completely dismiss Podcasts as an important feature of MC.  I don't want to overstate the importance of this issue, but if you want to compete with iTunes, wouldn't be in MC's interest to address this issue?  Podcasts are, after, becoming quite popular these days, and with the popularity of iTunes, the ability to play m4a or mp4 podcasts will only become more important over time.

Note also that this issue effects any files that require QT for playback (due to the 64 character limit.)  I admit that it's QT's fault that this is an issue, but they're clearly not going to do anything about this, so it falls on MC to address this.  Wouldn't it be possible to have MC automatically create a temp file in a temp folder any time it used the QT engine for playback?  This way, it could ensure that filenames NEVER exceeded the 64 character limit regardless of what the file's name actually was.

Thanks,

Larry

[lalittle]

Wouldn't it be possible to have MC take any file that required QT and, under the hood, place it in a temp folder and play it from there?  It seems like this could potentially solve all the 64 character problems with QT playback, which come into play ALL THE TIME when using Library Server due to all the extra characters LS adds to the path.

Given how often I run into this, it seems like this would be a good solution.

Referring people to numerous 3rd party sites and asking them to download, install, and register filters and splitters is rather intimidating to most people.  This process needs to be made a LOT easier if this is going to be the solution to this issue.  The problem is that the people who are used to this sort of thing no longer recognize how difficult this is for "normal" users, so that don't appreciate that this is not really an viable solution.

Thanks,

Larry

[JimH]

Larry,
Please sink your teeth into Apple's ankle.  They should fix the problem.

[bspachman]

I hate butting in here, but I'm inclined to agree with Jim on this one. Using the QuickTime engine to play m4a and mp4 files is kind of like using a band saw to slice an apple. The only files I'm regularly playing back with the QuickTime engine any more are the iTunes Store's m4p files, and for them, it's the filename that's limited to 64 characters--not the entire path. I just have a renaming rule that takes care of auto-shortening the path for MC.

Otherwise, using the CCCP codec pack seems to deal just fine with all the other permutations. I haven't needed anything else for my mix of ape/apl/divx/xvid/mp4-h264/m4a/mp3/wma files.

There's no doubt that Apple has some backdoor work-around to deal with long filenames. It's just a shame that they don't open it for 3rd party developers.

Now, about that m4a & m4p tagging...

brad

[lalittle]

it's the filename that's limited to 64 characters--not the entire path.

This doesn't seem to be what I'm seeing on my system.  On my system, the path DOES appear to count toward the 64 character limit -- at least over Library Server.  Is there perhaps some trick to making it so the path doesn't count toward the limit?

se, using the CCCP codec pack seems to deal just fine with all the other permutations. I haven't needed anything else for my mix of ape/apl/divx/xvid/mp4-h264/m4a/mp3/wma files.

That's sounding like the best option, but one question:  I read something about having to uninstall other codecs before installing the CCCP pack.  Does this include the "Orban" plugin that I'm using to play AAC and AAC+ streams?  Will the CCCP pack play these streams just as well?

Also, if I do use the CCCP pack, do I have to install both filters and splitters, and do I have to "register" anything in Windows?  I'd really like to just install something and be done with it.

It's just a shame that they don't open it for 3rd party developers.

I totally agree.

Thanks,

Larry

[lalittle]

Larry,
Please sink your teeth into Apple's ankle.  They should fix the problem.

It's not that I don't agree with you -- it's simply that I'm realistic.  It's impossible to get through to anyone at Apple that has any control over this, and they just have no interest in fixing this sort of thing.  They have enough of the market share at this point that they feel like they just don't have to try.  I'm NOT claiming that it's JR's "responsibility" to fix this -- far from it.  I fully realize that Apple caused this issue.  I'm simply saying that you guys actually respond to your customers, and therefore that any "fix" for this will come from you and not Apple.

That said, I'm looking into other options such as the codec packs, etc.  Anything I can do to avoid Apple software is a good thing -- I just hate it when this sort of thing gets complicated.

Larry

[lalittle]

Are there any potential "gotchas" with the CCCP pack?  I ran the "insurgent" program and it says "no filter packs installed," so the system appears to be clean of anything that CCCP doesn't like, but I'm curious if CCCP will "take over" playback of things that I don't want it to.  In other words, will it try to take over for codecs used in other applications, like QT, WMP, etc?  I only want to use the CCCP pack for Media Center -- I'd like it to leave everything else alone -- but I'm confused about what aspects of the system the CCCP install will effect.

Thanks for any further assistance with this,

Larry

[lalittle]

I'm also a bit confused by the CCCP instructions.  They say to uninstall other filters, including FFDShow.  I apparently DO have FFDShow on my system, although I'm not sure when/where I got it -- all I know is that it's there, and that a little "FFDShow" icon shows up in the systray when I play certain files in WMP.  The CCCP "insurgent" program, however, does not indicate that I need to remove anything.  I'm not sure what this means, or whether or not I should take any action before installing CCCP.

Thanks for any help with this,

Larry

[JimH]

I just hate it when this sort of thing gets complicated.

Me too, but it's just part of the deal right now.

[BartMan01]

Larry,
Your priorities for our development don't always match ours.  Sorry, but this is a minor issue that you can work around.

Is this a widespread problem?  Did you try contacting the source?

The issue is that the podcasting defaults in MC include renaming the file itself, it is not a 'source' issue.  If you change the defaults to leave the file name alone then the problem goes away (at least for me, but I don't use the library server).  The default renaming scheme (for me) usually results in filenames over 64 characters.

IMHO the defaults for podcasting should not re-write ANY file tags or attributes.

[lalittle]

If you change the defaults to leave the file name alone then the problem goes away (at least for me, but I don't use the library server).

Since Library Server adds 23 characters to the path/filename, you can see that it's VERY disruptive to the naming limitations involved here.  By the time you add even a relatively short path (which can NOT be in My Documents since this alone will go over the character limit) you're limited to a rather ridiculously short filename.  When using LS, there is "effectively" no way of playing Podcasts using the QT engine unless you store the files in a folder directly off the root.  You can "do" it, but you have to use silly, non-descriptive filenames, and a path that's different from what one would typically use in MC.

Larry

[bspachman]

This doesn't seem to be what I'm seeing on my system.  On my system, the path DOES appear to count toward the 64 character limit -- at least over Library Server.  Is there perhaps some trick to making it so the path doesn't count toward the limit?

Maybe the Library server does impact this, but for local playback, it's the filename only that counts. The files are actually located on a server, but it's a mapped network drive, so I'm just looking at path names like 'M:\[path]\[filename].m4p'

That's sounding like the best option, but one question:  I read something about having to uninstall other codecs before installing the CCCP pack.  Does this include the "Orban" plugin that I'm using to play AAC and AAC+ streams?  Will the CCCP pack play these streams just as well?

Also, if I do use the CCCP pack, do I have to install both filters and splitters, and do I have to "register" anything in Windows?  I'd really like to just install something and be done with it.

Again, I'm not using or familiar with the Orban plugin. I would check out the CCCP website to see if it includes that functionality. Since I rely on the CCCP codec pack to playback my m4a files (which are AAC-encoded), I would guess that it would include at least some of the functionality that you are looking for.

Are there any potential "gotchas" with the CCCP pack?  I ran the "insurgent" program and it says "no filter packs installed," so the system appears to be clean of anything that CCCP doesn't like, but I'm curious if CCCP will "take over" playback of things that I don't want it to.  In other words, will it try to take over for codecs used in other applications, like QT, WMP, etc?  I only want to use the CCCP pack for Media Center -- I'd like it to leave everything else alone -- but I'm confused about what aspects of the system the CCCP install will effect.

Well, like many codec packs, it will register all the filters it includes. I suspect that it will also assign the highest priority to its own filters, so in a way, it will take over. I don't know if your other playback programs have interfaces for defining which filters they use for which filetypes, but MC does allow you to do this.... QT only uses QuickTime, so no filters are involved there.

I'm also a bit confused by the CCCP instructions.  They say to uninstall other filters, including FFDShow.  I apparently DO have FFDShow on my system, although I'm not sure when/where I got it -- all I know is that it's there, and that a little "FFDShow" icon shows up in the systray when I play certain files in WMP.  The CCCP "insurgent" program, however, does not indicate that I need to remove anything.  I'm not sure what this means, or whether or not I should take any action before installing CCCP.

Hmmm, when I installed CCCP, I just followed the instructions on the website. I searched through 'Add/Remove Programs' and uninstalled anything that looked vaguely codec or filter-related. Then I installed CCCP. All was well...

I'm not sure this helps, but maybe it will point you towards some starting steps...

Best,
Brad

[tgack]

Could someone please help me understand how to play back my m4p files downloaded from iTunes using the Library Server?  I continually run into the 64 character limit error and don't know if there is a way around this for the m4p files?  When using the library server it seems to include the path into the character limit.  I thought JRiver had redone this to not include the pathname but it definitely appears to be including it.

Although I confirmed it functionally works if I move the file and rename it to C:\a.m4p, it is not a desired option.  Renaming so many files is not really a desired option because iTunes automatically names these when you purchase them and I want minimal interaction; also the hostname and file extension itself take up over half the allotted characters leaving too little room for folder structure and filenames.

Are there any Directshow filters for playing m4p files (with iTunes DRM) that can get around this error?  Or does anyone use the library server with their m4p files?

[lalittle]

tgack,

I finally got around this by installing the CCCP filter pack and telling MC to play mp4 and m4a files using DirectShow filters instead of the Quicktime engine.  To do this, install the CCCP pack (from http://www.cccp-project.net/.)  Once this is done, in MC go to Tools > Options > Playback > Directshow Playback Settings.  In the "DirectShow Filters" section check both m4a and mp4.  As far as I can remember, this should do the trick.  MC should now play back the podcasts using the CCCP pack filters, which do not have the 64 character limitation.

I honestly can't remember if there are other settings involved, but I don't "think" there are.

Larry

[Yaobing]

m4p - drm protected mp4, from iTunes can only be played in Quicktime engine. The 64 character limit applies. This problem is particularly likely to arise with Media Server. For now there is no other solution than shortening your path. Sorry.

Are there any Directshow filters for playing m4p files (with iTunes DRM) that can get around this error?  Or does anyone use the library server with their m4p files?

I do not know if such a filter exists. I doubt it.

[lalittle]

Thanks Yaobing -- I didn't know about the "protected" mp4 files from iTunes.  I'll add that to the list of reasons I can't stand iTunes and/or Quicktime.

tgack -- The one suggestion I have (which is a long shot) would be to see if the podcasts are available via another source (i.e. not through iTunes.)  I know that a lot of the podcasts that people get from iTunes are also available from other sources, but I don't know if this applies to "protected" ones or not.

Larry