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[jacky]

Some thoughts from a user of MCE2005 looking for a more powerful Media Center replacement:

At first glance of Normal View, and Options menu, I already knew how much more powerful JRiver's Media Center was.  Although, Options and Features are much appreciated, increased feature sets on popular 3rd party Media Centers are common (some better than others of course). 

At Second Glance, accessing the Theater View was a disappointment.  Seemed like Theater View was implemented either as an after thought, or still in Beta. 

Some High Lights:
User Customizable Hierarchal Music Sorting
ASIO
TV Tuner Storage Efficient Recording/Time shifting Encoding
File Compatibility

Some Low Lights:
Theater View (looks and feels amateurish)
Geforce Visualization Stability (in Theater View) (Theater View->Play song->activate Big Screen with GeForce->Stop Song ->Theater View exits to Normal View)
Theater View Interface (looks primitive and cluttered)
TV Tuner Channel Access in Theater View
(Jumping directly to a TV Channel without opening the virtual number pad is impossible even with Keyboard NumPad.)

Details:

As the only member of the family with some knowledge of computer workings, I can appreciate the powerful functions of JRiver's features.  But besides high lighting the tangible Music Sorting capabilities it's hard to convince computer novices how Theater View is better than MCE2005.  Cleanness and Simplicity of User Interface (in Theater View) is Key to computer novice users.

JRiver's Media Center will be used solely in Theater View for HTPCs with cheap remotes like Cyberlink, or ones that come with ATi video cards.  Is it possible to improve on the Theater View Front End to make it look as "CLEAN" and "polished" as MCE2005?  The Theater View Skins seem to only change very minor things, not the layout.  Please consider the bugs I was listed above as well.  If these issues can be solved, I can convince the rest of the family, JRiver's a worthy replacement to MCE2005. 

[Matt]

Thanks for the feedback.  First, make sure you have build 226 (or newer) installed.

Returning to standard view on stop will be fixed in a coming build. (in testing now, will be public later this week)

What could we remove from the screenshot below to avoid clutter:
http://pix01.com/gallery/870F46F7-4E87-44B0-A4F2-0FC2ED152FFA/Media_Center_1/

Thanks again.

[maxxsid]

Matt,
Here's an idea.
Right now, everything in Theater View has the same look - buttons look like mm.. rounded rectangles with text, items in the track list look like rounded rectangles with text. same color, same size, same font etc.
This is fine but cluttery. Would it help if when not in focus, the vertical control bar would go to "washed out" look?

Like here:

What could we remove from the screenshot below to avoid clutter:
http://pix01.com/gallery/870F46F7-4E87-44B0-A4F2-0FC2ED152FFA/Media_Center_1/
Thanks again.

[jacky]

maxxsid: wow, that looks absolutely stunning compared to JRiver.   
Something along these lines would be a good start.   

[JimH]

This is starting to read like "Ugly Betty, Part II":

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=40262.0

[maxxsid]

Jim,
As I said before, the Theater View is very close to being usable and it's getting closer with every new build. Thanks for the hard work! It has most of the needed functionality  but needs some serious polishing in the UI department.
And why invent the wheel? Look at MCE and Media Portal - many good ideas/solutions are there.
MC plugin for Media Portal would make a very good combination (MP interface and MC media management and audio playback engine). But this would be a wrong solution - MC must become the front end.

--max

[jmone]

Hi Jim,  For my 2cents Theater View is usable as:
1) It has the basic feature set working (TV, Video, Audio)
2) The family can use it.

However, as mentioned in previous posts it falls short of competitive products in:
1) Features: Scheduled Recording, Combined Timeshift & Record, Support for the full key mapping support for the MS MCE IR Keyboard / RC, EPG Support, IR Blaster Support
2) Apperance: The old saying "Don't call my baby ugly" is true but the other ones are so much more pretty.....(but I got the smart one )

Thanks
Nathan

[gappie]

one of the nice things of Theater View was that you could, as you putted some time in it, give it an appearance that was nice, and fitted what you liked. since that has been taken away, we are indeed left we 'ugly betty II'.

but more important for me. i would expect Theater View to just give me a nice layout wich reflects what is under it in standard view. same sorting and stuff. but betty has a mind of her own.

since i took of theater view, and found a smart way to use standard view with my remote, the other people in this household start to understand why i swear by mc.

[park]

I recommend utilizing the main menu more. Like Microsoft MC does.



You can scroll vertically and horizontally. This would be great for choosing viewschemes. I could scroll down to video, and then scroll left and right for "Movies" "TV" "Shorts". And it would be one less menu in the navigation pane (the "views" menu).

Also, you could make the stock viewschemes show up as real viewschemes in standard view, so that we could customize or delete them if we don't want them to show up in Theater view. (personally, I'd delete them)

I agree that most of the functionality in theater view is about there now though. I like the big buttons everywhere, and the fact that we've ditched all the illegible right click menus.

[maxxsid]

No buttons in the "Big Screen" view... Well, there's a hideaway control bar but it really needs to be reworked to better suit the purpose and to be along the same design lines with the rest of Theater View (larger buttons, progress bar and other controls)

I agree that most of the functionality in theater view is about there now though. I like the big buttons everywhere, and the fact that we've ditched all the illegible right click menus.

[raym]

Functionaly and with MC at it's core, Theater View is the leader of the HTPC front-end "pack" in my opinion.

Ok, visually it may not be as glossy as some but ....

I will admit however, I LOVE this idea and have wondered myself if this could be possible somehow - maybe in the future:-

I recommend utilizing the main menu more. Like Microsoft MC does.
....
You can scroll vertically and horizontally. This would be great for choosing viewschemes. I could scroll down to video, and then scroll left and right for "Movies" "TV" "Shorts". And it would be one less menu in the navigation pane (the "views" menu).
....

 

[ThoBar]

I will admit however, I LOVE this idea and have wondered myself if this could be possible somehow - maybe in the future:-

Me three, and I think it is much more intuitive for the 'average joe'
C.

[glynor]

I like this idea of adding left-right navigation to the home page in Theater View!  My concern is -- how would you present this as the "second tier" of Theater View choices (when you point to Video for example):



Though...  I do have some ideas.

Perhaps you could display MC's sub-view schemes graphically based on a "Most Often Used" methodology that I brought up once before.

If we had a bunch more icons to choose from in the Edit View Scheme dialog under Step 3 --> Image (with a graphical browser of the icons).  Then we could assign each of the sub-views with icons that are appropriate or intuitive.  The new built-in views could also have these icons assigned (but in a built-in, fixed manner).

Then, each Top-Level View Scheme in Theater View could have a "left arrow" navigation method (like in the Windows MCE screenshot above).  Have it simply show your top three most commonly used sub-views (defaulting to a default set of sub-views that would each be set to "uses=1" so they'd get quickly replaced if they weren't used), and provide a special "Advanced" icon as the fourth choice.  The Advanced icon would take you to the regular listing like in my screenshot above.

You could also have some area of the home page which showed feedback describing what was actively selected (in a translucent status bar area up underneath the header of the page, or at the bottom of the screen maybe), so that you wouldn't have to go entirely by the graphical icons if you didn't want to.  This status bar could come in handy on the other pages in Theater View too because it would give you more room to display the full caption of selected items when you're in Thumbnail view, which would be very convenient!

[glynor]

I made a mockup:


Click to enlarge

It'd be better, of course, to move the center menu (and the new buttons with it) over towards the left. I couldn't do this easily in Photoshop because of the background, but you get the idea.  I'd say selecting Audio should automatically choose the Advanced option (and drill you down into the view scheme), but arrowing over one to the right with Audio selected should take you to the "square thingy" icon (in my mockup).  These icons would be the ones we chose in the Edit View Scheme dialog -- perhaps specific to Theater View, or perhaps they should show in Standard View too.

As others said... This is just an idea for improvement.  Perhaps the current Theater View engine would need lots of work to display a UI like this, so maybe it wouldn't make it into v12 -- but I agree that this is an area that could use work.

The bottom status bar is a cool idea too, even all on it's own!!

[jgreen]

FWIW, I can't help thinking that a lot of the appearance-related comments could be addressed with two EASY and REVERSABLE changes:

1.  Change the current (presumably bold) font to something slimmer, with broader kerning--readability be darned.

2.  Come up with a bg that is mostly blue, and much more contrasty.  If your bg is trying to be subtle so as not to interfere with text, put the text in bubbles.

[park]

I like your mockup glynor. Even with all the same icons, and the staus bar at the bottom it would look nice. I also agree about the justification. Slightly left justified would be nice for the horizontal scrolling and also give added prominence to the spinning cube at the top right. This cube would be put to much better use if it were covered with album art like the tiles in standard view. Then, when it does it quick little shake/jiggle thing, all the cover art could change. Either that, or ditch the cube idea, and create a nice little slideshow type effect in that corner.

I also agree with you jgreen about the color. I use the hairstyle skin at the moment, in part because of the color, but also because I like the frosted glass/blurred bg.

I think that the thing that makes other interfaces look snazzy, is light "glows", blurs and shadows. They add depth to the interface, whereas MC still looks quite flat, even with it's 3D background.

But going back to raym's comments. Though cosmetically, not the leader, MC's theater view is tops for functionality and customization.

[mojave]

You can change the background image very easily with Theater View. Go to Program Files -> J River -> Media Center 12 -> Fullskins -> [Skin Name]. Rename the the background.png file to something else and put your new picture in the folder with the name of background.png. You now have a different background. Below are some modifications of the Blue Too theme.

[glynor]

Below are some modifications of the Blue Too theme.

Wow.  The top of those two is pretty darn cool.  Any chance you'd be willing to share?

[mojave]

Wow.  The top of those two is pretty darn cool.  Any chance you'd be willing to share?

Thanks, but I didn't make the background. I downloaded the background from Interfacelift.com and added it to the Blue Too Theme. I had to make some other changes to the Blue Too Theme to get it to work. I also changed the color of the icons and selection button. I actually only changed one icon for the screenshot. I would need to change the rest.

If you PM me with an e-mail address I can send you the folder for the skin (It is about 6.5 Mb). You can then download the image in the resolution you want and add it to the folder.

[jmone]

Noob Q - how do you get Blue Two working?  JRMC12 installs it just fine but I can never find the option to then select the skin anywhere, eg it is not in:
* Tools > Options > Theater View > Appearance > Skins or
* View > Skins

Thanks
Nathan

[JimH]

It's an older version.

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=40634.msg276969#msg276969

[mojave]

Noob Q - how do you get Blue Two working? 

Open the main.xml file that is in the Blue Too folder with notepad by right clicking main.xlm and selecting Open With -> Notepad. Change the version in the first line from "<MJFS version="2.0">" to "<MJFS version="2.1">".

[maxxsid]

Sorry, I have to disagree here..
I don't care about cosmetics and shnazziness at this stage - this is all.. hmm.. cosmetics.. and already can be customized (it's skinnable after all. not fully though).

Compared to other HTPC front ends MC12 Theater View is not quite mature yet. Just give a try to these free ones - Media Portal and Xlobby.

I am talking mostly about navigation logic here.
Not about blue color scheme and glow-in-the-dark buttons.

Though cosmetically, not the leader, MC's theater view is tops for functionality and customization.

[Matt]

I am talking mostly about navigation logic here.
Not about blue color scheme and glow-in-the-dark buttons.

I searched your old posts, and didn't find any specifics.  Maybe you could explain what you're unhappy about in as detailed a way as possible.

[glynor]

I still like my status bar idea... Even without the other stuff.   

[raym]

I still like my status bar idea... Even without the other stuff.   

Sorry Glynor but that'd just be something I'd want to remove

The side-nav idea is good though.

[maxxsid]

Matt,
I am sorry for not giving any solid specifics.. Can't organize my thoughts..

Here's 2 bullets:
-- Media specific OSD pop-up menus/controls (for keyboard/arrows/mouse/touchpad) in Big Screen. Right now there is no way to drive the Big Screen other than with Remote Control (or with a mouse but not from 10 feet away).

[Maybe I am a minority here, but even with a remote control I prefer to call an OSD menu and use navigation buttons to select Play/Pause/Whatever and then OK/ENTER. In this way one just needs 5 buttons on the remote to do everything + maybe Channel +/- and Vol +/-]

-- ESC key. IMHO, has to step back a level. Big Screen -> Playing Now -> Home -> Exit Theater View

I searched your old posts, and didn't find any specifics.  Maybe you could explain what you're unhappy about in as detailed a way as possible.

[glynor]

I should say... Especially, since you're asking, Matt.   

Some of the things I would really like to see in MC's Theater View before I'd call it a "Polished" HTPC application are:

1. Some way to bring up more information on individual files or groups of files.

This additional info would really be tag info (read only would probably be best).  The display should be fully customizable, but formatted by default with tags that are relevant based on the displayed media type and subtype. It would need to be designed to work within the 10 foot display motif of Theater View of course.  I'd use this a lot to display additional information on video files: Director's name, release dates, plot descriptions for movies.  TV Shows could (maybe) have brief plot outlines, air dates, primary actors.  Stuff like that -- I'd say somewhat for Audio as well.

2. Auto-Filling Tag Data

This goes with the above desire hand-in-hand.  It has to auto-fill as much of this data as is possible.  The best possible option would be for MC to decide based on the [Media Subtype] tag (which needs to be fully editable BTW so we can define our own subtypes -- or give us a bunch more options) to pull info from IMDB, YADB, or TV.com (if possible) or some other TV-focused IMDB resource (or just use IMDB which has some TV series info).

We should still be able to add info manually, and change the auto-filled info.  Perhaps when we change the auto-filled info that those changes should be auto-submitted to YADB (which would help build up the YADB database -- disableable of course).

Meticulously manually tagging thousands of Music songs is realistic for an enthusiast.  Even minimal tagging can yield a usable media application.  But for HTPC Video usage to really take off (and I, personally, think it is going to -- the benefits are already too great) it needs to make a "best guess" effort to do it itself.  The results don't need to be perfect (not for a while anyway), but you can't expect us to meticulously and manually tag the video files all ouselves, when many of them we will only ever watch once.  That is the heart of the difference between Audio HTPC use and Video HTPC use -- Video is semi-disposable.  People will archive some stuff, and throw lots of other stuff away, so you can't realistically invest the time in tagging it all manually.

3. Inter-Tag "Linking"

Theater View needs some method (probably within this "Get Info" display) to "suggest" other related media files and give you access to them.  I'm thinking similar to how IMDB is crosslinked all over, which is part of what makes it a joy to use.  So ... In this Info dialog, we need to be able to select the Series name and jump to the "Series's node" in the view.  We need to be able to pick the director's name and see all of his/her other movies in our collection.  Select the movie's genre and see others of similar ilk.

4. Three words: Electronic Program Guide.

Sorry... Without it, to me MC's TV Tuner support will remain just a toy.  MC needs to be a full-featured TiVO if you want to compete with the likes of Windows MCE, XBox 360, and SageTV type applications.

5. Speed and Stability.

It has to work and feel like a set-top box.  It's actually much more critical that Theater View perform like a greyhound in than in any other mode (save maybe playback but that works well).  That said... It's actually not terrible if you have to wait for something, but if so, it's gotta be something worth waiting for (loading an info dialog maybe?) and it has to tell you what it's doing at all times.  It's not so much the waiting that turns people off, it's the wondering "did it crash" moments -- even if they're short.

It really actually impresses me how quickly MC's Theater View starts up, considering that it is launching essentially a brand new 3D application.  However -- it still feels "laggy" going in and out.  This may be as simple as adding a quick and slickly designed "Please Wait" splash-ish thing up for the second or so that it takes to launch.

That part of it is why I suggested way back when that it might be worth considering splitting all of Theater View off into another Standalone application... Adding this stuff, and improving even more (translucent menus and whatnot) the graphical slickness of the UI, is going to be load-up time expensive.  It might make more sense to uncouple it from the MC Standard View entirely.  I'm not suggesting that they be sold separately (though maybe you could sell the EPG Plugin part of it separately), because a large part of the power of MC is the Standard View UI -- and they should be able to run concurrently (though not necessarily used at the same time since Theater View might need to be a full-screen 3D app in all senses.

Plus, then you eliminate the issues that keep coming up with "were you in Standard View or Theater View", how does the "Display View" need to work (mouse and keyboard close to monitor or 10-foot display oriented).  I'm not suggesting you abandon the unity of the "feel" of the two applications, MC should still look and feel like MC, but uncoupling them could free your hands a bit.  (And you could keep sharing code of course assuming it is built all object oriented as I assume it is.)

[JimH]

-- ESC key. IMHO, has to step back a level. Big Screen -> Playing Now -> Home -> Exit Theater View

Interesting... are other apps doing this? 

[maxxsid]

Yes!

Interesting... are other apps doing this? 

[maxxsid]

Hi Matt,
I was going to post a buncha screenshots from Xlobby but, really, could you please go ahead and try it! It's free, light-weight and will give you a few ideas. I am not saying MC has to mimic any other application (they are not ideal either), but why not take a couple of good points here and there. Why invent the wheel..?
Like that BlueTwo skin for Theater View - it's a hack of a Media Portal skin and everybody seems to like it.

Interesting... are other apps doing this? 

[mojave]

It really actually impresses me how quickly MC's Theater View starts up, considering that it is launching essentially a brand new 3D application.  However -- it still feels "laggy" going in and out.  This may be as simple as adding a quick and slickly designed "Please Wait" splash-ish thing up for the second or so that it takes to launch.

My Theater View starts up instantaneously - a fraction of a second. There isn't even time to see a splash screen. All the pages load extremely quickly, too. I set my frame rate in the Theater View Options to 60fps and that makes everthing smooth and quick. I use an Athlon 64 754 Venice 3000+ processor (clocked to 2600 Mhz) and a Nvidia 6600GT video card in one computer and a 7800GS in another.

[glynor]

My Theater View starts up instantaneously - a fraction of a second. There isn't even time to see a splash screen. All the pages load extremely quickly, too. I set my frame rate in the Theater View Options to 60fps and that makes everthing smooth and quick. I use an Athlon 64 754 Venice 3000+ processor (clocked to 2600 Mhz) and a Nvidia 6600GT video card in one computer and a 7800GS in another.

Hmmm... Interesting.  The 60fps option does seem to have helped.

I just tested it on my office machine (A64 Venice @ 2.4GHz with a X1900XT) and it is now fairly smooth (only the slightest hesitation).  I have a more powerful CPU in my HTPC, but an older video card (an Opteron 165 at 2.5GHz dual-core with a X800XT) and the hesitation is sometimes as much as a 10-second count.  I will have to try the 60fps option on that machine to see if it makes any difference.

[Temeryx]

Some of the things I would really like to see in MC's Theater View before I'd call it a "Polished" HTPC application are:

Great post glynor,  You said a lot of things I have been thinking about, but have been too lazy to write down 

I think a great example for how info should be displayed to the user in a 10 ft interface is a plugin for meedio called MovieNight.  Basically all the info you would want about your movies right there, including the ability to select an actor and see all the movies you have with them in it, and very customizable.  Maybe if I am not so lazy tomorrow I will post a few shots from my setup, or If you want go to the Meedios plugin forums, it will be at the top, and you can read about it.  It's just very cool way to look through your movies, and a great example of getting tag info to the user, IMHO.

You were also talking about getting data from IMDB and TV.com,  Another idea that came from meedio users www.thetvdb.com  It was designed for any HTPC software to access.  They are also building a movie database for the same purpose.     

[jmone]

It's an older version.

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=40634.msg276969#msg276969

Funny it is listed as the only available MC12 Theater View skin on the web site then 

Thanks for the link Jim and mojave for the edit - the hack works fine.

[jmone]

OK this is a longish post so apologies up front.  Since we are talking about TheaterView in MC I thought it would be worth comparing how it fares againts MediaPortal.  I've used MediaPortal (and many other HTPC software) and MC12 wins hands down because of the depth of support within the core product....but as a HTPC I think there are some areas that could raise TheaterView above the pack by tapping the core strenth of the MC12 with a FULL featured HTPC front end....The following is the MediaPortal features straight from their web site and my own subjective view of how MC12 compares.

General
Create your own skins, or choose one of the available skins! MC12   - few skins to date for Theater View (eg BlueTwo the only third party one and it is not that compatible)
MediaPortal can easily be extended with extra plugins MC12   - So far we have RSS and Weather and no doubt more will come.

You decide which keys you want to use for which actions
Internal support for several remote control (streamzap, MCE, redeye, winlirc, hauppauge, FireDTV)  MC12 - does not even support MCE properly

Windowed and fullscreen support MC12 - All good here for me!

My TV
Supports analog TV, DVB-C, DVB-T, DVB-S and ATSC MC12 - got analog, DVB-T, ATSC so
HDTV and AC3 support MC12 - all good here!
Support for multiple tuners MC12 - nope
Record, watch, and timeshift Live TV MC12 - can not record and timeshift together
Advanced recording scheduler:
- Record once MC12 - not from Theater View
- Record now MC12   - you can but it is buried down deep in a menu - need REC buttons on RC's to work
- Daily o Weekly MC12 - Not from Theater View
- Weekdays (Mon-Fri) MC12 - Not from Theater View
- Every time a program appears on this TV channel MC12 - Not from Theater View

Timeshifting,Watch, Pause, Rewind, FF, RW Live TV
Advanced recording management:
- Handle conflicts MC12 - Nope
- Set recording priorities MC12 - Nope
- Quality settings / recording MC12 - Nope
- Transcode to WMD, XVID or MPG MC12 - Nope
- Diskmanagement auto deletes old and/or watched recordings MC12 - Not from Theater View
TVGuide:
- Grab DVB-EPG & MHW-EPG directly for DVB MC12 - Nope
- Supports XMLTV MC12 - Nope
- Colors for genres MC12 - Nope
TV Guide search MC12 - Nope
TV Channel grouping MC12 - Nope
Supports over > 10000 channels MC12   - who cares!
Auto channel tuning MC12   - Yup
Normal OSD (On Screen Display during movies/tv) MC12   - Yup
Special ZAP OSD (Shows description of what is playing currently on TV) MC12 - Nope
Support for Teletext MC12 ? - No idea...
Standby control to put your HTPC sleeping. It will awake when there a recording needs to start MC12 - Nope
 
My Video / MyDVD
Play any movie your PC has a codec for (divx, mpeg, matroska,...) MC12   - Absolutly Kills the opposition...simply the best...full stop.  MP can NOT play MPEG/DTS files for example
All your movies will be stored in MediaPortal's video database MC12 - Kills the opposition...simply the best...full stop
View your movies by actors, genres, year, title - Kills the opposition...but needs mgt in STD View to get the best results
Sort your movies by actors, genres, year, rating - Kills the opposition...but needs mgt in STD View to get the best results
Automatically retrieves video art & info from IMDB MC12   - Video Art is generated internally but ? on the info
Stacking/unstacking if your movie consists of multiple files MC12  - OK for me
Internal DVD player with menu's (you can also use an external DVD player) MC12   - OK but does not support Mutiple Titles/Chapters - only chapters
On Screen Display (OSD) for: Pause, Rewind, FastForward, Stop, Mute, Bookmarks, Switching Audio Streams/Subtitle languages... MC12   - OK for me
Resume from playback on next play MC12   - OK for me
 
My Pictures
Watch your pictures/photos MC12   - OK for me
Slideshow support with nice transitions MC12   - OK for me
Zoom in/out, rotate pictures (rotation is remembered next time) MC12   - Note sure I care about this...
Pause, previous/next picture MC12   - OK for me
Delete picture(s) MC12 - Not from Theater View
Background music, either songs from my music, or radio from my radio MC12   - OK for me for music but have not tried radio
Auto thumbnail generation MC12   - OK for me
Sort in Name, Date, Size MC12   - OK for me
View in List, Icon or Big Icon display MC12   - Text wrap for long file names is still a problem in Icon display
Ken Burns effect slideshow MC12 ? - Who is Ken?
Filmstrip view MC12 - Not sure I care
 
My Music
View your music by artists, albums, genres, top100 or plain songs MC12 - Kills the opposition...simply the best...needs config in STD View
Sort your music in many ways like tracks, genre, filesize, artists, album,... MC12 - Kills the opposition...simply the best...needs config in STD View
Use visualisations from Windows ?Media Player 10 MC12 - Has all I would ever need in side MC12
Load, create & save playlists (.m3u, .pls, .b4u) MC12 - Creation is best done in STD View not Theater View
Automaticlly gets album art & info for all your albums MC12 - works best from STD View
Automaticlly gets artist art & info for all your artists MC12 - works best from STD View
View by list, icons, and big icons MC12 - Text wrap for long file names is still a problem in Icon display
Shuffle, repeat, FF, RW, pause,... MC12 - works best from STD View
Music ratings MC12   - OK for me
Favorites MC12   - OK for me
Party shuffle mode MC12 - works best from STD View
Search music for specific songs MC12 - works best from STD View
Display all your favorite songs in one screen MC12   - OK for me
Utilize Winamp, Foobar or iTunes plugins for music playback MC12   - Kills the opposition as MC12 has all I would ever need built in..

[jmone]

My Radio MC12 - Nope
Listen to your favorite radio stations (FM, DVB or internet stream) MC12  - I've got DVB-T Radio Stations
Auto tuning (FM) MC12 - Nope
Logo's for each radio station (manual process) MC12 - Nope
Supply a friendly name for each radio station MC12 - Nope
Internet radio station streaming (ASX or Shoutcast) MC12 - works best from STD View
Support for external radio tuner applications MC12 - Nope
Auto start listening to your selected radio station when MediaPortal starts MC12 - Nope

My weather
Show the latest weather information MC12  - Yup
Support for multiple cities MC12 - Nope
Current temperature, 3 Day Forecast MC12  - Yup
Temperature (in degrees C/F) MC12  - Yup
UV Index, Humity (%), Wind (mph/kph), etc MC12  - Yup
Support for live images from internet, like: MC12 - Nope...but I'm note sure I care!
- Satellite images MC12 - Nope
- Temperature images MC12 - Nope
- UV Index images MC12 - Nope
- Winds images MC12 - Nope
- Humidity images MC12 - Nope
- Precipitation images MC12 - Nope

More features! Launching external programs like: MC12  - Yup set them up in STDView

Burner let's you burn all type of files and folders directly to CD/DVD from within the MediaPortal interface MC12 - Not from Theater View
Showing RSS news feeds MC12  - Yup just started to support multiple feeds
Read and send mail within MediaPortal MC12 - Nope

Monitor computer hardware: MC12 - Nope...but not sure I would care
- CPU temperature
- Motherboard Temperature
- Hard disk Temperature
- Used Memory
- Used Virtual Memory
- etc

 

[Twit]

My biggest gripe about theatre view is the play button.

1 - Invite all my friends around for a party
2 - Put my playlist on to start the ball rolling
3 - Friends pick up the 'REMOTE' and start browsing
4 - Friend finds a song he has not heard a while and clicks on it then on play in the drop down

5 - MC NOW REPLACES THE ENTIRE PLAYLIST WITH THE ENTIRE ALBUM.

Could we not have this honour the 'double click' option in standard view. I know some people like this, but not one guest I have had has got it correct.

Play - Play ONLY current selected song now then carry on with the playlist (ie add song to top of playlist)
Add - Add song to end of playlist.

There is a 'play all' button that is pointless in the current setup because it always plays all.

Later
Simon.

[maxxsid]

Hey Nathan, thanks for a nice summary!

OK this is a longish post so apologies up front.  Since we are talking about TheaterView in MC I thought it would be worth comparing how it fares againts MediaPortal.  

[Mr ChriZ]

More features! Launching external programs like:
- Games MC12 - Nope
- Emulators MC12 - Nope
- Email application MC12 - Nope
- Internet Browser MC12 - Nope
- IRC client MC12 - Nope

 Tools -> Options -> Theater View -> Add

[mojave]

It would be nice to have a category button on the home page for launching external programs. This way you could have a Games category button that would go to a second page with the games listed. I can currently import game shortcuts into MC. They come in as a media type of data. I can give them a genre of Games and create a view scheme in standard view that shows all the items with a genre of Games. I can even launch the games that way. However, there is no way to view a Documents View Scheme in Theater View (at least that I can find). You don't want your Theater View homepage to have dozens of buttons for external programs.

You can launch an e-mail application or an internet browser, but the they aren't optomized for a 10' interface. IE7 does have a zoom feature that helps, though. Meedio(s) has e-mail and internet browser plugins that provide a much better interface for viewing from the couch.

[jmone]

Thanks ChriZ - fixed the OP.

The point is that all of us Theater View users have been talking awhile about a range of different things, some cosmetic, some features, some navigation etc.  First and formost for me is the requirment to be able to play and manage all my media types - at this MC12 wins hands down!  However, while Theater View satisfies for me a basic and usable HTPC solution (thanks to the strength of the MC12 underneath it) the comparison to MediaPortal (regardless of how flawed and subjective my comments are) really shows how far HTPC SW has developed over a short period of time. 

I would imagine that many prospective HTPC customers are going to be drawn to a Media Portal type solution due to its feature set and presentation layer.  Like me, I assume that others too will then move over to MC12 for its superior management and play support.....but just imagine what the love child of the two approaches could do....

Nathan

[raym]

My biggest gripe about theatre view is the play button.

1 - Invite all my friends around for a party
2 - Put my playlist on to start the ball rolling
3 - Friends pick up the 'REMOTE' and start browsing
4 - Friend finds a song he has not heard a while and clicks on it then on play in the drop down

5 - MC NOW REPLACES THE ENTIRE PLAYLIST WITH THE ENTIRE ALBUM.

Could we not have this honour the 'double click' option in standard view. I know some people like this, but not one guest I have had has got it correct.

Play - Play ONLY current selected song now then carry on with the playlist (ie add song to top of playlist)
Add - Add song to end of playlist.

There is a 'play all' button that is pointless in the current setup because it always plays all.

Later
Simon.

Hey Simon. Very well put and you're suggestion is spot on!

This really NEEDS to happen!! I've been having the exact same problems and requesting the exact same change for as long as I've been using MC. Not a single person at any party I've had has ever worked it out without my help either 

My advice is to cut this post out and stick it in a new thread. I think the more people who flag the fact that this is a REAL problem, the more likely JR will stand up and listen.

[park]

jmone,
interesting to see the comparison like that. I think that the way MC bubdles out organization stuff to standard view is one of it' more positive things. It does mean that you need to do some setting up before you intend to use it, but generally speaking the only person in the house who would use all that functionality is the one who would set it up anyway.

re:

Stacking/unstacking if your movie consists of multiple files MC12 ? - No idea...

MC can sort of do this, if all the video files are given the same album name and viewed as album thumbnailes they'll merge to form a tile. But it requires a lot more work on the user part (ie. copying the name field to the album field) And the "unstacking" would just be entering into that album tile to see the files list.

I'm using Theater view enough now, to have deicated viewschemes for it, that I rarely use in standard view. I'd quite like to see a "Theater view" entry in the tree where I could drag and drop all those viewschemes.

[jmone]

jmone,
interesting to see the comparison like that. I think that the way MC bubdles out organization stuff to standard view is one of it' more positive things. It does mean that you need to do some setting up before you intend to use it, but generally speaking the only person in the house who would use all that functionality is the one who would set it up anyway.

re:MC can sort of do this, if all the video files are given the same album name and viewed as album thumbnailes they'll merge to form a tile. But it requires a lot more work on the user part (ie. copying the name field to the album field) And the "unstacking" would just be entering into that album tile to see the files list.

I'm using Theater view enough now, to have deicated viewschemes for it, that I rarely use in standard view. I'd quite like to see a "Theater view" entry in the tree where I could drag and drop all those viewschemes.

I agree, that exactly how it works in our house and it is one of the reasons I use MC not MediaPortal (and others in its ilk) - I am very happy to use STDView for all the config, setting up views etc as trying to use any 10ft I/F for these tasks would just make it hard (also fixed the comment on stacking - I just didn't know what it refered to). 

[mhakman]

Here is another mockup  It’s not about nice appearance (that I think JR are very good at) but about functionality and information.

You could also vote for this type of Theater View at Theatre View for the living room ideas

There are also some very good ideas in Apples Front Row and Apple TV device.
 

[soulcancer]

why couldnt there be a menu box at the side of the screen where the HUGE buttons are. there are little thumbnails of the 'play' 'stop' 'HOME' stuff like that, but only the main ones you pick. but when you click on the bottom one, say a right face arrow, the old huge words open with their thumbnails next to them. when the box moves out, there are the rest of the buttons that you dont normally use.

plus, there should be some kind of time bar on the song thats playing.  put it in the background of the song tile as a different colored bar that moves left to right as the song plays.

also, you should be able to selece what folders are shown and what arent. like the 'year' folder 'genera' folder when you select video.

and one click plays! right click opens that little pull down menu!

[mhakman]

The View I envision, which should not replace current Theatre View, but should be there in addition to, do not require mouse nor keyboard only a remote control. Consequently there is no clicking on anything. You select things by moving a marker using remote’s arrows from item to item. Exactly as you do on your current TV, DVB, DVD box etc screens displayed on your TV screen.

[jacky]

before I download and give it another try, has the Theater View improved to reflect the suggestions mentioned above?

[glynor]

before I download and give it another try, has the Theater View improved to reflect the suggestions mentioned above?

Many of them, but not all.  There have been a huge number of improvements to Theater View with recent beta builds (which are now available in the public build).  Read these threads for more info (make sure to read through them all, because they were discussions as the changes developed):

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=40785.0
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=40832.0

I'm quite a bit more happy with usability in Theater View.  Core "look and feel" issues were not addressed (I think we'll need to wait until v13 for a new "look").  However, it is quite a bit more usable now.