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[andiflint]

Hi, I'm fairly new to the program and am having real trouble connecting to the internet via MC12.

I have quite recently installed 12.0.0365 which fixed my problem synching ipod, but I cannot get the program to connect to the internet (to check for updates, get cover art, google search from the start page etc).

Pretty sure I have the firewall settings correct; I have tried adding 'Media Center 12.exe' to the list of apps allowed access and have checked the appropriate ports are open.

Please help!

Many thanks
Andi

[JimH]

You shouldn't have to do anything other than allow MC to connect outside your network.  If it isn't working, it's probably a firewall issue.

What error do you get when you try "Check for updates", for example?

[pauls]

I cannot download any updates from the website or the forum.  The last version I was able to get was MediaCenter12.0.279.exe but since then I get a "425 Failed to establish connection" when trying to download.  I have the product registered.  Internet explorer has a similar problem but does not return an error message.  I have tried copying the link and pasting into Flashget but no luck there either.  I have also tried the Update Check in MC but get the message "Failed to connect to a server".  The internet service I have is running quite well and I have no other download issues with other product or web pages.  I was also forced to do a complete reinstall of windows 2 days ago so I expected the problem would no longer occur but it is the same.

[Alex B]

I guess that a firewall doesn't allow ftp downloads. Either it does not allow any ftp downloads or it does not allow them from J River's IP address. It is also possible that a firewall blocks only certain programs.

[Mr ChriZ]

I once had a case where an ISP was getting over zealous
with their filtering.  I sent them an email and they unblocked
the site I was trying to reach.  I moved ISP
shortly after and never had it happen again.

[JimH]

I've just merged two similar topics.

[JimH]

Have you installed any new software or updates lately?

Who is your ISP?

[andiflint]

My ISP is Sky

Nothing new installed recently. I have a Netgear router, NVidia firewall and run AVG.

All other programs connecting to internet fine - but I've never acheived a connection from MC.

Will post the error messages tonight when back on home PC.

Many thanks

[bob]

A couple of easy tests...

1) In a dos window do:
tracert ftp.jriver.com
see if it get's there.

2) In i.e. try: ftp://ftp.jriver.com and after that http://ftp.jriver.com.
The first should five you a directory listing, the second should say "No index here!"

Report results please.

[andiflint]

the trace route listing is below

both urls worked fine in both firefox and IE - directory listing and no index message as expected


Having tried the connection from MC again, I am no longer receiving one of the error messages I received before - I used to get an error when for example selecting 'Check for updates' - now I just get a small progress dialog that appears, then very quickly vanishes and no further message. I'm afraid I can't remember the text of the message that I used to receive.

From the start page, if I try a google search, I just get 'This feature requires an internet connection'

If I try to download cover art from the internet, it looks as though it is working for a second or so, then comes back with 'Done getting cover art. (took 0.00)' - but has not downloaded anything.

---

Tracing route to ftp.jriver.com [198.73.82.66]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.0.1
  2    88 ms    94 ms    79 ms  cr1.thbk.uk.easynet.net [82.108.10.242]
  3    77 ms    76 ms    75 ms  82.111.104.130
  4    77 ms    79 ms    80 ms  easynet-ic-121677-ldn.b4.c.telia.net [80.239.193.110]
  5    78 ms    79 ms    80 ms  ldn-b4-link.telia.net [80.239.193.109]
  6    78 ms    79 ms    78 ms  ldn-bb1-link.telia.net [80.91.250.234]
  7   147 ms   146 ms   147 ms  nyk-bb2-pos0-2-0.telia.net [213.248.65.94]
  8   148 ms   148 ms   149 ms  nyk-b1-link.telia.net [80.91.250.165]
  9   150 ms   149 ms   149 ms  p12-1.ir1.nyc-ny.us.xo.net [206.111.13.25]
 10   150 ms   151 ms   205 ms  71.5.169.1.ptr.us.xo.net [71.5.169.1]
 11   183 ms   185 ms   251 ms  p6-0-0.RAR2.Chicago-IL.us.xo.net [65.106.0.29]
 12   193 ms   195 ms   195 ms  p6-0-0.MAR2.Minneapolis-MN.us.xo.net [65.106.6.206]
 13   198 ms   195 ms   198 ms  ge13-0.CLR1.Minneapolis-MN.us.xo.net [207.88.84.54]
 14   197 ms   231 ms   199 ms  209.220.252.2.ptr.us.xo.net [209.220.252.2]
 15   206 ms   203 ms   201 ms  fa1-0-0.sms-2.dc511.msp.lightedge.com [64.247.192.190]
 16     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 17     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 18     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 19     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 20     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 21     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 22     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 23     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 24     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 25     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 26     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 27     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 28     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 29     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 30     *        *        *     Request timed out.

Trace complete.

[andiflint]

Further to above, I have just noticed that attempting to connect via the Check for updates method no longer creates any logs in my firewall - which I am pretty sure it did before (when I was getting the error message).

In case it is useful, I tried again whilst running the log function - extract of what appear to be the relevant lines below:

0006203: 5788: Reader: CInternetReader::Open: Start
0006203: 5788: Reader: CInternetReader::Open: Opening http://www.musicex.com/cgi-bin/redirects/MC/v12/redirect.pl?type=Update&prodname=Media Center&version=12.0.365
0006203: 5776: Reader: CInternetReader::Thread: Start
0006203: 5776: Reader: CInternetReader::DownloadFromHTTPURL: Start
0006312: 5776: Reader: CInternetReader::DownloadFromHTTPURL: HttpSendRequest error: 12029
0006312: 5776: Reader: CInternetReader::DownloadFromHTTPURL: Failed (header status code: -1)
0006312: 5776: Reader: CInternetReader::DownloadFromHTTPURL: Finish (109 ms)
0006312: 5776: Reader: CInternetReader::Thread: Finish (109 ms)
0006312: 5788: Reader: CInternetReader::Open: ConnectToURL failed, m_bConnectError=TRUE, URL=http://www.musicex.com/cgi-bin/redirects/MC/v12/redirect.pl?type=Update&prodname=Media Center&version=12.0.365
0006312: 5788: Reader: CInternetReader::Open: Finish (109 ms)

[bob]

The traceroute is good (It stops one hop before the server, the server is firewalled).

The url for update is also good.

There is a problem with networking on your PC I believe. Go into lan connections and disable any unused lan interfaces (like firewire, etc by right-clicking on them and doing a disable).

Other possibilities include the dialup networking adapter which should not be enabled if you aren't using it and VPN. If you have a VPN to work for example and it's not configured properly it may try to send all packets down that default path.

Oh, one more possibility, a corrupted NAT table on your router (try powercycling it). If you find that's the case you may want to look for a firmware update for it.

[andiflint]

please excuse me being a relative luddite - but exactly where do I need to check for the things you refer to?

the only item listed in Network Connections is to nvidia network card (to connect to the router)

the only network adaptor listed in Device Manager is again the nvidia one (no dial-up)

I don't have a VPN setup

just tried powercycling the router and it doesn't seem to have made any difference - is it still worth looking for a firmware update or if that hasn't even solved it temporarily, is that not necessary?

thanks!

[JimH]

Power everything on your network down and power back up, starting at the router, and waiting 30 seconds in between.

If that doesn't work, contact your ISP.

Other possibilities.  Test on another PC.  Test at another location.

[andiflint]

will do - thanks

[pauls]

Have you installed any new software or updates lately?

Who is your ISP?

My ISP is Optus in Australia.  I have had this same download problem since 12.0.279.exe and that was when my Windows install was about 3 years old and most likely bloated from thousands of audio program installations.  I installed a completely new windows a few days ago and after Windows, and the drivers for my sound and video card, Media Centre was the first thing I installed and tried to update.  And the download problem was exactly the same as before.

[JimH]

Again, it's about 100 to 1 that the problem is not with MC but with your system or network configuration.

What firewall do you use?

Can you test the same program in another location?  Just to prove that it's not MC...

[pauls]

Again, it's about 100 to 1 that the problem is not with MC but with your system or network configuration.

What firewall do you use?

Can you test the same program in another location?  Just to prove that it's not MC...

Since I reinstalled Windows I have been using ZoneAlarm free version.  But before that I used the windows one.  Now I have disable the windows default, but I tried downloading with and without ZoneAlarm running.

 Are you saying I should install MC and/or try to download the update somewhere else.  I'll give that a try.  But I still think it is more than a little odd that it started recently, and has continued now after a clean install.

Would it help to know that I own over 50 commercial audio plugins and several audio applications that have regular updates that I have no problem downloading? Plus other software such as CopyToDVD, Sony Vegas, Sony DVD Architect, Acronis True Image, Memories on TV, Power Archiver, Steinberg Wavelab, Imageline FLStudio, Mackie Tracktion, Line 6 Gearbox....... No problems downloading any of them either.

[pauls]

Can you test the same program in another location?

Which program?

[Alex B]

Which program?

Jim tried to ask if you can try the same program setup with some other internet connection outside your home (for example, if you have a laptop and you can try it at work or at a friend's place etc.).

As I said before, the "425 Failed to establish connection" message seems to be related with ftp connection problems (you may want to try Google). Do you have the FTP ports 20 and 21 open?

You could try e.g. this ftp test page:
http://www.wormly.com/test_ftp_server

Write ftp.jriver.com in the "FTP Server" box and press the test button.

In addition you could try other ftp server addresses like ftp.microsoft.com.

[pauls]

You could try e.g. this ftp test page:
http://www.wormly.com/test_ftp_server

Does this mean anything to you?  Looks successful to me.

Resolving hostname...
Starting FTP Test...
* About to connect() to ftp.jriver.com port 21
*   Trying 198.73.82.66... * connected
* Connected to ftp.jriver.com (198.73.82.66) port 21
< 220 Welcome to the ftp.jriver.com FTP service.
> USER anonymous
< 331 Please specify the password.
> PASS [email address removed by JimH]
< 230 Login successful.
> PWD
< 257 "/"
* Entry path is '/'
> EPSV
* Connect data stream passively
< 229 Entering Extended Passive Mode (|||49684|)
*   Trying 198.73.82.66... * connected
* Connecting to 198.73.82.66 (198.73.82.66) port 49684
> TYPE A
< 200 Switching to ASCII mode.
> LIST
< 150 Here comes the directory listing.
< 226 Directory send OK.
* Connection #0 to host ftp.jriver.com left intact

[Alex B]

It looks good. Strange.

Could you try a separate FTP client program for downloading the builds?

Here is a free and good FTP client: http://filezilla-project.org/

[JimH]

It looks good. Strange.

I agree it looks good, but it isn't strange.  The test connects from outside Paul's network.  The network is likely to be the problem.  Firewall or router.  The only other possibility is his ISP.

[Alex B]

I agree it looks good, but it isn't strange.  The test connects from outside Paul's network.  The network is likely to be the problem.  Firewall or router.  The only other possibility is his ISP.

You are correct. I had that test in my saved links, but I didn't remember what exactly it does. It can be used for testing if an ftp server is accessible from the test site's address.

A better test would be to try the FileZilla client program.

BTW, are you still providing the HTTP download method as an option? I guess the other downloads pauls has successfully tried were HTTP downloads.


pauls,

Can you connect any ftp address? E.g. ftp.microsoft.com

[JimH]

BTW, are you still providing the HTTP download method as an option? I guess the other downloads pauls has successfully tried were HTTP downloads.

Yes.  You can replace any ftp: download link with an http: link.

For example:
http://ftp.jriver.com/pub/downloads/MC12/MediaCenter120375.exe

[bob]

Replacing the ftp link with a http link is a good strategy to see if you can actually connect to the site. Another way to test this is by using MS telnet to start an ftp session.

do:
start->run
in the command box type in:
telnet  ftp.jriver.com  21
you should get back:
220 Welcome to the ftp.jriver.com FTP service.
next type in the following (you won't be able to see what you are typing, just the results):
user ftp and hit return.
you should see:
331 Please specify the password.
then type in:
pass foo and hit return.
you should see:
230 Login successful.
next type in:
pwd and hit return.
you should see:
257 "/"
next type in:
pasv and hit return.
you should see:
227 Entering Passive Mode (198,73,82,66,79,143)
with the last 2 numbers being different.
finally type in:
quit and hit return.
The telnet window should go away.

report results! This simply tests whether or not you can get a simple ftp connect initiated though the windows tcp/ip stack. If this works, I'm assuming your firewall or router is blocking outgoing connects on port 20 which is the ftp data port. If it doesn't work, you are getting blocked on port 21 which is the command port at some point in the chain.

[pauls]

Yes.  You can replace any ftp: download link with an http: link.

For example:
http://ftp.jriver.com/pub/downloads/MC12/MediaCenter120375.exe

Ok, 2 things.  Do I just need to put "http://" in front of the ftp address?  If so then its all good.  This download worked.

[glynor]

Ok, 2 things.  Do I just need to put "http://" in front of the ftp address?  If so then its all good.  This download worked.

That means your computer, your firewall, or your ISP is blocking FTP traffic (but not HTTP traffic).  I'd strongly suggest you try the steps Bob outlined above.  This would tell us what port is being blocked.

[pauls]

Replacing the ftp link with a http link is a good strategy to see if you can actually connect to the site. Another way to test this is by using MS telnet to start an ftp session.

do:
start->run
in the command box type in:
telnet  ftp.jriver.com  21
you should get back:
220 Welcome to the ftp.jriver.com FTP service.
next type in the following (you won't be able to see what you are typing, just the results):
user ftp and hit return.
you should see:
331 Please specify the password.
then type in:
pass foo and hit return.
you should see:
230 Login successful.
next type in:
pwd and hit return.
you should see:
257 "/"
next type in:
pasv and hit return.
you should see:
227 Entering Passive Mode (198,73,82,66,79,143)
with the last 2 numbers being different.
finally type in:
quit and hit return.
The telnet window should go away.

report results! This simply tests whether or not you can get a simple ftp connect initiated though the windows tcp/ip stack. If this works, I'm assuming your firewall or router is blocking outgoing connects on port 20 which is the ftp data port. If it doesn't work, you are getting blocked on port 21 which is the command port at some point in the chain.

It all worked as you said it should.  Except for after I typed "quit", the window did not go away, but just gave a line that said something like disconnected.

[bob]

Ok, one last test.

Do exactly the same sequence of events but instead of quitting, after doing the pasv take the last 2 numbers from the pasv (which will always change), multiply the first by 256 and add the second in. For example after doing a pasv I got:
227 Entering Passive Mode (198,73,82,66,136,47)
so I do (136*256)+47 = 34863

Then do the following command in your telnet window:
NLST

Next do start->run and typing in:
telnet ftp.jriver.com 34863
(replace 34863 above with your port number as calculated):

You should get a short list of files in that second telnet window and the first window should then say:
150 Here comes the directory listing.
226 Directory send OK.

report back results!

[pauls]

report back results!

[andiflint]

Back again - still having problems.

After a couple of attempts at speaking to my ISP and getting no useful help, I started playing round more myself.

If I completely turn off my firewall (nvidia), then MC seems to be able to connect fine, which I guess suggests that I have some settings incorrect.

Is there a definitive list of ports / services etc that I need to setup and allow access to? I've browsed through these forums and the wiki and can't find anything.

Cheers!

[JimH]

Try google or wikipedia for the standard ftp ports.  21 and 23, I think.

That should be easy to set in your firewall.  Usually ftp is named.

[andiflint]

Thanks Jim

I have opened 20 and 21 which seem to be standard for ftp - do all of the MC features like cover art lookup, check for updates and the webs search page all use ftp then?

I have also added Media Centre 12.exe to the list of apps allowed access to internet

Are there any other settings I should be checking?

[KingSparta]

Not sure if this is relevant

When a server is in passive mode, there must be a set of ports that are free so the server can select one to communicate on. these ports must also be in the firewall setup.

a server with a router also needs to have the ports forwarded from the router to a local network IP address.

To check if this is a firewall or router problem you can simply take out the router, and or firewall and test it.

if it works with the firewall and not the router it will be a router config problem, if it works with the router and not the firewall it is a firewall problem.

if this is on a company network, some ports may be blocked by the IT deparment.

[bob]

The source port in a passive connect is a random port > 1024. The destination is the one returned by the port command for example: "227 Entering Passive Mode (198,73,82,66,79,143)" = 79*256+143 from my example above. If the firewall is blocking all outbound ports including non-privileged ones (>1024) you will not be able to do ftp (as well as some other stuff). In the examples above, Pauls' dump shows he was getting the proper response so the problem is not his firewall. There still may be an MTU issue perhaps but not a firewall setup issue.

[pauls]

The source port in a passive connect is a random port > 1024. The destination is the one returned by the port command for example: "227 Entering Passive Mode (198,73,82,66,79,143)" = 79*256+143 from my example above. If the firewall is blocking all outbound ports including non-privileged ones (>1024) you will not be able to do ftp (as well as some other stuff). In the examples above, Pauls' dump shows he was getting the proper response so the problem is not his firewall. There still may be an MTU issue perhaps but not a firewall setup issue.

Thanks bob, So what is the MTU issue all about?

[bob]

If there is a router in your pathway to our server that doesn't accept a packet of the full size that your system is advertising (usually 1500 bytes), the packets > than that size would get permanently dumped. This would indicate a bug in the router firmware or that someone on an intervening router has it locked down too much (there are certain icmp sequences that can be used to determine the best MTU of a path using something called "MTU path discovery"). If a router accepts none of these icmp sequences AND it restricts the MTU (because of a hardware type transition, say ethernet / ppoa) you may run into this problem.

Sorry, it's pretty complicated. You could try a google on "MTU PATH DISCOVERY" and you may find a better explanation than what I just gave.

BTW, you said that the http download worked (quite a while ago in the message thread) if that's still true, you cannot be having an MTU problem, it would affect http as well as ftp packets.

[pauls]

BTW, you said that the http download worked (quite a while ago in the message thread) if that's still true, you cannot be having an MTU problem, it would affect http as well as ftp packets.

That's correct.  Http works.