Topic: CCCP A Bit Slow (Read 5721 times)

benn600 · « **on:** January 05, 2008, 11:14:48 am »

I'm getting a little slower than expected framerate with CCCP. I also have the Hauppauge software on the computer and using its DVD decoder yields perfect results. I'd rather use CCCP if I can. What settings should I try adjusting to speed it up a bit?

JimH · « **Reply #1 on:** January 05, 2008, 11:17:30 am »

You might try the DirectShow info in the Wiki.

glynor · « **Reply #2 on:** January 05, 2008, 12:27:44 pm »

The DVD/MPEG-2 decoder in CCCP isn't high-performance at all. To get best performance, you should use a hardware accelerated MPEG-2 decoder (assuming your video card supports it). Even if yours doesn't, you'll likely get better performance from a more specialized MPEG-2 decoder. Even the CCCP FAQ recommends using an alternative if one is available -- especially since CCCP's decoder does not work with Windows MCE or WiMP.

The Cyberlink (PowerDVD) decoder supports basically all the major hardware, but has some real DirectShow problems and doesn't always work well with other players. Nvidia's PureVideo decoder is very nice (but not free) and works with all Nvidia cards that support hardware acceleration. ATI provides a free decoder with most of their cards (made by Cyberlink) which works quite well (and is what I use now).

benn600 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 05, 2008, 04:57:52 pm »

I have our DVDs available on our server and it seems quite important to get a very good DVD decoder system. I'm still really confused about this whole issue. People usually say a cheap DVD player will provide better upconversion and overall picture quality than a computer but I'm stuck because I want the computer method.

So what is the way to get the best picture quality with the fastest decoder, etc? I'm noticing with CCCP the FF/RW feature doesn't work very well at all. PowerDVD provided better results on that front. But can I install PowerDVD without it taking over file associations? I see it just tells the user what associations it will take over without an option. I'm willing to spend money on it too because it will be peanuts compared to what is already invested in hardware now.

MrHaugen · « **Reply #4 on:** January 07, 2008, 06:03:05 am »

PowerDVD is the bottom of the line when it comes to picture quality. I only use it, when I need something that just works, fast.
I have installed CCCP only now, and have noticed a bad hickup when FF/RW my self, but I do belive that this have more to du with my inzane upscaling and sharpening etc. The processor is pushed to the limit as it is.

A few months ago I only used Dscaler to decode my DVD's though. It's supposed to be one of the best. I guess you can use that combined with ffdshow, or maby as a stand alone filter from within the DVD picture settings in MC.

MerlinWerks · « **Reply #5 on:** January 07, 2008, 09:48:37 am »

Quote from: benn600 on January 05, 2008, 04:57:52 pm

So what is the way to get the best picture quality with the fastest decoder, etc? I'm noticing with CCCP the FF/RW feature doesn't work very well at all. PowerDVD provided better results on that front. But can I install PowerDVD without it taking over file associations? I see it just tells the user what associations it will take over without an option. I'm willing to spend money on it too because it will be peanuts compared to what is already invested in hardware now.

Well, if it does steal the associations, just take them back through MC

What flavor video card do you use? Check this out. Although, I'm sure it can be used with either of the majors, it's obviously going to be optimized for nVidia cards. Also, if you need to output only spdif from the htpc to your receiver/processor you can get the cheaper "Bronze" package as it will output multichannel DD over spdif.

I also believe there is a trial period available before you buy.

glynor · « **Reply #6 on:** January 07, 2008, 10:48:03 am »

Yeah... I'd recommend checking out Nvidia PureVideo too. It has very nice quality and plays nicely with DirectShow applications (without stealing all kinds of filter priorities and filetype associations). It has the added bonus of being compatible with the MPEG-2 hardware acceleration built into some Nvidia video cards. It works just fine with ATI cards though as well (and onboard Intel graphics) just without hardware decode acceleration. And, yes, they have a 30-day trial.

Not a huge fan of PowerDVD at all. I don't even like to install it on my systems. It is less the file type association stealing that makes me mad (that's easy to fix) but the fact that it sets all of it's filters to highest priority for a bunch of things that have nothing to do with DVD playback (h264 video will often completely break for example).

statious · « **Reply #7 on:** January 07, 2008, 10:57:55 am »

Quote from: glynor on January 07, 2008, 10:48:03 am

Yeah... I'd recommend checking out Nvidia PureVideo too. It has very nice quality and plays nicely with DirectShow applications (without stealing all kinds of filter priorities and filetype associations). It has the added bonus of being compatible with the MPEG-2 hardware acceleration built into some Nvidia video cards. It works just fine with ATI cards though as well (and onboard Intel graphics) just without hardware decode acceleration. And, yes, they have a 30-day trial.

Not a huge fan of PowerDVD at all. I don't even like to install it on my systems. It is less the file type association stealing that makes me mad (that's easy to fix) but the fact that it sets all of it's filters to highest priority for a bunch of things that have nothing to do with DVD playback (h264 video will often completely break for example).

I have to go with this recommendation. I use Purevideo with my 8800 and a combination of FFDshow (which I hope is configured right to keep hardware acceleration). I like FFDshow for many of its processing abilities. Purevideo alone looks great but honestly, when I completed the ffdshow setup it looked tremendously better. It is also a cheap buy as I use a SPDIF pass-through so there is no need for the higher levels for the program.

In my opinion, nuke CCCP and go at it one codec at a time. The more you have the more opportunity for issues.

glynor · « **Reply #8 on:** January 07, 2008, 12:10:18 pm »

Quote from: statious on January 07, 2008, 10:57:55 am

In my opinion, nuke CCCP and go at it one codec at a time. The more you have the more opportunity for issues.

I don't know that I agree here. CCCP includes things you basically need for most computer-based playback types (MPEG-4 compressed containers), and really nothing you don't. I just don't use its DVD decoding, because there are better alternatives. If you read the Advanced CCCP FAQ, they even state that the DVD Playback Filters are included with a very low priority score because they are only included as a backstop in case the user has nothing else to handle it.

benn600 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 07, 2008, 01:36:21 pm »

So it sounds like I need to buy the NVidia one, right? I definitely need the $30 version but do I need the $50 version? Wonder if that would let me use it on the computers in my house?

Like I said, I absolutely need to buy whatever is the best out there. We're talking fastest, best quality, etc. I'm not worried about $50 when I look at the cost of everything else we have: server, htpcs, dvds, cds, etc. Without software, the previous items are worthless.

I want the amazing FF/RW I have seen before, too. Now can I try the Nvidia codec in a trial? And I still need CCCP for playback of other video formats so installing it should still be apart of my install procedure...nothing lost then.

Addition: I see the trial now.

benn600 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 07, 2008, 01:38:28 pm »

So what is this hardware decoding of DVDs on video card? If I have a video card that supports hardware MPG2 decoding will the Nvidia program automatically pick that up and use it? How do I know if my cards support it? My desktop has a $400 graphics card so I would assume it has DVD decoding. But what about my lower end cards: $200, $50 ? Could they also or definitely not?

How will the best configured Nvidia DVD playback compare to a upconvert DVD player on a 1080p display?

glynor · « **Reply #11 on:** January 07, 2008, 01:51:35 pm »

Here's what Nvidia provides for video acceleration details: http://www.nvidia.com/docs/CP/11036/PureVideo_Product_Comparison.pdf

MPEG-2 decode hardware has been built-in to the GPUs since the GeForce4 line I believe. This doesn't make much of a difference in CPU usage with modern CPUs at all though, as your CPU can decode the DVD without breaking a sweat (dropping from 3% CPU usage to 1% CPU usage doesn't provide much benefit).

It means a lot more with HD content right now, but the picture on that is much murkier (and doesn't apply to the DVD decoding anyhow).

benn600 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 07, 2008, 02:09:47 pm »

I think we have one nVidia graphics card total. The rest are ATI or onboard (Intel). Will I have any trouble using the nVidia DVD codec? I doubt it but will I?

So I will try the trial and may buy it.

glynor · « **Reply #13 on:** January 07, 2008, 02:16:09 pm »

Quote from: benn600 on January 07, 2008, 02:09:47 pm

I think we have one nVidia graphics card total. The rest are ATI or onboard (Intel). Will I have any trouble using the nVidia DVD codec? I doubt it but will I?

So I will try the trial and may buy it.

You shouldn't have any trouble. I've used it with my ATI cards without issue. However...

If any of those ATI cards are All in Wonders, you can get the ATI DVD Decoder for free. Download the newest ATI Decoder from their web site (but to install it you need to have access to your original ATI Driver Install Disc). The ATI DVD Decoder works with most ATI cards with hardware acceleration (you need the install disc for an All in Wonder card to be able to download it, but you can use it with non-AIW cards), and generally has slightly better decode quality than the Nvidia one. It also has the added benefit of being free if you happen to have a "qualifying product". (I think any of the ATI-based TV Tuner cards also "qualify" if you have the original disc that came with them.)

ATI's decoder is Video-only, so for Audio FFDSHOW is still used and so the other "extra" benefits of the PureVideo decoders aren't important.

For me, even if I was going Nvidia, I'd always just get the cheap PureVideo decoder and use FFDSHOW for audio anyhow!

MerlinWerks · « **Reply #14 on:** January 07, 2008, 02:23:15 pm »

Quote from: benn600 on January 07, 2008, 01:36:21 pm

So it sounds like I need to buy the NVidia one, right? I definitely need the $30 version but do I need the $50 version? Wonder if that would let me use it on the computers in my house?

How many systems do you have where you are using the multi-channel analog outputs?

statious · « **Reply #15 on:** January 07, 2008, 02:59:15 pm »

Personally, I have never been a fan of all-inclusive codec packages. I know many swear but them and if it works for you stick with it if you have no problems.

As for purevideo, you only need the $30 version. I assume you run a pass-through to a receiver and FFDSHOW is perfect for any additional audio processing.

JimH · « **Reply #16 on:** January 07, 2008, 05:16:33 pm »

Quote from: statious on January 07, 2008, 02:59:15 pm

Personally, I have never been a fan of all-inclusive codec packages.

They are a great help on the support side. It's hard to provide help if the codecs are unknown. It would be great if we could distribute a set that we know works, but it's probably risky from a legal point of view.

benn600 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 07, 2008, 08:37:29 pm »

I'm in luck. I have just that. I will try it but I don't remember having great luck with the decoder in the past.

benn600 · « **Reply #18 on:** January 07, 2008, 11:22:27 pm »

That didn't help, either! I installed the nVidia trial and first of all, starting a DVD takes longer than I like. Second, audio doesn't even work unless I use auto selection or the CCCP item. Using the Nvidia audio item yields no audio. Also, the picture quality just looks horrible. It could be my imagination but I really think it looks much worse compared to CCCP.

FF/RW work close to expected but not as nice as I remember PowerDVD working. I honestly think PowerDVD worked great as far as speed/quality/general workingness. I wanted to get away from it because it steals associations. Is there a way I can install the PowerDVD codec/stuff without the player or associations?

I'm not sure why but it seems like with DVD playback it is just problem after problem. If only I could find a working solution as this is very important.

Jean-Max · « **Reply #19 on:** January 08, 2008, 01:15:21 am »

Quote from: benn600 on January 05, 2008, 11:14:48 am

I'm getting a little slower than expected framerate with CCCP.

Hello,
On my Vista Vaio FZ11Z laptop with last J River MC, I installed CCCP to have codecs for quite any video format

But .. I noticed that the frame rate was only 25 or 30/sec for Mpg Pal or Ntsc HDV videos
I noticed that FFdshow video codec was choosen by J River MC
Nb : Choosing Interlacing in FFdwow didn't accelerate the framerate..

Because on this Vaio Laptop, there was pre-installed: "Intervideo Win DVD 8 for Blue ray player", I choosen "intervideo video codec" as DirectShow filter for HDV videos in "select filter" inside J River MC , during playing this kind of HDV video

=> OOHH miracle : framerate grows to 50 or 60 im/sec and now, I have a perfect fluidity in MC for HDV videos :-)

Question :
=> How has made this Intervideo codec, to be able to double the framerate ?

Thanks

Jean-Max · « **Reply #20 on:** January 08, 2008, 11:04:20 am »

Quote from: glynor on January 05, 2008, 12:27:44 pm

Nvidia's PureVideo decoder is very nice (but not free) and works with all Nvidia cards that support hardware acceleration.

Yes, but it's not VISTA OK

glynor · « **Reply #21 on:** January 08, 2008, 03:08:05 pm »

Quote from: statious on January 07, 2008, 02:59:15 pm

Personally, I have never been a fan of all-inclusive codec packages.

Neither have I. I was a vocal opponent of most of them for a long, long time. However, CCCP is different. It is, by no means, an "all-inclusive" codec package. It doesn't try to be the be-all and end-all of codec packages, but to simply provide a well-supported, simple, and consistent install package that Just Works for most things. It doesn't do much that is "fancy" and doesn't include a bunch of badly supported stuff you'll never need.

Look through what is included in the Advanced FAQ. I think you'd be hard-pressed to argue that anything they include is "damaging" or "dangerous". Even the very few things you could argue are unnecessary, say the Gabest MPV Decoder, they even configure certain filters to have low merit scores on purpose, so that they're only used as backups. About the only thing I disagree with in the CCCP Package is their choice of FLV Splitters (Gabest's old one rather than a more recent filter, such as Celtic_Druid's), but that is easily rectified.

Basically, in theory I agree with you. However, in practice, CCCP wins out. It "does no harm", is an easy way to get most people going without them having to learn all of the ins-and-outs of DirectShow, and makes support so much simpler.

glynor · « **Reply #22 on:** January 08, 2008, 03:08:58 pm »

Quote from: Jean-Max on January 08, 2008, 11:04:20 am

Yes, but it's not VISTA OK

I would change that statement to be:

Vista is not OK.

Sorry... It just isn't there yet for SO much software. It isn't just Nvidia. Look before you leap.

MerlinWerks · « **Reply #23 on:** January 08, 2008, 03:16:40 pm »

Quote from: benn600 on January 07, 2008, 11:22:27 pm

That didn't help, either! I installed the nVidia trial and first of all, starting a DVD takes longer than I like. Second, audio doesn't even work unless I use auto selection or the CCCP item. Using the Nvidia audio item yields no audio. Also, the picture quality just looks horrible. It could be my imagination but I really think it looks much worse compared to CCCP.

FF/RW work close to expected but not as nice as I remember PowerDVD working. I honestly think PowerDVD worked great as far as speed/quality/general workingness. I wanted to get away from it because it steals associations. Is there a way I can install the PowerDVD codec/stuff without the player or associations?

I'm not sure why but it seems like with DVD playback it is just problem after problem. If only I could find a working solution as this is very important.

What OS are you running?

How long does it take for a DVD to start?

For audio, are you trying to use spdif pass-thru or analog outputs?

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but as far as associations are concerned, even if PowerDVD steals some can't you simply go to Options>Associations in MC and steal them back?

glynor · « **Reply #24 on:** January 08, 2008, 03:37:32 pm »

Quote from: MerlinWerks on January 08, 2008, 03:16:40 pm

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but as far as associations are concerned, even if PowerDVD steals some can't you simply go to Options>Associations in MC and steal them back?

That is true for file-type associations. However, PowerDVD's install wreaks havoc on the DirectShow Filter merit scores as well, and these are far more difficult to fix.

I generally have to resort to completely de-registering a bunch of their filters manually, as they don't seem to properly obey manually setting them to a Do Not Use Merit Score.

benn600 · « **Reply #25 on:** January 08, 2008, 08:05:30 pm »

I'm the type of person who would not be happy till I reformat because weird things get screwed up.

XP.

It can take 5 seconds for a DVD to start. I'm just a fan of what I know everything is capable of--less than a second. I like the idea of all my DVDs on the server providing several benefits: easy access, instant/very fast start time, amazing FF/RW performance, etc. I want the best in all categories. A check in every row!

CCCP is good (in my experience) but it requires some configuration before it even works and there still are issues. Nvidia doesn't work for me. PowerDVD, if I recall correctly, worked perfectly for me everywhere except with DVD Menu playback (it stuttered there only), but it messes the system up.

I just want the PowerDVD codec stuff.

Jean-Max · « **Reply #26 on:** January 10, 2008, 02:23:43 am »

Quote from: glynor on January 05, 2008, 12:27:44 pm

Nvidia's PureVideo decoder is very nice (but not free) and works with all Nvidia cards that support hardware acceleration.

Quote from: Jean-Max

Yes, but it's not VISTA OK

Quote from: glynor on January 08, 2008, 03:08:58 pm

I would change that statement to be: Vista is not OK.

Yesss : you are right !!
, but... no matter : The Nvidia purevideo hardware chip engine acceleration is perfectly used by other codecs than original Nvidia Purevideo codec :

I tested Cyberlink Video codec from PVDV7 and Intervideo Video Codec from WinDVD 8 :
In the 2 cases, the hardware decoding Mpeg-2 acceleration of Nvidia card is perfectly used (test on 7600GT, 6600GT, 7800GS and 8400M GT)
=> 50 im/s and perfect fluidity for my HDV videos

glynor · « **Reply #27 on:** January 10, 2008, 08:07:55 am »

Oh yes. It is certainly not the only one that supports the Nvidia hardware acceleration. Those applications also support the ATI hardware too, which is nice if you have some of each.

I don't have a serious problem with those decoders, once you get them configured to not break all kinds of stuff. I'd just rather not have a bunch of big, bloated players installed that force me to fix all kinds of stuff.

However, it just dawned on me. Benn... This is probably the solution for you!

PowerDVD SE: http://www.cyberlink.com/multi/cyberstore/order_10_ENU.html

Quote

This decoder software allows you to watch DVDs using Windows Media Player to play and navigate your movies. It does not include PowerDVD's interface, advanced audio technologies, or controls.

There is a separate version for Vista here: http://www.cyberlink.com/multi/cyberstore/order_122_ENU.html

Corel (who owns Intervideo, the WinDVD people) also has a similar product: http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satellite/us/en/Product/1177441133801

It looks like the Corel one definitely supports Nvidia PureVideo acceleration, and might be a better deal. I'm not clear on if the Cyberlink one does or not (but at first glance it looks like not).

benn600 · « **Reply #28 on:** January 10, 2008, 10:09:47 am »

Quote

However, it just dawned on me. Benn... This is probably the solution for you!

PowerDVD SE: http://www.cyberlink.com/multi/cyberstore/order_10_ENU.html

Now is this touted as the worst one? Am I the only one who can't get Nvidia working? How about everyone tell me what you are using in your production/real-world environment? What are other people using?

glynor · « **Reply #29 on:** January 10, 2008, 10:29:05 am »

I'm using ATI's Cyberlink Decoder (the one I discussed above) for most of my machines. On one I use CCCP (I hardly ever play DVDs on it) and one other I use Nvidia PureVideo.

benn600 · « **Reply #30 on:** January 10, 2008, 10:30:55 am »

I think I have the ATI card/discs you are referring to. I still have the DVD installer, too. When I tried to install it it said no compatible hardware is present. Where can I get the download for the codec? I have the original CDs (two of them...we have two All-In-Wonder cards--AGP + PCI one).

glynor · « **Reply #31 on:** January 10, 2008, 11:36:57 am »

Quote from: benn600 on January 10, 2008, 10:30:55 am

Where can I get the download for the codec?

Quote from: glynor on January 07, 2008, 02:16:09 pm

If any of those ATI cards are All in Wonders, you can get the ATI DVD Decoder for free. Download the newest ATI Decoder from their web site (but to install it you need to have access to your original ATI Driver Install Disc).

It does require an ATI GPU to install. It does the CD-check too before you can download the actual installer, so you'll also need to own an AIW card and still have the CD. You don't need to actually have the AIW card installed to use it though. I use mine on non-AIW cards (I have the ATI decoder installed on my X800XL box and on my X1900XT box), but I'm not sure if it works with ALL ATI cards, or only certain ones.

benn600 · « **Reply #32 on:** January 10, 2008, 01:24:16 pm »

I have ATI cards in almost all of my systems. I will try it when I get home tonight. Sorry I missed the link.

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Author Topic: CCCP A Bit Slow (Read 5721 times)