Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[marko]

"The Fly" is not designed to be eye candy. It's predominantly grey so as not to distract from the library contents, and personally, I find working with files over lengthy periods a lot easier this way.

The spark that spawned this update was the sudden need for a tab design that improved on the MC default.
Much of the discussion below pushes development of the tab design which I think worked out quite nicely in the end.
They work particularly well with thumbnail views. I really like the result, I hope you do too. If you like the skin, comments are always welcome.





The only downside for those that have a lot of missing coverart is that the default 'missing art' image does not sit very well on the list background.
If that bothers you, you can make a folder at "C:\Program Files\...\Media Center 12\Data\Custom Art" and place the image below in there...

right click > save image as... (don't change the filename)

(Note that as long as this file exists, it will be used in every skin)

Preview:

NoThumbAudio

Updated (28/01/2018)
Almost forgot about this one, the one that started my foray into MC skinning...
It has now been given a new tag window skin too.
Download is via a Media Center package installer file which is attached to this post. Simply download the file and double click to have MC download and apply the skin.
Package installer files only work on Windows. If using another OS, open the mjp file in a text editor, copy the download link and manually install the downloaded skin into your MC standard view skins folder.

Updated (24/11/2019)
Added suitable colours for the new MC 26 waveform progress bar.

Updated (29/01/2023)
Integrity checked xml vs filenames. Skin should now work correctly on Linux.
Added a Spotlight button.
Set the Spotlight page background colour.
Cleaned up the look of the inactive tabs. They are now much easier to read, and live with.

Edit (04/02/2023):
Updated attached mjp file, which should now work for Linux and Mac as well as Windows.

-marko.

[StFeder]

Nice & clean! I like it.

Anyway I'll stick with 2nd Stage for home use, because this one looks so great (sorry ). Perhaps I'll use your skin for some dancing lessons, because it may be easier to use for some people who don't use MC every day...

Three small, on big thing I'd like to say:

1st small: I think th name is no good choice. I'm not talking about "The Fly" but about "!The Fly (current)". For a normal user it may be confusing to read "current" behind the not currently used skin. At least it was for me... Also the exclamation mark is a bit distracting.

2nd small: I'm not sure if the tab design easyly leads to the active tab. The unactive ones getting much attention because of their design.

3rd small: The contrast between the rows in list view is a bit to small on my monitor (tft). But I'd guess this is related to my monitor...

4th big: I like the skin and the fly-idea is fantastic!

[Magic_Randy]

Nice. Thanks for sharing it.

[marko]

Three small, on big thing I'd like to say:

1st small: I think th name is no good choice. I'm not talking about "The Fly" but about "!The Fly (current)". For a normal user it may be confusing to read "current" behind the not currently used skin. At least it was for me... Also the exclamation mark is a bit distracting.

I swear I changed that. It was the last thing I did before uploading the zip. I obviously dicked that step, which has now been fixed.

2nd small: I'm not sure if the tab design easyly leads to the active tab. The unactive ones getting much attention because of their design.

I guess it would be naturally easy for me to see.
I'll have a look at it again while awaiting further comments.

3rd small: The contrast between the rows in list view is a bit to small on my monitor (tft). But I'd guess this is related to my monitor...

There's not a lot of difference on my Acer tft here either, though, to be honest, I quite like it that way. I find that the indicator that shows in the list as the mouse passes over each file more than sufficient when it comes to targeting something in a list.

4th big: I like the skin and the fly-idea is fantastic!

Thank you. Thanks also go out to the various authors whose work I have shamelessly used in this skin, especially to Dave who made the action window, which I think is great.

-marko.

[dcwebman]

Thanks for the update but I think I prefer the previous tabs because I can easily tell every one is a tab, especially the first one instead of blending in with the MC icons. I kind of like the fly on the scroller though.

[KingSparta]

Can You Make His Wings Move?

[robydago]

very nice skin marko!
just out of curiosity: i can't see the fly; is it supposed to be there all the time or only in some cases\status? (it appeared only once and very quickly disappeared and I don't remember what I did)

so far, i really like this skin, but IMHO tabs are not that good, compared to the rest of the skin.

ciao,
roberto

[marko]

Nice. Thanks for sharing it.

You're welcome. Any comments regarding the tabs?

Thanks for the update but I think I prefer the previous tabs because I can easily tell every one is a tab, especially the first one instead of blending in with the MC icons. I kind of like the fly on the scroller though.

The previous tabs were just the MC default tabs that are used in any skin that does not contain specific tab instructions. I found these to be quite difficult to follow when using 'dropdown panes', where the pane headers get placed inside the tab itself. I came up with these tabs as I felt they greatly helped with this new, dropdown panes feature.

Can You Make His Wings Move?

I've no idea! I wonder if an animated gif image would work in there? I may try it after I get these tabs sorted out.

very nice skin marko!
just out of curiosity: i can't see the fly; is it supposed to be there all the time or only in some cases\status? (it appeared only once and very quickly disappeared and I don't remember what I did)

so far, i really like this skin, but IMHO tabs are not that good, compared to the rest of the skin.

ciao,
roberto

The fly is at the leading edge of the progress indicator and comes out of hiding when you hover the mouse there while a file is playing. You can then grab it and drag it to a different point in the file and it hides when the mouse moves away. I could make it always visible, but felt it would be better the way it is.
Anyone else?

And yet another thumbs down for the tab design.
I will have another stab at them.
In the meantime, has anyone used the tabs with dropdown panes enabled?
If so, do you still feel the same about them?

Give me a couple of days to see what I can come up with, my understanding is that the inactive tabs are still too 'in yer face' making the active tab harder to target. Let me know if I got that wrong.

Thanks for all the feedback,
-marko.

[StFeder]

my understanding is that the inactive tabs are still too 'in yer face' making the active tab harder to target. Let me know if I got that wrong.

You're right for me!

[robydago]

marko,
on tabs:
maybe you should also consider that selected items anywhere else in the interface are darker than unselected ones, so maybe the active tab should be somehow darker then the inactive ones?

on the fly:
i'll try when i'm home
if you wanna go for always visible, pick a nicer animal, please
 

[KingSparta]

pick a nicer animal

Insect

Maybe A Tarantula Walking

[Magic_Randy]

I think the tabs are just fine. I can clearly see which tab is in focus which is the most important to me.

The other suggestions are also fine, so I will not object to further improvements. As an example, making the tab in focus darker than the ones not in focus may be a better approach. That also clears up the issue that the first tab bends in with the rest of the skin.

[marko]

Having kicked this about for a bit, I'm still not convinced enough to introduce any changes, except for maybe to make the inactive tabs a little darker!!

Yup, darker!!

maybe you should also consider that selected items anywhere else in the interface are darker than unselected ones, so maybe the active tab should be somehow darker then the inactive ones?

Not quite true. First, witness the default Noire tabs...

Now, there's not a lot in it, but if I was pushed, I'd say the active tab here is lighter than the inactive ones.
So, why are these allegedly easier to target than the current Fly-tabs? I would say that's maybe down to the lines defining the tab edges.
still with me?


First, MC with no tabs...



and the current fly tabs...

^shows the first tab selected.


^shows second tab selected.
I like to think, especially when compared with 'no tabs', that this view is really quite intuitive. Others don't agree, so, what's the alternative?


Simpy make the inactive tabs darker?

^shows the first tab selected.


^shows the second tab selected.


Maybe add some defining lines?

^shows the first tab selected.


^shows the first tab selected.
I really don't like this.


For kicks, even though I'm not keen, I won't dismiss something without trying it first...
 I began messing around with a darker active tab...
How about a 'top-down' tab style?


^shows first tab selected


^shows second tab selected.


I've previewed this post and agree, it's not the easiest to view, but do try to follow it and let me know what you think.
Each varient shows two images, one with the first tab selected, and one with the second selected.

"Top down" is interesting and unique, but I'm not convinced. Using it for a bit to see if it grows on me.

[robydago]

^shows first tab selected


^shows second tab selected.

marko,
imho the active tab should blend more with the image right behind you it. maybe you could try adding a top dark strip (a few pixels high) to the currently white part where the thumbnails are shown.


see firefox for example:

[marko]

imho the active tab should blend more with the image right behind you it.

My original idea was that it wouldn't just 'blend more', it would actually be a part of the view.
I know, I use firefox. I use UltraEdit, and Directory Opus too, which both employ tabs, in their own ways.
We all know what tabs are by now, do we really need to dark strips to map them out for us?
I ommitted them purposefully, looking for a cleaner, more flowing look/feel.

have we not gone full circle here?
'blend more' is, imvho, just what it does at the moment.


-marko.

[robydago]

marko,
when MC is set to use the fly skin, it's always maximized and it's not resizable; is that by design?

ciao

[marko]

no.
works here just fine.
I wonder though, what screen resolution do you run at?
The Fly has a minimum size set at 1024 x 768

Do I need to set that smaller?

[robydago]

The Fly has a minimum size set at 1024 x 768

and that's exactly my notebook max resolution.
no problems on my desktop with a 19" monitor

Do I need to set that smaller?

i dunno,  i don't really need it and if you set that as the minimum size there must be a reason

[ThoBar]

I like the 2nd version tabs much better. I think it helps that the selected tab is a bit more defined from the background.

Personally, I'd like the action window to go back to the squared look, to take the whole wdith of the tree pane, ala Noire.

On my machine at least, the left couple of pixels seem to be a bit out, near the control buttons, and near the bottom bar.

Otherwise, this is my new fav. skin

[marko]

Bleedin' tabs are driving me nuts!!!

Morning confishy, thanks for your comments...
1. The action window has to stay, Dave got that spot on, im,vh,o, of course
2. I think I've sorted the left edge pixel stuff. (available via the link below)

robydago, the link below has a minimum size setting of 800 x 600. Better for you like that?

I thought I'd nailed the tabs from the get-go, and have been kind of aimlessly messing around with different things over the week, so, to that end, the link below includes something I came up with last night...
How do 'button tabs' grab ya?


This release also contains updated menu images, plus a not-fully-tested progress indicator. That's the one that shows during handheld syncs, acquire from camera etc. etc.
Let me know what you think.

-marko

[StFeder]

robydago, the link below has a minimum size setting of 800 x 600. Better for you like that?

Better for me, too!!

I thought I'd nailed the tabs from the get-go, and have been kind of aimlessly messing around with different things over the week, so, to that end, the link below includes something I came up with last night...
How do 'button tabs' grab ya?

Very easy to use in this version.

[Magic_Randy]

I think you solved tabs

I like the new button design.

[marko]

Two thumbs up for button tabs... nice one

Moving swiftly along....

Personally, I'd like the action window to go back to the squared look, to take the whole wdith of the tree pane, ala Noire.

This got me thinking... maybe it is time to have a stab at a new action window...
Only thing I know right now though, is that if I do land on anything suitable, it won't be 'ala Noire'. For me, the action window is one of Noire's weakest areas.

-marko.

[dcwebman]

Personally I like the rounded look of the Action Window. Some of the side white space could be lost but the rounded corners are nice.

[robydago]

marko,
thanks for the 800x600 fix
sorry but i still don't like your tabs... great skin anyway!

i'm working on tabs on this skin myself (but i have zero experience with skins so i'm very slow!) so we'll see if i'm only good at complaining...

btw, does anyone know the answer to the following question?

How do I set different text colors for the active tab and for the inactive tabs?
I'm trying to use white text in the active tab only and black text in all inactive tabs.

ciao

[marko]

Sorry robydago, I don't know. I'm not even sure it's possible without jriver adding something first. I tried disabledtext and inactivetext and neither worked. It certainly makes things trickier when using contrasting colours, even more so when the colours chosen drastically affect the visibility of the forward/back/refresh icons on the far left.

Just to keep anyone watching this up to speed...

I've revisited the tab bar (again) and gave it a bit more polish:


I've almost settled on a new action window:


Still got some tweaking to do. Getting the colours right is a real pain, and I'm hoping for a quick fix to an options list skinning problem. Hope to have an update available by the end of the week.

-marko.

[marko]

I think I'm done.
It's still 'The Fly'. The player buttons are modded Noire items, as are the checkbox and radio buttons. The frame buttons are still Dave's from his Opus skin.
Transformation was, at times, erm, 'difficult', but overall, a pleasure to work on.



As always, enjoy, and if you have any comments, good or bad, please do
If this 'RC' release flies well, it will replace the default download, so, if you liked the cream action window, back it up (I have a copy here if anyone goofs)

-marko.

[Magic_Randy]

I've been using this version of The Fly for a few days now and I am really quite happy with it.

Hopefully, "the silence gives consent"


-marko.

I like it. Thanks...

[StFeder]

I like your final version, too! It's just the tabs I tuned a bit I liked to use a mix of the tab layout you used in your first (public) version and your I think second public version. So for me it looks like this:



Thank you and all the others for offering this clean and easy to use skin!

[marko]

Updated:

Equaliser now has visible slider tracks.
Greyscaled OSD display border (photo slideshow captions etc.).
Updated default button.
Updated 'group boxes' (search wizard, advanced cd options etc.).
Added border to horizontal slider background.
Added custom 'tree expansion' images (no more arrows).

Did I break it yet?

-marko.

[skeeterfood]

Not sure if I like the oO's instead of arrows in the tree, but if you're going to do it, I think the Action Window's Minimize and Restore icons should match.

Also, the green "dot" next to the volume slider doesn't really show that it's a mute button and a drop-down menu in any way and it stands out in an otherwise nicely muted interface.  I replaced it with the icon from Noire.

-John

[StFeder]

"The Fly" is not designed to be eye candy.

Really?

Equaliser now has visible slider tracks.
Definitly nicer than before! But if didn't say I wouldn't have noticed 
Updated 'group boxes' (search wizard, advanced cd options etc.).
Much better!

What about the white line all around the window in standard view?

Nice fine tuning. I liked it before and still do! The custom 'tree expansion'... shouldn't this be small flyes

[marko]

skeeterfood:

Not sure if I like the oO's instead of arrows in the tree, but if you're going to do it, I think the Action Window's Minimize and Restore icons should match.

I've been using them for a few days now, and I'm kind of 'so - so' about them. I will revisit this idea, possibly ditch it altogether and return to the default skin arrows. I don't like the green in the expanded icon. (so why did I use it? ... good question ?)

Also, the green "dot" next to the volume slider doesn't really show that it's a mute button and a drop-down menu in any way and it stands out in an otherwise nicely muted interface.  I replaced it with the icon from Noire.

I'm surprised this didn't get a mention earlier. It's definitely on the list as the green is way out of place up there. Really, there shouldn't be any colour anywhere aside from the icons, which I have neither the skill nor the time to do anything with; I think I just about get away with the blue in the tab bar. I'll return to these at some time in the very near future.

What's a 'skeeter' btw?

StFeder:

Really?

That was the original plan, yes!!
I keep tinkering with it though. The original skin was basically noire without colour and Dragyn's action window bolted in. I now have a much better understanding of how the skin XML works, note, better, not complete, and subsequently, this recent work has been squarely aimed at completing the transformation using as much of my own work as possible. There's not much left in there now that's not mine, which feels much better.

Equaliser now has visible slider tracks.
Definitly nicer than before! But if didn't say I wouldn't have noticed 

I didn't notice how bad they were myself until last week as I'm not in there too often. Quite horrible if you make heavy use of it though, so yes, better now.

Updated 'group boxes' (search wizard, advanced cd options etc.).
Much better!

Thanks

What about the white line all around the window in standard view?

I introduced that to accentuate the tabs in the tab bar. It really didn't look right when only present at the top, and seemed to upset the balance when blended to black down the sides, so I sent it all the way round. You don't like it?

Nice fine tuning. I liked it before and still do! The custom 'tree expansion'... shouldn't this be small flyes

Believe it or not, I thought about it, but no, I decided that would be too much without even trying it out!!

On the 'to do' list at the moment is the volume icon and the tree expander. I'm also considering taking the fly out of the progress bar (the one that shows during an ipod sync etc., the one hidden in the progress bar will stay)

Thank you both very much for your continued feedback, it really does help, and I'm glad you're enjoying my work.
I'll post back after a little more tinkering.

-marko.

[StFeder]

You don't like it?

No. I'd like to tell you why, but my english isn't good enough to do, so I hope the picture shows why I think so:



It looks absolutly displaced to me. Only the lower right side looks well designed.
Plus: I don't really like the big contrast, so I wouldn't like a single line at the top, too.

I'm also considering taking the fly out of the progress bar

When I saw this the first time, I wasn't sure what to think about this. But it fits. I dont't think this'll bother someone, so you may leave it there as some kind of 'trademark'...

"The custom 'tree expansion'... shouldn't this be small flyes "
Believe it or not, I thought about it, but no, I decided that would be too much without even trying it out!!

I as well think, this wouldn't be a good choice, but it would definitly be a funny one!

[KingSparta]

How About Have Him Clean His Feet

On Poorly Rated Tracks Have Him Barf.

[JimH]

Thanks for that.  I was right in the middle of my lunch.

[KingSparta]

Not To Worry

Fly Eggs Take 12 To 24 Hours To Hatch, And Stomach Acids Will Kill Any Larva.

[skeeterfood]

What's a 'skeeter' btw?

Slang for mosquito.  We've got a lot of those little bloodsucking beasties around here.

-John

[marko]

Also, the green "dot" next to the volume slider doesn't really show that it's a mute button and a drop-down menu in any way and it stands out in an otherwise nicely muted interface.  I replaced it with the icon from Noire.

I find it really difficult working on things this small. I wanted to create something easy on the eye and instantly identifiable as volume options...
I feel I have failed so far. The attched zip file contains the two files needed to see the best I've come up with. Not much to show for the ammount of time spent on it!!
I'll kick it about a bit longer, but if I don't have a eureka moment in the next day or two, it'll be these, or the green dot.

Also:
I removed the white line from the main window edge several days ago and while I still think it gave the tabs a bit of a lift, I'm not missing it, so it I'll leave it out.

Question for you all:
How do you find file selection? - Do you think 'focussed' vs. 'unfocussed' needs more contrast?
I had a rather scary moment while working with some recently imported photos. The view I use to do this includes every photo in my library, seperated by a grouping that keeps the tagged and untagged files apart. This means that all keywords are available in the keywords pane and makes the job easier...
While previewing in 'fit to window' mode with the tree hidden, using only the keyboard to flip through the files 'shift + deleting' the rubbish, I missed the fact that the preview window had lost focus and subsequently 'shift+deleted' 8+ years worth of photos!!
I was up and running again reasonably quickly thanks to comprehensive backups, some 'deleted file recovery' software and a recent library backup, but I was still annoyed.
I decided that the selection image needed to give better visual feedback and have spent a fair ammount of time kicking that about too, and still not arrived at something I'm happy with, though I have fixed that dark band that would appear when the fade in menu showed under the thumbnails, so not all bad news!

Not had a chance to look at the tree expanders yet, though I don't think the spot method would work well in the action window.
I'm expecting to be able to get away with greyscaling the green spot, but if recent experience is anything to go by, it'll probably be a lot more involved than that!!

I'll post more news as and when it's available.
-------------

Not To Worry

Fly Eggs Take 12 To 24 Hours To Hatch, And Stomach Acids Will Kill Any Larva.

Gross!

[marko]

Hokay folks, I'm done. I cannot spend any more time on this.

Changes:
updated the 'focussed / unfocussed' look
updated the tree expander image
removed light line around program border
reworked the 'volume options' button
tweaked the action window borders a little (now 2 pixels all the way round)
updated the action window 'minmise / restore' buttons.

Thanks to all the contributors to this thread this final release of my skin is a very different fly to the one I believed to be 'finished' back in the beginning of July. Thank you all for your helpful feedback.
The links in my first post have been updated, I trust you like and enjoy the results.

regards,
-marko.

[dcwebman]

Great job marko! I did rename the name of it to "The Fly 2" just in case I get nostalgic and want to use the original. 

[marko]

Thank you for taking the time to post that, not many people do, it's appreciated.

[Khazar]

I have to say that every thing that I saw about this skin made me want to get it. I downloaded the skin and MC12 processed it but after that no luck. Your thoughts please.

[marko]

yup... The links in this thread d'load a zip file. The contents of that file need to be extracted to a folder manually.

Hope you enjoy the skin.

-marko.

[Khazar]

Thank you very much. Works like a champ. Keep p the great work and look forward to MC 13

[Fabricio]

Update skin please for MC 15.

In the Display/movie the option of arrows it does not working correctly. Sorry. My english is bad.

[marko]

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure what you mean. Could you describe in more detail, perhaps post a picture?

If I can fix it, I will.

-marko

[Fabricio]

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure what you mean. Could you describe in more detail, perhaps post a picture?

If I can fix it, I will.

-marko

Ok. Sorry.

The options the select stream whith arrows not working. Look:



Do you understand now?

Thanks.

[marko]

Yup, I see now, but, it appears to be working just fine at my end...



Can you confirm that, for the same file, using a different skin, you can read the screen menus?

I tested just now using my main PC monitor, not my TV, which reminded me of a little problem I experienced with my "Black and Blue" skin. I never managed to work out why, and still don't know, as I changed the colours in the end and all has been fine there since then. [Link]

If you can see the menus with other skins, but not The Fly, I wonder if a colour change is in order here too?

-marko.

[Fabricio]

Only with Skin "The Fly" it is not working (Any video).
With skin "Black and Blue", without problem.

Look in "Black and Blue":



I like skin "The Fly".