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[JimH]

The other thing that suprised me, and I know this came up a while back, but I'm just kinda shocked that this is still present, is that MC is unmuting my PC when it starts.

What are your Startup settings for Volume?

If you mean startup after a complete MC shutdown, I think we have to unmute the volume, or we will have a lot of inexperienced users asking why it doesn't play.

[Doof]

What are your Startup settings for Volume?

If you mean startup after a complete MC shutdown, I think we have to unmute the volume, or we will have a lot of inexperienced users asking why it doesn't play.

My startup settings for volume are all disabled.

I really couldn't disagree more. We expect them to figure out View Schemes, smartlists, searches and filters, file tagging, CD-ripping/burning, file conversions, setting up auto-import folders, audio analysis, and DirectShow filter settings, but unmuting their own audio is too much for them? For real? Should MC take it upon itself to make sure their sound drivers are installed correctly as well? If I want to silently preview some video files without disturbing the people around me, then I mute the audio. MC shouldn't second guess a user decision. I don't expect MC to override my system settings. And it's a little presumptious and rude of it to do so.

[GHammer]

Hear, hear!

I do not like any app changing what I have manually set. Especially if I did not use the app to make the change to begin with.

I agree that unmuting sound is not rocket science. Figured out how to mute it didn't they?

[ThoBar]

my 2c...

Un-muting internal volume = OK
Un-muting system volume = Not OK

Options to specify preference= Very OK

[Alternative] Warning that volume is muted when MC starts = OK

[JimH]

I believe this has been the default behavior for several years.  It's odd that this would be an issue now.

Ghammer, there are plenty of examples where the startup layout is different than the one at shutdown.  Windows, for instance.  Word, etc.

[Doof]

I believe this has been the default behavior for several years.  It's odd that this would be an issue now.

This "feature" first reared its ugly head in October, in build 13.0.59:

13.0.59 (10/13/2008)

2. Changed: Starting playback will clear the mute state of the player.

There was an immediate backlash against it, as evidenced by this thread which was started the same day, in which you even said:

I agree.  Who suggested this change?

And then, it was made even worse the following day with build 13.0.60:

13.0.60 (10/14/2008)

2. Changed: Mute is cleared on program startup instead of when starting playback.

So, no. It hasn't been the default behavior for several years. The only difference between the two behaviors is that the first incarnation would never let you playback anything with the sound muted. We at least can now, but MC still has no business taking it upon itself to decide what's "right" for me. I wanted my system muted. I don't need to explain myself to my applications.

Ghammer, there are plenty of examples where the startup layout is different than the one at shutdown.  Windows, for instance.  Word, etc.

I don't even understand what this means.

[JimH]

There was an immediate backlash against it, as evidenced by this thread which was started the same day, in which you even said:

"I agree.  Who suggested this change?"

I was joking.  I had suggested it.

[Mr ChriZ]

It would be nice if it could warn that the system volume is muted.
I don't have a wife, but I do have a Mum.  Son support systems Ltd like this idea.

[Doof]

I wouldn't mind if it was an option that by default was turned on. At least then I could take back control of my own PC.

[MusicHawk]

MC doing things "automatically" or "by default" is a can of worms. I estimate that most on this forum see MC as a power-user powerful media management tool to configure as desired (that is certainly why I chose it), and we reasonably think MC should respect how we set it up.

That said, once MC's power-user sets it up, it would be nice to have a grandma-proof mode that DOES make it easy to play and hard to screw up. Maybe that should literally a mode that can be invoked, similar to the various other modes, but maybe locked-down, and with separately controlled options such as AUDIO-ON, NO-EDIT, access to views/playlists controlled per list (for instance, so a view used for music management, tagging, whatever, can be set to not appear in the USER UI, but only in the ADMIN UI).

Having two-levels of UI in MC would not be unusual. This has been common practice of several database development platforms, which long-ago implemented two levels, USER and DEVELOPER: Microsoft Access, FileMaker, Visual FoxPro, Lotus Notes, etc. The idea is to prevent an end-user from seeing/doing/changing things that the power-user/developer set up, for everyone's protection.

My workaround for MC's AUDIO ON surprise is to keep headphones plugged in.

[glynor]

Just to chime in with my 2¢... I agreed with the outcry with the "old" implementation in build 13.0.59.  That implementation was absolutely unacceptable.  However, in my opinion, this was certainly not made "worse" by the subsequent tweak in build 13.0.60...

The current behavior is mildly annoying to experienced users, but an acceptable compromise as far as I'm concerned.  I support plenty of "not fantastically computer savvy" users.  System Volume muting confusing these users is something I've encountered regularly.  This solves that issue, so I can see why they want to do it that way.

[nuke2000]

MC doing things "automatically" or "by default" is a can of worms. I estimate that most on this forum see MC as a power-user powerful media management tool to configure as desired (that is certainly why I chose it), and we reasonably think MC should respect how we set it up.

That said, once MC's power-user sets it up, it would be nice to have a grandma-proof mode that DOES make it easy to play and hard to screw up. Maybe that should literally a mode that can be invoked, similar to the various other modes, but maybe locked-down, and with separately controlled options such as AUDIO-ON, NO-EDIT, access to views/playlists controlled per list (for instance, so a view used for music management, tagging, whatever, can be set to not appear in the USER UI, but only in the ADMIN UI).

Having two-levels of UI in MC would not be unusual. This has been common practice of several database development platforms, which long-ago implemented two levels, USER and DEVELOPER: Microsoft Access, FileMaker, Visual FoxPro, Lotus Notes, etc. The idea is to prevent an end-user from seeing/doing/changing things that the power-user/developer set up, for everyone's protection.

My workaround for MC's AUDIO ON surprise is to keep headphones plugged in.

I agree with the sentiment. Default behaviours thay you cannot overide are irritating for 'administrators' (for want of a better word) especially when they are behaviours not present in earlier versions. IMHO default behaviours need to be configurable by admins - any excuse to mention it again but pausing video on exiting display view is my no 1 most irritating introduced feature of late (not important to others perhaps, but a real bummer for me). Regarding mute - I see both sides but personally if i turned on any equipment (TV, HiFi, mp3player, whatever) and could not hear sound the first thing i would do is press volume up, not assume a fault with the equipment or software. So i say let the user decide and leave introduced new behaviours configurable (the un-muting behaviour doesnt bother me in the slightest, but like pausing video is for me it obviously irritates some immensely). Make all this stuff an option you can set for 'Granny Mode' or any mode you like.

Granny mode configurable by admins - what a fab idea  

***edit - If a 'Granny mode' were to be intoduced, if we could add restrictions to access / view protected content it would stop my Gran accessing all the totally innapropriate material she seems so intent on viewing 

[glynor]

any excuse to mention it again but pausing video on exiting display view is my no 1 most irritating introduced feature of late (not important to others perhaps, but a real bummer for me).

Perhaps this changed back with current beta builds, but this isn't happening to me.  What are you doing to exit from display view?  Just pressing ESC or F11 or double clicking?  Because all of those work fine for me and don't pause video playback.

I may have missed this change (I do have a vague recollection of some discussion about it but I wasn't heavily involved), when I was all busy with my job changes.  If it stayed that way, I'd be right in there yelling with you.

[Doof]

I think what it boils down to is that anything that's done automatically is great as long as

A. It's automatically doing something you want done automatically
B. It's doing that thing correctly

If the automatic process doesn't meet both those criteria, then at best you have to do it manually, at worst you have to clean up the mess the automatic process left and then do it manually anyway.

Some things that MC does automatically:

• Import Media found on the system
• Analyze Audio when importing media
• Download cover art
• CD lookup
• Unmute audio
• Set volume
• Check for updates

I'm sure there's more but that's enough to illustrate my point.

Of that list of 7 things, only 5 of them are things that I want to happen automatically. Those are

• Import Media found on the system
• Analyze Audio when importing media
• Download cover art
• CD lookup
• Check for updates

So these items fit criteria #1. Unfortunately, not all of these fit criteria #2. Those that do are

• Import Media found on the system
• Analyze Audio when importing media
• Check for updates

All of the rest don't do it correctly, IMO. Sure, the automatic cover art download will successfully download cover art if it finds it. But it's usually not the best quality and sometimes it's just plain wrong. Likewise with the CD Lookup. So I only have MC set up to perform the three things in the list above.

So why am I singling out unmuting the audio? Because of all the items on that list, it's the only one I have no control over. I can disable everything else in that list but this one thing. Other than this one item, I can tailor MC to automatically do or don't do what I want.

All I'm asking is for a checkbox that let's me decide if this is something I want done for me. I've done enough coding to know that this should be a five minute fix. MC can have it turned on by default. I don't care. Just let me shut it off.

[Doof]

***edit - If a 'Granny mode' were to be intoduced, if we could add restrictions to access / view protected content it would stop my Gran accessing all the totally innapropriate material she seems so intent on viewing 

This already exists. View -> Access Control

[glynor]

All I'm asking is for a checkbox that let's me decide if this is something I want done for me. I've done enough coding to know that this should be a five minute fix. MC can have it turned on by default. I don't care. Just let me shut it off.

I don't disagree.  In fact, there's already a good checkbox there, so they don't even need to have a new option.  If "Optimize Volume for best Sound Quality" or "Set Volume to:" are both disabled, then MC should leave the current mute status alone.

[nuke2000]

Perhaps this changed back with current beta builds, but this isn't happening to me.  What are you doing to exit from display view?  Just pressing ESC or F11 or double clicking?  Because all of those work fine for me and don't pause video playback.

I may have missed this change (I do have a vague recollection of some discussion about it but I wasn't heavily involved), when I was all busy with my job changes.  If it stayed that way, I'd be right in there yelling with you.

Hiya

It is specific to theatreview, whatever way you exit fullscreen whilst playing video it pauses the now playing

[nuke2000]

This already exists. View -> Access Control

Yes but it hides content from the admin also.

[Doof]

Yes but it hides content from the admin also.

So are you proposing that MC introduce some kind of login system for your grandma?

[nuke2000]

So are you proposing that MC introduce some kind of login system for your grandma?

My Granny mode comment was entirely lighthearted - i thought the wink may have gave that away

[nuke2000]

• Import Media found on the system
• Analyze Audio when importing media
• Check for updates

I don't care. Just let me shut it off.

Exactly the settings i do not mind having as default as they are the only ones that will not overwrite / overide anything with settings or data that is either innacurate or not what i want

[JimH]

Where's the mute button when you really need it?   

[glynor]

It is specific to theatreview, whatever way you exit fullscreen whilst playing video it pauses the now playing

Ahh... You mean that.  True, it pauses while you are actually showing the Theater View UI, but when you exit back out of Theater View (back to Fullscreen or to Standard View) it then unpauses and continues where you left off.

This is somewhat annoying, but not as bad (IMHO) as what I thought you meant initially.

[glynor]

Where's the mute button when you really need it?   

Snarky, Jim.   

(I like it.)

[AoXoMoXoA]

I'd prefer one main checkbox "Turn OFF ALL Automatic/Background Functions - Let Me Do Them Manually"   

[Matt]

I'd prefer one main checkbox "Turn OFF ALL Automatic/Background Functions - Let Me Do Them Manually"   

I would like that one main checkbox to be automatically controlled by the program.

[leezer3]

I think TVs always remember mute.  However, TVs also show a picture so they make sense muted.

If you tell a media player "play this song", it should unmute.

If you just start the media player or play a video, maybe it shouldn't unmute.

Don't agree. I posted both of these rationalisations last time-
1. If I answer the phone or similar, I leave MC in mute mode, but still running through the playlist & unmute it when I'm finished.
2. Somtimes I want to play videos muted.

I like the current unmute on startup of the player, leave as is please. I never had any issues with the original behaviour either, but the first modification was godawful.

Cheers

-Leezer-

[Doof]

I would like that one main checkbox to be automatically controlled by the program.

lmao

[MrC]

MC should not un-mute, when, for example, I launch it to view photos.  As a "media" playback program, it should not assume it knows how I will be using it.  Next thing it will do is update my graphics and audio drivers! :-)  Hey..., wait a minute....

Give an option; I don't care how it defaults.

[nuke2000]

Where's the mute button when you really need it?   

  My mute button has dropped off and i am stuck in an endless loop like a broken record 

I can't understand why the pause video in theatre view doesn't bug more people - but apparently it doesn't so what to do?

Perhaps if i waffle on endlessly and give you a scenario:

- I have friends over for a party. I merrily add a few a few music vid's to a playlist and set to bigscreen to start things off - Excellent audio/visual entertainment for those in the lounge lounge and audio entertainment throughout the house.
- Guests arrive and some settle in the lounge.
- The guys in the lounge want to add their own audio or music video selections to the playlist
- Entertainment is paused for everyone - why has the music stopped come the crys from around the house
- and so on ad infinitum

You have to agree it makes MC a rather selfish application cos i would have to dictate the playlist for the evening , set it going and hide the remote from my guests who obviously would then not then experience MC functions. Instead of being active participants in the MC experience everyone becomes a passive observer of a music channel that strangely plays all their hosts favourite music videos with the bonus of no ads 

If i can't persuade you to give the option of turning this behaviour on or off i can't, but if you like me had a large music video collection that you treated like audio tracks you may perhaps see my point? If this behaviour was exhibited with audio tracks there would be an outcry.

By the way, why does standard view not exhibit this behaviour? If any view should pause your playback it should be standard view surely?

That's my lot, i have said my piece and will now crawl back under my stone with fingers and toes crossed (or possibly not  )

Cheers me dears

[Doof]

I completely agree. It's another "feature" that either needs to go or allow us to turn off.

[GHammer]

Ghammer, there are plenty of examples where the startup layout is different than the one at shutdown.  Windows, for instance.  Word, etc.

Not that I'm aware of. Have any examples?

But, the point is not if other apps jump off the bridge, it is whether I want to follow. My Mom was always sucessful with that line of arguement.