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[JimH]

PS.  I said I wasn't interested before.  I've decided that I was wrong.  This is very interesting.

http://www.pix01.com/gallery/8D12431D-7EA0-495D-9EA2-775091458CB9/Mighty_Mouse/1053294768_orig0.jpg

Aha!  Thanks.

I'm still trying to get my head around this.  Team JRiver has laid a lot of new track in the last few weeks.

If you're planning on being a hero at your friend's house, test first.  There are a lot of rough edges still.  Don't expect everything to just work immediately.

I'm sure there are some OSX solutions out there.  I can't recommend any.  TwonkyVision may have one, but I think their interface is confusing.  The DLNA article on Wikipedia has some programs listed.

For controllers, Plugplayer works, not yet perfectly.  It's an iPhone app.  So does Andromote.  It's an Android app.  Android opens the door to some less expensive hardware.

The new Buffalo Linkstations are network drives with DLNA servers built in.  These work with our latest builds.

Trial and Error is your friend.  Let us know how it goes.

[Alex B]

Second... Are there any DLNA applications for OSX?  Would this allow me to control a remote Mac with MC, and play files from my MC media library "to" my Mac?

You could try Kinsky. It has Windows, Mac and Linux versions. The Windows version works with MC. I'd like to try the Linux version, but first I need to create a new Linux installation. My most recent experiment with Linux was several years ago.

DLNA could be a way for JRiver easily expand MC to the other platforms. Kinsky runs on .Net 2 (Windows) and Mono (OS X and Linux). IMHO, Java would a be a very good OS independent platform for a lightweight control point and renderer application that could be used with MC DLNA servers. Two years ago I suggested that JRiver could create a Java client for MC.

From http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=47138.msg323277#msg323277
(more details there):



Jim, you have now created the infrastructure for such a "client". You would just need to create a platform independent "JRiver / Media Center" branded application. Kinsky is a good example of what I have in my mind. You could include features that are specifically designed to work in conjunction with MC and design a look and feel that would make it a part of the "MC family".


Regarding the problem I reported earlier in this thread, the latest build fixed it.

[JimH]

I have...and until this piece is correctly annotated to include DLNA with up to date info - it's useless to me.

The DLNA information is in the article on DLNA.

Besides  - Media Server will not stay running - even tho this article says it will - when one logs off of a server based (WHS) OS. Having to leave MC running on the server is simply not an option.

I am not at all familiar with WHS, but try the option in MC for running Media Server on Windows Startup.

[MGD_King]

PS.  I said I wasn't interested before.  I've decided that I was wrong.  This is very interesting.

I'm jumping on this bandwagon, too! I'll admit that I had lost "interest" in the last few builds of MC (121 was the last I downloaded) but now I'm like a kid with a new toy! I'll be keeping my eye on the progress with DLNA from now on!

Way to go Team JRiver!

[giamma]

Make sure you have build 131.  Search is supported with recent builds, but perhaps the Onkyo is doing new types of searches we haven't seen before?

I actually did try but I was not able to connect. Weird.

I now see the HT180 listed as a player, but from the Onkyo I am not seeing the MC14 DLNA server.

I will give it a try again but I was seeing some errors on the DLNA server, something about the
format not being recognized (I will cut and paste the message when i try again).

for now I had to revert to 130

[giamma]

Make sure you have build 131.  Search is supported with recent builds, but perhaps the Onkyo is doing new types of searches we haven't seen before?

i did re install 131
I powered off and on the Onkyo but still no luck, even after 30 min.

But after few tests, I realized that MC14 DLNA is on a new port, so I opened that port
in the firewall setting and now I am back in business.

But the search feature is still not working

[JimH]

You could try Kinsky.

Very nice.  I downloaded it and ran it without much trouble at all.  It found our server on my machine, and I could play to our renderer on a different machine.

Thanks.

[Sternwart]

Hi there,

after about 3 years since http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=37097.0 I come back to this topic.
I manage all my music (about 35.000 files) with MC. My dream was, to have all of them available in the living room and everywhere else in the house, where a UPNP capable device is present. Until now this remains a dream.

Today I updated to MC14, because I read in this forum, that UPNP-->DLNA experienced a lot of progress.
I currently own the following devices with DLNA functionality:

• Noxon iRadio (Audio only)
• Samsung TV LE32B679 (audio, video, pictures)
• DENON AVR-3808 (audio only)

Unfortunately NONE of them plays my files using MC14 (build 131) and DLNA without problems.


Hope this will be better soon...
Rgds

Sternwart

[JimH]

I currently own the following devices with DLNA functionality:

• Noxon iRadio (Audio only)
• Samsung TV LE32B679 (audio, video, pictures)
• DENON AVR-3808 (audio only)

Unfortunately NONE of them plays my files using MC14 (build 131) and DLNA without problems.

Pick one and describe the problem you have.  It may be just configuration.  You need to set the options in Tools/Options/DLNA.  Check the Server feature at least. 

I'm pretty sure someone reported this working on Noxon.

[ja500001]

Hello - quick question - i have a popcorn hour c200 as my DMR. I'm running build 14.0.130, and have enabled the controller function under "Services & Plugin-ins"

... I can't see my PCH under the "Now Playing" tab though - can anyone confirm if this device is supported yet or if there's any plan to in future builds?

Is there a firewall port on my DMP that I need to open up (have the windows firewall enabled)?

Thanks for your help!

Cheers, Jon

[JimH]

... i have a popcorn hour c200 as my DMR. I'm running build 14.0.130, and have enabled the controller function under "Services & Plugin-ins"

I believe you need to enable the Renderer in the same section.  It is the playback portion, and I think the Popcorn Hour c200 is a server.  I may be mistaken about the PH.

... I can't see my PCH under the "Now Playing" tab though - can anyone confirm if this device is supported yet or if there's any plan to in future builds?

Is there a firewall port on my DMP that I need to open up (have the windows firewall enabled)?

In that build, try setting the port to 2870.  The next build moves the ports used to the range, 52100 to 52199.

[ja500001]

thanks Jim - i enabled the renderer function and change port to that suggested, but still not seeing the PCH in the now playing tab.

...is there any debug strategy you could suggest to try find out where i'm getting stuck?

cheers, Jon

[JimH]

thanks Jim - i enabled the renderer function and change port to that suggested, but still not seeing the PCH in the now playing tab.

...is there any debug strategy you could suggest to try find out where i'm getting stuck?

If it is a DLNA Renderer, MC will show it under File/Library.

[ja500001]

hi Jim - no it's not a server; i have a NAS device serving up the files... i want to control the render of these files on the PCH using jriver MC as the control point.

i'm thinking i don't necessarily want to turn the tv on every time i want to select something else to play on the PCH.

i'll maybe ask the popcorn hour guys as well? - maybe c200 is does not offer suitable remote rendering functions to MC (e.g. stop, play, pause etc)?

cheers, Jon

[JimH]

Please tell them we'll provide a license and technical contact.

[ja500001]

Jim - will do - cheers, Jon

[Sternwart]

Pick one and describe the problem you have.  It may be just configuration.  You need to set the options in Tools/Options/DLNA.  Check the Server feature at least. 

I'm pretty sure someone reported this working on Noxon.

I take the Samsung TV. It has a DLNA client included. When choosing "Media" I get an Intro screen containing buttons for "Music", "Photo" and "Video".
The TV comes with a terrible software called "PC Share Manager". You have to include every single folder into the "Database". It took me about 20 minutes to include two dozens of mp3 files. You have a language mix from German, Dutch, English and what else in the GUI. But using this application I can play Music (MP3), Pictures (JPEG) and Videos.

When using MC14 (tried "DLNA Generic" profile) the following happens:
- Which button I ever use, I always get the Menu starting with "Music", Photos" and "Video" (if the "Music" button was pressed, it's useless to present "Photo" and "Video".
- I can navigate through the path (i.e. Music\Artists\Artist Name\Album Name)
- then I see the track names and the album cover
- when trying to play any of the tracks  I always get "Not supported file format" (or in German "Nicht unterstütztes Format")

That was for "Music", similar things happen with the other categories.

It would be nice, to have a similar result on the screen, like with the Samsung application.
I never tested Twonky, but I read somewhere, that the twonky user can make file formats readable by changing some program parameters.

When using the Noxon (with the standard "DLNA Terratec Noxon" parameter set) I run into a loop: after choosing "PCName Terratec Noxon" I get a list, containing all discovered DLNA sources, one of them is "PCname Terratec Noxon"... and so on.Never got deeper into th menu.

Thanks for your patience.

Regards
Sternwart

[glynor]

Don't expect everything to just work immediately.

This gave me a good laugh.  Thanks, Jim.    

(We are, after all, dealing with a computer, right?)

[Alex B]

Second... Are there any DLNA applications for OSX?  Would this allow me to control a remote Mac with MC, and play files from my MC media library "to" my Mac?

You could try Kinsky. It has Windows, Mac and Linux versions. The Windows version works with MC. I'd like to try the Linux version, but first I need to create a new Linux installation. My most recent experiment with Linux was several years ago...

glynor, did you try it on a Mac?

BTW, there are actually two interesting versions, in addition to "Kinsky" there is "KinskyDesktop".

[glynor]

Not yet.  I'm going to try to get there later this week.

[glynor]

Actually... I just went over and checked it out.  These both look like the opposite of what I'm looking for.

What I'd really like is the ability to turn a Mac into a DLNA Renderer, not a server or controller.  I'd want to use MC to drive them, and just output the audio/video on the Mac.  Am I missing something (I admittedly didn't look that hard)?  Are these apps able to act as renderers as well?

[JimH]

I take the Samsung TV.

Good choice.

It has a DLNA client included.

In DLNA terminology, the Samsung has a DLNA Renderer (it plays content from a DLNA Server).

When choosing "Media" I get an Intro screen containing buttons for "Music", "Photo" and "Video".
The TV comes with a terrible software called "PC Share Manager". You have to include every single folder into the "Database". It took me about 20 minutes to include two dozens of mp3 files. You have a language mix from German, Dutch, English and what else in the GUI. But using this application I can play Music (MP3), Pictures (JPEG) and Videos.

Good.  So we know the Samsung will work.

When using MC14 (tried "DLNA Generic" profile) ...

Make sure you have checked the option for the DLNA Server in MC.

 the following happens:
- Which button I ever use, I always get the Menu starting with "Music", Photos" and "Video" (if the "Music" button was pressed, it's useless to present "Photo" and "Video".

You must customize the view in MC for that server.  It's a characteristic of DLNA in general.

- I can navigate through the path (i.e. Music\Artists\Artist Name\Album Name)
- then I see the track names and the album cover
- when trying to play any of the tracks  I always get "Not supported file format" (or in German "Nicht unterstütztes Format")

So it almost works.  It may just be the conversion setting.  Make sure that you can convert to MP3 format, and try "Always convert".

That was for "Music", similar things happen with the other categories.

Other categories may not yet work, but that will change shortly.

When using the Noxon (with the standard "DLNA Terratec Noxon" parameter set) I run into a loop: after choosing "PCName Terratec Noxon" I get a list, containing all discovered DLNA sources, one of them is "PCname Terratec Noxon"... and so on.Never got deeper into th menu.

I'm not sure on that one.  Let's stick with the Samsung for now.

Thanks for your patience.

And yours!

[JimH]

Are these apps able to act as renderers as well?

Most apps do a piece or two, but not often all three.

The best list of possibilities I have seen is on wikipedia.

[Sternwart]

Good choice.In DLNA terminology, the Samsung has a DLNA Renderer (it plays content from a DLNA Server).Good.  So we know the Samsung will work.Make sure you have checked the option for the DLNA Server in MC.You must customize the view in MC for that server.  It's a characteristic of DLNA in general.So it almost works.  It may just be the conversion setting.  Make sure that you can convert to MP3 format, and try "Always convert".Other categories may not yet work, but that will change shortly.I'm not sure on that one.  Let's stick with the Samsung for now.And yours!

Thanks Jim for your quick response.
Customizing: I know about these features and i appreciate them. So I reduced the features for the Noxon to "Audio" (because it doesn't show pictures... nor it makes coffee...:-) BUT: the Samsung TV plays Audio, Pictures and Video as well. So it makes no sense in my point of view, to present all theses categories again, when I already chose "Audio" in the main menu. I do not expect to see photos, when I chose Audio - so I don't want to have this choice again.


Converting:
I played around with the converting options - without success. BTW: I only gave simple MP3 files to the test folder. So I assume there would have been nothing to convert... Am I right with this?

Rgds

Sternwart

[fitbrit]

I'm happy to report that I can use one PC running MC to control playback on another. However, large HD video files take a long time to start playing. Can we have a similar option to that of library server to play files locally if they exist?
I have a central (unRAID) server which all my PCs connect to. I think that (for example) a simple 1.5 GB file is being loaded before playback and that is pretty intolerable.

[Alex B]

Get a faster LAN. 10 Gbps or faster.  

(I am just joking.)

Probably the file format doesn't allow starting playback before the file is fully transferred (i.e the behavior is not different from a Library Server/client connection).

Can we have a similar option to that of library server to play files locally if they exist?

I think the nature and the strict standards of DLNA/UPnP prevent from transmitting Windows file name paths through the UPnP server/control point/renderer chain, but perhaps JRiver could add their own extensions that would be used only when all involved participants are MC instances.

[fitbrit]

Get a faster LAN. 10 Gbps or faster.  

(I am just joking.)

Probably the file format doesn't allow starting playback before the file is fully transferred (i.e the behavior is not different from a Library Server/client connection).

I think the nature and the strict standards of DLNA/UPnP prevent from transmitting Windows file name paths through the UPnP server/control point/renderer chain, but perhaps JRiver could add their own extensions that would be used only when all involved participants are MC instances.

Thanks, Alex. My files are mostly mkv or avi - the majority of those being h264 encoded mkvs.

[JimH]

I split some posts to a thread called DLNA vs. HTPC.

[zxsix]

I have the DLNA connection working both in MC, my XBOX360, and on iphone via the PlugPlayer app.
Is there any provision in the DLNA spec that could allow the rating of the currently playing track to be updated?
I don't see anything in the interface of these DLNA clients that would indicate that would be the case.
That's really the one feature we have in Library Server that would keep me from moving over to the DLNA method.
It's a shame since DLNA is more flexible in some ways.

[Matt]

I have the DLNA connection working both in MC, my XBOX360, and on iphone via the PlugPlayer app.
Is there any provision in the DLNA spec that could allow the rating of the currently playing track to be updated?
I don't see anything in the interface of these DLNA clients that would indicate that would be the case.
That's really the one feature we have in Library Server that would keep me from moving over to the DLNA method.
It's a shame since DLNA is more flexible in some ways.

My Streamium has a rating button on the remote.  I'm not sure if it's calling a standard DLNA function.  We'll investigate.

If anyone else knows more about DLNA + ratings (like a program that does this already), please let us know.

Thanks.

[jiistme]

In 14.0.130 my PS3 can find my Media Server just fine, but in 14.0.131 and 14.0.136 the PS3 was not able to connect. When I try to connect with my PS3, the DLNA/UPnP section in Media Center shows the following line 3 times:

SSDP request for service type: urn:schemas-upnp-org:device:MediaServer:1;Responses: 1

I am not sure if I need to modify my DLNA/UPnP setup to be different in 136 than my setup in the 130 options or if this is just a problem with the beta versions. I did notice that between 130 and 136 the port is no longer modifiable and the DLNA/UPnP server connects on a different port in 130 than it did in 136. I don't know if that makes a difference or not, but it is one change that I noticed.

[JimH]

I am not sure if I need to modify my DLNA/UPnP setup from my 14.0.130 options or if this is just a problem with the beta versions. I did notice that between 130 and 136 the port is no longer modifiable and the DLNA/UPnP server connects on a different port in 136 than it did in 130. I don't know if that makes a difference or not, but it is one change that I noticed.

You will need to change the settings.  Try adding a new server, and choose PS3.  Don't make any other changes.

[jiistme]

I wasn't expecting such a quick reply. Thank you very much.

I am not sure if this makes a difference or not, but I had originally upgraded from 104 (or 107, can't quite remember which) to 131. The UPnP section changed significantly between those versions, so I added a new PS3 server in the new DLNA/UPnP section at that time. I tried to connect with the PS3 with the same error. When I saw the post for 136 this morning, I was hoping that version would fix the problem and so I installed it and tried connecting with no success. After that I tried going back to the last non-beta version, 130. With no changes, the PS3 connected just fine. After your post, I re-installed 136 and tried adding a new PS3 server just in case I made a change to the PS3 server that I forgot about. Still no success. Is there anything else I may be missing? Oh, one other note, I checked for any PS3 updates and there were none. So, I am on the latest PS3 version.

[JimH]

It's possible that your firewall is blocking the port.  It's probably 52100 or 52101.

Also, try powering down both sides.

[jiistme]

The firewall was the problem. I completely forgot to check it. Thank you for the help. I am loving being able to stream my media straight to my PS3 with Media Center. It is nice to get it back up and running again.

[JimH]

The firewall was the problem. I completely forgot to check it. Thank you for the help. I am loving being able to stream my media straight to my PS3 with Media Center. It is nice to get it back up and running again.

Good news.  Thanks.

[stubbo]

Hey, this looks promising (using build 136). So far, got my server running, my workstation controlling it, my two [Philips Streamium] SLA5520s being driven and my Samsung 9 series (which has always refused to work in the past, despite saying it's DLNA certified) can at least see the server.

There are some simple things I can't seem to get my head around, such as when a new device is turned on, why the server doesn't get to see it unless I stop and restart it. I still can't see my Samsung Telly after multiple restarts, but the telly can see the server.

Also, my samsung telly tells me all my music is in an incompatible format, but everything I have is an MP3 VBR format. The server is set to recode to VBR, recode to CBR and the server doesn't even start.

Beyond the base principles I'm trying to find if some more advanced things are possible. For example, can multiple renderers be synced up so they are all playing exactly the same track at the same time. For example, if I'm having a party, the telly and sound system in the lounge, one SLA5520 in the kitchen and the other driving the speakers outside can all be set up so they are playing the same thing at the same time with zero lag between them and controlled by a single controller. I'm guessing not, but it's something I'd like to see.

Definitely an improvement over plain uPnP though, that's for sure.

I plan to give the wife kittens by changing the music she's listening to at home at various random intervals thoughout the day. It's just got to be done !!

[giamma]

I am using an Onkyo HT-RC 180 to connect to MC14 build 136

I can see all the smart lists just fine.
Music streams without a problem.

I can also see the album covers, but somehow when a song is being played,
I do not see the author information being displayed, only the song name and the album
but not the author.

Note that when the Onkyo is connected to TwonkyMedia, I can see the author correctly.

also the search feature is not working with MC14.
Instead it's working just fine with TwonkyMedia.

Any tips on how to solve these 2 issues?

Many thanks

[JimH]

There are some simple things I can't seem to get my head around, such as when a new device is turned on, why the server doesn't get to see it unless I stop and restart it. I still can't see my Samsung Telly after multiple restarts, but the telly can see the server.

MC will show Renderers that it can control under Playing Now.  We probably aren't refreshing this list often enough.

Also, my samsung telly tells me all my music is in an incompatible format, but everything I have is an MP3 VBR format. The server is set to recode to VBR, recode to CBR and the server doesn't even start.

Try 128Kbps.  It's possible the device doesn't like some formats.  Try forcing conversion.

... can  multiple renderers be synced up so they are all playing exactly the same track at the same time.

Not at this time.

For example, if I'm having a party, the telly and sound system in the lounge, one SLA5520 in the kitchen and the other driving the speakers outside can all be set up so they are playing the same thing at the same time with zero lag between them and controlled by a single controller.
Definitely an improvement over plain uPnP though, that's for sure.

I plan to give the wife kittens by changing the music she's listening to at home at various random intervals thoughout the day. It's just got to be done !!

Thanks for the report.  We'll get the Samsung going for you.  We may need a wireshark log.

[JimH]

I am using an Onkyo HT-RC 180 to connect to MC14 build 136

I can see all the smart lists just fine.
Music streams without a problem.

I can also see the album covers, but somehow when a song is being played,
I do not see the author information being displayed, only the song name and the album
but not the author.

also the search feature is not working with MC14.

Any tips on how to solve these 2 issues?

This may not have been implemented yet.

[Sternwart]

Try 128Kbps.  It's possible the device doesn't like some formats.  Try forcing conversion. We'll get the Samsung going for you.  We may need a wireshark log.

Tried release 136 today with my Samsung TV. Used CBR, forced conversion 128kbps. After selecting "Music" the TV came back with "Request cannot be completed, Media Play will return to Main Screen." and then "Media Play is disconnecting device <pcname>Samsung". After that the Samsung specific DLNA-Device is not shown within the DLNA Menu of the TV for a while.
What can I contribute to get the Samsung family running with MC?

Rgds

Sternwart

[JimH]

Is there Samsung software running on the PC?  Or does the TV expect it to be?

[Sternwart]

Jim,

there is no Samsung software on this PC.
I have it ("PC Share Manager") on my laptop for testing purposes. This is the most terrible piece of software, I ever saw. BUT: the Samsung TV can see my media files after importing them into the Share Manager database. Seems as they speak a foreign dialect of DLNA language...

Rgds

Sternwart

PS: Samsung calls its TV "DLNA compatible". The only "DLNA Server" they talk about, is "PC Share Manager".  From this point of view they expect it. I choose this TV because it's DLNA compatibility and saw the chance, to acces my media via MC...

[JimH]

What model is the Samsung?

[Sternwart]

LE32B679

http://www.samsung.de/de/Privatkunden/TVHeimkino/Fernseher/LCDTV/le32b679/LE32B679T2SXZG/detail.aspx

[JimH]

We can look at this in more detail but it will take at least a couple of weeks.  In the meantime, please try the builds as they are made available.  Something else we do may affect this.

[Sternwart]

Hope, you will succeed...

Sternwart

[JimH]

Thanks.  It looks like Samsung's DLNA may be a little different:

http://forums.cnet.com/5208-13973_102-0.html?threadID=325920

[bennyd]

Now that I'm a proud owner of the LG BD390 device:

With the generic settings as DLNA server in MC14, all is almost working out of the box:

- Custom views are showing as expected
- Playlists/Smartlists are working perfect
- Music is playing perfect
- Pictures are displaying well
- Videos are playing ok (even DTS/Dolby digital, MKV files etc.)

Some things that are not working (yet):

- No thumbnails are shown (neither for Audio, Images or Videos)
- Subtitles (in the same folder of the video file with the same name and .srt extension) are not displaying
- Only the Title is shown in the list of files, can't this be an option so for audio we can also choose to show Artist ?

The first two options above (thumbnails and Subtitles) are working perfect with Nero Mediahome 4, all other DLNA servers I tread fail to show thumbnails and subtitles.
Is there something special to be done and/or why is Nero working ok for this ?

[grandlulu]

bou, i can't stream to my Sony 32v4500 kdl tv !
dlna works with Microsoft media player but nothing with MC, i'm so sad...
LuLu from Paris, France