Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[mojave]

I love the new Position Display (or Status Bar). I this is almost exactly what I was requesting/hoping for back in 2007. I have a few suggestions:

1.  Can we grab a handle and move the position bar back and forth? This would really be great.

2.  If we can move the position bar with a mouse, then I would like to see the top position bar in display view disappear. It is too small to use with a projector (at least for me). Actually, I wouldn't mind if the whole top display disappears altogether. It is currently projecting on the wall above my screen. Maybe this could be an option.

3. Can you make another overlay like the new position bar that shows the current time? We could just press "T" or something and it would display the current time for a few seconds.

[Matt]

1.  Can we grab a handle and move the position bar back and forth? This would really be great.

2.  If we can move the position bar with a mouse, then I would like to see the top position bar in display view disappear. It is too small to use with a projector (at least for me). Actually, I wouldn't mind if the whole top display disappears altogether. It is currently projecting on the wall above my screen. Maybe this could be an option.

The on screen display is not designed to be used with the mouse.  It's for remote use on the couch.

If you're using a mouse, you can use the playerbar at the top of the screen.

[Matt]

3. Can you make another overlay like the new position bar that shows the current time? We could just press "T" or something and it would display the current time for a few seconds.

We talked about this, but decided we preferred a clean design.

Time is available at Theater View's root, which you can get to with a green button press.

[raym]

For a really "clean design", what about an option to hide osd items we don't use? For example, I NEVER use the image brightness/contrast/etc controls and nor do I want anyone messing with this. For me, they just get in the way. Same with volume. I don't use the pc to control volume.

This comes up quite a bit on the forums.

[leezer3]

Now that we have a thread, I'll quote what I posted in the .145 build thread

Optional please, or at the very least a hotkey to hide it. While knowing where I am when I've paused can sometimes be useful, I'm often pausing to have a closer look at something on-screen; Amongst other things, I use train cab-view videos, and I can really do without a time/position display dumped in the middle of things
Less usual usage case I admit, but there'll be plenty of others who think the same way when this goes public.

Also, dunno if anyone else agrees with me, but shouldn't the 'paused' be capitalised?

Edit: Another odd little thought, if it's staying onscreen until unpaused, perhaps a ~2 second fadeout as things start up again would look a little better? The disappearance ATM is a little abrupt.

-Leezer-

I don't deny it's neat for many types of on couch usage, but definitely nowhere near as much when it's a standard video I'm sitting in front of, trying to get something from.
Really, really need an option to disable this please.

Following on from my final point- I note it vanishes over a couple of seconds from when dragging using the position bar. Ideally, it wouldn't come up at all in this situation either way (Unnecessary duplication of information IMHO). Does this mean that the unpause behaviour is a bug?

-Leezer-

[mojave]

I have no problem with it being used just with a remote (or arrow keys). Can holding down the button provide a different behavior? Maybe a 3 second hold jumps forward/backward 4x the default. For example, I like to record/timeshift football games and start watching them later on. When I get to halftime, it take forever to skip forward in small increments (which are necessary to skip between plays). The mousable display bar is too small to grab and move from the couch, plus as I mentioned, it is displaying on the wall, pictures, and curtains (depending on the aspect ratio of the movie). Maybe there is already a way to skip further forward and I haven't found it yet. I just thought it would be nice if the new position bar could also be a scrub bar (as Glynor calls it) since it works better from 10' away than the existing bar.

Regarding the time, it would only fade in and out for a few seconds. That way I would know when to tell the kids that in five more minutes they need to brush their teeth and get ready for bed.  

For a clean design, I could do without the top display in Display View. An alternative would be to make it bigger or adjustable and allow it to be moved down to fit within the screen.

[Matt]

I have no problem with it being used just with a remote (or arrow keys). Can holding down the button provide a different behavior? Maybe a 3 second hold jumps forward/backward 4x the default. For example, I like to record/timeshift football games and start watching them later on. When I get to halftime, it take forever to skip forward in small increments (which are necessary to skip between plays). The mousable display bar is too small to grab and move from the couch, plus as I mentioned, it is displaying on the wall, pictures, and curtains (depending on the aspect ratio of the movie). Maybe there is already a way to skip further forward and I haven't found it yet. I just thought it would be nice if the new position bar could also be a scrub bar (as Glynor calls it) since it works better from 10' away than the existing bar.

You can use fast forward / rewind at 100x.

But holding the left / right down should move pretty fast -- like ~5 seconds to skip a halftime.  Are you seeing something different?

[mojave]

I just realized that using a fullscreen detached display eliminates the upper controls and scrub bar. I would like the option to have the regular Display View look the same as a fullscreen detached display. This way it would happen automatically when launching a movie.

Is it possible to bring up the new progress bar without skipping or pausing? Can it be the first thing to appear on a down button or arrow?

[raym]

That's a great idea. Down arrow could activate the time bar. Up arrow to activate Standard osd controls starting with Programs - for tv - or Playing Now for everything else. 

[Matt]

I just realized that using a fullscreen detached display eliminates the upper controls and scrub bar. I would like the option to have the regular Display View look the same as a fullscreen detached display. This way it would happen automatically when launching a movie.

The upper controls only appear if you use a mouse.

Is it possible to bring up the new progress bar without skipping or pausing? Can it be the first thing to appear on a down button or arrow?

Use the info button on your remote.

[raym]

Use the info button on your remote.

Thinking about it some more, wouldn't it be better to stick with the arrow keys? These are used to enable the osd. The position bar is an osd too. It would also better adhere to your 5 button remote paradigm.

I'd suggest:
left arrow - jump seek back
right arrow - jump seek forward
up arrow - activates osd
down arrow - activates time bar

Once activated by either up or down, arrows navigate all available osd options just as they do today. 

[rick.ca]

Thinking about it some more, wouldn't it be better to stick with the arrow keys?

+1, but with Up/Down reversed—so Down would bring up the OSD, and further Downs would move through the menu. And if Up activates the position display, maybe a second Up could Pause.

[glynor]

I don't like that idea (either way).  I like to be able to cycle through the OSD in reverse.  It is quicker for things at that end of the list.

[JimH]

I don't like that idea.  I like to be able to cycle through the OSD in reverse.  It is quicker for things at that end of the list.

I agree.

[rick.ca]

I don't like that idea (either way).  I like to be able to cycle through the OSD in reverse.  It is quicker for things at that end of the list.

All you would need to do is press Down then Up. Are you really unwilling to sacrifice one button press for the sake of convenient access to the position display? I don't really care how it's done, but I don't see any logic or justification for excluding the position display from the OSD. And if it is to be included, it should be the first item—so the two methods really aren't very different.

[glynor]

Are you really unwilling to sacrifice one button press for the sake of convenient access to the position display? I don't really care how it's done, but I don't see any logic or justification for excluding the position display from the OSD. And if it is to be included, it should be the first item—so the two methods really aren't very different.

I don't know... I really don't need to see the position bar except for when it shows up on its own.  But I'm okay with it if it is one choice in the OSD like before.  I just don't want up or down to be dedicated to it is all.

[raym]

During live tv, it would be nice if the osd showed a marker of where the timeshift buffer starts and ends.

Also, when the position bar is active during pause, could the info key/MCC command close/toggle it please? Sometimes I like to pause to see something in detail - like images - but the time bar gets in the way.   

[Yaobing]

During live tv, it would be nice if the osd showed a marker of where the timeshift buffer starts and ends.

The markers are there, you just did not recognize them:

Also, when showing the time/position OSD during live TV, sometimes the green bar starts in the middle of the OSD window. Why is that? Looks a bit strange.

[raym]

The markers are there, you just did not recognize them:

Sorry, what does this mean? I don't see any markers :-(

[Yaobing]

Sorry, what does this mean? I don't see any markers :-(

No, you don't.

Also, when showing the time/position OSD during live TV, sometimes the green bar starts in the middle of the OSD window. Why is that? Looks a bit strange

What you saw as a bit strange is meant to tell you how much time-shifting is available.  
See attached screenshot.

[leezer3]

No, you don't.

What you saw as a bit strange is meant to tell you how much time-shifting is available.  
See attached screenshot.

Perhaps color the program start bit?
I agree it's a little confusing at present, as there's no indication that it's actually doing something

Can I also put in another plug for being able to turn this off, please?
It's got some use on a big screen, but it's still in my way as soon as I pause something on an 'ordinary' monitor to look at it!

-Leezer-

[rpalmer68]

No, you don't.

What you saw as a bit strange is meant to tell you how much time-shifting is available.  
See attached screenshot.

Ah that explains it then, wondered why the OSD bar was the width of the screen but the green position bar was so small and off on the right when starting TV playback.

I think there needs to be some color coding to actually indicate something is there.  We almost need a program indicator, timeshift indicator and a position indicator and yet somehow keep it all looking clean and uncluttered....

 

Richard

 

[raym]

Thanks for clarifying Yaobing.

On a related note, any chance of making the Info/MCC command toggle the OSD please? Sometimes it gets in the way. All other OSD messages auto hide after a few seconds which is good too.

[rick.ca]

...but it's still in my way as soon as I pause something on an 'ordinary' monitor to look at it!

And if Up activates the position display, maybe a second Up could Pause.

...And a third Up could remove the position display without resuming play, and a fourth could Resume. The up arrow could do the same if a pause was invoked by a Pause key.

[fitbrit]

We talked about this, but decided we preferred a clean design.

Time is available at Theater View's root, which you can get to with a green button press.

I'd really urge you guys to reconsider giving us the time as an easily accessible part of the OSD. In a fully darkened room while watching a movie, it's not much fun to have to escape out of display view to see the time.

[glynor]

I'd really urge you guys to reconsider giving us the time as an easily accessible part of the OSD. In a fully darkened room while watching a movie, it's not much fun to have to escape out of display view to see the time.

Not sure what this has to do with the position bar, but...

I'd like this too.  Or at least the option to add it to the "header" (or some always-visible place) in Theater View, so at least you'd only have to cycle back to Theater View quickly.

One thing my wife often asks when we're in the middle of viewing something in the evening is "what time is it?" (She's, of course, deciding to continue or go to bed.)  Since I have a the HTPC as my only home theater device (no blinking VCRs here), and the receiver doesn't show a clock, I often have to cycle out to standard view to check the time.  Happens almost every time I use MC in the evening at home.

[Matt]

Time is on the root of Theater View.

Tapping the green button twice will show Theater View home.  Tapping again will resume playback.

[fitbrit]

Time is on the root of Theater View.

Tapping the green button twice will show Theater View home.  Tapping again will resume playback.

Understood, but what if one doesn't watch videos from Theatre View, or doesn't have a remote, or does not want to interrupt playback to see the time? I think the current time would be ideally located in the Position OSD, or whatever the elapsed time view is called; one can then gauge what time the tv show/movie will be over. My current solution is to pause video, press escape, check the time and then double-click to go back to display view... and finally resume playback. Even the solution presented, using Theater View, is cumbersome and inelegant, IMHO. It doesn't seem like you agree, though. I guess I'll just have to keep my cellphone handy or a watch or plug in the defunct VCR to use as a clock.

[rpalmer68]

Understood, but what if one doesn't watch videos from Theatre View, or doesn't have a remote, or does not want to interrupt playback to see the time? I think the current time would be ideally located in the Position OSD, or whatever the elapsed time view is called; one can then gauge what time the tv show/movie will be over. My current solution is to pause video, press escape, check the time and then double-click to go back to display view... and finally resume playback. Even the solution presented, using Theater View, is cumbersome and inelegant, IMHO. It doesn't seem like you agree, though. I guess I'll just have to keep my cellphone handy or a watch or plug in the defunct VCR to use as a clock.

I have a clock on the wall, a lot easier than jumping around in theater view.   But the time in the OSD woud be nice as it would save having to move my head 90 degrees to look at the clock.

R

[glynor]

I have a clock on the wall, a lot easier than jumping around in theater view.   But the time in the OSD woud be nice as it would save having to move my head 90 degrees to look at the clock.

 

I bought three wall clocks since we moved into our house.  None of those made it to their first birthday, and two of them lasted less than 6 months.  Plus, it is really difficult to find a wall clock that is either not hideously ugly or horrifically expensive.

I decided then that my HTPC is a multi-thousand-dollar clock and that buying one for the wall is silly.  Plus, it is difficult to see a wall clock with the lights dimmed for movie watching...

[glynor]

Tapping the green button twice will show Theater View home.  Tapping again will resume playback.

Perhaps I need to program a "green button" on my remote.  What is the MCC command for that button?

[Matt]

Perhaps I need to program a "green button" on my remote.  What is the MCC command for that button?

Yes.  Anyone with a remote should have left, right, up, down, enter, and green button.

The command for green button is MCC_THEATER_VIEW (22001).

[glynor]

I now have a Green Button.  It actually worked out well.  I already had a button that launched MC directly into Theater View.  It just took reprogramming that button to launch it if MC didn't already exist, and send the proper 22001 command if it did.  Made it more useful than before.

I usually use the F11 command to cycle through MC's modes.  I have a remote button mapped to that command, but I do often use the "launch in Theater View mode" button now...  A nice shortcut back to the root of Theater View if nothing else, and nice that it toggles back to the full-screen playback too.

[glynor]

I don't know how I feel about having the time in the Playback Bar.  I really like the easy access to the time, but it does feel more cluttered.

I think the new design would be better if the play state (usually "paused') text didn't track across the screen with the current playback time and the playhead.  If just the playback state text stayed left-justified, in the dimmed font like the time, and the total runtime and current clock-time were flip-flopped, I think it would look better and make more functional sense.

The "length" of the bar would be the runtime, and it would be positioned at the right-end of the bar.
The current time would be above that, more obviously "separate" from the position bar widget, and the playback state would "counterbalance" the two items on the screen (since it would be left-justified and on the same row on the screen).
The "green fill" and current playback position would continue to serve as the playhead marker, but would take up less space since the word "paused" wouldn't track across the screen with it...

[glynor]

Like so:

(bonus points to anyone who can tell me what video this comes from)

[fitbrit]

I have a clock on the wall, a lot easier than jumping around in theater view.   But the time in the OSD woud be nice as it would save having to move my head 90 degrees to look at the clock.

R

Thanks for the sarcasm. Perhaps you failed to read my prior post, where I mentioned a fully darkened room. That would require moving your eyes up 20 degrees further up the page. An LED/VFD clock might be a solution; hence the slightly facetious comment about plugging in a VCR.
[EDIT]
Never mind: You guys rock! Now I feel like I owe you one. I'll try and get at least one more person to register MC15 by the end of the year.

[fitbrit]

Like so:

(bonus points to anyone who can tell me what video this comes from)

I like that! Is that Ming the Merciless from the 1930s' Flash Gordon (Larry [Buster] Crabbe as Flash)?

[Matt]

I still don't see how adding the time to the OSD would ruin anyone's viewing experience. How much do programmers cost these days? I'm committed enough to trying to make MC my one-stop shop for media that I'd consider paying to get this added. Anyway, if there's no response to this, I promise not to bring it up again until 2011.

We added it to tonight's build.

But you can still feel free to send money.

[glynor]

I like that! Is that Ming the Merciless from the 1930s' Flash Gordon (Larry [Buster] Crabbe as Flash)?

No... But you are very close.  It was certainly based on Flash Gordon and Ming the Merciless.

[glynor]

We added it to tonight's build.

But you can still feel free to send money.

Ha!  I was just getting ready to point that out.    

[fitbrit]

We added it to tonight's build.

But you can still feel free to send money.

Hah! I just saw that, and was editing my post when you posted the above. I feel like sending you money, so if I don't get some more business your way by the end of the year, I'll buy a second licence myself to show my gratitude. You really made my day. I didn't want to go on at length about the wife AF and why this feature would be so welcome etc. etc. Anyway, I'll stop now before I gush too much praise and make it weird.

[fitbrit]

No... But you are very close.  It was certainly based on Flash Gordon and Ming the Merciless.

I know there were at least two Flash Gordon series then (as well as the original Buck Rogers. Is it from a music video? Your use of "video" rather than TV show is throwing me off. Hmmm... and Flesh Gordon wasn't in B&W...

[glynor]

I know there were at least two Flash Gordon series then (as well as the original Buck Rogers. Is it from a music video? Your use of "video" rather than TV show is throwing me off. Hmmm... and Flesh Gordon wasn't in B&W...

No, it isn't Emperor Wang (the Perverted) either.  The screencap is certainly from a TV Show, though this episode aired long after color broadcasts were typical.

[fitbrit]

No, it isn't Emperor Wang (the Perverted) either.  The screencap is certainly from a TV Show, though this episode aired long after color broadcasts were typical.

I might keep guessing, and getting more clues. Is there anywhere else we can take this, so as not to hijack this any more?

[rick.ca]

I really like the easy access to the time, but it does feel more cluttered...

With a little more clutter, it could be much more logical and functional...Progress and time-of-day times could be on two lines, separated by a thinner progress bar. The time-of-day line would include the time started, paused (i.e., the current time) and the projected ending time. Something like:

paused                        29:15                      46:01
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx------------------------
10:24 pm                    10:53 pm                 11:10 pm

It would make it easier for your wife to make that "continue or go to bed" decision.

[fitbrit]

With a little more clutter, it could be much more logical and functional...Progress and time-of-day times could be on two lines, separated by a thinner progress bar. The time-of-day line would include the time started, paused (i.e., the current time) and the projected ending time. Something like:

paused                        29:15                      46:01
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx------------------------
10:24 pm                    10:53 pm                 11:10 pm

It would make it easier for your wife to make that "continue or go to bed" decision.

What can I say? We have a toddler who wakes up at 5:30 am every day (and 4:30 am since the clocks went back). Staying up after 10 pm is a huge risk...

[rpalmer68]

With a little more clutter, it could be much more logical and functional...Progress and time-of-day times could be on two lines, separated by a thinner progress bar. The time-of-day line would include the time started, paused (i.e., the current time) and the projected ending time. Something like:

paused                        29:15                      46:01
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx------------------------
10:24 pm                    10:53 pm                 11:10 pm

It would make it easier for your wife to make that "continue or go to bed" decision.

I'm liking this idea I must say.

[JimH]

We're probably done making changes with this, except for a timeout that will display the position display for about 8 seconds before disappearing.  It will also be removed from image displays.

[fitbrit]

Thanks, Jim. Now that the "Position" display is not part of the cyclable OSD, is there a keyboard shortcut one can use instead of the info button on a remote. I haven't set up my remotes yet, and won't for a while until the basement theatre is ready.

[lepa]

Thanks for the clock.