Topic: Where MC Stands with TV Recording Support (Read 9353 times)

glynor · « **on:** June 23, 2011, 03:27:45 pm »

So, now that SageTV has been gobbled up by Google, I'm afraid that it won't be too long before I might be looking for a new DVR application. This is terrible news for me because I'm actually quite happy with what I have, and there aren't a lot of alternatives.

However... Maybe this is an opportunity for MC and J River! What I'd REALLY prefer would be to use MC for all of this. If it could replace Sage in my setup, I'd be pleased as heck. I already use MC to view all of my content (even that recorded by Sage), I just don't use it for watching "live" TV (while it is still airing) and for recording. So, I'd like to check in to see where MC stands in its support of TV Recording, and maybe get some ideas of where it might (and might not) be headed. So, some feedback would be great.

First, a little background:

* I'm in the US (DVB and whatnot is irrelevant to me).
* I have Time Warner cable. Most of my "good" channels are only available via a Time Warner digital cable box. I get a few Clear QAM channels, and a 60-or-so Standard Def "analog cable" channels that I almost never use.
* I have ZERO interest in hooking up any TV cable directly to my televisions. My house isn't wired (I ripped it out when we moved in because it was all terribly done anyway), and I don't want to use the TV interface anyway.
* I have a HD-PVR and a Hauppauge HVR-2250, along with a USB-UIRT blaster. My digital cable box is in the basement in a closet, not connected directly to any TV.

Here are my basic needs. All of these are currently working fine in SageTV:

1. I need a GOOD, reliable, and easy-to-configure and use EPG. When Time Warner adds new channels (or changes existing ones around) I need the system to notify me of these changes and fix itself. As far as the EPG interface itself, I need it accessible via a 10-foot UI (Theater View), similar to what you get with SageTV or a DirecTV box (I can browse around and see what is on and then select a show and either record it or tune to the channel if it is live). I also need to be able to configure the Clear QAM channels to "replace" the standard def analog channels that they represent, so that I have EPG data for those channels.

2. I need to be able to schedule "favorites" that will automatically record with settings to only record new episodes and things like that. It would also be nice to be able to search the EPG via keywords, title searches, etc. And, I'd like to be able to record "other airings" of selected shows/movies via the UI somehow. These "favorites" must be "show-based" not "time based" (in other words, it should automatically move and record on different days and times if the show suddenly switches to a different day or time, and should handle missed recordings if it sees additional airings of a particular episode).

3. I need it to work with my recording hardware RELIABLY. It must be able to use all three recording sources simultaneously (the HVR-2250 has two hardware tuners).

4. I need it to control my Motorola Digital Cable box via USB-UIRT blasting. I may get a second digital cable box down the road (and another HD-PVR or Colossus internal card), and so I'll need a way to control the two boxes separately (zones in the USB-UIRT).

5. I need some sort of recording conflict resolution system (when two "favorite" shows air at the same time). I need a way to manually set priorities. A way to designate particular "favorites" as "prefer first run episodes when possible" would be great as well (so that show you want to watch right when it airs always records on the first available air date/time).

6. Some logic to intelligently avoid conflicts would be ideal as well. For example, I have my HBO series recordings set to "pad" them by 5 minutes on either end, to make sure I don't miss any portion of the show if the start/end times float a bit. SageTV is smart enough that if it sees two consecutive recordings on the same channel, it ignores the ending/beginning padding settings (or else the padding of the first one in the sequence will cause the software to "skip" the second recording in the sequence). It also knows to prioritize shows that don't seem to have available repeat airings if there are conflicts. So, for example, if I have both Fringe and CSI set to record, and there is a conflict (both air at the same time on the same day, and say for the sake of argument that both are only available from my single digital cable box). But, it sees that Fringe will actually repeat the same episode at a different time two days later, but it doesn't see the CSI episode anywhere in the EPG data, it should prioritize the CSI episode recording.

7. I need to be able to view Live TV on my Client machines (those not directly connected to the cable TV feeds and HD-PVR). My recording system is NOT in my living room. It is in the basement, where the huge set of hard drives it uses doesn't bother me with noise, and the rats-nest of cables doesn't matter. This would include a laptop connected to my network via WiFi.

8. I need to be able to combine the EPG data from these different sources (QAM, Analog Cable, and Digital Cable via my HD-PVR) into one unified EPG. I don't want to see three or four copies of HBO or ABC in the EPG (or worse, have to deal with three different EPGs). In other words, I choose only channel 750 on my Digital Cable box as the "HBO Channel" (even though 121 is also HBO on the digital cable box, in SD, as is channel 27 on the Analog cable in SD). I pick HBO in the EPG, and it knows to use the HD-PVR because that's the only place that channel is available. On the other hand, ABC might be available on both of my QAM tuners AND my two analog tuners AND my digital cable box. In that case, I'd like to be able to use the Digital Cable box first, and if it is in-use, use QAM instead. So on and so forth... I need a "pool" of available recording devices, which can be tied to different physical channels, but not to have to see any of that complexity as the user... Just one EPG with all the channels I like included, and all the ones I hate edited out.

That's basically it. If MC offered these features, I would switch to using it. I'd be happy to pay extra for the EPG data if necessary (I'd rather do a one-time payment rather than a recurring monthly fee, otherwise I'd buy a TiVO, but this is negotiable).

I'd RATHER switch to MC. I know it does not offer all of these features. There are others I'd LIKE, but these are all really MUST-HAVEs. SageTV does handle everything described above (except for the "prefer first run" thing, but there is a way to hack around that).

Where do we stand? What is planned? Can I consider MC as a possible future replacement for Sage (over the next year or so), or do I need to start looking at Elgato and other alternatives?

Matt · « **Reply #1 on:** June 23, 2011, 03:46:19 pm »

Maybe you could try Media Center for a couple weeks?

A lot of what you're asking for was solved years ago. I personally use television, recording, and sharing it around the house more than any other area of the program at home.

glynor · « **Reply #2 on:** June 23, 2011, 04:05:28 pm »

Thanks for responding so quickly, Matt. Unfortunately, switching over for a "trial" isn't so easy because the system is essentially a "production system" and I don't have duplicates of all of the hardware (and service) to test it out. So, if I switch over, I have to shut down SageTV. If I shut down SageTV, then I miss all of my recordings if something doesn't work. That has a VERY poor Wife Acceptance Factor.

That's exactly why I'm asking... I'm willing to give it a test run. Especially now since it is the summer and I have a window when most of my shows aren't airing. However, the ones that are (HBO and AMC) are important. There's no point in going down a rabbit hole if the answer in the end is destined to be "no".

Last time I looked into this (which was about a year ago when I switched from BeyondTV to SageTV), there were at least a couple of deal-breakers with MC that I couldn't get around:

1. Watching Live TV via a Library Server client. This is ESSENTIAL for me, because we do actually watch "live" TV on occasion. Usually Sunday nights for the HBO series, but also sports. The show starts at 9pm, and we start watching at around 9:10. We would be watching on the HTPC mainly, which is not connected to, and does not have access to the HD-PVR, any recording cards, or even a cable feed. Has this been solved?

2. I don't remember the exact details, but I believe that the EPG in MC was not "unified". In other words, there was a separate channel listing and EPG for each tuner on the system. This is also a complete deal breaker for me. I don't know or care what physical device my shows are going to record on. I may even switch them out from time to time (only six months ago, I didn't have that HVR-2250, I had two ATI tuner cards instead). I set device priorities, and then the system figures it out. Again, I don't remember the details, but I discussed it with Yaobing and Jim and basically came up with "no, that won't work".

My point is, that there really isn't much point in trying it out (and going through that huge hassle) if MC can't handle 3 or 4 of the items from my list above. If there are a couple of things that don't work ideally now, but we know that it is being worked on over time (and I can help as an active user) and most of it works as I'd like, then fine, I will probably try it out... But the two things I just listed in this post (just above) are really essential, and I think they both were "no" when I last looked.

I also know you've made a bunch of improvements since last I looked, but I really haven't been paying close attention to that stuff, so I'm hoping someone can help me out and give me a point-by-point breakdown of what I can expect to encounter.

Matt · « **Reply #3 on:** June 23, 2011, 05:18:31 pm »

Things that work and that I use

Multiple tuners
Subscriptions
Priorities
Skipping things you've recorded in the past
Playing recording over Library Server (including over the internet)
Playing things that are recording now over Library Server (including over the internet)
Scheduling recordings on a client

Things that should work, but I don't test personally

IR tuning / cablebox controlling

cncb · « **Reply #4 on:** June 23, 2011, 05:25:17 pm »

Unfortunately, there isn't even any conflict indication. I have requested that they put some kind of icon in the recording list to indicate a conflict but as it is now programs will just not record and there is no indication why.

Also, note that Theater View is currently just for playback. Setting up subscriptions, modifying recordings, seeing recordings schedule, etc. is all done in Standard View.

glynor · « **Reply #5 on:** June 23, 2011, 06:19:26 pm »

Thanks Matt and cncb. That really helps.

Can anyone answer if the EPG is "unified" like a "normal" DVR application?

Either way, since it does now apparently support playing content that is recording now to a Library Server client, I think it will be worth setting up and trying out. That was the biggest thing holding me back before. I doubt that I'll be able to switch to it full-time (but who knows), but I think it will be worth trying, testing, and helping out with now.

Matt · « **Reply #6 on:** June 23, 2011, 06:46:59 pm »

Quote from: glynor on June 23, 2011, 06:19:26 pm

Can anyone answer if the EPG is "unified" like a "normal" DVR application?

We dress each program in a striped shirt and then make you look for it Where's Waldo style.

Or maybe it's just a normal EPG.

glynor · « **Reply #7 on:** June 23, 2011, 07:44:07 pm »

Quote from: Matt on June 23, 2011, 06:46:59 pm

We dress each program in a striped shirt and then make you look for it Where's Waldo style.

Or maybe it's just a normal EPG.

Ha!

No... What I mean is: Is there a separate guide for each tuner? I thought I remembered this being the case, but I could be drunk or crazy or something.

nwboater · « **Reply #8 on:** June 23, 2011, 07:53:51 pm »

As many of you know I'm also a long time SageTV user. Even before the Google buyout I have wanted to be able to use MC for all media. Now that I'm going to Active Equalization for our left, right and center speakers this is even more of a need.

Glynors want list basically echoes mine. In addition we would find it very cumbersome to not be able to do all functions related to TV watching, scheduling and recording with a 10' interface. That just doesn't make sense.

I'm not at all clear from the various posts what the current guide looks like. Is it a single row of listings by time, or is it a grid? Do multiple tuners require more than one guide?

And finally commercial skipping via Comskip or similar is essential. We have another thread going on that so wont belabor it here.

If most of the answers here turn out favorable I may also try it. I'm a little like Glynor in that I'm very worried for WAF about breaking our existing system.

It does sound from Matt as if a lot of headway has been made in the past year on TV. It also seems that much further needs to be done to make it a fully usable system for many of us that are accustomed to a very mature PVR application. But that's what JRiver excels at - taking a good application and making it great!

Rod

eapool · « **Reply #9 on:** June 23, 2011, 09:13:50 pm »

I have been recently moving away from DirectTV and using my antenna/ Media Center for television. While the solution isn't perfect, it is getting closer everyday. I don't know if this will answer any questions, but maybe it will help. I have four tuners in my server (hd homerun (2 tuners), the jriver usb tuner, and some random tuner from my wife's old computer). The server is connected to the living room tv for viewing. I have a hardwired client in the bedroom and a wireless client on the sunroom. We also use our laptops for misc view in other locations.

The wired client is flawless. The wireless clients to stutter once in a while, but I think it is more a function of the connection speed and not Media Center.

There is only one EPG for all four tuners. I set it up on the server and it is sent to all the clients when the library is updated. I use my laptop to schedule recordings and it has all the options I could ask for, except for conflict indication/ resolution. I can pad the beginning and the end. I can set it to record first run or all showings, etc. Media Center automatically grabs the next available tuner and starts recording. When the President was on the other day, I went in and added 10 min to the end of each recording for the night. I was able to add it for only that recording and not affect the rest of the subscription (I could not delay the start of the recording)

I can watch a show as it is being recorded on any of the clients. I do have a problem if I get to close to the live show. As long as I stay about 5 min behind the 'live' broadcast I am ok, but if I get much closer, I start getting stuttering, etc.

Live TV - since I am using HD Homerun, I can watch live TV on any computer in the house. I set the tuners up in J River and it uses the EPG from the server. The HD Homerun manages the available tuners.

Overall, I am happy with the solution. I wish there was an EPG grid in theater view that would allow me to continue watching the show as I browse for another show to watch. I wish there was a way to schedule recordings from my andriod.

I hope this answers some questions,

Alex

glynor · « **Reply #10 on:** June 23, 2011, 10:14:17 pm »

Great information, Alex. Thank you!

I'm definitely going to give it a try. I just have to find some time in my schedule when nothing important will be missed for a while, and try it then.

I agree, conflict resolution and a program grid in Theater View would be pretty important. But I think I might be able to live without it for a bit, if I thought it might be coming down the road.

PS. I think it could actually be quite useful to NOT try to emulate the normal 10-foot UI system in Standard View. When I am sitting at my computer with a mouse and keyboard, it always annoys me trying to schedule things on Sage (and BTV before it). Having both a solid mouse/keyboard designed experience in Standard View and a 10-foot friendly "grid" view in Theater View seems like it would be the best of both worlds.

glynor · « **Reply #11 on:** June 23, 2011, 10:59:12 pm »

One other feature from Sage I've really come to rely on is the ability to set a "keep at most" setting on individual favorites. It has let me do some nifty things.

For example, I like to watch the BBC News when I can and I want a TV News fix. The American 24-hour news channels all make me want to puke after only a few minutes, and I can't stand all the terrible ads (even with the ability to skip them). But, really, I hardly ever actually watch them, and PBS airs like 3 or 4 different "episodes" per day, and I'm really only interested in the latest version. So, I simply set it to one. It records the new one, and then deletes the old one when it finishes. I can set it to record these and never have to worry about how much space it is gobbling up. I always have the "latest" edition sitting there if and when I want it (conveniently, these also air at odd hours so they never conflict with anything).

Likewise, I record and watch The Daily Show and The Colbert Report. But I go in fits and starts watching those shows, and I never go back to really old ones (and if I did want to, they have a nice website for that). So, I set those favorites to 5 or 6 (or so). I always have a few of the latest episodes, but not old ones from two months ago piling up.

It is a very handy feature. Not sure if MC can handle this, but if not, it would be a good one for the list.

nwboater · « **Reply #12 on:** June 23, 2011, 11:02:16 pm »

So I just walked into the Rec Room and my wife is sprawled out on the couch with remote in hand. She is scheduling recordings on the big screen. But not from an EPG: She is doing it from a Genre based listing that goes a week out. She decided she wanted some Comedy, so was scrolling through that Genre choosing shows to record in the next week. This is not a dream - she was doing that in SageTV. If I recall it's using a Plug-in for that function, but it's all so seamless I'm not even sure.

So many wonderful things can be done!

Good Evening,
Rod

PS Dear JRiver, Please don't take mention of things we like in Sage as a put down of MC. It's only to point out stuff that is very useful and that you may want to consider implementing.

imugli · « **Reply #13 on:** June 24, 2011, 01:47:14 am »

TBH I'm hoping that SageTV being bought by Google is the best thing that happens to MC.

For years I've had this thought that TV functionality was the poor cousin in terms of ongoing development within MC.

I've always thought MC did a lot of things better than other packages, while those it didn't were still acceptable for my needs, so I went with it.

Glynor, I share your desire for Place-shifting and have asked for this many times. Not the ability to play a recording in "almost" real time, but real place shifting.
Purely in terms of WAF, I would prefer a grid-like EPG layout ala Sage / MythTV, with a preview window (The missus still prefers to go online to get a grid-view guide than use JRMCs, which kind of defeats the purpose, and to be honest, I think part of the reason I don't follow suit is pride more than anything - I spent so long setting the thing up and configuring it that I'm going to use it god darn it! :-) )
The option to configure a generic record x minutes before and after setting, rather than having to do it on a per-recording basis would also be great.
I've also stuck my hand up for the info button on the remote to bring up OSD with program synopsis - again something I would think Myth and sage would have (though I haven't used Myth in years).

Sage getting bought out presents JR with an emormous opportunity. Jim, the fanfare this is causing would indicate to me that there are people looking to JR step up to fill the gap being left. I'd like to throw my support behind that as well.

eapool · « **Reply #14 on:** June 24, 2011, 03:45:22 am »

I guess there are a couple other 'features' that would make housekeeping a little easier. A 'keep at most' feature would be helpful. Also, since we can't delete from the clients, it makes it a little more difficult to delete the programs after we watch them. Again, I can work with it, but it would be nice to have some way to remove programs after you watch them.

Alex

JimH · « **Reply #15 on:** June 24, 2011, 06:27:54 am »

Quote from: eapool on June 24, 2011, 03:45:22 am

I guess there are a couple other 'features' that would make housekeeping a little easier. A 'keep at most' feature would be helpful. Also, since we can't delete from the clients, ...

You can delete from a client, if you set up a login and password on the server. That change was made almost a year ago.

cncb · « **Reply #16 on:** June 24, 2011, 07:58:31 am »

Quote from: eapool on June 23, 2011, 09:13:50 pm

I can set it to record first run or all showings, etc.

Note that this is not first run in the "rerun" sense. It is based on if you have previously recorded the particular episode or not. I don't know if MC even imports the "rerun" status from the guide data but it would be nice to have the option to look at this too so that you don't record a bunch of old episodes of a program subscription that you may have just added.

I agree on the "Keep at most" option and have requested it in the past. I find it especially useful for kids programs that are recorded every day but I just want to keep 1 at all times.

eapool · « **Reply #17 on:** June 24, 2011, 11:25:33 am »

Quote from: JimH on June 24, 2011, 06:27:54 am

You can delete from a client, if you set up a login and password on the server. That change was made almost a year ago.

I guess I missed this. I must have read an old post and then when I tried it and it didn't work, so I assumed this was why. I will give it another try. Thanks for the clarification.

Alex

Yaobing · « **Reply #18 on:** June 26, 2011, 12:28:22 pm »

Quote from: glynor on June 23, 2011, 07:44:07 pm

Ha!

No... What I mean is: Is there a separate guide for each tuner? I thought I remembered this being the case, but I could be drunk or crazy or something.

There is a separate guide for each group of tuners. All ATSC (or DVB-T) tuners share the same digital TV guide. All analog cable tuners share a analog cable guide. STB tuners have their own guides individually, perhaps this is what you use.

glynor · « **Reply #19 on:** June 26, 2011, 06:17:37 pm »

Quote from: Yaobing on June 26, 2011, 12:28:22 pm

There is a separate guide for each group of tuners. All ATSC (or DVB-T) tuners share the same digital TV guide. All analog cable tuners share a analog cable guide. STB tuners have their own guides individually, perhaps this is what you use.

Thanks, Yaobing. Nice to see that you're doing well enough to post here!

I'm going to continue trying to make the switch. I don't know that I'll stick with it, but I think we'll learn a lot in the process. I think the current system (as described) does have a benefit or two, most importantly: it makes it easy and straightforward to specify which type of tuner you want to record a particular program. However, I'm not sure the trade-off required (which essentially requires you to "map out" the schedule yourself to avoid conflicts) is worth that benefit in usability.

That said? It may not matter in practice. That's part of why I'm trying to switch. I want to challenge my preconceived notions of what a PVR application really needs to do for me, if it is tied with all of the other power of MC and Theater View on the front end. I just don't know at this point. I think I do, but maybe I'm wrong.

I would appreciate, when you're back in action (no rush at all, I can wait), a comment on the other thread. I haven't done a search for the HD-PVR info I'm sure you've already posted yet, and maybe that'll solve my logjam, but for now, I'm stuck.

nwboater · « **Reply #20 on:** June 26, 2011, 06:28:01 pm »

Multiple guides are not presently a problem for us since we only have one tuner, an HDPVR. But I think my non techie wife (and me too) would be very unhappy having to go through multiple guides when selecting what to record. Seems cumbersome and a lot to keep track of.

Were multiple guides chosen because it is deemed better for the user or because it was easier to implement?

I'm closely following your progress Glynor and want to thank you again for doing this.

Yaobing - sure hope you are getting better and that the recovery is not too difficult.

Rod

Yaobing · « **Reply #21 on:** June 27, 2011, 12:09:42 pm »

Quote from: glynor on June 26, 2011, 06:17:37 pm

Thanks, Yaobing. Nice to see that you're doing well enough to post here!

Quote from: nwboater on June 26, 2011, 06:28:01 pm

Yaobing - sure hope you are getting better and that the recovery is not too difficult.

Thanks. I am doing fine. No fever, no nausea, no (much) pain. I guess that is pretty good after surgery. I am going to need to take it easy for a few days though.

Quote from: nwboater on June 26, 2011, 06:28:01 pm

Multiple guides are not presently a problem for us since we only have one tuner, an HDPVR. But I think my non techie wife (and me too) would be very unhappy having to go through multiple guides when selecting what to record. Seems cumbersome and a lot to keep track of.

Were multiple guides chosen because it is deemed better for the user or because it was easier to implement?

I am not sure of the answer to your last question. Here is what the guide looks like on my machine, after running mc2xml twice (once for cable channels, once for Digital Terrestrial Lineup). It lists programs per channel. "5 WMAQ" is an STB channel, i.e. cable box fed into HD PVR, whereas "5-1 WMAQ" is the corresponding ATSC channel.

glynor · « **Reply #22 on:** June 27, 2011, 07:47:28 pm »

Thanks for the screenshot, Yaobing. That helps to make it clear what it'll look like when I get it all set up.

I realize that my desire for a "unified" EPG might not be totally clear to people who haven't used one similar to what I'm used to (and to what I believe nwboater is looking for), so I think I should explain further a bit. I might be reading the situation wrong, and overexplaining something that is quite clear. If so, sorry, ignore me. But if not, maybe this will help...

Quote from: Yaobing on June 27, 2011, 12:09:42 pm

It lists programs per channel. "5 WMAQ" is an STB channel, i.e. cable box fed into HD PVR, whereas "5-1 WMAQ" is the corresponding ATSC channel.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I was also worried that the different guides would actually be on different pages (ie: not listed or "sorted" together), but I suspected that wasn't the case. Your screenshot confirms that it is not. What I was talking about is perfectly illustrated by your screenshot, though... You have two lines, which point to two different tuning devices, that list the same exact program data all the time. They aren't just two channels that happen to be airing the same thing at the same time, but which sometimes have different programming. They are literally two different representations of the same channel, on different physical hardware devices.

If properly configured, this does not happen on SageTV. Ever.

To give you a real world example, I'll use my current setup in SageTV. I have five distinct tuners in my system (though only three that can be used totally independently because they share hardware):

1. HD-PVR connected to my digital cable box
2. HVR-2250 Digital QAM/ATSC Tuner #1
3. HVR-2250 Analog NTSC Tuner #1
4. HVR-2250 Digital QAM/ATSC Tuner #1
5. HVR-2250 Analog NTSC Tuner #1
(In the list above, 2+3 share hardware, so if one is "in-use" the other is unavailable. Likewise, 4+5 share a totally separate set of hardware.)

These five devices can each have their own "channel lineups", if you want to, but I have three lineups configured: an analog one, a QAM one, and a HD-PVR/Cable Box one).

However, the channels are mapped such that you don't ever see duplicates. Each "channel object" in SageTV is ultimately mapped via three independent items:

1. Logical Channel
2. Physical Channel
3. Station

The Physical Channel is the simplest. This is the actual channel that the computer "tunes" the hardware tuner to in order to display the channel. This tuner might be an external set-top box controlled by an IR blaster, it might be a ATSC or QAM channel, or it might be the analog tuner.

The Logical Channel is basically the sort order. It is a "virtual channel" type of object that you can use to make different channels combine in the guide, and sort in different orders. This is by-default set to match the physical channel, but can be changed arbitrarily to any number you want (or to no number at all, and then they sort to the "bottom" of the list in the guide grid).

The Station is the guide data source. This is the ABC, HBO East, ESPN2, etc. You match these to your "channel objects" and then this is the guide data they use and display.

What this means in practice is this:

On my system, I have three separate "versions" of my normal local FOX affiliate. I could have more, but I have some edited out. These are:

channel 81-1 on my QAM tuners
channel 4 on my NTSC tuners (analog cable)
channel 704 on my digital cable box (the HD version of FOX on my digital cable). The digital cable box also has a Standard Def version of FOX, that is channel 4, but I have that edited out of my list. If you're going to use the HD-PVR, and I get the channel in HD, you're going to use the HD version.

All of these show up only once in the guide as channel 4, once. They all share the exact same guide data, and are set to the same "logical channel", so they only show once in the guide. If I scroll through the grid, and pick that channel, and hit "watch now", it decides which tuner to use based on the tuner priorities:

1. QAM
2. HD-PVR
3. Analog

Since the analog and QAM tuners share hardware, in this case, it will never be recorded on the analog tuners unless one of the digital ones is broken or otherwise disconnected. If I start playing something, and both of the QAM tuners are busy, it'll tune my cable box to 704 and use the HD-PVR.

For a different example, I have HBO. HBO is not available via QAM, but is on the analog cable feed (only the "regular" HBO, not any of the "special" ones, but it is still there). HBO is channel 750 on my Digital Cable box (again, the HD feed is the only one I care about), and it is channel 21 on my analog tuners. These are mapped to logical channel 750 in my guide. I could have just as easily used channel 21 as the logical channel (or 387 or 68952 if I wanted). But, using 750 grouped them nicely. If I scroll through my guide and tune to HBO (again, only listed once in the grid), it'll tune my digital cable box to channel 750 and start playing. If the HD-PVR is already in-use, then it'll tune to channel 21 using one of the two analog tuners.

Some channels in my guide are available across multiple tuners like that, and then some are only available on one. For example, the only version of the Reelz channel I have is on the digital cable box, not in HD (channel 121). I can still remap these to different logical channel numbers if I want them to "group" or "sort" differently.

The only thing about this system I don't like is the logical channels. They are really a bit of a kludge to allow you to use the familiar "type in a two or three digit set of numbers to change to a different channel" UI to a "dumb TV" that we all remember from our childhoods (or most of us, except the real youngins). It would make more sense to really be able to get rid of the channel numbers altogether, and just tune directly to the individual "stations" (HBO, WABI, PBS, etc)... They are CERTAINLY necessary in SageTV, though, mostly to allow you to quickly skip through multiple "pages" of the grid to get close to the channel you want, when picking from hundreds of stations. But that's more of a flaw in the 10-foot only, remote control interface "grid" system they have, than a need to manually input channels. I usually don't remember that HBO is 750. I usually just type 700, which gets me close, and then page down in the grid to find the one I want.

Standard View in MC would not have that limitation, but I think anything you do remotely "grid like" in Theater View (in the future) would probably have some of these limitations... But maybe not! Maybe you could group the channels into "folders" and then you'd drill down into them via Theater View! In any case, I have no need to know or care that some guy at Time Warner's office in Bangor decided that in my area HBO was going to be on "channel #750, channel #160, and channel #21". The numbers are irrelevant, and just a "sorting and quick-change" hack as far as I'm concerned. We don't use TVs that way anymore, and we certainly don't use HTPC DVR software that way, so why are they designed to emulate the clunky behavior of analog television sets?

So, what don't I like about your system? That if I'm deciding to record a show from now on, I have to decide which tuner type I want to use to record it. I can't just say "record this show on this station, I don't care what tuner you use, just follow my priorities to use the best one possible for that particular channel at that particular moment." There aren't two copies of channel 5 "logically" in your screenshot. There only are physically. This could also be a good thing, in some edge cases though... One thing I do "fiddle with" on Sage occasionally is manually "locking" certain favorites (what Sage calls subscribed shows) to certain tuners. Otherwise, sometimes it decides to record a particular show on HBO using an analog tuner, when it could have used the HD-PVR instead an hour later when the conflicting show repeated. So, the fact that your system is manual could be handy sometimes, but mostly not (and that's mostly because Sage's UI stinks).

Now.... I realize that is NOT how MC works currently. I'm still going to try it. The single-list is close enough that I'm willing to give it a go. But I wanted to explain exactly what I meant by a "unified EPG". That's what I meant: There is only one HBO, regardless of how many tuners I have and what physical channels they use to get it.

glynor · « **Reply #23 on:** June 27, 2011, 10:44:16 pm »

I'm thinking about grid-view channel guides, and the more I think about it, the less I'm convinced that implementing one is really a good fit for MC, even long-term. Consider this:

When you use a modern PVR, you have one of three basic tasks that you're typically going to do as an end-user:

1. Watch a pre-recorded show.
2. Browse around and pick out stuff to record in the future (manually picking movies or events, and selecting favorites).
3. Watch something that happens to be on right now (airing live), either because it is sports, news, or you just don't have anything good recorded and you just want "something to watch".

MC's Theater View already handles #1 extremely well. You don't need to worry about that (except my dots, call me dots man). Mostly, what we're looking at is functions #2 and #3.

A grid-style guide that you navigate with up/down/left/right/enter, similar to what you get with DirecTV (probably first popularized by them) and Digital Cable in the US, is really designed for task #3, and is actually exceptionally poor at task #2. This is obvious. When the grid-guide systems were designed, you couldn't use them to record things that were happening in the future! Once PVRs did become available, the solution seemed obvious. Use that same grid system, but make it so you can go off to the right and not just see what is coming up, but pick them, and set them to record. It was like a VCR that you could program "visually", because that's how it was built, and that's where it came from.

But I'd argue that for most owners of a PVR, tasks #1-2 slowly but surely become much, much more relevant and common, and #3 ends up being reserved mostly for sports and occasional news when "something is happening". If you have sufficient storage capacity, you almost always have something in there for those times when you have 30 minutes to kill and you can't move because you're feeding the baby (not that this ever happens to me, of course not). Basically all PVR owners I've ever talked to say that they very rarely just "watch what is on". Television becomes about picking from what is available, or scheduling for events (sports and whatnot).

And that's a problem for most PVR systems. Their main UI for navigating and choosing from the incoming stream of content is designed primarily for task #3, which becomes less and less relevant over time as the user acclimates to the capabilities of the new system. The "Grid" is certainly familiar, but is it best for task number 2? No. Clearly not. I can't tell you how many hours I've spent scrolling through channels looking to see what is interesting that is coming up. I do it randomly. With no kind of system, and I only look at a handful of "favorite channels" because the UI makes it so I can only see 5 or 6 of them at a time. The way most PVR software vendors have tried to work around this is with search. They make it so you can search the shows' metadata, to find what you want. (BTW... I suspect this is Google's plan for SageTV too. They're going to "solve" the problem of "finding what you can watch or record" by strapping it to a better search engine than previous PVR vendors have given us.)

But I'm not convinced that search, no matter how implemented, is going to be an ideal interface for a television-like experience. First of all, sometimes search itself just isn't what you need. Sometimes you don't know what you want to record, so you don't know what to search for. You do just want to "see what is on", but over a period of time, from a range of "channel" sources. For example, HBO is just now ending their current set of original series (Game of Thrones and Treme), and starting new ones. But if I don't know that True Blood and Entourage are "what's next" (something you'd normally learn via advertising which I skip past), I don't know to search for them. For search to work, you have to be looking for something specific. It has a place, but is it best? And then there's the UI problem. You don't have a keyboard on the couch (very often, I do most times of course, but I'm a nerd). Even when I do have my keyboard, I don't usually want to use it to pick out something to watch. It is a lean-back experience, not a lean-forward one. So, assuming you haven't perfected the mystery of voice-activated search in a noisy living room (yeah, good luck with that), you strap on some sort of onscreen keyboard-via-arrow-keys and enter or cellphone-style-number-typing monster. Or, you design a remote like this.

And no one searches very much, because it is a PITA to type in with that remote and those tiny cursors, and it freaks out when you hit the number keys (cellphone style typing on a TV is only for experts). So, when I know exactly what I'm looking for, I'll go in and search and suffer the onscreen keyboard nightmare or pull out my physical keyboard or AirMouse. But most of the time? I end up skipping to the right manually through the guide, a day at a time, till I find that time slot two weeks in the future on a particular channel (swearing when the guide data ends 1 day too early), hoping that I can see "what is on" and then decide whether to record it. This says nothing of that cool movie they're airing on AMC next Friday that I'll never see because I never bothered to check that channel because it was more than 5 arbitrary "channels" away from HBO in the list.

So, search can help, but it also isn't a perfect answer to task #2 above.

But maybe there's another way. Maybe the grid plus search isn't the answer, and there is a better way.

glynor · « **Reply #24 on:** June 27, 2011, 11:36:38 pm »

Imagine no grids...

So, you open the new Program Guide in Theater View, and you get these choices. What kind of airings do you want to look for?

Airing Now: Well, if you want something that just happens to be airing right now? You pick Airing Now. Then, it presents a fairly straightforward Theater View list of all of the currently airing shows on all of the channels that MC can "see", and maybe those that'll start airing within the next hour and a half or so (you want to turn on the right channel on for the upcoming "big game", and you'll watch the pre-game stuff or the end of the preceding game while you wait). It doesn't list shows twice, even if they are on multiple channels. Just the shows, in some kind of rational sorting scheme (hopefully user-sortable using the rollers inside the next view down).

This view is limited to what is on now, or just coming up. That keeps the list smaller and more manageable, and it is perfectly suited for task #3 listed above. That task is less important for the PVR user, but you still need to be able to do it. It is what a TV-user expects. If something is far enough away that you'd have to scroll to the right to see it in a classic grid-style view, it isn't in the list. You don't need the grid, because it is filtered! For stuff that doesn't "make the list" because it is not "on now"? That's what the rest of the Program Guide is for...

Movies: This one is easy, so I'll get it out of the way. It lists any movies MC can "see" in the current or future program guide data, as far out as it can see. You can browse just a big list of all of the upcoming movies. When you "open up" a particular movie, you can see details from the guide (descriptions, channel, when it is airing including multiple future airings on multiple channels, and other metadata), and use the rollers to record it, or delete the recording schedule or whatever. You can even have a range of different types of Movie views, using the view roller inside once you open up the main Movies view. You can browse the movies collected by Genre, or Actors, or Director, or Channel with these different sub views.

TV Series, Sports, News, and Other: I imagine now you get the idea, but TV Series are organized by the Series. You can drill down into the Series and see the individual episodes that are upcoming. Pick some or all of them to record, or schedule the show as a favorite. For sports, you can pick from a list (that changes on the fly depending on what types of future airings are "available") listing Baseball, Basketball, Football (both US-style and Soccer, you fight that localization out, I prefer soccer), Hockey, and maybe even Curling if you live somewhere weird like me. Open that tier up, and it shows you the games, which are handled just like TV Show episodes. Maybe instead you browse by team, or region. I don't know what metadata you can pull out of the listings, but I know that you can get something like this. Same goes with News programs: let you browse to find that episode of Nightline or even Good Morning America that you want to record next week because it has a cool topic by show or category (maybe, if you can do it cleanly, you have a special sub-view under News highlighting just the handful of "on-now" news programs, because often when you want news, you want what is on right now). Other would be a browsable list of everything that doesn't fit nicely into these categories, perhaps with drill-down categories of its own (Religious, Shopping, Cartoons/Kids, etc). If the user can make actually make their own "views" using this system, you on the first roller you could please everyone. Maybe I don't care about Sports very often, but really care about Kids programming, so I'd rather make Kids a higher level view and demote Sports to Other. The existing Theater View configuration system could handle this, just like it does for other views. You'd only need a handful of "special views" (like Airing Now, Search, and maybe that special news view I mentioned).

By Channel: I still think browsing by channel has a place. As I said, I like a lot of HBO original programming. If I want to browse in and see what HBO has coming up, then this would be the way. I open up By Channel and I get a list of all my channels (Thumbnail view style could be nice here, with good channel logos, but I'd still probably use Lineup view). I find CBS or HBO or AMC or whatever, open it, and I have a chronological list of all the stuff they're airing. Current airing show on top, but a simple scroll-down list of what is upcoming out as far as it can see.

Even better? For finding those channels... You could actually group (or let the user group) the channels rationally, instead of by whatever stupid system the networks buy and pay for. I can put all of the ESPN, NESN, Fox Sports Network, etc channels into a "Sports" folder. Arts and Science would hold Discovery, Bravo, National Geograpic, and Lifetime. News would hold CNN, MSNBC, BBC, and Al Jazeera. So on and so forth. You'd actually be able to find those channels and look at what they have.

Search Airings: And, of course, search. Theater View already has a search UI. Use it for the guide data here.

All of this could be built using the existing Theater View UI widgetry. You wouldn't need any fancy new Grid-View UI system. It might even be better without one. You'd be handling Future Airings using the power that already exists within MC's database driven Metadata browser. I think it would beat the socks off of a Grid-View + Search system any day.

Basically, you'd have to parse the program data and convert the "airings" into database "objects" and treat them like files, and then build the metadata about these objects using whatever information about them is available in the guide data. I know Sage can browse and highlight shows using all sorts of metadata "tags" that must exist in the Zap2It guide data, but the UI is clumsy and mostly search driven (the color coding in the grid is cool though).

I really think this could be the answer. I mean, if you can do a grid too (and if so, put it under Airing Now), great. But I think most people wouldn't need it with something like this.

imugli · « **Reply #25 on:** June 28, 2011, 01:03:40 am »

I've thought about this for 5 minutes or so, trying to pick a hole in it.

The ultimate test I can give anything is the WAF test, and I can just hear my wife saying at 2:30pm or 4:00pm "Why can't I just look and see what is on every channel tonight at 8:30 like I do on the net? Why do I need to go into every channel individually?"

Unfortunately, not everyone is fortunate enough to have so much content to choose either to watch or to record and watch later, thus a daily grid-type guide is still appropriate (though I do envy you

)

The rest of it - love it - especially the bit re pulling meta data from the guide and being able to define menu items using it.

glynor · « **Reply #26 on:** June 28, 2011, 01:22:57 am »

Quote from: imugli on June 28, 2011, 01:03:40 am

The ultimate test I can give anything is the WAF test, and I can just hear my wife saying at 2:30pm or 4:00pm "Why can't I just look and see what is on every channel tonight at 8:30 like I do on the net? Why do I need to go into every channel individually?"

I agree... The "what's on tonight" thing is a good use case for the skipping ahead in the guide method. It still isn't easy at 2:30pm to skip ahead and find the right "spot" in a grid guide, though, and you still have a mountain of channels to sift through. But, if you have limited recording space (even though terabyte drives are cheap as peanuts these days), you might want to sift through "primetime" a week at a time or so. And then the problem is that if you want to find primetime tomorrow, the UI ends up getting clunky. You either need to precision skip ahead through 24 hours, or you need to switch buttons on the remote (and know which buttons do which) and find the "quick skip ahead" button for the guide). I do this, all the time. It works, but... Meh.

Hmmm... But it could show you that kind of thing in a view too, if you wanted. You could conceivably make a "On Tonight" view that lists the primetime shows on a few selected channels. Maybe one that shows each day of the next upcoming week (or two). You drill down into the day of the week, and it lists the shows from the channels you pick (so you could pick the networks or your favorite channels or whatever, a handful) for 8-11pm each night. If you can filter these views using the drill-down system and a few new metadata tools, you could do a lot.

I'm not saying the grid guide should be thrown out of consideration, if it is possible. In a perfect world, maybe you'd have a conventional Grid Style guide for the Airing Now section of my screenshot above. Heck, a general-purpose grid-style view in Theater View that you could use to browse a variety of things and display content could be amazing in a few places, maybe even other than here. But that might be a huge project, and maybe you don't need it.... Either way, this is stuff the existing UI of MC can do now, without major modifications. You know... It is a little bit of not letting perfection be the enemy of progress and all that, but I'm also curios. This could work extremely well, in the end, for the tasks at hand, even without the grid. It could end up better because it forces you to think about the tasks in a different, but more logical way.

You couldn't know until you tried, and you could always plan to implement the Grid View if needed down the road.

glynor · « **Reply #27 on:** June 28, 2011, 01:27:00 am »

I do think that to be useful, it would need at least one new piece of UI chrome, but I think it would be a minor one:

Grouping, like you can do in Standard View with the Details style list-view, would be very useful for times-of-day. For example, in the "On Primetime" list I just thought of above, where you have 6-8 pre-selected favorite channels, and show the primetime shows for each 30 minute time slot would be a lot easier to read with 8:00, 8:30, 9:00, etc groups displayed visually on the screen as you scroll down.

glynor · « **Reply #28 on:** June 28, 2011, 01:34:43 am »

The Grid View also wouldn't work well with the existing navigation system in Theater View (everything accessible with arrow keys, enter, and sometimes green button). How would you "arrow out" of it once you "arrowed into" it from the rollers or the previous view? You'd have to make it a hard-switch (out of regular Theater View land, and into Grid-View land) and use ESC to exit, but that adds a new key requirement.

It would be workable, certainly. But not ideal.

nwboater · « **Reply #29 on:** June 28, 2011, 08:04:21 am »

Original Post content Deleted - On further reading Glynor has gone way beyond what I was referring to.

Great approach Glynor. You have combined the way people actually should use a system with what is possible now without a major effort (hopefully) from JRiver.

Thanks for all your super thinking and writing!!!

Rod

PS Do you sleep?

nwboater · « **Reply #30 on:** June 28, 2011, 08:31:02 am »

Quote from: glynor on June 28, 2011, 01:34:43 am

The Grid View also wouldn't work well with the existing navigation system in Theater View (everything accessible with arrow keys, enter, and sometimes green button). How would you "arrow out" of it once you "arrowed into" it from the rollers or the previous view? You'd have to make it a hard-switch (out of regular Theater View land, and into Grid-View land) and use ESC to exit, but that adds a new key requirement.

It would be workable, certainly. But not ideal.

Menu, or Back button.

Rod

glynor · « **Reply #31 on:** June 28, 2011, 10:40:44 am »

Quote from: nwboater on June 28, 2011, 08:31:02 am

Menu, or Back button.

Right, but a LONG STANDING stated goal of the UI design of Theater View is that it will work perfectly well with access to ONLY:

1. Arrow Keys
2. Enter
3. and a later addition to this list was the "Green Button" (which does the same thing as the "Theater View" command in MC).

This was to ensure easy, simple navigation and to make sure that even VERY simple remotes (like maybe the Apple IR Remote, for example) would "qualify" as fully functional Theater View controllers.

Adding this, would almost certainly require access to a "Back" or "ESC" command, which would mean adding another button to the long-standing requirements.

PS. I'll sleep when I'm dead.

nwboater · « **Reply #32 on:** June 28, 2011, 10:47:26 am »

Quote from: glynor on June 28, 2011, 10:40:44 am

PS. I'll sleep when I'm dead.

We do need to keep you alive long enough to get TV going properly in MC. Please hang in there!!!

Rod

imugli · « **Reply #33 on:** June 28, 2011, 11:26:36 am »

Quote from: nwboater on June 28, 2011, 08:04:21 am

Original Post content Deleted - On further reading Glynor has gone way beyond what I was referring to.

Great approach Glynor. You have combined the way people actually should use a system with what is possible now without a major effort (hopefully) from JRiver.

Thanks for all your super thinking and writing!!!

+1

Being able to program a view for "Prime Time" is something that I could take to my wife and be comfortable that she would 'accept' it...

Matt · « **Reply #34 on:** June 28, 2011, 11:31:27 am »

Glynor, you can already create Theater View views that use the programming guide. Guide entries are just regular database entries in a different location. You can get them with the search / smartlist: ~d=g

Maybe you could frame up what you think would be good and try it for a while?

glynor · « **Reply #35 on:** June 28, 2011, 12:28:34 pm »

I plan to try it out, as soon as I can get my guide data and tuners to work at all.

I had no idea. If this is possible already, you might be able to create exactly what I described (or most of it anyway) VERY easily.

rpalmer68 · « **Reply #36 on:** June 30, 2011, 12:34:03 am »

Quote from: Matt on June 28, 2011, 11:31:27 am

Glynor, you can already create Theater View views that use the programming guide. Guide entries are just regular database entries in a different location. You can get them with the search / smartlist: ~d=g

Maybe you could frame up what you think would be good and try it for a while?

Gee I got all excited and rushed in to make a guide view in thetare view, only to find the progam data in the DB is missing a lot of stuff, like the channel name (it has a number under channel) and easy to use time & date fields.
Might take more digging than I'd hoped

glynor · « **Reply #37 on:** June 30, 2011, 12:56:59 am »

Quote from: rpalmer68 on June 30, 2011, 12:34:03 am

Gee I got all excited and rushed in to make a guide view in thetare view, only to find the progam data in the DB is missing a lot of stuff, like the channel name (it has a number under channel) and easy to use time & date fields.
Might take more digging than I'd hoped

What do you have in there?

rpalmer68 · « **Reply #38 on:** June 30, 2011, 01:48:15 am »

Quote from: glynor on June 30, 2011, 12:56:59 am

What do you have in there?

It has some information, like a channel number, name, keywords (genres), but things like the date/time seem to be stored in the filename slong with other information.

I could send you a library backup if you want to have a closer look, PM me your email address if you'd like me to.

Richard

imugli · « **Reply #39 on:** July 01, 2011, 02:35:01 am »

I'm (obviously) seeing the same thing. Sorting by date/time doesn't seem to be possible from what can see at the moment. Certainly, trying to get a custom view showing all programs showing tonight between 6pm and 10pm looks beyond MC at this stage...

imugli · « **Reply #40 on:** July 01, 2011, 03:21:02 am »

While we're on this, it seems as though when parsing guide data, the "Title" tag is parsed to the "Name" field in MC IF there is no "Sub Title" tag in the xml document.

If there IS a "Subtitle" tag, the "Title" tag gets parsed to the "Series" field in MC and the "Subtitle" tag gets parsed to the "Name" field.

The consequence being that if there is no "Subtitle" info in the guide data, the Series info is missing in MC.

However, in Theater View, the display rule seems to be -

IF "Series" is not null, display "Series":"Name" else display "Name" only.

It seems to be 'counter-clockwise'...

Might I suggest it would be easier (for everyone) if the "Title" tag ALWAYS got parsed to the "Series" field and the "Subtitle" tag (if present) was parsed to the "Name" field, meaning the "Series" information was always present, to have the rule -

Display "Series". If "Name" not null, display "Series":"Name"

Does all this make sense?

Cheers,

Justin.

nwboater · « **Reply #41 on:** July 01, 2011, 08:13:00 am »

Quote from: imugli on July 01, 2011, 03:21:02 am

Does all this make sense?

Cheers,

Justin.

Not a bit of sense to me! That's why I'm so glad there are people like you that it does make sense to that can hopefully help to make TV work decently in MC.

Thanks for your efforts too!

Rod

imugli · « **Reply #42 on:** July 01, 2011, 09:00:41 am »

Quote from: nwboater on July 01, 2011, 08:13:00 am

Not a bit of sense to me! That's why I'm so glad there are people like you that it does make sense to that can hopefully help to make TV work decently in MC.

Thanks for your efforts too!

Rod

He He...

Just don't ask me to put it in a MC string

imugli · « **Reply #43 on:** July 01, 2011, 09:43:21 am »

Please allow me to illustrate my previous point...

Using Matt's previously suggested ~d=g smartlist search, and adding a "Series" field, let's use 7th Heaven as an example.

In Image 1, you'll see both the Series AND the Name fields are populated. (The circle highlights the wrong episode compared with the xml file, but you can see it further down the list)

Image 2 shows the corresponding entry in the XMLTV XML file.

Image 3 shows the MC guide entry for Animalia.

You'll note that Animalia is the name of the Series (proven by the fact that it corresponds to the "Title" tag in Image 4, however because there is no "Subtitle" tag in the xml file (again Image 4), the "Title" tag from the XML file populates the "Name" field in MC, leaving the "Series" field blank...

Yaobing · « **Reply #44 on:** July 01, 2011, 09:55:29 am »

Quote

You'll note that Animalia is the name of the Series (proven by the fact that it corresponds to the "Title" tag

We consider a show without a sub-title a single episode show, not a series. Are you saying it is wrong?

imugli · « **Reply #45 on:** July 01, 2011, 10:23:56 am »

Hi Yaobing,

Yes, that's what I'm saying.

As an example - Days of Our Lives.

Clearly qualifies as what I (anyone?) would call a "Series", yet not so by MC because there's no "Subtitle" tag in XML.

Another (Australian) example is Home & Away, a nightly serial here that definitely classifies as a series.

There are also examples of "Airline UK", some of which in my guide have a subtitle tag, others of which do not. It's the same series, but the EPG data is different in the XML file. Not the fault of JR, but I'm assuming this could possibly affect Season records etc.

Am suggesting that, for simplicity's sake, all "Title" tags get parsed to "Series" field, and Subtitle tags (if present) being parsed to "Name" Field.

glynor · « **Reply #46 on:** July 01, 2011, 01:57:01 pm »

But what about recordings of things that are actually not "shows". For example, I regularly record movies on HBO...

You wouldn't want the movie's name to end up in the [Series] tag, as my Theater Views don't even show this field for Movies.

Yaobing · « **Reply #47 on:** July 01, 2011, 06:55:40 pm »

Quote from: glynor on July 01, 2011, 01:57:01 pm

But what about recordings of things that are actually not "shows". For example, I regularly record movies on HBO...

You wouldn't want the movie's name to end up in the [Series] tag, as my Theater Views don't even show this field for Movies.

Precisely what I tried to say.

glynor · « **Reply #48 on:** July 01, 2011, 09:45:41 pm »

Maybe the answer is for items that only have a Title tag, and no subtitle, to fill both [Name] and [Series] with the info.

It doesn't hurt to have the [Series] tag filled for those movies (and it is easy enough to clear it out if you're obsessive compulsive). But it does hurt not to have it filled for those examples that imugli posted...

imugli · « **Reply #49 on:** July 01, 2011, 10:26:50 pm »

Glynor,

Can you please check your xml file for <Category lang="en">Movie</Category>

Maybe this is the way around it if people's providers include this (Mine does)

The <Category> tags get parsed as [keywords] so

if <CATEGORY> contain "Movie" then parse <Title> to [Name] else parse <Title> to [Series]

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: Where MC Stands with TV Recording Support (Read 9353 times)