Topic: Red October HQ - Loud music, virtually inaudible speech (Read 19011 times)

marko · « **on:** June 26, 2011, 02:37:25 pm »

As I've said before, I know nothing of the black art of filter chains, I just need things to work... Red October has been doing that for me since its inception, until last night....

We're watching a movie that, according to the OSD, has a DTS-es audio track with seven channels.

The movie looks absolutely brilliant, the sound is awful.

I only have stereo speakers hooked up to the HTPC, and that is specified in both the "Channels" area of DSP studio and in the Windows Audio Control Panel settings.

The problem we were experiencing was that the spoken words of the movie were too quiet, but if we turned up the volume in order to hear them, the musical soundtrack became absolutely deafening.

I was able to fix this by choosing "Red October with additional filters" and somehow, I got "FFDShow Audio Decoder" in there. I did not perform any configuring, just got it into the "additional filters" bit and pressed OK. This fixed my audio issues, but the video appeared to lack something now. It did not look nearly as well defined as it did previously. As far as I can tell, MadVR was no longer being used and I couldn't figure out how to get it to be used. I'm guessing that it wasn't available to me because I only have the one that MC installed for me, having never used a manually installed release of MadVR.

Anyhoo, I don't want to be messing about with filters and settings like that, plus, it doesn't go down well with the wife, know what I mean? so how do I fix this issue while at the same time, keep the settings at Red October HQ?

Cheers,
-marko

BryanC · « **Reply #1 on:** June 26, 2011, 05:48:48 pm »

I am having the same problem! I thought I was going crazy at first but there's definitely something up. If I bitstream a DTS track, the balance between the action scenes and dialog is just what you would expect. However, when I decode to PCM using RO-HQ, the action scenes literally shake my entire room yet I cannot hear spoken voices.

This isn't an issue with ac3 tracks...in fact when I have a movie with more than one stream I've been choosing the ac3 tracks over DTS/DD because it sounds so much better.

I'm glad someone else mentioned this and made a thread about it.

Edit: I should preface this with saying, no equalizers or DSP effects in the chain. Only "normalize audio" from the video settings.

glynor · « **Reply #2 on:** June 26, 2011, 06:21:45 pm »

Can you narrow it down to a particular type of audio stream?

I'm using ROHQ and am not seeing the same thing here on the server in the basement (with the new stereo), but I've been using mostly stereo MP3-compressed and Dolby Digital (AC3) tracks. I haven't used any movies or other DTS files, that I can remember, since I got everything set back up.

I'll be happy to test if we can figure out what types of files trigger the behavior.

BryanC · « **Reply #3 on:** June 26, 2011, 06:52:00 pm »

Over the course of the past few weeks, I have had this problem with DTS, DTS-HD, and Dolby TrueHD tracks. As of build 119, I know for sure I've had this problem with DTS tracks.

pauly139 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 26, 2011, 07:05:05 pm »

And I thought I had set something wrong! I noticed the same thing with the last 2 movies I watched, which have been using 119

lepa · « **Reply #5 on:** June 26, 2011, 07:09:37 pm »

Quote from: marko on June 26, 2011, 02:37:25 pm

I only have stereo speakers hooked up to the HTPC, and that is specified in both the "Channels" area of DSP studio and in the Windows Audio Control Panel settings.

Did you also set Mixing to JRSS v2.0? AFAIK RO uses LAV Audio for decoding audio and unlike FFDShow filter it doesn't have downmixing feature so I guess you need to use MC's JRSS to downmix the channels into two channels.

Matt · « **Reply #6 on:** June 26, 2011, 08:25:25 pm »

As said above, please confirm you've selected 2.0 channels and JRSS mixing.

jmone · « **Reply #7 on:** June 26, 2011, 09:02:39 pm »

I've had no issues with the following DSP Settings:
5.1 System: 5.1 channels and JRSS mixing
2.0 System: 2.0 channels and JRSS mixing

marko · « **Reply #8 on:** June 27, 2011, 12:27:31 am »

JRSS v2.0 mixing is most definitely selected, yes.

rjm · « **Reply #9 on:** June 27, 2011, 12:44:46 am »

If you guys would stick with XviD + mp3 rips life would be so much simpler for you. They always work, no matter what. And you only need 2 speakers.

jmone · « **Reply #10 on:** June 27, 2011, 03:56:39 am »

The only thing I can think of of they may be different is that the DTS-ES may be a 6.1 mix that may cause some odd downmix with JRSS? Just a guess.

glynor · « **Reply #11 on:** June 27, 2011, 09:29:29 am »

Also... Just to confirm, are all of the people seeing this issue running 2.0 speakers?

Matt · « **Reply #12 on:** June 27, 2011, 09:32:07 am »

Quote from: Bryanhoop on June 26, 2011, 05:48:48 pm

I am having the same problem! I thought I was going crazy at first but there's definitely something up. If I bitstream a DTS track, the balance between the action scenes and dialog is just what you would expect. However, when I decode to PCM using RO-HQ, the action scenes literally shake my entire room yet I cannot hear spoken voices.

Perhaps you have dynamic range compression enabled on your receiver? This may be on by default with some receivers.

BryanC · « **Reply #13 on:** June 27, 2011, 01:06:08 pm »

Quote from: Matt on June 27, 2011, 09:32:07 am

Perhaps you have dynamic range compression enabled on your receiver? This may be on by default with some receivers.

I'll check it tonight Matt. For clarification I'm experiencing this problem on a 5.1 system.

jmone · « **Reply #14 on:** June 27, 2011, 05:15:05 pm »

RO's filters (in this case LAV Audio) only decode the Audio, with all mixing done by JR's DSP engine. So unless there is a fundamental bug with LAVAudio (which I'm sure many would have found a long time ago), it has to be something with the MC Config when doing PCM decoding. Just to revise, you may need to check a couple of things:

1) Tools --> Options --> Videos: Try both "Same as Device used in Audio Playback" and other options. As a reminder you only get MC's DSP mixing if the option is set to "Same as Device used in Audio Playback"
2) When Playing the Video, Bring up MC's DSP and check it is processing the audio. Make sure the Output Format is checked and in there you can try the different options for Channels and Mixing (these changes are not dynamic, you will need to stop/play after a change).

BryanC · « **Reply #15 on:** June 27, 2011, 08:08:08 pm »

Matt: No dynamic compression or other effects are enabled.

I have same as audio output device selected and I get a spectrum display in Analyzer.

My output format settings are:

Resample: all sources to 24-bit/48khz,
Output channels 5.1,
Mixing: JRSS v2.0 surround sound
Subwoofer: JRSS subwoofer (60hz lowpass), Subclarity (checked), Source is correctly mastered for +10db cal (checked)

I do notice that when I am playing movies the tempo and pitch DSP is automatically selected, which I am assuming is the result of VideoClock and Normalize Volume.

BryanC · « **Reply #16 on:** July 03, 2011, 06:43:38 pm »

Any update on this? It's driving me nuts. I've been switching back and forth between PCM and bitstreaming, and the difference is astonishing.

My subwoofer literally shakes my whole room but I can't hear a word the actors are saying. It's almost like it is muffled or the audio treble is turned way down. Switched to bitstreaming and everything is crystal clear and "crisper" sounding.

BryanC · « **Reply #17 on:** July 03, 2011, 06:53:08 pm »

[Deleted]: I tried changing some settings and nothing helped. I have to bitstream or the problem remains.

It looks like the DSP settings default to 2.0 every time I play a video file. I don't know if this has anything to do with it.

This problem is occurring whether or not I use LAV Audio, LAV Audio (manual) or ffdshow audio.

SteveGoff · « **Reply #18 on:** July 03, 2011, 08:54:29 pm »

I have the same problem with my computer that has computer speakers, when using WASAPI output. When I changed to direct sound the problem went away. I think it wasn't downmixing to 2.0.

Matt · « **Reply #19 on:** July 05, 2011, 10:33:52 am »

Quote from: Bryanhoop on July 03, 2011, 06:53:08 pm

It looks like the DSP settings default to 2.0 every time I play a video file. I don't know if this has anything to do with it.

That means we're unable to open the soundcard for 5.1 output.

Does 5.1 output work for audio? What happens if you reduce buffering in Options > Audio > Output mode settings...?

BryanC · « **Reply #20 on:** July 06, 2011, 12:19:22 pm »

Quote from: Matt on July 05, 2011, 10:33:52 am

That means we're unable to open the soundcard for 5.1 output.

Does 5.1 output work for audio? What happens if you reduce buffering in Options > Audio > Output mode settings...?

Yes! That seemed to resolve the 2.0 issue. I had to go from 500ms to 250ms in WASAPI event-style. Unfortunately this has reintroduced some of the hiccuping effects that forced me to go to 500ms in the first place. Shucks. Can't win.

marko · « **Reply #21 on:** July 14, 2011, 12:56:29 am »

I don't want to hijack Crescent's thread, so I'll reply here. Over there, I said:

Quote from: marko on July 13, 2011, 12:57:15 pm

I still have this problem with ROHQ enabled, as first mentioned in "Red October HQ - Loud music, virtually inaudible speech".

My 'fix' has been to manually install a copy of MadVR, then set the filters manually to use madVR for video and FFDShow for audio. Feels wrong though, because the whole point of RO was that I should not have to do that, and indeed, like Crescent, until recently, everything was running sweetly...

As it is now, it works, and works well, but I'm back in that 'house of cards' zone where I don't completely understand what I did to get it to work correctly, so don't want to breath on it in case I break it again

-marko.

And Matt replied:

Quote from: Matt on July 13, 2011, 01:09:07 pm

Please describe your speaker setup and the settings you have in DSP Studio > Output Format.

Thanks.

I have a pair Creative Gigaworks T40, seriesII speakers connected to the green output jack at the back of the box, windows is set up as having 'full range' stereo speakers...

-marko

Blaine78 · « **Reply #22 on:** July 15, 2011, 08:06:20 pm »

thought i'd say, no problems here with dvd or blu ray, RO standard, (using dtsdecoderdll.dll in lav folder) JRSS 2.0 direct to a external 2 channel USB DAC.

Matt · « **Reply #23 on:** July 25, 2011, 09:21:37 am »

Marko, looking at your settings, everything looks fine.

Does 2 channel music sound correct? If you test with Room Correction, do the test tones for L and R do what you'd expect?

Is this specific to certain files? Could you provide a sample?

Thanks.

marko · « **Reply #24 on:** September 22, 2011, 02:59:56 am »

This issue was eventually solved elsewhere, and for anyone curious, there is a setting under "Options > Video" called "Normalise Volume". It is checked by default, but mine was unchecked. Re-checking this option has restored normal service for me.

Also, for the record, I have, I think, two mkv files here that still exhibit this problem, and to fix those, I need to turn off the DSP output format settings, then they play fine. It's only a couple out of several hundred, and I can't even recall their titles, so they're probably not 'keepers' anyway, so I'm still happy.

-marko

jmone · « **Reply #25 on:** September 23, 2011, 05:51:48 pm »

Nothing empirical here but the 6.1 track from Star Wars I (Blu) sounded very "odd" being downmixed to 5.1 with Normalise Vol on - sounded much better with Normalise Vol Off.

extalios · « **Reply #26 on:** May 25, 2012, 12:01:10 am »

Just thought I would add something to this even though it is a bit old. I started to watch an MKV and had the exact issue, loud ambient audio, inaudible or muffled speech. I am running through spdif optical cable to a 5.1 receiver with only front left/right, center and sub attached. Read through this and was going to try to implement some of the suggestions, but the first thing I decided to do was turn on "convert 24-bit audio to 32-bit package" (or something like that) under output mode settings in the audio options.

This completely fixed my issue with no other changes necessary.

As I said, just wanted to share and I hope this can help someone else out.

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Author Topic: Red October HQ - Loud music, virtually inaudible speech (Read 19011 times)