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[JIMV]

About the only thing I find lacking in MC is the ability to select files and then do random play through the universe of all files and not just one album at a time (and if this is a current feature..PLEASE tell me how to get it to work)

[rick.ca]

Right-click on any category value (in a Categories View) or any pane value (in a Panes View) and select More Play Options > Play (shuffled). At any category level in Theatre View, select Shuffle All from the play menu (on the main roller).

[JimH]

Go to Playing Now and try Play Doctor.

[forbigd]

I would like to request that MC have some sort of default play that kicks off when the playlist ends. I have a simple Play Doctor that plays all tunes picked at least x number of times. But I have to start Play Doctor manually. I want it to play a tune from the Play Doctor specs whenever there is nothing left on the list or the list is empty. Even (if configured that way), I would like MC to start playing Play Doctor when I start it. And then keep playing from that until someone picks something. Then it plays that and then goes back to the list set up in Play Doctor. Is that possible?

Don

[rick.ca]

Even (if configured that way), I would like MC to start playing Play Doctor when I start it. And then keep playing from that until someone picks something. Then it plays that and then goes back to the list set up in Play Doctor. Is that possible?

Yes. Start MC with the shortcut MC17.exe /Append TREEPATH=Playlists\Play Doctor\Current Playchart. If you prefer, substitute any saved playchart for Current Playchart. (I'm not sure if the Rules for files that can be included are saved with the playchart or apply to all playcharts. If you always want it restricted based on [Number Plays], it doesn't matter.) If 100 tracks is not enough, just select the playchart in the tree and Add to Playing Now as many times as necessary. (The command could also be assigned to a keyboard shortcut.) Any manual selections would then be played using Add to Playing Now (play now). That can be set as the default double-click behaviour, making it easy to play a track, album, artist or whatever. The playchart will always resume when that selection has finished playing.

[forbigd]

Yes. Start MC with the shortcut MC17.exe /Append TREEPATH=Playlists\Play Doctor\Current Playchart.

I made a shortcut to MC, Which now is called Media Center.exe, right? So my shortcut looks like this
"C:\Program Files (x86)\J River\Media Center 17\Media Center 17.exe" /Append TREEPATH=Playlists\Play Doctor\Current Playchart

This shortcut does nothing different. I moved the quotes to the end and that makes the whole link invalid.

I thought the word TREEPATH meant for me to insert my path to the playlists, but I can't find them. I have used several tools to scour the whole hard drive for any reference to Playlists or Playcharts, and they can't find anything. There is a playlistx.jmd file, but that isn't what I am looking for, right?

The wiki says "File|Library". http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Preferences_(where_they_are_stored)

I found the Library in the hidden appdata folder, but no Playcharts or anything to point to.

Thanks!

Don

[JohnT]

You can just cut and paste the bold text above and it should work. No quotes needed.

[forbigd]

Thanks!  I overthought it as usual. I wondered why the real shortcut said Media Center. Oh well.
It works as advertised. When I start MC it plays one of the Playchart titles.

But it isn't exactly right. Let me try to explain.
This machine is used in my garage for entertainment while we play pool, etc.
When we first start it is nice that it starts to play right away. There are 200 songs there and it picks one, somewhere in the middle of the playlist. Fine so far, but then someone adds a tune, it goes right after what's playing now and that is fine. The next guy picks 4 from one artist and 5 from another. He doesn't want them to play all by one artist and then the other so he selects Add and Shuffle Remaining, oops, now his tunes are lost in the big pile.

I guess the functionality I am looking for is a playlist with the song playing now as the top of the list and the ones that have played are removed from the list. The MC plays one song after the other from the Playchart, but only shows the one song playing, and maybe what's coming up next. When someone adds a tune, it replaces the playchart next with the users next. He can add as many as he wants and then shuffle the list if he wants and then only his tunes play (or if others pick, they are shuffled in the the mix too). No Playchart tunes play or appear until all the users tunes have played, then MC goes back to the playchart and continues playing it until a user picks another tune.
This is the way Audiosoft's Ejukebox works and we really like that. The "playchart" for Ej is a simple "played at least x times" but it works great.

Anyway to approximate that? I love MC and will not move, but the continuous playlist is baffling a little. Why do we need to see what has played? It just makes it very hard for the uninitiated to figure out where their song is in the list (even if it is highlighted when playing ) I think the playlist should have what is playing on the top, and then what is coming up below.
Crazy huh? Please, no offense meant with this fine product, I am just trying to learn it, and why it is designed this way.

Thanks

Don

[rick.ca]

Why do we need to see what has played?

If you can accept the possibility some users want to see what has played, the question becomes: Why should bother anyone to see them there? It is, after all, an ordered list of files—on which the currently playing file is clearly highlighted. More importantly, retaining the played files is essential to the very concept of a playing now playlist. As you know, it supports adding more files in a variety of ways, as well as removing files and rearranging the list. The result can be then be saved as a new playlist. That wouldn't be possible if played items were automatically removed.

The next guy picks 4 from one artist and 5 from another.

In most cases, choosing a mixed set of files like that—whether or not there's going to be a need to shuffle or rearrange them—is going to be easier using a playlist. Select Build Playlist from the Action Window, then drag & drop selections to the playlist. For even more control, open a "Play Next" playlist in a split window, and drag selections directly to the playlist. When done, add the list to Playing Now and clear the list.

[forbigd]

If you can accept the possibility some users want to see what has played

I knew it sounded like I was complaining. Sorry, not my intention. You guys are at version 17!. Some crazy newbie isn't going to make any big changes I can accept anything, if you all decided that a scrolling playlist is better, it probably is. It is mostly a training issue. I have a dozen folks who have used my old juke box for ten years. I am just trying to make the transition smoother. One of my biggest issues is pane management. I use two panes to mimic the old jukebox. One pane is the pick list, one is the Now Playing list. Even if I lock the now playing pane, these guys figure out how to click something to lose the whole setup, or wipe the whole playlist. (I love being able to find the playlist saved in Recent Playlists so I can recover it when they wipe it out.) I guess it is my problem, I have figured out how most of MC works and really like it, the pool players are just along for the ride and not being computer savvy they are struggling. I will continue training them. Everyone has been so helpful here I thought I would ask some questions. I thought there must be some "filter", or "expression" that would make the songs played already to leave the "Visible" list. I love it keeping track of all songs played, I was just hoping to hide them from the pool players. Not remove them from the list. Someone already answered they didn't think it was possible. I was just trying again, sorry.

is going to be easier using a playlist.

A good suggestion. A now playing, and an about to be played. I hadn't thought of that. One functionality I am looking for is the ability to play by itself. In the scenario I mentioned, lets say everyone is playing pool and the playlist empties. MC just stops. We play pool in silence until someone walks over and selects something. I was trying to fix that. When done playing from the playing now, I was asking to have it play from a list previously selected by me, and when someone adds songs, play those (and nothing from my list) until done, than back to my list. I will try myself to make it work, If I can I will certainly post back to say how I made it happen.

Thanks for your support!

Don

[MrC]

Being able to specify a playlist, or a Playchart, as a fallback could be useful here too.

I typically load a bunch of tracks for my wife while she works, based on her needs at the time.  Sometimes she works late into the night, and then sits there working in silence when the tracks have all played out.

It would be great to be able to have the ability to add a special "track", which is a reference to a playlist/smartlist/playchart.  In the case desired here, this reference would float to and remain as the end track, providing default playback at Playing Now end.

This way, I could cue up the tracks, add the Default Playback list reference, and go to bed knowing music will play continuously, and wifey is happy.

[rick.ca]

When done playing from the playing now, I was asking to have it play from a list previously selected by me, and when someone adds songs, play those (and nothing from my list) until done, than back to my list.

I understand you might see it as a workaround, but this is the issue I addressed in my first post. I suggested using the Current Playchart only because you said you wanted to use Play Doctor. As I mentioned, you can substitute any playlist you might prefer. The only requirement is that it play as long than you're ever likely to need it to.

I typically load a bunch of tracks for my wife while she works, based on her needs at the time.  Sometimes she works late into the night, and then sits there working in silence when the tracks have all played out.

This situation is no different, although it seems to be completely in your control (i.e., your wife is a passive listener). Think of some long playlist you've created for the purpose (or Current Playchart) as the "special track." Add your "bunch of tracks" selection, then that additional playlist. If your wife does want to add anything, she would do so using Add (play now) or (play next).

[MrC]

If your wife does want to add anything, she would do so using Add (play now) or (play next).

Unfortunately, she doesn't have access to the MC machine (she could use it, but won't and has no desire to - that's what hubbies are for).  Her player is an SB Touch, where I setup the tracks on my system and stream them via DLNA.  For her to add tracks means she wipes out the playlist, taking direct control of the SB.

I could always create 8 hour playlists for her and queue them up, but that's a lot more work than necessary, most of the time.  To be able to append an omnipresent last track Playchart reference would ensure constant music, always.

[rick.ca]

To be able to append an omnipresent last track Playchart reference would ensure constant music, always.

That's what my suggestion does.

[JimH]

I could always create 8 hour playlists for her and queue them up, but that's a lot more work than necessary, most of the time.

I've been using Play Doctor lately to generate lists, then save them as playlists.  Then I remove the ones I don't like.  It's pretty easy.

[mashenden]

Thanks!  I overthought it as usual. I wondered why the real shortcut said Media Center. Oh well.
It works as advertised. When I start MC it plays one of the Playchart titles.

But it isn't exactly right. Let me try to explain.

This machine is used in my garage for entertainment while we play pool, etc.
When we first start it is nice that it starts to play right away. There are 200 songs there and it picks one, somewhere in the middle of the playlist. Fine so far, but then someone adds a tune, it goes right after what's playing now and that is fine. The next guy picks 4 from one artist and 5 from another. He doesn't want them to play all by one artist and then the other so he selects Add and Shuffle Remaining, oops, now his tunes are lost in the big pile.

I guess the functionality I am looking for is a playlist with the song playing now as the top of the list and the ones that have played are removed from the list. The MC plays one song after the other from the Playchart, but only shows the one song playing, and maybe what's coming up next. When someone adds a tune, it replaces the playchart next with the users next. He can add as many as he wants and then shuffle the list if he wants and then only his tunes play (or if others pick, they are shuffled in the the mix too). No Playchart tunes play or appear until all the users tunes have played, then MC goes back to the playchart and continues playing it until a user picks another tune.

Don, aka forbigd, what you describe is almost exactly, if not exactly, what I am after as well; an automatically starting, random list that rolls the played songs off the top while also allowing non familiar or drunk users to easily add songs, but once the added songs run out, MC would continue to randomly keep 10 (or some manageable amount) songs on the list forever.

Very similar to Play Dr but the problems with Play Dr are 1) once a user adds a song it stops adding songs to the bottom (thus far no logical explanation has been provided on why it stops adding) and 2) if a Shuffle Remaining is done, the manually added songs do get swallowed up (which is why only 10, or some manageable number, automatically added songs at a time makes sense).

I too would really like to find a way to get MC working in this manner, particualrly since MC is very impressive in so many other ways, but I worry that the "you should like it this way" answers will turn me off this almost perfect product.

This is the way Audiosoft's Ejukebox works and we really like that. The "playchart" for Ej is a simple "played at least x times" but it works great.

AutoDJ too, but I too do not want to move away from MC.

Why do we need to see what has played? It just makes it very hard for the uninitiated to figure out where their song is in the list (even if it is highlighted when playing ) I think the playlist should have what is playing on the top, and then what is coming up below.
Crazy huh?

No, not crazy. I could not agree more (or perhaps I too am crazy).

[forbigd]

I have searched and searched, I cannot figure out how to make the songs that have played already disappear, or hide from view on the Now Playing list.
I know I have been told that is how MC works and you can save playlists etc. But my pool room machine never is used to save playlists. It really is a "Jukebox" that users walk up to to either see what is playing or to pick something else. I resort to manually highlighting the songs above the one playing on Now Playing and remove them so the others are comfortable using it.
They want to glance at the "Playlist" and see at the top what is playing now, and what is next.
Is there a script or expression or something I can run to "hide" ones that have already played? I do like to see what has played, but for this group, I need to clean it up. They are already afraid of it, I need to get them to buy in or it will fail for my Poolroom. And I don't want it to fail. I love MC. If it can't happen automatically, is there a way to make a button to push to "delete all songs that have been played in the last X hours" from Now Playing?

Sorry to bring it up again, I have searched lots and lots of posts and I see this request has come up several times.
Any experts out there who can help me?

Thanks!

Don (forbigd)

[wig]

I have searched and searched, I cannot figure out how to make the songs that have played already disappear, or hide from view on the Now Playing list.
I know I have been told that is how MC works and you can save playlists etc. But my pool room machine never is used to save playlists. It really is a "Jukebox" that users walk up to to either see what is playing or to pick something else.

As much as I love JRiver for organizing and personal listening, the group experience has never been well supported. Running Media Center as a jukebox is always problematic, because there is no way to protect or restrict the queue. Also, the learning curve on the interface is too high even if folks were to behave themselves and obey the rules (which they never do  ).

I'd be thrilled to see a Kiosk Mode added JRiver in a future version. It could be billed as the best jukebox software available (I have no doubt it would be). It could even be promoted for commercial applications with additional of a coin acceptor.

[forbigd]

Agreed, I absolutely love MC and have everything organized and set up with multiple views etc.

But trying to make it simple for the family or the pool room buddies is difficult.
Obey the rules... you said it! I made two panes for them so the right one would be the Playing now. I would set it up perfectly, even locking it down, in moments someone had both panes showing the pick list and no Now Playing at all. I tried myself to duplicate it, and no, the lock keeps now playing in the right pane, but yet somehow the unwashed manage to mangle the panes and then open the tree view and try to find their files there. Yet they all agree it is very slick how you can find anything.
We use it for Music Videos in the pool room, and in an attempt to have a lot, I have quite a few clunkers in there. Now when we skip a clunker, I can go back later and find it [Skipped] and move it out of the current set.
I now have the playlist opened in the action window and just the one panes view for them to pick from, the tree locked down, etc.

I have to keep the "double click" action set to "open tag window" rather than any "add to playlist" action, as they somehow manage to add ALL the songs in the list in front of them when they just want the one. That destroys the playlist so I can't allow that to happen. They have to rightclick and add from there, or drag.
Maybe after time they will get used to it. I have hours and hours of playing under my belt and really enjoy trying to get the view I want.
(I shunned theater view because it was impossible to figure out, but now I have it under control. Mostly )

Thanks for the support.

Don
 

[rick.ca]

But trying to make it simple for the family or the pool room buddies is difficult.

And making it so by changing the features and behaviours experienced users understand, appreciate an rely upon is not the answer. Maybe those who have the need could specify a new jukebox/kiosk mode that would be suitable for the unwashed. If you could reach a consensus on exactly how such a thing should work, there would be a chance of it being implemented some day.

It seems to me the simplest implementation would be a Theatre View mode in which commands were restricted to those necessary for adding items to Playing Now in various ways (perhaps only those that add to the list and not replace it), and for modifying the Playing Now List. The necessary commands could all be placed on the second roller and thereby easier to understand. The basic instructions for new users would then be, "Use the arrow keys to find what you want, then press enter and select a command from the menu. Select Playing Now to see what's currently playing, and the Playing Now List to view or modify the list."

[forbigd]

And making it so by changing the features and behaviours experienced users understand, appreciate an rely upon is not the answer.

Agreed, I love the way it works for me, I just need to make it better for others. Why would adding an option to remove items from now playing change anything else? Experienced users would not have to use that option. So for them nothing would change. Like some folks never use theater view, but it being there doesn't hurt those who don't want it.
You ask for how I would like it to work? I hate pointing out other products, but EJukebox has the look I am going for. http://audiosoft.net/ Simple pick list and a playlist that removes what was just played. I do understand this isn't JRiver's Jukebox, you call it Media Center for a reason. I have switched from eJukebox and won't go back, but it sure would be nice to have a simpler interface for my friends.

Thanks for listening

[Guinness77]

I also think a jukebox mode would be really nice.   I still have to use Freebox E-Touch for parties, etc...  I typically have that running most of the time because I do not trust anyone else to have more access than that

Hopefully we can hear if this has a possibility of being added.

[wig]

If you could reach a consensus on exactly how such a thing should work, there would be a chance of it being implemented some day.

Consensus is a strong word for this board. 

I think a few key main elements could be agreed upon.

• Touchscreen Interface - the keyboard and mouse are not be needed at all; use an onscreen keyboard for searches
• Locked Interface - users are be unable to exit the Kiosk Mode or tab to other programs without the unlock code
• Protected Playlist - restrict the ability to move or delete tracks from the playlist
• Limit Library - only show selected library items (already easy in JRiver with Views)
• Autoplay - an option to automatically add X items to the playlist after Y amount of inactivity

This is a mode for large groups of people with access to alcohol. The overriding theme when designing a kiosk mode - keep it simple and foolproof! The less on the screen, the better. Ask users to confirm before adding a track. Return the screen to the main page when the system is idle.

I have a program that does all of this already, and does it very well (I won't mention it by name). But it's not JRiver, which means I have to manage a second library. I also can't play from the Server on a client machine, or use Zones, or utilize DSP studio or other playback options.

I hope it happens someday. I'll just keep pleading my case until then 

[rick.ca]

Consensus is a strong word for this board.

Duh. But I assume you get my point. JRiver isn't going to waste time on a feature guaranteed to disappoint as many users as it pleases. A 2/3 consensus might be a reasonable target. I also believe a collective lack of willingness to discuss how a potential feature should work is usually a good indication it's not a worthy candidate for development resources.

Touchscreen Interface - the keyboard and mouse are not be needed at all

It should certainly be usable with a touchscreen (I assume Theatre View already is). Working only with a touchscreen isn't reasonable—I assume that's not what you mean.

Protected Playlist - restrict the ability to move or delete tracks from the playlist

I imagine this sort of thing needs to be optional. Some would like users to be able to participate in the management of the list; others will want it locked-down.

Limit Library - only show selected library items

If it's to be based on Theatre View, it would be nice to be able to hide existing views (i.e., using a "hide in kiosk mode" setting for each view in the existing configuration). That would allow some inappropriate views to be hidden, or only views specially designed for kiosk mode (e.g., tuned for the inebriated) to be displayed.

[mashenden]

If you could reach a consensus on exactly how such a thing should work, there would be a chance of it being implemented some day.

Some common points seem to be emerging:

• Rolling Refresh - As a song rolls off the top, another song would be automatically added to the bottom based on the Smartlist rules. Possibly an option that makes any Smartlist automatically maintain Y number of unplayed songs and X number of played songs. Users could set X to something like 0 or 5 so it is easy to see the song that is playing at or near the top. Y could be set based on personal preference. Advantage of a short list being that a Shuffle Remaining allows songs that get manually added to be shuffled but not lost in the mix.
  
  
• Locked "Jukebox" Views - something where the owner can lock the views on the interface so that they best represent what is needed by unfamiliar users, while also restricting them from making permanent changes to the library. I would lock the interface to have a Playing Now view, another view to select songs from the library, and a 3rd for the Visualizer. Users would add to the Playing Now list by double clicking something in the library view.
  
  
• When in Jukebox mode, I'd also like to see a short list of right click commands to Play/Pause, Add Song to Bottom, Add Song to Play Next, Shuffle Remaining and Restart Visualizer.
  
  

[Guinness77]

I think that the volume commands, play now, play next, add album etc.. should be customizable.  That way you can tailor the screen depending on what you need.  You not want people changing volume, skipping songs etc.. 

Just going on experience, to add the song to the queue there should be options.  If you click on the track, another screen pops up with "add to queue", play now, play next (these should be able to be customized).  It might be nice to have the option of double clicking to add to queue also.  I have had programs where you double click, and that has caused problems.   Sometimes people couldn't figure it out, or kept on adding songs by mistake.  Having the option of a screen that pops up gives the user confirmation.

Also, an option to have the queue shuffled each play or stay in same order as added. 

When we have some of our larger parties, and there are 20 or 30 people adding songs to the queue, things can get out of hand quick if things are not locked down (after a few drinks people have no problem skipping songs, adding, deleting things etc..)

[mashenden]

I think that the volume commands, play now, play next, add album etc.. should be customizable.  That way you can tailor the screen depending on what you need.  You not want people changing volume, skipping songs etc.. 

Just going on experience, to add the song to the queue there should be options.  If you click on the track, another screen pops up with "add to queue", play now, play next (these should be able to be customized).  It might be nice to have the option of double clicking to add to queue also.  I have had programs where you double click, and that has caused problems.   Sometimes people couldn't figure it out, or kept on adding songs by mistake.  Having the option of a screen that pops up gives the user confirmation.

Also, an option to have the queue shuffled each play or stay in same order as added. 

When we have some of our larger parties, and there are 20 or 30 people adding songs to the queue, things can get out of hand quick if things are not locked down (after a few drinks people have no problem skipping songs, adding, deleting things etc..)

Agreed - Sometimes I have guests where a higher level of control on adding, skipping, vol control, and shuffling is needed, whereas often I would like to give guests that option. Making this configurable where the functions that are defined appear on a pop-up seems like a great idea. That would make it much less likely for the "unwashed" (as someone noted previously ) to get off the beaten path.

Hey fine folks at JRiver, is adding these features a dream or is a future rev with them a distinct possibility?

[wig]

Making this configurable where the functions that are defined appear on a pop-up seems like a great idea. That would make it much less likely for the "unwashed" (as someone noted previously ) to get off the beaten path.

A pop-up (similar to the More Play Options screen in Theater View) would be a good way to implement it, as it could also double as a confirmation screen with some added text (You are adding Song X by Artist Y, etc).

[mashenden]

So if we assume a Jukebox option is an upcoming feature (w pop-up for commands, a rolling refresh and layout lock down), would the following commands be the list of what are needed on the Guest interface pop-up (again with the option for the Owner to exclude any commands that are not wanted on the pop-up)?

• Vol Up, Vol Dn, Mute
• Play, Play (shuffled), Pause, Skip (>>|)
• Add (bottom), Add (play next), Add (play now), Add (shuffle), Add (shuffled all), Add (shuffled remaining)
• Remove (selected), Remove (next on list)
• Set Rating on song playing (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
• Toggle Visualizer (Ctrl 3)
• Did I miss anything critical?

[wig]

So if we assume a Jukebox option is an upcoming feature

I wouldn't make any assumptions about this being an upcoming feature; we're just spitballing ideas and comparing wish lists.

JRiver has their own priorities, but they've been open to user feedback about the direction of the software in the past. 

[mashenden]

I wouldn't make any assumptions about this being an upcoming feature; we're just spitballing ideas and comparing wish lists.

JRiver has their own priorities, but they've been open to user feedback about the direction of the software in the past. 

I understand. By "assume" I did not mean to infer this was in the bag...only to move things forward in hopes the input from several will be embraced by the development team.

As a new user (but far from a green user of such apps), I remain very impressed by all of the options and features within MC, with two observations - 1) with so many options, it seems that the option to press one button and have it take off was lost and 2) no way to shield casual users from all of the options, leaving them either overwhelmed or resorting to clicking where they should not.

Personally I am really glad all of these features and options are there, but I don't want all casual users to have access to them since then I have to take time out to explain them, or fix the damage caused when they do not ask.

[Guinness77]

Hopefully we could hear from JRiver if they may be inclined to add this feature.