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[packux]

In my current set-up, I have defined two different zones, one called "movies" with DSP/playback settings specific to movies and one called "music" with specific set-up for listening to music.

Is it possible to pre-defined in JRiver which zone should be used depending on the file-type?

Thanks

[Matt]

Not currently, but it's been requested quite a bit.

Another solution would be DSP Studio profiles, which could be set per media type or even per file.

Someday I think we'll get one of these two, but I don't know when.

[Fabricio]

Not currently, but it's been requested quite a bit.

Another solution would be DSP Studio profiles, which could be set per media type or even per file.

Someday I think we'll get one of these two, but I don't know when.

I wait with faith ...

[packux]

Thanks for the reply Matt.

On my side, zone specific selection would be more preferable, since I am using also different devices for playback (HDMI for video/audio in movies - Sonar ST for playback of music).

An easy way (or so it seems) would be to do the selection using the medium type (i.e. "Movie", "Music", "PodCast" etc.).

+1 for me on this feature.

[Mr ChriZ]

Not currently, but it's been requested quite a bit.

Another solution would be DSP Studio profiles, which could be set per media type or even per file.

I would like to see this. 

[nwboater]

Another solution would be DSP Studio profiles, which could be set per media type or even per file.

Per media type would be quite helpful.

Thanks,
Rod

[glynor]

Not currently, but it's been requested quite a bit.

Another solution would be DSP Studio profiles, which could be set per media type or even per file.

If you eventually decide to implement this, I think it would make more sense to implement it using Zones rather than the DSP directly.  Zones encompass all of the DSP settings, so you could still use it to automatically switch DSP settings depending on the file being played, but doing it "higher level" as a zone-level feature would give us this flexibility with other settings as well, and could be used to unify some existing features.

For example, right now we have the ability to add conditions to Custom Video playback settings.  If, instead, you added the conditions to the Zone configuration, then you wouldn't need this separate, redundant feature.

This would be more logical and consistent from a user experience perspective, and would be more flexible for future additions or changes.

[nwboater]

If you eventually decide to implement this, I think it would make more sense to implement it using Zones rather than the DSP directly........

This would be more logical and consistent from a user experience perspective, and would be more flexible for future additions or changes.

But it would force those of us not using zones to use them to have the new feature.

Rod

[packux]

If you eventually decide to implement this, I think it would make more sense to implement it using Zones rather than the DSP directly.  Zones encompass all of the DSP settings, so you could still use it to automatically switch DSP settings depending on the file being played, but doing it "higher level" as a zone-level feature would give us this flexibility with other settings as well, and could be used to unify some existing features.

For example, right now we have the ability to add conditions to Custom Video playback settings.  If, instead, you added the conditions to the Zone configuration, then you wouldn't need this separate, redundant feature.

This would be more logical and consistent from a user experience perspective, and would be more flexible for future additions or changes.

I couldn't put it in a better way than that.

On the other hand though, I think that the main point of discussion here is the fact that in order to support different playback devices, one has to use as entry point the zones. Even though it seems logical from one perspective, if I consider my use case and where JRiver is heading (i.e. an all-in approach to multimedia reproduction using a PC) it doesn't make a lot of sense using a different zone for playing back audio content than the one used for playing back video content, since both contents are played back in the same geographical place (i.e. my living room).

If then, DSP Studio profiles includes also the different play-back devices I can use for  playing back content (i.e. use my HDMI pass-through for home cinema and my Xonar ST for audio), I think the feature hits the sweet spot. And from that perspective, the "Zones" are no less than DSP profiles, with perhaps additional functionalities.

I hope I make sense... :-)

[glynor]

But it would force those of us not using zones to use them to have the new feature.

You say that as though it is some huge hardship to have to use zones.  That's what Zones are... They are "sets of settings" (profiles) that you can turn on and off at will.  I don't see how this is a problem.

[glynor]

And from that perspective, the "Zones" are no less than DSP profiles, with perhaps additional functionalities.

They are, and they work that way currently (you just can't automatically apply them depending on conditions, you have to manually switch).  And, they have a bunch of other pieces of the settings that they can "cover" too, including all of the features under Options -> Video, for example.

Please Note:  If all you want to do is route Audio playback through the normal MC audio path, but route Video playback down to a separate audio device, then you can accomplish this already without configuring any zones.  You do lose the ability to use the DSP for your videos' audio, but if you are using an external home theater receiver, then this may not matter at all to you.

[nwboater]

You say that as though it is some huge hardship to have to use zones.  That's what Zones are... They are "sets of settings" (profiles) that you can turn on and off at will.  I don't see how this is a problem.

Okay Glynor, I should know better than to try to argue the use of MC with one who has such a vast understanding of and experience with the program - but I will anyway. (BTW no implied sarcasm there - I have the utmost of respect for you!)

Using Zones would not be a 'Huge hardship'. There is no question that Zones would not work for this. Here's my concern: For many new people MC can be a very intimidating program to learn. With it's tremendous power and lack of documentation it takes a lot of will power for some to stick with the learning curve. So when features are added, especially those that many may want to use it would be beneficial to keep things as simple and intuitive as possible.

Here's my problems with using Zones for this function.

1. Zones sounds like having playback in different parts of the house.

2. How many would think of using Zones for this function? (Again I don't feel it's intuitive.)

3. Most would look in Tools/Options for the settings. Zones is under 'Player'.

4. After Adding a new Zone what needs to be done? Again it doesn't seem intuitive.


No question that Zones can be made to do what we want. My big concern is the lack of intuitive implementation.

Rod

[packux]

They are, and they work that way currently (you just can't automatically apply them depending on conditions, you have to manually switch).  And, they have a bunch of other pieces of the settings that they can "cover" too, including all of the features under Options -> Video, for example.

Indeed, that's my understanding as well and that is exactly how I use them. My only (small) gripe is, the only entry point for playback with Zones can be through MC itself and not via the native integration with the OS. In addition, given the fact that I am not the only person using my PC (or play-back music/video using MC), the feedback I got from the other user (that being my wife :-) ), is that she doesn't understand why such a simple thing as playing back a FLAC should require more than one click...And I can see her point...

Please Note:  If all you want to do is route Audio playback through the normal MC audio path, but route Video playback down to a separate audio device, then you can accomplish this already without configuring any zones.  You do lose the ability to use the DSP for your videos' audio, but if you are using an external home theater receiver, then this may not matter at all to you.

That much I've understood myself - OTOH I want to start playing with some features offered in MC, such as convolution or parametric equalizer and compare the results with my AVR.

[packux]

Okay Glynor, I should know better than to try to argue the use of MC with one who has such a vast understanding of and experience with the program - but I will anyway. (BTW no implied sarcasm there - I have the utmost of respect for you!)

Using Zones would not be a 'Huge hardship'. There is no question that Zones would not work for this. Here's my concern: For many new people MC can be a very intimidating program to learn. With it's tremendous power and lack of documentation it takes a lot of will power for some to stick with the learning curve. So when features are added, especially those that many may want to use it would be beneficial to keep things as simple and intuitive as possible.

Here's my problems with using Zones for this function.

1. Zones sounds like having playback in different parts of the house.

2. How many would think of using Zones for this function? (Again I don't feel it's intuitive.)

3. Most would look in Tools/Options for the settings. Zones is under 'Player'.

4. After Adding a new Zone what needs to be done? Again it doesn't seem intuitive.


No question that Zones can be made to do what we want. My big concern is the lack of intuitive implementation.

Rod

My point exactly.

[Matt]

I need help understanding the real-world use cases for wanting really different DSP settings for music than for video.

I consider the idea pretty advanced (I'm an audio wing-nut and I don't want it), so it seems reasonable that it's a little advanced to use.

From my perspective, the unification of audio for music and video playback is one of the neatest features of Media Center.  I calibrate everything once and then I get the same great sound regardless of the source (unless I'm playing a game, which is why we need to offer our audio engine as a virtual soundcard!).

Thanks for any clarification.

[nwboater]

I need help understanding the real-world use cases for wanting really different DSP settings for music than for video.

I consider the idea pretty advanced (I'm an audio wing-nut and I don't want it), so it seems reasonable that it's a little advanced to use.

From my perspective, the unification of audio for music and video playback is one of the neatest features of Media Center.  I calibrate everything once and then I get the same great sound regardless of the source (unless I'm playing a game, which is why we need to offer our audio engine as a virtual soundcard!).

Thanks for any clarification.

Just a couple of quick ones off the top of my head:

1. Many of us want more bass for movies than for music.

2. Many want (and should have) a center for movies. But the center, although it should be timbre matched to the mains often is not. Therefore for music they only want to use the higher quality mains.

Rod

[AoXoMoXoA]

Matt, I can think of an example or two.

I find that at times the dialogs in a video are less intelligible if played in the Music zone. This is because MC's DSP Effects that I use for music cause the dialog to have an echo. It sounds great with music but not for videos.

I also like to send video's sound to the TV's sound system rather than my music system.

I'll be back with more . . .    

[Matt]

2. Many want (and should have) a center for movies. But the center, although it should be timbre matched to the mains often is not. Therefore for music they only want to use the higher quality mains.

Doesn't the existing option "For stereo sources, only mix to 2.1" handle this nicely?

[nwboater]

Doesn't the existing option "For stereo sources, only mix to 2.1" handle this nicely?

What does that do for movies that are in stereo?

Rod

[Matt]

What does that do for movies that are in stereo?

I assume it mixes to 2.1, since that's the name of the option.  Maybe the option should be "For stereo music, only mix to 2.1"? 

I'm not a 2.0 / 2.1 purist (I paid for those extra speakers!) unless I'm under headphones.  Feel free to start a thread if you feel strongly.

[justsomeguy]

(unless I'm playing a game, which is why we need to offer our audio engine as a virtual soundcard!).

Maybe off topic but....

+10000000000 for that

[jgreen]

Matt, didn't we all talk about this some weeks ago, and everybody nodded their heads afterwards like, "okay, it's all agreed"?  And weren't you the one who said, "gosh, I'd like to goose the pedestal bass of my movies till the house shakes off it's foundation"?  And now today we're circling back and claiming we'd like a "unified" (rhymnes with "take out more option buttons") audio structure?

Apart from laziness, why would anyone want the same audio settings for their music as their dinosaurs?  Growl!  Stomp!  Stomp!

I love the ability to configure a Playing Now for music and a different one for movies.  My music is all stereo and comes out flat (unaltered).  My movies are faux-surround and goosed for separation.  Keep them separate and (un)equal!

[Matt]

Matt, didn't we all talk about this some weeks ago, and everybody nodded their heads afterwards like, "okay, it's all agreed"?  And weren't you the one who said, "gosh, I'd like to goose the pedestal bass of my movies till the house shakes off it's foundation"?  And now today we're circling back and claiming we'd like a "unified" (rhymnes with "take out more option buttons") audio structure?

First, you're not allowed to use my own arguments against me.  I know you can use that English degree to convince me of anything!

My request was actually for a separate volume slider for my subwoofer.  Preferably it should go to 11.

Two zones could solve that problem, but it's more complexity than I really want to deal with.  I don't want to set speaker distances, ASIO buffer sizes, projector input lag, or several other zone specific settings just for this.  Also, I want to adjust it while I'm playing.  Zones are not designed for that since what I'm playing isn't even playing in the other zones.

So I guess I'm still searching for the right balance between power and simplicity.

[justsomeguy]

My request was actually for a separate volume slider for my subwoofer.  Preferably it should go to 11.

Two zones could solve that problem, but it's more complexity than I really want to deal with.  I don't want to set speaker distances, ASIO buffer sizes, projector input lag, or several other zone specific settings just for this.  Also, I want to adjust it while I'm playing.  Zones are not designed for that since what I'm playing isn't even playing in the other zones.

Maybe have an option that can copy all settings from one zone to another, then just change that one setting you want in that new zone.

[nwboater]

First, you're not allowed to use my own arguments against me. ....

My request was actually for a separate volume slider for my subwoofer.  Preferably it should go to 11.

Two zones could solve that problem, but it's more complexity than I really want to deal with.  I don't want to set speaker distances, ASIO buffer sizes, projector input lag, or several other zone specific settings just for this.  Also, I want to adjust it while I'm playing.  Zones are not designed for that since what I'm playing isn't even playing in the other zones.

But I guess it's okay for you to use your own arguments against you! In any case I agree with the latter 'You'.

Rod

[pcstockton]

Please Note:  If all you want to do is route Audio playback through the normal MC audio path, but route Video playback down to a separate audio device, then you can accomplish this already without configuring any zones.  You do lose the ability to use the DSP for your videos' audio, but if you are using an external home theater receiver, then this may not matter at all to you.

YES!!! I was thinking exactly this as I was reading through this thread.  You suggested (i think) i do this in a different thread.  Worked like a charm.

[packux]

I need help understanding the real-world use cases for wanting really different DSP settings for music than for video.

I consider the idea pretty advanced (I'm an audio wing-nut and I don't want it), so it seems reasonable that it's a little advanced to use.

From my perspective, the unification of audio for music and video playback is one of the neatest features of Media Center.  I calibrate everything once and then I get the same great sound regardless of the source (unless I'm playing a game, which is why we need to offer our audio engine as a virtual soundcard!).

Thanks for any clarification.

Since I started this thread, here is my particular situation:

AVR connected to my PC via HDMI. Audio and video signals are passed through that connection (I am not using my soundcard for that purpose - the reasons later).
Stereo Pre-Amplifier connected to my PC sound-card (Asus Xonar ST).

AVR connected to stereo preamp via HT bypass (thus using the same speaker set).

As my set-up stands and with my current equipment, I cannot (and obviously would not want to) use my sound card for reproducing sound for movies. Thus far, the zones are working as expected (i.e. different DSP set-up, different output device).

Now, on DSP settings, my stereo sound is and probably will remain without any processing. OTOH, i do intend to try out convolution/upsampling/etc. for movies as I am under the impression that audiolense and similar software in conjunction with a good calibration mike are much better than what most AVRs in the range of 1.5-2k can offer (probably with the exception of Anthem).

As I said earlier, to my mind, everything works fine as it is currently, with a small exception: given that when I configure a zone, I do that simply to use a different set of settings and playback devices depending on the content type, it makes sense also to be able to define for that given zones the media types it should handle by default.

I suspect that I am not the only one in this boat.

[BradC]

For movies and music I want to have different target curves. ie more bass for movies.
The target curve is defined in the convoluiton filter genrration process

I also wish to enable JRSS for movies and disable it for music. When I set only mix stereo to 2.1, and set subwoofer to none, it still affected the bass in music. hence I have to disbale JRSS for all content at present.

[glynor]

Here's the issue (or choice) as I see it:

1. Make Zones (Optionally) able to have Conditions, similar to the conditions you can add to rules in the Options -> Video -> Video Mode: Custom configuration system.
2. Create a new system of DSP Profiles, which can auto-load based on similar conditions.

The downside to using Zones is that Zones can also be used to play things simultaneously via different outputs (or the same output with different Detached Displays in the case of Video), and having an auto-loading Zone would conflict with this use-case (where you need to be able to manually switch to a zone and play something, and it stays there and has it's own Playing Now).  That is, after all, the primary use-case for Zones.  That's bad, I agree.  If you wanted to have both, you'd have to carefully craft your Zones, and it would get confusing with duplicates of everything.  You'd also need some way to reorder zones or prevent the user from adding the same condition to two or more zones.

The upside is that you combine multiple related functions into one unified interface.  You can get rid of those other settings, and unite it all under the Zones configuration.  We could have just one place to go to configure all of our "output" (DSP included).

The downside of option 2 is that it begins to create an array of interacting separate semi-automated fidgety-widgets that seem to threaten to become sentient and try to take over the world.  Right now, we already have an auto-loading by conditional configuration system, in the Video Mode Custom settings.  So you'd have these rules over here (which can affect Audio), which is this rules system with conditionals, and then you'd have this auto-loading profiles system over here for the DSP, which may-or-may not interact with your settings in the Video section... And then on top of that you have Zones, so you can have multiple different sets of these crazy setups.  And on and on and on, and then before you know it we have someone posting on Interact with so many weird zones and profiles and video custom loading conditionals that no one can ever diagnose what the heck is going wrong with their system.

And you just rebuilt the horrorshow previously known as Windows Merit based DirectShow playback.

The upside is that it does not interfere with Zones in any way, and you can use Zones to have "swichable" sets-of-sets of complex rules.  That seems pretty advanced to me (and probably making a lot of trouble for yourself down the road), but it would be more powerful, and perhaps less limiting/awkward.

So, I don't know.  Either one would work.  They both have their upsides and downsides.

I too would be happier if I could center-balance Movies more, while keeping Music with JRSS as-is, so something towards this goal would be appreciated.