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[elderavelas]

It looks like Media Center 17 sometimes causes dropouts, hiccups or clicks in the audio when I edit the track info in FLAC files.
I noticed some dropouts in a track that I've bought from HD Tracks after editing its tag (I've changed the cover art). Then I checked the original file (fortunately I had a backup) and it was perfect.
Then I noticed that other files had similar problems after changing track information, like date o track name.
The flaw is in the file as it always happens in the same part (time) of the song.
I only noticed the problem with FLAC files.
Does anyone else have this problem?
Thanks.

Elder

[JimH]

HDtracks files aren't standard FLAC but I wouldn't expect tagging to cause a problem.  It's possible that it's only in the playback side.  Try switching Audio output from WASAPI to ASIO, etc.  Try changing the buffer size.

You can edit tag information in MC and not modify the file.  It's an option in MC.

Did you change the tag by using MC?

Welcome to the forum.

[stealth82]

I'm guessing he's got a Xonar and he's using it in ASIO mode...

[Alex B]

It looks like Media Center 17 sometimes causes dropouts, hiccups or clicks in the audio when I edit the track info in FLAC files.
I noticed some dropouts in a track that I've bought from HD Tracks after editing its tag (I've changed the cover art). Then I checked the original file (fortunately I had a backup) and it was perfect. Then I noticed that other files had similar problems after changing track information, like date o track name. The flaw is in the file as it always happens in the same part (time) of the song. I only noticed the problem with FLAC files.

Even if MC's tagger would contain an undiscovered bug, tagging with MC would not be likely to cause partial corruption in the audio data that would always occur only at a certain moment or moments when the track is played.

However, I believe you are correct in saying that the file is somehow corrupted.

I wonder if the apparent file corruption could be caused by OS level file system, network, RAM, or disk errors.

The FLAC tags are in the beginning of the file. The tag block in FLAC files may include so called padding area that allows to make small tag changes without rewriting the file. However including padding is not mandatory (I don't know if the HD Tracks files have it) and in any case the padding block is usually not big enough to include cover art. (For example, the FLAC encoder in MC has an option to add a 4 KB padding block).

When you add or change embedded cover art the complete file must be rewritten and if the OS and hardware are not rock solid something may go wrong.

Does anyone else have this problem?

I don't.

[Vincent Kars]

A simple one is to test using FLAC

FLAC –t Original.FLAC
FLAC –t Tagged.FLAC

flac will exit with an exit code of 1 (and print a message, even in silent mode) if there were any errors during decoding, including when the MD5 checksum does not match the decoded output. Otherwise the exit code will be 0.
http://flac.sourceforge.net/documentation_tools_flac.html

[NickF]

I hope this isn't a general problem!  I have just included cover art in all of my flac music files, trying to overcome the WebGizmo problem with cover art (not resolved in the latest version by the way!).

elderavelas, where does the dropout occur - how far into the track?  Have you had this happen with a normal flac ripped from a CD?

Nick.

[elderavelas]

HDtracks files aren't standard FLAC but I wouldn't expect tagging to cause a problem.  It's possible that it's only in the playback side.  Try switching Audio output from WASAPI to ASIO, etc.  Try changing the buffer size.

You can edit tag information in MC and not modify the file.  It's an option in MC.

Did you change the tag by using MC?

Welcome to the forum.

Hello JimH.

It is not only at the playback side as the file had the flaw played back by any player (Foobar2000, Windows Media Player, Oppo BDP-95 (streamed or played back from a flash drive)).

I suppose editing the tag without changing the file will only work with Media Center. I use to play my music on my Oppo BDP-95, too.

I changed the tag using MC. I used to edit the tags using Foobar2000 before trying MC.

The problem happened not only with HD Tracks files but also with files from e-classical and other downloads.

When one of the corrupted files had a dropout the track time went back one second then proceded to the correct time.

Unfortunately I deleted the corrupted files.

All these problems happened in an earlier version of MC 17.
If it happens again I'll keep the corrupted file. If possible, I could send it to you for analysis.

Thanks.

[elderavelas]

I'm guessing he's got a Xonar and he's using it in ASIO mode...

Nope! I have an Audio-gd NFB-12 (USB DAC) and I'm using WASAPI Event Style.

[elderavelas]

I wonder if the apparent file corruption could be caused by OS level file system, network, RAM, or disk errors.

The FLAC tags are in the beginning of the file. The tag bloc in FLAC files may include so called padding area that allows to make small tag changes without rewriting the file. However including padding is not mandatory (I don't know if the HD Tracks files have it) and in any case the padding block is usually not big enough to include cover art. (For example, the FLAC encoder in MC has an option to add a 4 KB padding block).

When you add or change embedded cover art the complete file must be rewritten and if the OS and hardware are not rock solid something may go wrong.

I wonder that the file could be corrupted by disk errors, too, but I had no problems with any other file types in the same disk, so far. I never had problem with tagging when I used Foobar or other applications like iTunes and Windows Media Center (these two for other formats but FLAC).

As no one else had the same problem, may be it is a glitch of my system.

[elderavelas]

elderavelas, where does the dropout occur - how far into the track?  Have you had this happen with a normal flac ripped from a CD?

Nick, it can occur anywhere in the track. I didn't have to edit tags of normal flac ripped from a CD, so I don't know if this can happen with them.
I'm beginning to rip my CD's and encoding them to FLAC. I have ripped only 10 albums, so far, and edited the track info before ripping, when necessary. I didn't notice any problems with these tracks but I didn't listen to all of them yet.
I'm using MC 17.0.68.

[elderavelas]

A simple one is to test using FLAC

FLAC –t Original.FLAC
FLAC –t Tagged.FLAC
 

I'll try it.

[Alex B]

...I changed the tag using MC. I used to edit the tags using Foobar2000 before trying MC.

The problem happened not only with HD Tracks files but also with files from e-classical and other downloads.

When one of the corrupted files had a dropout the track time went back one second then proceded to the correct time.

Unfortunately I deleted the corrupted files.

Since you are familiar with foobar 2000, I'd recommend to test the files with its file integrity verifier plugin: http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_verifier . You can drag & drop the files to a playlist and test them all in a patch.

All these problems happened in an earlier version of MC 17.
If it happens again I'll keep the corrupted file. If possible, I could send it to you for analysis.

No changes in the FLAC tagger have been announced.

I wonder that the file could be corrupted by disk errors, too, but I had no problems with any other file types in the same disk, so far. I never had problem with tagging when I used Foobar or other applications like iTunes and Windows Media Center (these two for other formats but FLAC).

As no one else had the same problem, may be it is a glitch of my system.

As a quick test, I just added a 300 KB cover art image to a 75 MB 96/24 HDTracks FLAC file over a 100 Mbit wired LAN. As expected, tagging was a lot slower than tagging a local file because the complete file was rewritten and thus transmitted twice through the LAN (read + write), but the resulting file was fine.

It is possible that tagging and rewriting several big FLAC files in a batch stresses your system in way that makes the problem occasionally show up.

Nick, it can occur anywhere in the track. I didn't have to edit tags of normal flac ripped from a CD, so I don't know if this can happen with them.
I'm beginning to rip my CD's and encoding them to FLAC. I have ripped only 10 albums, so far, and edited the track info before ripping, when necessary. I didn't notice any problems with these tracks but I didn't listen to all of them yet. I'm using MC 17.0.68.

File tagging is the last step in the ripping process. The complete audio file is created before it is tagged. If tagging can corrupt the files on your system the problem may occur also with ripped files.

Though as you said, if the OS or HW are not working correctly the problems should not be limited to FLAC tagging.

[elderavelas]

A simple one is to test using FLAC

FLAC –t Original.FLAC
FLAC –t Tagged.FLAC
 

Hello Vincent,

I found a corrupted file and run the FLAC command line.
There is a flaw at 3:25.

This is what I got from the FLAC command line:

Microsoft Windows [versão 6.1.7601]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. Todos os direitos reservados.

C:\Users\Elder\Desktop\Flac>flac -t 9-Contrabajissimo.flac

flac 1.1.4, Copyright (C) 2000,2001,2002,2003,2004,2005,2006,2007  Josh Coalson
flac comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY.  This is free software, and you are
welcome to redistribute it under certain conditions.  Type `flac' for details.

9-Contrabajissimo.flac: ok

C:\Users\Elder\Desktop\Flac>flac -t 9-Contrabajissimo_tagged.flac

flac 1.1.4, Copyright (C) 2000,2001,2002,2003,2004,2005,2006,2007  Josh Coalson
flac comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY.  This is free software, and you are
welcome to redistribute it under certain conditions.  Type `flac' for details.

9-Contrabajissimo_tagged.flac: testing, 33% complete9-Contrabajissimo_tagged.fla
c: *** Got error code 0:FLAC__STREAM_DECODER_ERROR_STATUS_LOST_SYNC
9-Contrabajissimo_tagged.flac: *** Got error code 2:FLAC__STREAM_DECODER_ERROR_S
TATUS_FRAME_CRC_MISMATCH


9-Contrabajissimo_tagged.flac: ERROR while decoding data
                               state = FLAC__STREAM_DECODER_SEARCH_FOR_FRAME_SYN
C


Thanks

[elderavelas]

Since you are familiar with foobar 2000, I'd recommend to test the files with its file integrity verifier plugin: http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_verifier . You can drag & drop the files to a playlist and test them all in a patch.

It is possible that tagging and rewriting several big FLAC files in a batch stresses your system in way that makes the problem occasionally show up.

Hi Alex.

I used the file integrity verifier and found some corrupted tracks in an album.
I got these problems when I edited the tags of all tracks in the album altogether.
I replaced the cover art of all files in batch.

These are the file verification results of the corrupted tracks:

Item: "E:\Música\My HDTracks Music\Astor Piazzolla\The Central Park Concert\09-Contrabajissimo.flac"
MD5: AD11E7535935E042112CC941B6677D8A
CRC32: 970F40A4
Warning: Reported length is inaccurate : 10:10.333333 vs 10:10.019864 decoded
Error: Corrupted FLAC stream
Error: MD5 mismatch

Item: "E:\Música\My HDTracks Music\Astor Piazzolla\The Central Park Concert\10-Michelangelo 70.flac"
MD5: F79C3DE27BEFA65D9EEC9D5A6DCBD7AD
CRC32: B12BFE6E
Warning: Reported length is inaccurate : 3:23.773333 vs 3:23.250884 decoded
Error: Corrupted FLAC stream
Error: MD5 mismatch

Item: "E:\Música\My HDTracks Music\Astor Piazzolla\The Central Park Concert\11-Concierto Para Quinteto.flac"
MD5: A025F2C7B16D0FA87BFB9E1C912B3711
CRC32: 4EF0C5B1
Warning: Reported length is inaccurate : 9:46.200000 vs 9:45.573061 decoded
Error: Corrupted FLAC stream
Error: MD5 mismatch

Thanks,

Elder

[Vincent Kars]

Obvious your FLAC is corrupted after tagging.
I can conjecture up 2 reasons
-   JRiver broke something but then I expect a plethora of complains
-   You have flaky memory in your PC. PC mem is one of the few parts without error correction (ECC memory).
I do recommend to run a memory test: http://www.memtest.org/

[MrC]

If the OP can perform a test, it would be worthwhile to perform a binary compare of a known good version of one FLAC file with a bad one.  This can show a single bit error, which would tend to indicate memory issues.

I use the *nix cmp utility, but there are probably other methods.

[Alex B]

The excellent HxD hex editor can compare two files and easily show a single bit error.

http://mh-nexus.de/en/hxd/

The attached screenshots:
1. The first file in HxD & the Compare menu item (it will let you select the second file)
2. HxD shows a single bit difference (press F6 to find the next difference)

EDIT

Of course, the OP would first need to remove the tag block from both files, i.e. find the place where the bits start to be identical and delete all preceding data from both files. HxD can do this, but it is not an easy task.

EDIT 2

Also, it would be better to perform the file comparison on some other PC, i.e. not on the PC that is suspected of having problems.


Log in to the forum if you can't see the attachments.

[elderavelas]

You can edit tag information in MC and not modify the file.  It's an option in MC.

Hello JimH,

I looked for the option to edit tag information in MC and not modify the file but I didn't find it.
I noticed that MC is doing something to the tags in background. A dialog box appeared, after closing the MC, saying something like finishing saving tags (nn tags remaining). I didn't change anything, why MC was saving the tags? (May be "saving" is not the correct word, I don't remember the exact term).

I have fixed some corrupted files copying from the backup.
They were fine. I run the file verification and they passed. After this automatic tag update, the same files are now corrupted again. That's weird.
How do I stop MC from updating the tags by itself?

Thanks.

[MrC]

How do I stop MC from updating the tags by itself?

Disable:

   Edit > Update Tags When File Info Changes

[Alex B]

Unchecking the "Edit > Update Tags When File Info Changes" or "Tools > Options > General > Importing and Tagging > Update tags when file info changes" option (the same option can be accessed in both places) disables all tag writing.


If you want to disable only unattended tag editing that may happen in background, but would still like to be able to do small intended textual tag changes, uncheck:

- Tools > Options > Library & Folders > Auto-Import > Configure auto-import... > Tasks > Analyze Audio  (this analyzes the imported files for Replay Gain & BPM and writes the corresponding tags to the files)

- Tools > Options > Library & Folders > Auto-Import > Configure auto-import... > Tasks > Get cover art  (this searches cover art from an online database and by default embeds the downloaded cover art images to the files)


In addition you may want to set MC to use only external cover art. Uncheck:

- Tools > Options > File Location > Cover Art > Also store image in the file's tag

[elderavelas]

Obvious your FLAC is corrupted after tagging.
I can conjecture up 2 reasons
-   JRiver broke something but then I expect a plethora of complains
-   You have flaky memory in your PC. PC mem is one of the few parts without error correction (ECC memory).
I do recommend to run a memory test: http://www.memtest.org/

Memory test passed.

[elderavelas]

The excellent HxD hex editor can compare two files and easily show a single bit error.

http://mh-nexus.de/en/hxd/

The attached screenshots:
1. The first file in HxD & the Compare menu item (it will let you select the second file)
2. HxD shows a single bit difference (press F6 to find the next difference)

EDIT

Of course, the OP would first need to remove the tag block from both files, i.e. find the place where the bits start to be identical and delete all preceding data from both files. HxD can do this, but it is not an easy task.

EDIT 2

Also, it would be better to perform the file comparison on some other PC, i.e. not on the PC that is suspected of having problems.


Log in to the forum if you can't see the attachments.

With different tags the files will be different. There is no point on performing a file comparison.

[Alex B]

As I said, it is possible to remove the tag block from the beginning of the file, but it isn't an exactly easy task.

[MrC]

You just need to know where the audio block starts.  A good binary comparison utility allows setting skip points.  Maybe Alex B will submit a change request. ;-)

[Alex B]

... I noticed that MC is doing something to the tags in background. A dialog box appeared, after closing the MC, saying something like finishing saving tags (nn tags remaining). I didn't change anything, why MC was saving the tags? (May be "saving" is not the correct word, I don't remember the exact term).

I have fixed some corrupted files copying from the backup.
They were fine. I run the file verification and they passed. After this automatic tag update, the same files are now corrupted again. That's weird. ...

Could it be possible that you turned the computer off or disconnected a storage device (if you use an external or a network drive) before the tagging task was finished? That would probably corrupt some of the files.

BTW, are the files on local drive that has lots of free space? Rewriting the complete files when cover art is added to big FLAC files can be very slow in some circumstances.

[elderavelas]

As I said, it is possible to remove the tag block from the beginning of the file, but it isn't an exactly easy task.

Sorry, I missed that part.

I'll try it in my notebook.

[elderavelas]

You just need to know where the audio block starts.  A good binary comparison utility allows setting skip points.  Maybe Alex B will submit a change request. ;-)

Do you have a FTP area where I could upload both good and corrupted files?
I believe you are the best people to perform the file comparison.

[elderavelas]

Unchecking the "Edit > Update Tags When File Info Changes" or "Tools > Options > General > Importing and Tagging > Update tags when file info changes" option (the same option can be accessed in both places) disables all tag writing.


If you want to disable only unattended tag editing that may happen in background, but would still like to be able to do small intended textual tag changes, uncheck:

- Tools > Options > Library & Folders > Auto-Import > Configure auto-import... > Tasks > Analyze Audio  (this analyzes the imported files for Replay Gain & BPM and writes the corresponding tags to the files)

- Tools > Options > Library & Folders > Auto-Import > Configure auto-import... > Tasks > Get cover art  (this searches cover art from an online database and by default embeds the downloaded cover art images to the files)


In addition you may want to set MC to use only external cover art. Uncheck:

- Tools > Options > File Location > Cover Art > Also store image in the file's tag

Some files that I have not changed anything got corrupted, too. I have the Analyze Audio option enabled. I guess this caused the file corruption.
I'll disable all these options that affect the tags.

I got files ripped from my CDs corrupted. I'll disable the analyze audio option from the ripping options, too.

Thanks

[elderavelas]

Disable:

   Edit > Update Tags When File Info Changes

This was already disabled.

[elderavelas]

If you want to disable only unattended tag editing that may happen in background, but would still like to be able to do small intended textual tag changes, uncheck:

- Tools > Options > Library & Folders > Auto-Import > Configure auto-import... > Tasks > Analyze Audio  (this analyzes the imported files for Replay Gain & BPM and writes the corresponding tags to the files)

- Tools > Options > Library & Folders > Auto-Import > Configure auto-import... > Tasks > Get cover art  (this searches cover art from an online database and by default embeds the downloaded cover art images to the files)

I thought I had Analyze Audio enabled but it was disabled.
Get cover art was enabled. It is now disabled.

Thanks

[elderavelas]

Disable:

   Edit > Update Tags When File Info Changes

I said it was already disabled, but I was wrong. It was enabled.
I have disabled it in the Tools > Options > General > Importing & Tagging menu before checking the Edit menu. When I went to edit menu I saw the option disabled but this was because I've disabled it in the general option. Alex has told me that "the same option can be accessed in both places". I failed to remember this when I read your post. Shame on me  . Sorry.

[Richee]

Thought I'd chime in on this.
I do have 2 HD Tracks albums that are 96k/24 bit flac and
have had no problems at all after importing them.
I have Update tags switch on, do not save cover art
to file and have anaylized audio.

Can you duplicate the corruption of files if
tagging is done in some other program like foobar?

If you can duplicate the corruption in multiple programs
that should rule out the problems source as MC17.

Hope this helps.

[elderavelas]

Can you duplicate the corruption of files if
tagging is done in some other program like foobar?

If you can duplicate the corruption in multiple programs
that should rule out the problems source as MC17.

Richee,

I cannot duplicate the corruption if tagging in Foobar.
I've done a lot of tagging yesterday and today in foobar, including adding hd cover art (up to 600k) in a batch. I run file verification after changing the tags and all files passed OK.
I've changed tags using MC as well as changing tags in MC is much easier. I have enabled the update tags when file info changes again because I want the tags with the right info when I play the files with my Oppo player.
It seems that it is OK now that the background tag updates are no longer happening. I ripped 10 CDs with MC and included the cover art. None of the files got corrupted.
Today I got only one file corrupted while changing the tags. I recovered the file from the back up and updated the tag again and it is fine. Even with the option do automatically download cover art from internet disabled, it seems that MC updated some files by itself. It looks like MC realized that the server tag info was different from the file tag and updated it with the info stored. This caused some other files to get corrupted again. Then I deleted all cover art stored in the cover art folder. I recovered and retagged the corrupted files. They are OK, so far.

[elderavelas]

I'd like to let you know that since I disabled the option to get the cover art from internet automatically, no more files got corrupted.
I kept the "Update tags when file info changes" option enabled.
I'm ripping my CD collection and I'm updating the album info and getting the cover art before ripping. The MC updates the files tags after ripping and, so far, all files are fine.
I check the files integrity after ripping. I'm regularly checking all files, too. They are all fine.

Thanks.

[carver188]

Hello All.

My music files are dropping-out/silent at the same spot on some songs, and I swear this is happening to more music files as it ages. 
All songs are ripped from CD to .flac.  Even a converted flac to wav song dropped-out at the same min:sec.
Been using MC since 2002.
I use keyword "ReRip" so I know which songs to rerip, and that's when I'm noticing I'm adding that keyword to new songs - only 7 of the 1500 songs in my library, I've heard most of them.
JRiver has been migrated from multiple Windows machines, and now currently sits on W7 machine.

I don't mind reripping, but is this a cancer that will continue to happen???

Thanks and Merry Christmas!
Scott