Topic: POLL: Modified Noire skin ... All black? Or black and white? (Read 22443 times)

JimH · « **on:** February 21, 2012, 09:17:10 am »

We're working on a modified version of Noire, the default skin for JRiver Media Center. We'd like to hear your thoughts.

Here are two Screenshots on Pix01.

Black and White is the current Noire.

Thanks,

Jim

glynor · « **Reply #1 on:** February 21, 2012, 09:28:39 am »

I'm not sure what "Black & White" means in the voting, but I assumed that it meant "the current one is better" (and that's how I voted).

Sorry. Not a fan of that screenshot. Of course, the current Noire skin is awesome, so... $:-\$

AoXoMoXoA · « **Reply #2 on:** February 21, 2012, 09:36:10 am »

Since the current version has dark and white, it would be nice to have the all dark version as an alternative.

phalanthus · « **Reply #3 on:** February 21, 2012, 09:51:31 am »

love the all black

Skogkatt · « **Reply #4 on:** February 21, 2012, 10:03:15 am »

All black is very elegant!

jgreen · « **Reply #5 on:** February 21, 2012, 10:40:59 am »

All BLACK, baby, widda BLING!!

MrC · « **Reply #6 on:** February 21, 2012, 10:54:35 am »

The one on the left.

tcman41 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 21, 2012, 10:58:03 am »

Once you go black you never go back

Lasse_Lus · « **Reply #8 on:** February 21, 2012, 10:58:28 am »

i've tried quite a few skins, but i quickly return to "today's noire", it's the only skin that i find ok (smooth for my eyes) when "working/managing" MC, maybe i could use the dark skin when just "listening", but i hope you dont remove the black & white skin, because that is the best.

marko · « **Reply #9 on:** February 21, 2012, 10:59:49 am »

Hey... that "All Black" number has a gradient going on in the view header, so what it that, a mock up, or are images now supported in the view header background?

If you do decide to jump with the "All Black", I think you might want to consider doing something with the "ListSelection.png" image. The white top part is too bright, making the selected item hard to read, and will probably look really distracting with a multiple selection, bit like a zebra crossing (one of those things on the front of the Abbey Road album for those not familiar).

Also, ask your skin developer if they would like separate "ListSelection.png" and "ThumbSelection.png" files. I've found that finding a good looking balance between a selection in a details list and a selection in a thumbnail list is often really hard to find.

-marko

NickF · « **Reply #10 on:** February 21, 2012, 04:21:21 pm »

I much prefer the current Noire. In the "All Black", everything just merges together and the text is much harder to read. I don't like it at all, I'm afraid. By all means, have it as an option.

Nick.

wig · « **Reply #11 on:** February 21, 2012, 04:26:34 pm »

Aruba. But that wasn't an option so I voted for Black and White.

FastKayak · « **Reply #12 on:** February 21, 2012, 05:53:46 pm »

I voted no preference. My favorite standard view skin is Purity...why? It is more "large print" which works better for me. Firstly, on my 1900 x 1200 monitor where I like a few apps to use larger fronts, and secondly on my Sony HD TV connected to my HTPC where I like the larger fonts because I am reading from across the room. And thirdly, I am looking for contrast between text and background. So all black might be fine or maybe black & white is fine too, but I couldn't tell from the screen shots what the text contrast was.

FastKayak / Larry

contium · « **Reply #13 on:** February 21, 2012, 10:41:41 pm »

I like all black but then I've been using this for years:

I tend to use JRiver in a dark room a black theme is just easier on my eyes and less distracting.

Scolex · « **Reply #14 on:** February 21, 2012, 10:50:51 pm »

I prefer the all black and asked the little lady and she picked the all black too.

jack wallstreet · « **Reply #15 on:** February 21, 2012, 10:52:58 pm »

Quote from: contium on February 21, 2012, 10:41:41 pm

I tend to use JRiver in a dark room a black theme is just easier on my eyes and less distracting.

I like the current one better, but if I used it in dim rooms, I would almost undoubtedly like the black better. As has been noted, the white may be easier on eyes in a bright room, the black in a dark room.. Of course, we want both.

glynor · « **Reply #16 on:** February 21, 2012, 11:32:23 pm »

Quote from: jack wallstreet on February 21, 2012, 10:52:58 pm

I like the current one better, but if I used it in dim rooms, I would almost undoubtedly like the black better. As has been noted, the white may be easier on eyes in a bright room, the black in a dark room.. Of course, we want both.

Maybe then I'd agree. I use Theater View for that though... $:-\$

Quote from: marko on February 21, 2012, 10:59:49 am

Hey... that "All Black" number has a gradient going on in the view header, so what it that, a mock up, or are images now supported in the view header background?

I also don't like that. It looks weird.

sunfire7 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 22, 2012, 12:41:21 am »

All black is very ugly. Current one black & White is excellent.

park · « **Reply #18 on:** February 22, 2012, 03:27:12 am »

Current B/W looks all round more professional at the moment.

However the all-black could work if the highlights were toned down a bit. I think that the all black background looks quite elegant, but the selected elements on screen looks really noisy. Kind of like win amp skins were like 15 years ago. Perhaps part of the problem is the glassiness of it all. Maybe flatter styles for selected elements would be less intense.

MrHaugen · « **Reply #19 on:** February 22, 2012, 04:08:01 am »

I like the black better. The other one is kind of dull. But why choose? We want both

Just call the new one Noir Black and have it in addition to the old one perhaps? What is default does not matter much to me. The black one would probably suite people better for TV's and PJ's? I know I would use the black one for my HTPC, even though I don't use much time in Std view.

Darn! I voted wrong! So, it's one more on Black, and one less on Black and white

28 vs 29

SamuelMaki · « **Reply #20 on:** February 22, 2012, 04:23:32 am »

I like the all black (which is why I use Purity skin

). It is more eyefriendly in dark room via projector than the black and white...

Daydream · « **Reply #21 on:** February 22, 2012, 05:27:59 am »

Voted black and white.

The glossy reflection of the selection line makes things very difficult to read (here and in any other skin that uses this style). The top gradient, either mockup or real feature... it moves across too many elements, something rubs me the wrong way.

In my book no standard skin beats No.4. And that's a black&white one.

MrHaugen · « **Reply #22 on:** February 22, 2012, 05:42:51 am »

Quote from: Daydream on February 22, 2012, 05:27:59 am

The glossy reflection of the selection line makes things very difficult to read (here and in any other skin that uses this style). The top gradient, either mockup or real feature... it moves across too many elements, something rubs me the wrong way.

I agree with you there. Especially the top gradient stuff is just way to much. Colors there does not fit that well imo.

Magic_Randy · « **Reply #23 on:** February 22, 2012, 08:07:04 am »

I like the All Black Noire.

BryanC · « **Reply #24 on:** February 22, 2012, 11:50:09 am »

I would like the best of both worlds:

I really like the clean look of the black and white (which I think is more functional), but the all-black has some elements that I think would transfer well to the black and white:

RED: The delineating bar at the top should be removed, I think it looks much better and more modern without it in the all-black skin. The Action Window and column headers could possibly go "black" like the rest of the skin. As I see it now, the theme is actually Black and White (and Beige).

BLUE: Maybe these could go a little brighter (cleaner white?)

Also, the status bar blends better in the black theme, so maybe it could go a little grayer in the black and white? I know there is a gradient going on but maybe you could make the whole black portions of the and black and white theme a tad darker and get rid of the gradient?

The best thing about the White and Black theme are the file details and tree-list panes which I believe look much better than the Black skin. I would definitely want to keep that feature unless the Black theme drastically improved file details readability.

AoXoMoXoA · « **Reply #25 on:** February 22, 2012, 12:25:51 pm »

I'm a bit confused:

considering the 'Black & White' Noire is what we already have, and that the poll has remained pretty much a dead heat . . . .

why not just add the 'All Black' Noire and then we will have a choice of both available?

WeeHappyPixie · « **Reply #26 on:** February 22, 2012, 12:45:30 pm »

All Black for me please..

John

Alex B · « **Reply #27 on:** February 22, 2012, 01:10:02 pm »

MC9 (after MJ8), MC10, MC11, MC12 had new default skins. MC12's Noire skin was a great success and I think it was a good decision to not change it in MC13-17.

The effect of the default skin should not be underestimated. Noire has kind of defined the identity, look and feel of MC. I would not recommend changing the default skin radically without a very good reason. In my opinion at least a few months of extensive testing and polling with very positive feedback would be needed to justify such a change.

The only thing that I would change in Noire is to make the light gray color of the gridlines slightly darker. On many usual uncalibrated displays they are too light and do not show up at all. I actually once had a tweaked version of Noire that had this issue fixed, but I seem to have lost it somewhere. (marko, if you read this, which values would I need to adjust? Previously I used the trial and error method and it was a quite frustrating process.)

MrHaugen · « **Reply #28 on:** February 22, 2012, 02:00:25 pm »

I agree with Alex. You should be careful about changing the default. Another skin shipped with MC on the other hand. That can't fail

ElQuia · « **Reply #29 on:** February 22, 2012, 02:38:59 pm »

Do BOTH, give the user the choice

Daydream · « **Reply #30 on:** February 22, 2012, 03:21:36 pm »

Quote from: Alex B on February 22, 2012, 01:10:02 pm

it was a good decision to not change it in MC13-17.
[...]
I would not recommend changing the default skin radically without a very good reason.

I guess somebody saw the reason somewhere in between those lines

In other words it's been too long.

Quote

The only thing that I would change in Noire is to make the light gray color of the gridlines slightly darker.

Don't you think after all these years a paint job is not enough? What about adding new features, new skinning options. Say, making that search box resizable and so on. After such an establish skin as Noire we can't have something named "Noire-ish" and call it a day.

r_harms · « **Reply #31 on:** February 22, 2012, 05:53:39 pm »

I Prefer the Black. I've been using Carbon since day one. I've tuned a vis studio template into something I can't live without. I'm 90% Music so I like my screen to look like a Music-Playing-Machine. To me the white background text areas look more like a normal computer app.

I'd say with the voting so close you are on the right track with the new skin, but in the end though I would agree with Alex. For general use I think the current skin should be familiar to new users, and comfortable for about any use.

I dug in on day one to find out how I could re-skin to my liking and have been hooked on Media Center ever since.

Rick

DarkPenguin · « **Reply #32 on:** February 22, 2012, 07:27:12 pm »

Quote from: FastKayak on February 21, 2012, 05:53:46 pm

I voted no preference. My favorite standard view skin is Purity...why? It is more "large print" which works better for me. Firstly, on my 1900 x 1200 monitor where I like a few apps to use larger fronts, and secondly on my Sony HD TV connected to my HTPC where I like the larger fonts because I am reading from across the room. And thirdly, I am looking for contrast between text and background. So all black might be fine or maybe black & white is fine too, but I couldn't tell from the screen shots what the text contrast was.

FastKayak / Larry

+1 on the purity skin.

I vote for whatever looks least like noire. That skin is so old it first appeared on ENIAC. New! Must have new!

marko · « **Reply #33 on:** February 23, 2012, 12:48:25 am »

Indeed. It should also have that "something", a bit of wow factor. I mean, I look at that 'black' preview, and my first thought was 'that's pretty ugly', my second was 'I know I could do better than that' and that's when I noticed the gradient in the view header, which isn't currently possible, leading me to think that it's not a skin, just a mock-up.

A new flagship skin should be 'out there', untouchable, loads of 'wow'. Even if I thought it was ugly, I could still concede wow factor if it existed. Certainly, someone with my pitiful Photoshop skills should not look at it and immediately feel they could do (or have done) better. It should be more a case of 'how on earth did they do that' and no matter how hard I try to imitate or emulate, I can't quite manage it.

Dark and light skins are quite polarising, and the poll appears to be bearing that out. I've turned out both, with each receiving favourable feedback, though I have the distinct feeling that the darker variety are slightly more popular. They're also harder to get right.

Quote from: DarkPenguin on February 22, 2012, 07:27:12 pm

That skin is so old it first appeared on ENIAC.

Quote

15 random points about the computer you never heard of:

1) Short for Electronic Numerical Integrator And Computer

2) The first general-purpose electronic computer.

3) ENIAC was designed to calculate artillery firing tables for the U.S. Army’s Ballistic Research Laboratory.

4) The ENIAC contained 17,468 vacuum tubes, along with 70,000 resistors, 10,000 capacitors, 1,500 relays, 6,000 manual switches and 5 million soldered joints. It covered 1,800 square feet of floor space, weighed 30 tons, and consumed 160,000 Watts of electrical power.

5) ENIAC was conceived and designed by J. Presper Eckert and John Mauchly of the University of Pennsylvania.

6) The six women who did most of the programming of ENIAC were inducted in 1997 into the Women in Technology International Hall of Fame.

7) At 11:45 p.m., October 2, 1955, with the power finally shut off, the ENIAC retired.

8.) In one second, the ENIAC (one thousand times faster than any other calculating machine to date) could perform 5,000 additions, 357 multiplications or 38 divisions.

9) The ENIAC was not originally designed as an internally programmed computer. The program was set up manually by varying switches and cable connections. However, means for altering the program and repeating its iterative steps were built into the master programmer.

10) For example, a skilled person with a desk calculator could compute a 60- second trajectory in about 20 hours. The analog differential analyzer produced the same result in 15 minutes. ENIAC required 30 seconds–just half the time of the projectile’s flight.

11) In addition to ballistics, the ENIAC’s field of application included weather prediction, atomic-energy calculations, cosmic-ray studies, thermal ignition, random-number studies, wind-tunnel design, and other scientific uses. It is recalled that no electronic computers were being applied to commercial problems until about 1951.

12) A classified military project known only as Project PX.

13) Some of ENIAC’s competitors, namely the ABC and Z3, were far slower and could tackle only small problems.

14) Used a word of 10 decimal digits instead of binary ones like previous automated calculators/computers.

15) A controversy developed in 1971, however, over the patentability of ENIAC’s basic digital concepts, the claim being made that another U.S. physicist, John V. Atanasoff, had already used the same ideas in a simpler vacuum-tube device he built in the 1930s while at Iowa State College. In 1973, the court found in favor of the company using Atanasoff claim and Atanasoff received the acclaim he rightly deserved.

http://theangrygentleman.wordpress.com/2009/10/18/random-eniac-facts/

-marko

Beamer · « **Reply #34 on:** February 23, 2012, 01:10:09 pm »

The all black gets my vote on the basis that most of the time my system is operating in a dimmed environment and all black is very easy on the eyes.

Fabricio · « **Reply #35 on:** February 23, 2012, 02:00:49 pm »

I think:

Notebook 14" resolution 1366x768, skin Black and white is best (very easy on the eyes).

Monitor 20" (or more), skin all black is best.

Fabricio, from Brazil.

lise · « **Reply #36 on:** February 23, 2012, 02:46:12 pm »

The all black looks nice & slick, but I would never use it. Too hard on the eyes.
If I am not in theatre view, it's because I'm tagging or something, and for that, I want everything to be clear and easy on the eyes.

StFeder · « **Reply #37 on:** February 23, 2012, 06:32:49 pm »

I'd like it all black : )

Quote from: lise on February 23, 2012, 02:46:12 pm

The all black looks nice & slick, but I would never use it. Too hard on the eyes.

In contrast to you I don't use the current Noire skin, because it's too hard on my eyes

Likely a personal belief, but: the darker the screen and the less the contrast, the more comfortable.

I'm currently using Black and Blue which features a light grey font on a dark black background. Even in the middle of the night I can look at it without "burning" my eyes.

Hm, perhaps I should wear sunglasses at night

glynor · « **Reply #38 on:** February 24, 2012, 12:37:41 am »

+1,000,000 to what marko said.

I think it could, maybe, be time for a skin refresh. And, a darker skin (white on black instead of black on white) could be neat, and handy, and some people would like it. I just don't like that one. It would have to be better than Noire, and that one is not, IMHO.

And to everyone who says that we should have both, I think that's obvious. We still have Blue Steel, and that used to be the default skin. They don't get the new whiz-bang features, usually, when they're no longer top-dog, but they won't remove the old one.

JimH · « **Reply #39 on:** February 24, 2012, 08:32:43 pm »

Progress report, still rough:
http://pix01.com/Jw%40UjTP

jgreen · « **Reply #40 on:** February 24, 2012, 08:50:00 pm »

I think the new one is more or less spectacular. As for the blotchy gradient, this is inspired, IMO. I say you do a third rendition with the same treatment across the entire top bar, bringing in two more colors. Reference: Capitol Records LPs.

ALSO: I like that the top bar is somewhat smaller, or else my eyes are going.

ALSO ALSO: I'm thinking that this is the first default skin (since Thunderstorm) that has kept pace with the cutting-edge nature of the software. Currently, I use Aruba (negative), which is a blue version of this without the blotches. I never liked the white space in Noire, to me it bought back everything that the black borders were selling.

JustinChase · « **Reply #41 on:** February 24, 2012, 09:45:54 pm »

Quote from: marko on February 21, 2012, 10:59:49 am

If you do decide to jump with the "All Black", I think you might want to consider doing something with the "ListSelection.png" image. The white top part is too bright, making the selected item hard to read, and will probably look really distracting with a multiple selection, bit like a zebra crossing.

I agree, the lower one is worse, but the top one is too difficult also.

The second mockup is very nice. The colors along the top bar actually look like the Microsoft Flag showing thru.

wig · « **Reply #42 on:** February 24, 2012, 09:58:47 pm »

Have you gathered any feedback from new or non-users? Those are the folks that really matter for a new default skin, right? I don't like the black noire skin at all but I can easily change it. First impressions are the key.

BryanC · « **Reply #43 on:** February 24, 2012, 10:27:59 pm »

Quote from: JimH on February 24, 2012, 08:32:43 pm

Progress report, still rough:
http://pix01.com/Jw%40UjTP

Ooooh, way better. The flatter look in the column headings and selection highlights is much better.

It's on the "way to blue" as Nick Drake would say.

MrC · « **Reply #44 on:** February 24, 2012, 10:33:59 pm »

While you're mucking w/the plumbing, maybe...

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=69228.msg468716#msg468716

Matt · « **Reply #45 on:** February 24, 2012, 10:41:09 pm »

First, I may be the reason we haven't switched default skins in so long. I think Noire is exceptional, and I drag my feet whenever we talk about changing.

However, the last screenshot Jim posted doesn't do the new skin justice. The top bar is actually a dark glass, and the color bands are just the wallpaper showing. Here's a screenshot that shows the effect better:

JimH · « **Reply #46 on:** February 25, 2012, 07:19:28 am »

The previous black images were mockups. This one is a real skin, still not finished.

marko · « **Reply #47 on:** February 25, 2012, 08:21:18 am »

Quote from: JimH on February 25, 2012, 07:19:28 am

The previous black images were mockups.

Ha...

Quote from: marko on February 23, 2012, 12:48:25 am

.... leading me to think that it's not a skin, just a mock-up.

Quote from: JimH on February 25, 2012, 07:19:28 am

This one is a real skin, still not finished.

Getting there now... beginning to look interesting... Smoked glass eh? I tried that already and failed miserably

instigator · « **Reply #48 on:** February 25, 2012, 10:50:56 am »

I think the black one.
And what did you think about this?

PS:Is not a mockup, and it's not finished (the treeview, action pane and others things) I have some free time this weekend so probably I can finish that.

JimH · « **Reply #49 on:** February 25, 2012, 10:57:25 am »

Very nice. I'll split this to a new thread later today.

INTERACT FORUM

Poll

Which Noire do you prefer?

Author Topic: POLL: Modified Noire skin ... All black? Or black and white? (Read 22443 times)