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[dturrall]

Hi all, I am new to JRiver and new to this forum so forgive me if I have missed something obvious! ;-)

I am in the UK and using XMLTV guide import from XML extracted from the Radio Times website. None of my recorded TV Shows are getting tagged with series and episode numbers, but as far as I can tell JRiver is supposed to import season and episode numbers.

The episode numbers in the XML file look like this:
<episode-num system="xmltv_ns">19.0/6.</episode-num>

Is this numbering system supported?

If it is, does anyone have any suggestions on how I should try to troubleshoot my problem?
If not, can we get it supported and does anyone know of any workarounds?

Many thanks!
David

[imugli]

The <episode-num> tag is certainly a standard XMLTV field, however the difficulty for MC may be that the actual content of that field is not always uniform, and therefore importing it really isn't viable (I don't know, I'll have to check when I'm near my HTPC).

Your episode-num field looks like

<episode-num system="xmltv_ns">19.0/6.</episode-num>

however others (from wikipedia) may look like

<episode-num system="dd_progid">EP00337003.2361</episode-num>

How does JRiver determine which it is and allocate the information to the appropriate fields?

As I say, I don't know that this is the actual answer - I'm just throwing it out there as a possibility.

[dturrall]

Hi imugli,

Thanks for getting back to me.

What I'd first like to establish is what systems are supported for episode-num by MC. Maybe xmltv_ns *is* supported, but maybe there's a bug in the implementation or a problem with my specific XML files?

On the web at this location I found what appears to be a definition for XMLTV (I have no idea if they are an authority on the subject):
http://xmltv.cvs.sourceforge.net/xmltv/xmltv/xmltv.dtd?view=markup

Starting around row 354 I found the following:
"There are two predefined numbering systems, 'xmltv_ns' and 'onscreen'."
"xmltv_ns: This is intended to be a general way to number episodes and
 parts of multi-part episodes.  It is three numbers separated by dots,
 the first is the series or season, the second the episode number
 within that series, and the third the part number..." <etc>

So the xmltv_ns system is well defined if it needs to be added.

What do I need to do to find out if I have discovered a bug (it should work, but doesn't) or a feature that I need to request (a missing episode numbering system)?

Many thanks again,
David

P.S. It's strange that the example system you gave dd_progid is not in the spec; I found some discussion on the subject here: http://forums.digiguide.tv/topic.asp?id=13044&whichpage=8&pagesize=15

[Matt]

Would you be willing to send an XMLTV file that uses xmltv_ns to yaobing (at) jriver (dot) com?

Please include a link to this thread.

Thanks for your help.

[dturrall]

Hi Matt - thanks - I've emailed some files. Let me know if you don't see an email from me. Cheers, David

[Yaobing]

I got your email.  Thanks.

Currently, we only use episode data if system="onscreen".  That explains why episode number is not tagged in your recordings.  We will need to figure out how to use other formats, xmltv_ns or dd_progid.

[dturrall]

Hi Yaobing.

Thanks for getting back to me - at least it's obvious what the problem is now.

xmltv_ns appears to be part of the standard XMLTV spec and is well defined in the link that I included above, so (selfishly?!) I hope that it will be easy to support.

dd_progid looks a bit ugly. It seems to be a reference which you'd then need to look up against some kind of web service. It looks much harder to support this, and it doesn't seem to be part of the XMLTV spec anyway.

I found the following references to dd_progid which may help...
http://forums.schedulesdirect.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=575
TMS seem to be responsible for the data:
http://www.tribunemediaservices.com/

In at least one example (below), system="onscreen" is also used so you'd already be bringing something through, even though it doesn't make much sense in this specific example.
http://forums.digiguide.tv/topic.asp?id=13044&whichpage=8&pagesize=15

I wonder if any other readers of this topic with more of an interest in dd_progid will be able to find any better documentation?

Thanks again for your help!

David

[imugli]

I've just had a look at my xml file and it also uses xmltv-ns.

[dturrall]

Hi all,

To work around the current lack of "xmltv_ns" support, I plan to try and process the XML myself into a format that the current version of JRiver will accept. In other words, I will convert the "xmltv_ns" tags into "onscreen".

Can anyone tell me what format JRiver expects or can parse for the "onscreen" format, or alternatively post an example of an "onscreen" string from an XML which is known to import correctly into JRiver with season/episode numbers?

Thanks!
David

[Yaobing]

For the "onscreen" system, we just take whatever string that is present in xml file and save the string in Episode tag.

[dturrall]

Ah, ok!

So, I wrote a bit of (clumsy) Visual Basic to convert the xmltv_ns into an onscreen string before the XML file gets to JRiver. Now recorded shows have values in Episode like "S1E5" indicating the season and episode numbers. It seems like JRiver doesn't the same kind of clever stuff on XMLTV files that it does when importing files off the disk.

Is there any way that I can invoke some clever JRiver logic to fill the season and episode fields and download the appropriate metadata from the internet?

Thanks!
David

[dturrall]

For those of you interested in what I have done in Visual Basic (mentioned above), here it is. I ought to say that my knowledge of VB is from VBA in MS Access 2003. I downloaded Visual Studio specifically for this and it all looks completely alien to me! A load of stuff has changed so I was a bit lost. Also, no doubt there's a nice function for dealing with XML files, but I did not look for it - I just used some string functions that I'm familiar with.

What does it do?
It converts xmltv_ns style to the onscreen format in an XMLTV file. The onscreen output looks like 'S1E5' or 'S1E-' or 'S-E5' (if only season or episode is listed). My file did not contain any examples of where the part is specified, but if the part is present it should produce strings like 'S1E5 Part 1'. The xmltv_ns format allows you to specify how many seasons, episodes or parts there are in total, but I just drop this information.

So what?
Now JRiver shows the output string in the Episode tag for my recorded TV. It's not interpreted by JRiver in an automatic way, but I am finding this quite fast to do manually once I can see the data in JRiver. Previously I had no idea what season and episode recordings belonged to, so I consider this a step forward!

Warnings:

• DON'T ATTEMPT TO USE THIS UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING! I have cobbled this together with an absolute minimum amount of knowledge, and there's a risk of unforeseen bad things happening.
• The code might accidentally delete files
• The code might cause invalid XML to be imported into JRiver that causes you to miss recordings or possibly lose your existing recording schedules in JRiver.
• This works on my XML files, but I would not be particularly surprised if it does not work on yours.
• It's quite slow at writing out the XML (although I am not finding this a problem)
• File names are hard coded into it, so you need to manually change the code to choose which filenames are used.
• I manually examined the input and output files before feeding them to JRiver. Backup your library before proceeding!

How to get to the same position as me:

• Download Visual Studio from Microsoft - it's free for personal use
• Make a console application
• Use the code that I've attached to this post
• Change the values for SourceFile and DestinationFile. SourceFile should be the path of the file that comes out of your XML file grabber. DestinationFile should be a file path for the new converted XML file that JRiver will import. WARNING: DestinationFile will be erased when the program runs.
• You may need to adjust StartString and EndString to match the exact format of your XML file (because I haven't written this 'properly')
• 'Build' an executable program out of it
• Copy your executable program to a sensible location
• Create a batch file that first runs your XML grabber and then runs the executable file that you've just made
• DEFINITELY BACKUP YOUR JRiver LIBRARY, AND CONSIDER BACKING UP YOUR COMPUTER
• Change the XMLTV settings in JRiver to run the batch file instead of the XML grabber, and point it to the XML that will come out of the Visual Basic
• Test to see if you like the results

I hope that this helps someone! :-)

[muzicman0]

I know this is an old topic, but I am curious is any more stuff has been done on getting the season/episode info from XMLTV files...I am looking at switching to it, and if I was able to import this info automatically (or mostly automatically), that would be a deal clincher for me!

The XMLTV file that I was looking at using has the following:

   <programme start="20140923210000 -0700" stop="20140923220000 -0700" channel="I103096.labs.zap2it.com">
      <title lang="en">Marvel&apos;s Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.</title>
      <sub-title lang="en">Shadows</sub-title>
      <desc lang="en">Even as wanted fugitives with limited resources, the team continues to work to keep the world safe.</desc>
      <date>20140923</date>
      <category lang="en">Drama</category>
      <length units="minutes">60</length>
      <episode-num system="common">S02E01</episode-num>
      <episode-num system="dd_progid">EP01739244.0026</episode-num>
      <new />
   </programme>

Is there anyway to import either of the episode-num systems when recording TV, and naming the file appropriately?

[RoderickGI]

I know this is an old topic, but I am curious is any more stuff has been done on getting the season/episode info from XMLTV files...

Yes. I am just a user, but I have been working through the issues for my setup for a while. I am about to document my needs to import the xmltv_ns Season and Episode numbers into the correct fields in MC. I hope to do so later today.

Yaobing has been very helpful in making some changes to MC that have helped greatly.

Take a look at my other posts in the TV Cards and TV forum, and keep a look out for a new one. It will be prefixed with [EPG].

If I may ask, what is your EPG data source?

I haven't seen the "common" system used anywhere before, and would be very interested to know if it is part of a standard somewhere, or is just produced by a particular application. It certainly isn't part of the XMLTV Standard definition. The format is commonly used in torrents and such though.

The "dd_progid" system is a little more problematic. It also is not part of the XMLTV Standard definition, and I think it is aimed at providing a series identifier for series recording, and is a proprietary format that can't easily be decoded. I haven't researched it much though, as MC can't use either series identifier or program ID numbers anyway.

Can you EPG data source output "xmltv_ns" numbers? If so, add your voice to my post when you see it.

[muzicman0]

The EPG data source that I posted was from Zap2it, using zap2xml program...however, I don't mind spending the $20 per year on schedules direct, if it will populate that season and episode info.  Schedules Direct has the OnScreen format, as well as the dd_progid. 

If the OnScreen format actually tagged the correct fields (Season and Episode), then it would be a no brainer, and I would just spend the $20...but it sounds like it puts the whole thing in the episode field, which means I still have to manually enter the data.

I will chime in on your post once I see it!

[RoderickGI]

Ah, I should have seen that in your XML header.

The dd_progid format is specific to TMS, the owners of zap2it. It seems that the episode-num "common" tag is an invention of the author of zap2xml, as of April this year: http://zap2xml.awardspace.info/

Yep, the onscreen format currently just gets put into the Episode field in MC, and is therefore of no use in automating the collection of TV program metadata. Its format is also basically "whatever is put in the credits", so it could be anything, and therefore impossible to automatically decode.

I'm putting my money on the xmltv_ns format, which is well defined and can be reliably decoded, as long as the source data is clean. Maybe either zap2xml or Schedules Direct could output the xmltv_ns format, if the owners were asked nicely? Certainly is zap2xml can output their "common" format, they could output xmltv_ns. The only trick to it is that it starts counting from zero instead of one, so the 7th Episode of the 4th Season, when made as a one part episode would be "3.6.0/1". A bit silly, but not so bad.

[RoderickGI]

As per http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=92121.msg634556#msg634556, I emailed the author of Zap2xml, asking if (s)he would add Season and Episode numbers in the xmltv_ns format to the output file. (S)He agreed and will add the xmltv_ns tag for the next version.

There were no promises as to when the next version would be released, but there have been six releases so far this year, in April and May, so there is a good chance it won't be too long. Maybe. Prior to the updates this year the last new releases were in 2008 and 2007.

But, a positive step. One more application supporting the XMLTV standard format Season and Episode Numbering System.

[rudyrednose]

Good news !

I also requested support for xmltv_ns from the developper of zap2xml.exe.
As of today, the latest version supports it !     Thank you John !
available here: http://zap2xml.awardspace.info/

Here is the entry of a Seinfeld episode in a xmltv.xml file generated by zap2xml.exe from the zap2it.com web site:
(season, episode and optional part number for multipart episodes are indexed from 0, so "1.9." corresponds to season 2 episode 10 and no multi-part)

<programme start="20140930220000 -0400" stop="20140930223000 -0400" channel="I533934.labs.zap2it.com">
      <title lang="en">Seinfeld</title>
      <sub-title lang="en">The Baby Shower</sub-title>
      <desc lang="en">Jerry&apos;s cable TV installer shows up on the day Elaine is using his apartment for a baby shower.</desc>
      <category lang="en">Comedy</category>
      <length units="minutes">30</length>
      <episode-num system="common">S02E10</episode-num>
      <episode-num system="dd_progid">EP00016916.0020</episode-num>
      <episode-num system="xmltv_ns">1.9.</episode-num>
      <previously-shown />
</programme>


Great !  We're getting there 

[RoderickGI]

That's not good news, that's Great News !!!

I didn't expect that to happen so quickly. But it is brilliant. He has the numbering correct, as "The Baby Shower" is indeed Episode 10 in Season 2. He has the second dot, which is required. It would be nice if he did what EPG Collector does and always put in a Part Number, even when there is only one part, but it isn't required by the standard. i.e.
<episode-num system="xmltv_ns">1.9.0/1</episode-num>

Also some systems put a leading and trailing space in around the numbers, as some systems need it to import correctly. But EPG Collector doesn't, so MC should be written to handle with or without space padding.

Once we are to able to import into MC, we will see how it goes. Or MC will need to be able to handle the variations in format between EPG Collector, zap2xml, and other sources using xmltv_ns numbering.

By the way, where did you find the developer's name, John? He didn't include it in the email he sent me, and I couldn't find any info on the developer anywhere. Not that it matters, as long as he lives for ever and keeps updating it!  

[JimH]

On this page, he accepts Paypal:
http://zap2xml.awardspace.info/

[RoderickGI]

On this page, he accepts Paypal:
http://zap2xml.awardspace.info/

Now that he has delivered what I asked for, I might just give him a little tip. Even though I won't personally be using it, I did ask for it.  

Good to see you are looking after the creative people out there Jim.

EDIT: Done.

[JimH]

Thanks.  JRiver sent some, too.

[rudyrednose]

On this page, he accepts Paypal:
http://zap2xml.awardspace.info/

I would have felt wrong to ask for an improvement to a free program I have used for a while before making a donation  
Nice of you to bring it up though, Jim.

[rudyrednose]

By the way, where did you find the developer's name, John?

From the Paypal payment receipt 

[RoderickGI]

From the Paypal payment receipt 

Ah yes. I hadn't looked at the receipt yet. I just looked during the transaction and he wasn't mentioned.

Oh, and I always ask for stuff before I pay for it. 

I have found that asking the folk who develop and maintain "free" software gets really good results, and in the case of zap2xml and EPG Collector, really fast results as well. Very happy. 

[Yaobing]

Build 21 is out.  Season number and episode number are imported if available.  "part#/# of parts", "# of seasons", and "# of episodes" are ignored, at least for now.

[rudyrednose]

Thank you so much Yaobing !  
This works well from zap2it.com-->zap2xml.exe

I finally have a fully automated guide with correct season and episode on ATSC OTA, really happy about it all !

I suppose the delay in offering "part#/# of parts" et al is due to the low number of samples available for validation ?

Did I say thank you ?   

'nose

[RoderickGI]

Thanks Yaobing.

I have upgraded and I'm just testing now. Will let you know how it goes.
 

[muzicman0]

What am I doing wrong? I verified the info is in the xmltv file, but I just get 2014 in the season field, nothing else...

[RoderickGI]

What am I doing wrong? I verified the info is in the xmltv file, but I just get 2014 in the season field, nothing else...

I am getting the Season and Episode numbers in correctly. My EPG file from EPG Collector formats the field with spaces, like this;

    <episode-num system="xmltv_ns">3 . 2 . 0/1</episode-num>

Does your zap2xml have spaces like that? It may make a difference. Also, some programs only have the year as the Season number. It all depends on the data.

Search you XMLTV files for "<episode-num system="xmltv_ns">" to find examples of programs that should have numbers to import.

Note that in checking what is being imported I have found a serious problem with the MC EPG import process. I think I saw examples of it before these latest changes, so I will start another thread about it, with examples, tomorrow hopefully. Out of time now.

[rudyrednose]

muzicman0, I saw from your previous post that like me your EPG source is zap2it.com.  You need to run the latest version of both zap2xml.exe and MC20 (v21) ...
Download the latest zap2xml.exe (released october 1rst) : http://zap2xml.awardspace.info/

In my case, as we also listen to french language broadcasts (we get both Quebec and Vermont broadcasts), I use the -U and -o options on the zap2xml arguments in MC.
-U because of accented characters.
-o to specify the output path so MC retrieves the xmltv.xml file.


RoderickGI, you got me curious on the serious problem you encountered.  My EPG now seems A-OK !

[muzicman0]

muzicman0, I saw from your previous post that like me your EPG source is zap2it.com.  You need to run the latest version of both zap2xml.exe and MC20 (v21) ...
Download the latest zap2xml.exe (released october 1rst) : http://zap2xml.awardspace.info/

In my case, as we also listen to french language broadcasts (we get both Quebec and Vermont broadcasts), I use the -U and -o options on the zap2xml arguments in MC.
-U because of accented characters.
-o to specify the output path so MC retrieves the xmltv.xml file.


RoderickGI, you got me curious on the serious problem you encountered.  My EPG now seems A-OK !

Yes, I am trying zap2xml...I downloaded the latest version, and the info is in the xmltv file.  At first I was using build 20, but then remembered I hadn't upgraded yet, so I upgraded to build 21, but it still had the same result.  I must be doing something wrong.  I am only using the -Z and -Y arguments.

I also notice that Zap2It is missing a lot of info on program descriptions...so my question is, will the onscreen format also work with this?  I can use Schedules Direct if so.

[muzicman0]

here is an example of the XMLTV file...this was an episode of Castle last night, which only populated 2014 in the Season field.

   <programme start="20141006220100 -0700" stop="20141006230000 -0700" channel="I103096.labs.zap2it.com">
      <title lang="en">Castle</title>
      <sub-title lang="en">Montreal</sub-title>
      <date>20141006</date>
      <category lang="en">Comedy</category>
      <category lang="en">Drama</category>
      <length units="minutes">59</length>
      <episode-num system="common">S07E02</episode-num>
      <episode-num system="dd_progid">EP01085588.0133</episode-num>
      <episode-num system="xmltv_ns">6.1.</episode-num>
      <new />
   </programme>

[Yaobing]

Could it be that you already have some of the programs that you previously loaded?  How about doing a "Clear program guide" and reload everything new?

[muzicman0]

sure, I can try that...I didn't do a clear guide prior to it, however, I did confirm that the descriptions of the programs matched the new XML.

[rudyrednose]

zap2it.com is not always fully populated for every program.  For instance, french translations of Castle provides nothing, only title and episode description...  Have a look at the web site and compare.
However, your example does have the right <episode-num system="xmltv_ns">6.1.</episode-num> which means season 7 episode 2 (indexed from 0).

I think Yaobing is right, you need to "flush the cache"

[muzicman0]

I think that fixed it.  I also noticed that I had to specify the path for the xmltv.xml path for zap2xml, as the old file wasn't being over written, so I'm guessing it was being written to some other location. 

At any rate, now when I choose a program from the guide, it shows the season and episode #...thanks for the help!

[RoderickGI]

RoderickGI, you got me curious on the serious problem you encountered.  My EPG now seems A-OK !

I've just finished preparing screenshots and sample data. I will post a new thread soon.

See thread over here: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=92426.0