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Author Topic: MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination  (Read 8741 times)

PeterS

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MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« on: February 13, 2002, 07:14:24 am »

We need your help. It's our mission to make MJ the best (and most popular) jukebox in the world, and we'd like to leave no stone unturned.
So, we are asking for input from users like you, from every corner of the globe, to help us raise the profile of the software and boost downloads. We won't resort to dubious marketing practices to push MJ.

You can help by giving us the benefit of your experience and knowledge.

For instance:
--Are there important Web sites out there where we are not listed? Where do you go to get your software? Perhaps we have missed some key sites in Europe and Asia and other places.
--Any forums out there that we should participate in? MJ user participation in some forums has already helped convert some folks out there to the MJ way. We encourage this as a way of educating people about what MJ has to offer.
--Any other "off the wall" ideas to promote MJ? Are you willing to paint your car with the MJ logo and drive to Tierra del Fuego and back? Would you put an MJ bumper sticker on your vehicle?

One of my suggestions was for us to sponsor my favorite soccer team (Nottingham Forest F.C.), but JimH wasn't too keen on that idea! Next I am going to see if he is willing to sponsor my icefishing house--it would look great with an MJ logo emblazoned across the side.

Peter in MJ Marketing
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JimH

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2002, 07:25:13 am »

I already told Peter we'd buy the paint for the fish house.  He's holding out for more, I think.
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Jim Hillegass
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Cmagic

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2002, 07:33:14 am »

PeterS,
Why not sponsor a soccer Team ? That would change from (american) football, Scronch ? Next Page

More seriously, if you plan on spreading MJ around the world, you might
think of localizing the software. I know this would mean a lot of work
but with the help of some users who knows ?
Why not associate MJ with some popular Music event like some summer jazz festival (plenty of them in Europe). Or even with "La fête de la Musique"
each 21st of June a very popular All genre musical event.
Or maybe with a Music radio station, well I don't know. For me MJ fits nicely with some keywords like :  music, fun, friendship...

Will think about it. In the meantime my wife is expecting me at home...

Bonne soirée.
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Doof

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2002, 07:51:07 am »

One thing that I can think of is to get MJ bundled with stuff. CD-RW (I realize that's happened in at least one case), supported handheld MP3 players, new systems, etc.

Boxed retail versions... I realize this costs more money than standard web sales, but if Joe User is at Best Buy or Staples looking for a media player application, they're currently given the choice of either Siren Jukebox & Music Match. And since Sonic Foundry is discontinuing Siren, Music Match will be uncontested in this area.

And I hate to say this... but eye candy sells. I think you really need to start pushing the mini-me skins out there, and even look into "prettying-up" the MEGA-ME interface. Don't change the layout or anything. Just the graphical components of it. Cleaner icons, toolbar buttons, etc. I wouldn't call the current interface "dowdy", but it's admittedly not as pretty as some of the other jukeboxes out there. And unfortunately, that's what's important to some people. Like CNet. And while we all could probably care less about what CNet has to say, a lot of potential users out there probably do.

I also think that user-friendliness should be looked at. MJ is, by far, the most powerful jukebox application out there. Unfortunately, some of it's most powerful features are also its most un-intuitive. For instance, Smartlist rules. The Add Rule/Add Keyword buttons are great, but sometimes I wonder if the syntax is either not well documented (I realize we're still waiting for a help file) or if it just gets in the way.

We've seen evidence in here that people are downloading MJ, trying it out, and then giving up on it, only to wind up loving it once somebody in here sets them straight about how to do certain things.


And somehow, you need to start advertising Interact and your attention to your users, because those are the two best features of MJ. If everybody knew how responsive you guys were to suggestions and problems, that would be a big selling point in itself.
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Harry The Hipster

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2002, 09:32:01 am »

Walter Mossberg in the WSJ always refers to M/Match and Real Jukebox (do you kiss your mother with a mouth like that?) when giving examples of media jukeboxes to the great unwashed. Get him to talk aboutMJ too - he's widely read and quite influential.

I've written to him on several occasions, but a push from JRiver would mean much more.

Doof is right about the Help file and making certain functions more intuitive or understandable. Some of the documentation assumes a degree of sophistication that I for one don't have, or didn't when I got started. For all of the usual reasons, I stick with it and puzzle it out, with help from those who know what's going on, but some people don't or can't.

My guess is that MJ is perceived as a boutique product, tremendously attractive to those who can master it but a steep climb for those who are neophytes. Presumably, you want to move out of that narrow corner, and if so, you need to engage people right off the bat. Figure out what the priority functionalities are, and find a way to explain how to use them in vernacular. This is intended to be constructive, and I hope you take it that way.

I think you're smart in reaching out to audophiles, who come at things from a different angle. MJ has tremendous potential for the convergence of computers and various entertainment devices. If I ever decide to migrate to a Harman-Kardon/ZapMedia stand-alone home entertainment cetner, not linked to the computer, I want MJ available as my on (TV)-screen program. That won't happen unless there's demand from the natural audience for the technology, which goes well beyond many of us in the current user base.

Hope this helps. Keep on doing what you're doing. I just e-mailed a musician-client, telling him all about MJ and encouraging him to jump in.

HTH
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zevele1

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2002, 10:24:45 am »

Version in other languages.I do not know wich ones.Places with a largeonline population,
languages who are in use in many country-spanish,french
MediaJukebox is not so easy to use when you want to use the fonctions not in others jukebox.And not every one can deal with english.And the look is .......A need for some colors,some skins on Mega i mean
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JimH

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2002, 10:32:28 am »

While we always like to have product improvement suggestions, what we're asking for here is a little different.  Assuming we have a pretty good product, can you think of ways we can get the word out better.

Hardware manufacturers are an obvious one and we've had some success there, but we're looking for ways to attract and keep Winamp or Sonique users as they outgrow a simple player.
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Jim Hillegass
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Doof

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2002, 10:49:05 am »

JimH> We had had an email conversation about this a while back when you were looking into aquiring the Sonique source code.

We had discussed an "MJ Lite". My thought was to leave out CD ripping, burning, handhelds, etc. and to just create a free version player/organizer w/skins and visuals. It could act as a go between for simple media players like Sonique and full blown jukeboxes like MJ.

Not sure how doable something like that would be, but if it could pull some people away from Winamp & Sonique, the people who have a really large library and are feeling that the simpler players aren't cutting it anymore, but also aren't ready to commit to a jukebox. And then when they are, they'll stick with the interface they know.



But other than that, I'm not sure if it's a matter of attracting new people, or keeping the ones that have been attracted. And that's where my learning curve/useability comments stem from.
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cjdshaw

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2002, 02:26:27 pm »

Doof > We had discussed an "MJ Lite". My thought was to leave out CD ripping

I think leaving out ripping is a bad idea. Everyone's got a CD-ROM and some CD's whereas not everyone's into p2p file sharing etc. If people have to use WMP to rip CD's, they may stay there to play them. Also, leaving in ripping would put it on a level with Apple's iTunes, which many people may have experience with.

If you're aiming for the audiophile and home cinema market, you could try to get mentions on Remote" target="_blank">http://www.remotecentral.com]Remote Central and Home" target="_blank">http://www.homecinemachoice.com]Home Cinema Choice. Lot's of technically savvy audio/video lovers there.
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KingSparta

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2002, 02:41:25 pm »

I think any file encoded by MJ should have "MediaJukebox.Com" Or "Encoded By Media JukeBox" in the comment field

if you own the Pluss version this could be configured like "Encoded By Billy Bob"
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grshakes

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2002, 02:43:48 pm »

In response to the help file, I have to say I downloaded MJ last year, read the help file, got totally confused and went straight back to MusicMatch. For a beginner the help file is way too advanced. I read things on this forum last week and decided all you guys must see something in it and decided to try again. I have now been using it for a couple of days and, although still confused, I am determined to stick it out. Have already had some help tonight through these forums which are terrific. I know a few people who have done the same as me and gone back to Musicmatch etc. which is a real shame because now I can see light at the end of the tunnel! Help files for the clueless and computer illiterate would be a real benefit.
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KingSparta

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2002, 02:57:23 pm »

shakes

I remember when I first got my first floppy drive (5 1\4) and got so mad I went back to my tape drive it may have taken 30|PLS| mins to load a 9k program but I was comfortable with it.

it was not my best choice
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KingSparta

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2002, 03:07:28 pm »

if i remember correctly JimH was talking about making a Picture viewer

links between sites if this product ever comes out may help.

if anyone that comes here has a web site could put your MJ link, like i have on mine may help
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LCtheDJ

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2002, 03:28:00 pm »

I first found out about MJ when I saw mention of it on the DFX download page.  So my suggestion would be to get it seen where people are seeing other players.

Off topic: I like the idea of a Lite Version.  I use other programs for ripping, encoding, and burning. I use MJ for its combination of database and playing.
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Deathrider

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2002, 04:14:55 pm »

How bout this simple idea. Bumper stickers that say things like " MP3's powered by Media Juke Box". or "have you seen your music library lately"  or " Media juke box, it's not rocket sience but it sounds like it"

Then place a link on this site so that your regular users can place an order for one each and they can put it on there cars.

Robert Long
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KingSparta

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2002, 04:19:42 pm »

I would love to buy some media jukebox Mouse Pads
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Severian

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2002, 04:23:11 pm »

Couple of thoughts to add, and votes for the above:

1) Get your bad self listed as one of those annoying ads that pop up in Morpheus. Since you're in some sense a competitor to Morpheus, that's probably a hard sell, but no doubt people who are into MP3s are using that program a LOT and the airtime of ads that it vomits is pretty high. Other efforts in similar directions like LimeWire or other file-sharers would probably pay big dividends.

2) Check out up and comers like mp3newswire.net. I go to places like this for info because theirs seems to be more up to date than the rest of the spooge out there.

3) The car-stereo-that-plays-MP3 business is seriously taking off. This is one of my primary motivations for ripping my CD collection and investing the time, $, and effort into MJ. This year's generation of products is probably, by sheer number of models that are coming, up about 300% from last year. Ford, I think, is even offering a factory model that plays MP3. These facts suggest a number of avenues to explore:
--See about bundling MJ with a car stereo.
--Put ads on car stereo sites like Kenwood and Pioneer, et al.
--Investigate partnering up with car stereo installers for some kind of a deal to bundle MJ or a discount for it with an installation or a purchase or something like that. Vague, I know, but that's the point of purchase for this kind of hardware and there's probably an inside track there to be found somewhere. Here in Portland there's a boatload of mom & pop car stereo shops that compete with the giants. The same is not true of other types of retail business. If more car manufacturers are going to offer factory models, maybe even DEALERSHIPS are legitimate targets for your efforts. Sounds silly on the face of it, but just thinking outside the box.
--The sites that review car stereos are also targets for ads. There's a site I go to called highwayMP3.com that's strictly amateur hour, but people who are looking for info about this kind of thing are there surfing it and reading their forums. I'm sure they'd fall all over themselves for an ad banner from you.

Doof is right about the retail thing. Retail is a dirty filthy awful nasty business, for sure, but the fact of having a physical presence there is huge for consumer perception. Physical ownership is hardwired into the human psyche. When a retail box is seen in a retail store, the perception is that you're solid enough to be able to accomplish that, and your product must similarly be solid by association. The collective consciousness hasn't shifted far enough yet so that the masses understand their product is equally good and possibly cheaper via download-only. Getting a retail presence might end up being a Pyrrhic victory for you, but may be worth at least examining.

Doof is, at the risk of being annihilated by loyalist fanatics, also right about the interface. I think Sonique demonstrates that it's possible to be simultaneously intuitive, highly functional, AND slicker than snot on a doorknob. Sonique is three years old and IMHO is still better looking and more innovative than just about anything else out there, for what specifically it does. I have faith that you guys can make it happen.

Along similar lines, the website and Interact also need to embody those same characteristics. The website ought to look slick like neoTropic's track info page does in the player. Graphically appealing like that.

And even further by extension, if you're going to start throwing ads around the Internet at some of these places, the ads should be just as slick. It occurs to me that a REALLY cool ad would be that if I clicked on it, I immediately started downloading MJ's trial version. Wouldn't THAT be a switch from having to wade through a bunch of garbage and filling stuff out like everybody else before the download starts. I should think you'd still be able to do this and get some useful information, yet provide that perception to the user. Like if you're hooked into .NET Passport and you're authenticated there, you go straight to the download as a user, yet you guys get the info if you want it.

No reason not to throw down the gauntlet with the ads, too. You're the Swiss Army Knife of this kind of software. More features than anybody else. Best of breed. Why not say so openly? The hell with those other weenies like MusicMatch. FIGHT! Dubious marketing practices, no. Just good old fashioned aggressive competition. All's fair in love and capitalism.

Getting bundled with a player or with a sound card would be great too. In my opinion you should just go to Creative Labs and say look, your included software BLOWS, why not fire your development team and outsource the job to us? Bundle our stuff instead! We'll make your name respectable again! And we'll have our guy Steve write your drivers so that it actually WORKS after consumers buy it!

--Severian
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Charlemagne 8

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2002, 04:56:31 pm »

We all want to see our favorite jukebox program by our favorite jukebox developers do well. If Media Jukebox were well known as a viable replacement for Musicmatch and Realplayer, it wouldn't take much of a nudge to get people away from those as most of us can vouch for. On the one hand, I say Go for it and good luck.
But on the other hand, I see that my favorite website (this one) is getting pretty crowded. One of the great things about this board is that you can actually read every post if you want to. If there are hundreds of people logged on to a message board, it becomes difficult to carry on meaningful dialog with anyone about anything. My motives are selfish ... I like the one-on-one feeling of this place. But to try to appear more unsefish, I would point out that the tight management that JimH and crew like to keep on this site would become more and more difficult with more Interactors.
This is not to say that I wouldn't lend my wholehearted support to further MJ because I would and do. If word-of-mouth is any good, I am word-of-mouthing off to everyone I know that listens to music on their computer.

CVIII
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Scronch

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2002, 05:16:36 pm »

You're already well aware of having the software bundled, with CD-RW drives, or by Dell or Gateway or others.  I think that's the best approach, but you have to gain market share to get them to bundle you in.

Skip the sports teams.  I know of a Midwestern microbrewery that could brew up an MJ ale for a small, 6-figure donation...

I'm trying to remember how I found MJ.  I think it was through Cnet or some review source like that.

I agree with the eye candy comment, even though I personally hate that garbage.

Thinking about the Gran Pan Pan experience, maybe you could come to some arrangement with a very well known artist, maybe somebody on the downhill slide, who still commands a large audience.  Maybe somehow get the rights to one song, for you to give away to anyone who installs and tries MJ.  The technical aspects would be difficult.  Even if you had an MJ-exclusive audio format, someone would convert that song to mp3 and slap it out on Morpheus or something.

Or...

[image of MJ blimp removed to improve thread loading time]

Scronch
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MmmmJoel

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2002, 06:42:11 pm »

FYI, I found Media Jukebox through the very knowledgable folks at the arstechnica.com <http://www.arstechnica.com> forums <http://arstechnica.infopop.net/>. More specifically, the A/V forum.
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Kerensky

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2002, 09:43:32 pm »

MJ has plenty of substance, but in order to draw a large number on users away from Winamp, Sonique and MusicMatch, I think you could stand to add a bit more style and flash to the Mega-me look. From my experience many people just don't want their media player to look like a standard boring windows application. This is particually true when other media players like Sonique, MusicMatch, iTunes, and even the new Windows Media Player have a spiffier looking interface. The new MJ8 mini-me skins are a good start, even though I personally think the skinning engine has a way to go (see my post at: http://www.musicex.com/cgi-bin/interact/NeoBoard.pl?Action=ShowPost&Board=inter&Post=7879&BoardIdle=7&SortingBy=0&BoardOrder=Descend&Page=4&UserSession=kerensky.10136713412743 for my suggestions.) I also agree with some of the other posters that you should maybe think of advertising MJ more. Ads on the P-P file sharing services (even though I don't agree with them), other large music sites, and audio magazines would be a good start. Anyway, keep up the good work.
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JimH

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2002, 04:26:12 am »

Advertising is appealing, but the economics don't work.  Word of mouth does.  CNET does.  MP3.com works, but is less effective than it once was.

Musicmatch has blown through something like $30 million of venture capital to establish market share, but I think they are about out of cash.  That's why you see their ads.

Winamp and Sonique are still free so they're tough to compete with.  AOL and Lycos have been willing to do this because the community of users was important, but with ad revenues down at such sites, they will feel some pressure to start charging or stop spending.

Thanks for all the great suggestions.  Keep them coming.

Jim Hillegass
JRiver
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Jim Hillegass
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noborg

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2002, 04:31:52 am »

Hi Peter,

I know you asked for input on how to get the word out about MJ, rather than input on features, etc., but I have to make a couple of comments about the software itself.  

All the publicity in the world won't lead to world domination unless the software is stable and well supported.  I'm a new user who finds the following:

 1. Documentation on distinguishing features of MJ is limited.  

 2. It's hard to get help.  Even though I paid for the product,
    there's no comprehensive list of bugs, no email address or telephone
    number for support.  One can get help from other users and occasionally from
    JRiver by using this forum, but the forum is hard to find and not always
    helpful.  

 3. The current product is buggy (I say this based on my own experience and on
    browsing "talk back"). Nevertheless, everyone seems hard at work on MJ8.  

 4. It's not clear to users how best to use the product and how the product is
    evolving.  For example, I chose MJ in large part because of categories and
    smart lists, but now I find that categories are buggy.  When I try to get
    help with that, someone tells me not to worry because categories go away in MJ8.
    Yet it's obvious that MJ8 is extremely buggy and therefore hardly an option
    for me.


I realize nobody likes to hear complaints like this.  But I pass them on because I WANT MediaJukebox to work well for me and others.  

Thanks for your attention.

js
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Doof

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2002, 05:14:10 am »

Sonique 2 isn't going to be free. At least, that's the word on the Sonique site as of now.

noborg>

1. The helpfile for 8 is currently being written by lise.

2. I agree that Interact isn't the easiest thing to find, although I think that more and more, people are learning to look for a discussion forum when they need help. The Interact menu option under help should probably be relabeled to better reflect what it is "Interact - Media Jukebox Forum" or something? IIRC, the only reason I ended up here was because I was curious about what Interact meant from having seen it in the help menu.

3. You have to pick a time when you stop development on one product and move on. With limited resources, you can't keep working on one product forever. There are a lot of problems that 7 had that 8 no longer does. Especially in the database area. 7 kept on corrupting my database, over and over. I wouldn't even commit myself to creating playlists because it was just going to be a waste in time. 8 doesn't seem to have this problem at all. And there are more like it.

4. "Extremely buggy"? There are a lot of bugs in 8, that's true. But the really biggies, the real showstoppers are mostly gone. It's only in special cases that these even show up. The rest are just little things that will be pounded out eventually. Have you even tried it on your system? How do you know it's not an option for you until you try? It runs great on my system. Maybe it will on yours too. Categories being removed is not that big of a deal. They were never anything more than playlists under a different name. So rather than a category called "80's" you have a playlist called "80's". The only difference is that there's less clutter. And if you really want to find "80's" under something called Categories, then you just create a Playlist Group called Categories, and put all of your former categories in there.
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Cmagic

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2002, 06:25:49 am »

Out of curiosity I made a little google search for web pages that contain the words
Mediajukebox, winamp, musicmatch, sonique. I made this search in different languages.

here is my results :

#web pages found
----------------------------------------------------
language. Mediajukebox Winamp . Musicmatch Sonique
----------------------------------------------------
All...... 887 ........ 541000 . 76300 .... 74800
English.. 352 ........ 351000 . 43900 .... 50800
German... 22 ......... 40200 .. 4280 ..... 2740
French... 12 ......... 39500 .. 2060 ..... 4410
Spanish.. 125 ........ 32400 .. 2880 ..... 4590
Italian.. 16 ......... 10900 .. 1270 ..... 1840
Portuges. 12 ......... 26300 .. 1540 ..... 2970
Chinese.. 82 ......... 51800 .. 2830 ..... 2410
----------------------------------------------------


All this has to be interpreted with care but it shows that there is a lot of work ahead
in order for MJ to dominate the world !

(I used http://www.google.com with advanced search options)
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Chico

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2002, 08:16:21 am »

Sorry, I got to this thread late, but, Jim...

>...but we're looking for ways to attract and keep Winamp or Sonique users as they outgrow a simple player.

I still use Sonique (v1) when I want to watch great visual effects while listenning to tunes.  That probably won't change antime soon as Sonique is small and still has the greatest visuals out there.  Also, MJ's visuals are very hard to get to play smoothly on my machine (I'm not blessed with a 1|PLS| GHz system with 512 meg of RAM).  It would be nice if MJ could play .svf files.
So... you have attracted at least one Sonique user with the awsome power of MJ, but he hasn't outgrown Sonique, either.

I agree that word of mouth is probably one of the least expensive and most effective tools.  I had never heard of MJ until Jim came to Sonique with inquiries about purchasing the little jewel.  Since then, I have used MJ for everything except visuals and have encouraged other users to try it (hope some listenned).  As mentionned above, you are not going to get the users who aren't interested in a full blown, do everything program when they only want to listen to the MP3s they were able to get from Napster, AG, and Morpheous, and watch cool visuals (Most of the "younger" users will not pay for any programs if they don't absolutely have to since there's so many free-bees and warez proggy's out there.).  So a MJ Lite proggy may be able to sway them this way and entice them to buy the bigger better retail version.

On the humorous side...
Start a chain e-mail that tells of what wonderful things will happen to the users if they down load MJ and all the bad things that will happen to them if they don't forward the e-mail to at least ten people.  Next Page
Or.. hire a hacker to write a virus that maliciously sets the MJ Home page as the users IE start page? Next Page
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KingSparta

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2002, 08:37:18 am »

what i wonder is what does it take to get a Media Jukebox Demo CD In a box that a customer buys, and or a new computer

I would think that would be the best way
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JimH

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2002, 08:50:45 am »

King,
You might think so, but ...  The problems are these.  It takes a lot of time to find the right person to talk to.  They have a lot of people calling them for this purpose so they have their defense shields activated.  And the worst problem is that the economics don't work.  About 1 to 2% of shareware programs get paid for, and that's if the customer downloaded it.  If it comes as one of 10 in a box with a new PC, they aren't very likely to look at it.  The odds aren't good.
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Jim Hillegass
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KingSparta

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2002, 09:05:00 am »

JimH

I see, i would think if it was included your chances would be higher, then from a download site.

I did check cddb, and i see your listed (along with others).
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KingSparta

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2002, 09:14:16 am »

I was thinking that if all the people who use mj, take there beer bottles and put a note in it to download MJ and throw it in the water that might help.

1. little or no expence,  bottles are bought every day
2. a slip of paper is really cheep .0001 cents per

Green Peace may get mad however

or

[image of Spam can deleted in the interest of loading time for the thread]
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Scronch

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2002, 09:26:12 am »

King, you used to use the img statement.  Lately, something has changed.  You just put in the url, starting with http.  If it is an image, it gets posted.  If not, it becomes a link.
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John C

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #31 on: February 14, 2002, 09:45:48 am »

Why don't you send a copy of the program to Computer Magazines, in the USA and here in the UK. I am fed up with seeing articles about MP3 and they then talk about MMJB and Winamp with no mention of MJ. I read a readers letter recently about another product not getting mentioned, and the reply from the magazine was 'If we don't receive programs to add to our testing base then we can't be expected to comment on them'  So as I stated, send them all a copy of this great program. I can supply you with the names and addresses of the top mags in the UK if you require.

John
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Ilmar

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #32 on: February 14, 2002, 11:48:29 am »

Hi

I thought I would drop my tuppence in the pot

About 2 years ago I was Tech Dir for a US Manufacturer in Europe and looking for bundled software for hi volume PC sales.

I contacted my two favourites at the time, and they didn't want to know. Bundling was seen as devaluing software.

If you did Bundle, either dumb down the Mega ME interface or limit the features.  Better still, have a Midi ME for first time users, children or just those who want a simple interface!

MJ seems to be a bit daunting for first time users. Also, for a bundled version, you could afford to extend the trial period to 90 days, by which time it will be indispensible. I know you guys have to make a buck, but 30 days does not let it get under the average user's skin. Hell, I haven't even explored half the stuff it does, and I bought an early V7, and with the few cents you get from hardware vendors you can afford to stretch the trial.
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PeterS

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2002, 05:58:08 am »

Marvellous response from everybody to this thread. This is excellent feedback and, believe me, we do acknowledge each and every suggestion and comment. Please keep your ideas flowing--we already have some action items as a result. For those who have suggested magazine or Websites to target, please send details to me directly at peter @ jriver.com. Any Japanese or Korean users out there who would like to help out?
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IQ10

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2002, 06:45:20 am »

Well here is an off the wall idea.  I believe some have enjoyed the process of 'customizing' MJ.  Skins, Track Info, dual language lyrics, remote control, car installations, auto scheduling, automobile integration.

I am an old Amateur Radio and Computer Bit Toggler, having enjoyed the process of putting together old Eico rigs, MITS and IMSAI and HAL computers.  A computer that can execute over a million instructions per second should never have to display an hour-glass.  Ever think who wrote, and what are those millions of instructions, during the time an hour-glass displays during boot, or any other time?  Yea, I know there are mechanical things going on, like disk spin up.  But $50 buys millions of bytes of non-volatile flash.  Imagine a light bulb that attempted to chastise the consumer that he did not turned it off properly, and reqired 30 or more seconds to become functional.

The concept of SOFTWARE was and is revolutionary.  The idea was that HARDWARE could first be manufactured, in a generic fashion, and later its function could be softly determined, with little additional expense.  Determined again and again.  Iterated, improved, redone.  A tableau blanc.  Sight, sound, touch connected is a soft manner, after the hardware is created.  An architecture that could last forever without re-manufacture.

Well, clearly, that promise has been somehow lost.  Sabotaged.  Thwarted.  Appropriated.

So here is the idea.  Turn MJB into more than a canned jukebox.  Turn it into a kit.  Support it with source code and documentation.  A kit which instructs, enables, and encourages the willling user to take control of his tableau blanc hardware.  An MJB Kit that can be used to create sights and sounds and interactions according to the whim and willingness of the user to conceive and specify these.

And the he awoke from his dream.

[former member]
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Doof

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2002, 07:17:12 am »

And narrow MJ's niche even further.
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iand

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #36 on: February 15, 2002, 07:29:50 am »

I work for a UK computer mag (don't worry: I'll be mentioning Media Jukebox next issue. It's a great product). This is how unknown software developers get coverage from me.

1. Email me personally. Don't send me a newsletter. I will delete it.
2. Phone me. This is very, very effective but *only* if it's very directly relevant to the remit of my title. Otherwise, I'll be annoyed and perhaps never cover you, even if the chance comes up.
3. Send me a CD. Get this printed professionally and put it in a nice jewel case or DVD case. If it arrives on some generic CD-R disk, I won't take you very seriously. Make it the full copy - we're used to getting anything we want for free - if someone sends a demo (a) it makes them look cheap (b) if I don't know what it is, the chances are I won't even try it out.
4. Does the mag do a coverdisk? If so, they're normally mad for anything to put on it. So send a clearly marked demo and a document giving distribution permission as well. Test this very carefully so that it works for 30 days from the day that it's installed. Nothing is worse than getting 1000 emails from readers about a demo that doesn't work carefully.

I suspect that your key targets should be web journalists on all the A/V sites rather than print mags, though. As some of the other respondents in this thread have noted, journos on national papers are also key.

Cheers,
Ian
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zevele1

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #37 on: February 15, 2002, 07:58:17 am »

-Friends comming here are amazed by the "get info fromCDDB".In other words how i clean the mess of 3 non stop days of downloads from Audiogalaxie.To get the sleeve[WHEN IT IS WORKING}
just kill them
_MediaJuke box has so many features that it can be not easy to use.GetRigth as also a lot of features and there is "basic interface" and 'Full options' when you set it
You may not know it,but i have an old cd from a magazine with MediaJukebox on it.Maybe this was without any agreement
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the|PLS|verb

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #38 on: February 15, 2002, 08:47:18 am »

A couple thoughts. I spent a few months searching for a good ripping/catalogging solution, and MediaJukebox got me completely and utterly hooked. Simply put, I cannot imagine using anything else. Two things I can think of that would make MJ mught stronger:

Interoperability: Export playlists as Winamp m3u files. And any other format you can imagine. Other opportunities like that are sure to be out there... the idea is that you can ease the transition from an existing 'known' tool into the MJ interface if you let people use what they already understand for playback, while using MJ for library management, ripping, and so on.

A cleaner interface. MJ is highly functional, but it just doesn't flow as smoothly as a lot of other products. Admittedly, it has a LOT of functionality, and this puts it at a disadvantage compared to highly focused products like WinAmp et al. Still, there are lots of opportunities to streamline things. The preferences window is a good example; it feels crowded and can't be resized, even though there's no reason to keep me from looking at all the category icons at once.

Perhaps splitting the ripping/burning/library management/playback functions into more discrete interface sections... When I'm ripping, I rarely care about popping open a playlist and staring at visualizations... Things like that.

DO NOT focus time and energy on making the interface 'cooler looking.' The workflow and organization of functionality is far more important than sexy looking skins... they're definitely cool, but they only help if the interface has already been streamlined.

Other thoughts as they come.

Thanks for an excellent product. Even without any of that stuff, it's simply the best on the market.

--the verb
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Severian

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #39 on: February 15, 2002, 09:15:38 am »

I'm probably going to be universally despised for even suggesting this, but has anybody ever considered actually changing the NAME of this thing? I have to be honest with you, every single time I've tried to talk a friend into checking it out, they have all thought I was referring to MusicMatch Jukebox, and was greeted with "tried it--it sucks", which was then followed by five more minutes of explaining that no, that's not the one I mean.

No doubt that "Media Jukebox" definitely puts it right in the space with the other direct competitor products, which is good, and it IS a "Media Jukebox", but I have to tell you the name has caused me problems in trying to 'sell' this thing to others. It also, unless you're more careful than the average bear, causes you no end of problems trying to hit reviews or information about it on a search engine, et cetera. Compare the average results that you get from a search on the two words of Media Jukebox as opposed to the results you get from, say, Siren Xpress.

How about renaming it "Media King" and getting Howard Stern to promote it? Next Page
Or something more aggressively appropriate, like "Media Deity" or "Media Dominator" (giggle)?

Yeah, I know how extreme a suggestion that is, and I'm not even a marketing wonk. Just trying to be helpful.

--Severian
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Scronch

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #40 on: February 15, 2002, 09:36:59 am »

IQ, give it a rest--JRiver's not going to give you the source code.

But, your comments about skins got me thinking.  Here'a a really cheap way to get lots of geekheads (read "potential customers") to try MJ:

Set up a contest (no, JimH, not a 52" TV).  Let the contest run, say, 3 months.  Let anyone enter by designing and submitting their own skin.  The winner(s) would get a high-end PC, I'm talking loaded.  The cost--a measly 2 or 3 grand.  Big deal.  I'm familiar with advertising statistics, and dollars per qualified prospect are shockingly high.  Now the tough part is to get the word out.  But if you make it a really high-end PC, then all the PC rags and websites might be willing to give you a blurb.

You could also have a "sub-contest" for visualizations.  Maybe have the winner(s) get a really high end portable mp3 player.  I'm assuming vis are easier to write than skins.  If not, change things around.

Anyway, my experience with contests (and raffles as fundraisers for non-profit groups):

- No crappy prizes.  You will destroy your credibility.  No one will give you any ink.  The general reaction will be: Yawn.
- REALLY HIGH-END prizes.  You will get TONS of free exposure.  But it still takes a lot of effort on your part.

For example, while on the board of a non-profit corporation, we set up a raffle with a Harley as a grand prize.  Now most people give away a Sportster, which most people don't even want.  We gave away three prizes: a loaded Dyna Wide Glide, a top-of-the-line Harley leather jacket, and a pair of great seats to a Packer game.  (Analogy: give away top-end PC's and mp3 players.)  The ticket price was held down to a reasonable level, $10 each or 3 for $25.  (Analogy: ask the end user to do something fairly easy, like a skin or vis; don't ask him to write a new digital filter theory.)  In the end, we brought in 4 times our total cost, i.e. we made 3 times the total cost.  That money bought a really nice building for the group.

The key element if free exposure--lots of it.  Check with all the PC rags and sites to see what prize(s) it would take to get a news story or press release printed (at no cost to JRiver).

Scronch
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Hvy Duty

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2002, 09:50:41 am »

IQ I said hello at your welcome back party I thought I better say goodbye quick while I can.
Has JRiver ever thought about putting a coupon or web address in CDR's from memorex, imitation or others about their burner (a good one) don't know what the cost would be but alot of people buy CDR's and most are for burning music. Let them D\L the full version for 60 days use they would be hooked by then.
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Hvy Duty

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2002, 02:34:38 pm »

I have to get my two cents worth IQ 100 you are helpful in a lot of ways if you would just stick with that. I enjoy some of your posts and others too. Doof you and King are probably the most helpful people on this board it just seems funny that the attacks begain, people use this board as support and when they see what we just seen it's like a chat room politics and whatever. Like I say you and King are really helpful and IQ 100 is too if he would just forget about the source code and put all his know how (forgot how to spell knowlege) into answering the ? which he does a lot of the time and HE IS RIGHT MOST OF THE TIME but won't answer some times. This is a good board when it works and Doof you are the first one to step up to the plate King also so let's get the board where we answer the frist time user with his silly questions but they are not silly to him I have seen many posts offensive to the first time user he may tell 10 friends how he was treated so they don't show up for help if they have got the product from C-Net They just say product is no good because for the first time user it is complicated. When they ask a ? silly(Most of mine still are)they are pushed aside and the attacks start he is sitting there thinking what did I start and he still didn't get his ? answered
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KingSparta

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2002, 02:43:05 pm »

>I have seen many posts offensive to the first time user
I think I have been good, I told glennn in E-mail I would be better
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JimH

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #44 on: February 15, 2002, 02:58:17 pm »

Hvy,
Well said.

He had a bad day.  I had one yesterday.  I think the shelling is over.

Baked potatoes tonight.  Marilyn Monroe and Lauren Bacall in "How to Marry a Millionaire."  Live is good.

Jim
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Jim Hillegass
JRiver Media Center / Media Jukebox

KingSparta

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #45 on: February 15, 2002, 03:09:12 pm »

My mom sent me my baby pictures and others today

So far, she is a 3-time cancer survivor

Along with My Weekly Reader Mag when John F. Kennedy was alive.

Kind of makes you think of life and death, near and far, and what must come
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Deathrider

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #46 on: February 15, 2002, 04:47:21 pm »

Back to my idea of a bumper sticker,  have one with a man walking with a baby holding hands, on the babies diapers put the name of one of the other players and MJ on the back of the shirt of the grown man. then the caption underneath could say something like " What other players could be like if they ever grew up" or insert your own text that fits.

Robert Long
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Charlemagne 8

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #47 on: February 15, 2002, 05:09:58 pm »

Hats!!! We need hats!!! And bumper stickers!!! And window stickers!!!
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That's right.
I'm cool.

Harry|PLS|the|PLS|Hipster

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #48 on: February 15, 2002, 05:13:08 pm »

King - best wishes to yr Mom and to you, too. Tough go - I've been through it.

Time to all hold hands and sing 'Kumbaya'. Kinder and gentler - that's what 2 Metropolitans and a glass of Shiraz can do.

"If You Could See Me Now" - Sarah Vaughan

HTH
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Hvy Duty

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RE:MEDIA JUKEBOX and world domination
« Reply #49 on: February 15, 2002, 06:19:53 pm »

Think I lost my post have you ever thought of putting a coupon in the CDR packs like memorex, Imation,fuji and others don't know what it would cost but a coupon with web addy  for a 60 day trial, full version you know they are going to burn CD's and MJ has a good one after the 60 days they would be hooked.
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