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[RoderickGI]

Okay, I don't like to raise a really old topic again, and this one is just short of six years old, but it appears that there still is no solution. I'm referring to this topic: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=48699.0

The most recent answer I could find was this one: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=84879.msg580009#msg580009

Specifically, I wanted to convert jtv TV files to a format that I could then trim the extra time from the start and finish, added by padding of the recording, and then trim out any bits of video I didn't like. I'm sure you understand which bits I wouldn't like. I do like to keep episodes of a series for a while, maybe as long as the series lasts, so that I can go back and review, or perhaps even watch some series again from the start at a later date. Personal use only. Same as using a VCR.

Keeping the original files means I am using much more disk space than I wish to, with all that padding, and of course many TV recordings can be converted to a more space efficient format. Or so I thought they could, or should, be able to be converted.

I was surprised when I first converted a recording using the MC "Convert Format" function to find that while the 1440x1080 interlaced video was nicely converted to 1080p AVC in an MP4 container, the 5.1 channel AC-3 audio was down converted to AAC stereo.

I figured that as the conversion profiles are fixed, and the details are not shown, I would just pick a profile that should use the same codecs as the original file, being MPEG-2 and AC-3 codecs. Again, the audio was down converted to AAC stereo. Not only that, but the 5.8GiB jtv recording now took up 21.6GiB of disk space as a TS file. So I did a little research and it seems that this has been discussed many times, and there is no apparent solution.

Okay, I could record in the TS format, but I use the jtv file format for TV recordings for good reason, not just because it works best, but also because it enables the most functionality when Time Shifting.

So frankly, this is just a little bit silly. JRiver has a custom, proprietary TV recording Container format that contains a standard video stream using the MPEG-2 codec, and a standard audio stream using the AC-3 codec. Why can't MC at least write the existing video and audio streams out into a format that is more universally accessible?

If the reasons are purely legal, and JRiver would be exposed if MC provided the capability, then please let me know and I will move on. Otherwise, what is going on?   ?

[JimH]

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=67579.0

[astromo]

I've not been able to get comskip working consistently well across all the Australian OTA channels, so the JustinChase method wouldn't work for me.

Instead, I've opted for .ts recording format, VideoRedo and glynor's MCAutoQueue to do adscans. Works well enough for me. Requires manual selection of cut points but at least this is reliable and precise.

Would be happy to find an easier option if it came along.

[RoderickGI]

I've not been able to get comskip working consistently well across all the Australian OTA channels, so the JustinChase method wouldn't work for me.

It is not just about ad skipping for me though. In fact, I'm quite happy to skip ads manually as I watch the programs normally. This is more about saving space by trimming padding off recordings, moving recorded movies off my TV Recording disk, and consolidating recordings into one file for better long term management. But cutting the ads out is also nice to have.

Instead, I've opted for .ts recording format, VideoRedo and glynor's MCAutoQueue to do adscans. Works well enough for me. Requires manual selection of cut points but at least this is reliable and precise.

I'm reluctant to give up the jtv recording format. I need to look into the advantages and disadvantages again if I am forced to do that. But from my understanding with TS recordings I would lose the ability to record the Time Shift buffer, including the ability to skip backwards to the start of the program, hit record and get the program from that point in a recording. I have actually used this more often than I expected to . . . or at least I think it worked that way. I need to test again. Certainly saving the Time Shift buffer using the OSD menu works, even though I have the Time Shifting "Save on stop" set to "Do not save"

Would be happy to find an easier option if it came along.

Wouldn't we all.    However when using VideoReDo in the past to cut out ads, I found that it really did need a human review of the selected cut points. So for the best result there is going to be some work involved. From what I have read Comskip isn't going to support jtv files any time soon, if ever. Nor will it be perfect on the TS files MC creates.

I'll have a look at the programs in the thread you linked to Jim, and see what the current versions can do. Maybe there is a solution in there somewhere.

[astromo]

I'm reluctant to give up the jtv recording format. I need to look into the advantages and disadvantages again if I am forced to do that. But from my understanding with TS recordings I would lose the ability to record the Time Shift buffer, including the ability to skip backwards to the start of the program, hit record and get the program from that point in a recording. I have actually used this more often than I expected to . . . or at least I think it worked that way. I need to test again. Certainly saving the Time Shift buffer using the OSD menu works, even though I have the Time Shifting "Save on stop" set to "Do not save"

Opting for .ts doesn't exclude the use of time shifting (well, not on my machine anyway). MC works in .jtv during the recording operation and then does a convert to .ts at the end.

[RoderickGI]

Opting for .ts doesn't exclude the use of time shifting (well, not on my machine anyway). MC works in .jtv during the recording operation and then does a convert to .ts at the end.

Yes I understood Time Shifting still worked. But I thought you couldn't save the Time Shift buffer if you used the TS format. On my main HTPC while recording a program I can arrow up into the OSD menu and there will be an option to save the Time Shifting buffer. I didn't seem to get this option when watching TV from a client though.

Also, I haven't absolutely checked this, but I believe I have ben able to jump back in the Time Shift buffer, select a spot I want to start recording from, hit record and MC will just save the program from that point. I need to check this again though. This is definitely not available if using the TS format, and the reason, I believe, is that the JTV and TS files are written at the same time, in parallel. So when using the TS format, when you hit record it can only start saving a TS file from that moment on.

I'm not sure exactly when the TS file is created, but I understand it isn't made visible until the recording has finished. I assume it is saved progressively as a temporary file or something, then was renamed and placed in the correct directory when the recording stopped. Therefore there is no conversion from JTV to TS at the end.

If there was a conversion process from JTV to TS happening at the end of a recording process, it would be absolutely ridiculous that the same process wasn't made available for a user to use whenever they wanted to. The current MC "Convert Format" function appears to be crippled, possibly deliberately given that it converts audio rather than just re-muxing it into the new video format, and only produces stereo sound in the converted files.

[RoderickGI]

Also, I haven't absolutely checked this, but I believe I have been able to jump back in the Time Shift buffer, select a spot I want to start recording from, hit record and MC will just save the program from that point. I need to check this again though. This is definitely not available if using the TS format, and the reason, I believe, is that the JTV and TS files are written at the same time, in parallel. So when using the TS format, when you hit record it can only start saving a TS file from that moment on.

I just checked this again and yes, it certainly works. In fact I'm not sure if it is necessary to jump back to where you want to start recording. It looks like it just records the currently showing program when you hit the record button. It also honours the default pre and post padding for recordings. I have 10 minutes pre-padding and 30 minutes post-padding, and this program was 30 minutes long. It is tagged as a 1 hour 11 minutes recording. Close enough.

I've used this when I start watching a program for a while, often a movie, then decide I can't watch it at the time, so I hit record to save the whole program for later viewing.

I should test it with a longer Time Shift buffer and see if it will record a program that has already finished, but is still in the Time Shift buffer. For the test I just did I only had about 20 minutes in the buffer, and 10 minutes were required for the pre-padding.

One of the other reasons for wanting to convert JTV files to something else is that it appears that the whole Time Shift buffer is saved when you record a program this way, rather than just the JTV chunks required for the program. So using this method saves a whole lot more to disk than is required.

Try doing the above with a TS format recording.

[RoderickGI]

I did a test with a longer Time Shift buffer;

1. It appears that hitting the record button just saves the entire Time Shift buffer, rather than the program showing, even though MC knows where each program starts and finishes in the buffer. Maybe this will change once the Time Shift buffer window has moved past the show I recorded.

2. Even though I have hit stop several times, and changed channel, MC still seems to be recording into the same Time Shift subdirectory. At the moment I don't know if my recording will be preserved when the four hour time shift buffer moves past the recorded "Get Smart" program. It should, but we shall see. Unnecessary files should be cleaned up once the Time Shift windows passes the end of "Get Smart". Once I changed channel I could no longer jump back as far as Get Smart in the Time Shift buffer, only being able to go back as far as the time MC had been on the new channel.

3. It mucks up the Title and Sub-title of the recorded program item it creates, much like my other post http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=92426.0. For example, "IFISH" was on live TV when I jump back to "Get Smart" and hit record. The recorded program is named "Get Smart:IFISH". i.e. The Title is taken from the previous program, the one I had shifted back to, and the Sub-title was taken from the program that was live on air when I hit the record button. There were two program between IFISH and Get Smart. Seems a lot like the EPG Title/Sub-title problem I observed.

Why am I testing and reporting Time Shift issues in a thread about converting MC jtv files you ask?

Because cleaning up Time Shift files associated with this sort of ad hoc recording is one of the reasons I want to be able to trim recorded TV shows.

I shall check this recording tomorrow and see what I was actually left with.

[Yaobing]

Just to clarify:

The most important advantage of using jtv format is the ability to record a show after you have watched it for a while (half way through the program for example).  It can save the portion of the show that is already in the past as well as the rest of the show.  If the beginning of the show is still available in the buffer (i.e. the beginning is later than the earliest possible time), the entire show will be recorded.  If you decide to record very late, and your time-shifting window is small, then there is still a chance that you will miss the beginning of the show.

In comparison, recording in TS format starts recording at the moment you hit record button.  So the beginning of the show is lost.  The work-around in this case (recording in TS) is to use "save on stop" option.  This option allows you to save the entire time-shifting session.  If your time-shifting window is large enough, and you have watched the entire show (so the entire show will be contained in the time-shifting window), the show will be saved.  You will have to search for its beginning when you watch it later.  You must keep the time-shifting session running until the end of the show, and your time-shifting window must be large enough to contain the entire show.

[RoderickGI]

Thanks for the clarification Yaobing.

That was more or less my understanding, although I thought it went a bit further and would record from a point that I time shifted back to, or the program I time shifted back to, even if it was before the current program. My test yesterday and the result today showed that is not the case.

I have a four hour Time Shift buffer. Yesterday I let it pretty well fill up with the following program sequence:
. . . Program A> <Get Smart> <Program C> <IFISH>

Part way through "IFISH" I tried to record "Get Smart" by time shifting back to the beginning of "Get Smart" in the buffer, then pressing record. I had all of Get Smart in the buffer, plus some time earlier. MC knows the program start and finish times and uses this information when moving back and forward through the buffer, so I expected it to record the program I had time shifted to.

But no, it just recorded the program currently being broadcast, which in this case was "IFISH". While it did continue to use that recording directory for the time shift buffer for some time, by this morning it appears to have cleaned up most of the excess time shift files, leaving a directory only slightly larger that what would have been required for a normal recording of 1 hour 10 minutes, which was the recording duration. The IFISH program had a 30 minute duration, so MC respected my 10 minute pre-padding and 30 minute post-padding. 

BTW I was using MC20.0.21 with your fixes to clean up unwanted time-shifting folders on hard drive. However this test was on the HTPC which is both MC server and client.

When I use this function it is usually to record something that I have started watching but aren't going to finish watching at that time, so the way it works now has always worked for me. It would be nice if a user could time shift back to an earlier program and record it though, as long as it was all in the buffer of course. For now I will just have to remember to save the time shift buffer if I wish to save an earlier program.

The recording did muck up the program naming, giving it a Title of "Get Smart" with a Sub-title of "IFISH", while keeping the metadata for IFISH. Interestingly the "one time" recording rule was correctly named IFISH, but when I configured the rule it shows "Get Smart:IFISH" as the name. See images. Sorry I'm cross-posting with my other issue over here: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=92426.0 and this issue should be dealt with over there.  But this is just another example of that problem.

So anyway Yaobing, are we ever going to see some progress in being able to convert jtv files to some editable format? Please.

[RoderickGI]

Would you like VideoReDo to open JRiver JTV files directly?

Would you like to trim and edit your TV recordings made in JTV and TS format?

If so, get over to this thread: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=92571.0 and do something about it!

[RoderickGI]

The answer to the original question in this thread is here: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=105793.0