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[klauss]

I am running MC20 in a client / server configuration for watching videos. I have serious performance problems from short video hangs to complete video and audio stand still for extended periods (i.e. minutes). There is clearly a correlation b/w the quality (i.e. file size) of the video and the hangs. Low quality videos hang less - whereas highest quality videos are close to unusable. All of this worked perfectly in MC19. This all started happening with MC20 and got worse with every update.

[glynor]

Sounds like:

* Anti-Virus
* Disk problems
* Network problems if it is a network volume

Read:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Troubleshooting_Guide

Also, just because MC19 didn't exhibit the same issue doesn't mean it isn't one of the above.  Are you actively testing MC19 now on the same system and sure it isn't behaving identically?  Because if the disk or network problems are new, for some reason, the fact that it "used to work" on MC19 tells us nothing.

It is also possible you long-ago enabled some settings (like those described in the guide relating to slow or network disks), and haven't replicated those settings in MC20, so they're configured differently.  And, as far as Anti-Virus, you may have long-ago excluded MC19 from the checks, and now you need to do that again to MC20.  Or, Anti-Virus applications work on pattern recognition, and MC19 might be somewhat "recognized" by their algorithms, whereas MC20 is not (because it is newer) and so feels the full brunt of its interference (as a "non-trusted" application).

People don't realize, but if Anti-Virus applications weren't riddled with "special exceptions" for particular applications, even things like Photoshop and Word would run like crap with AV installed.  Security Vendors build all sorts of exceptions for known applications into their heuristics.  That's the only way they can do what they do and not break things left and right.

[klauss]

The machine is exclusively used for MC and hence has no AV installed - as a matter of fact, it's just the OS & MC. The disk is a 128GB SSD - tested and working fine. Network is wired gigabit. The connection from the server to the client delivers a little short of 110MB/s. I can use other apps on the same box to stream BD type content with no hiccup from my server. The only thing I have done on this machine (again, not used for anything else but MC) is to install MC20.

I will say that your communication style comes across as condescending due to your lecturing style and your assumption that it can't be MC20. You could just make a few recommendations that I could try and if they don't work out ask me to provide whatever would need you to understand why this is happening. After all, it's possible that MC20 does have a bug.

Please let me know if you want to help me figuring out why this is happening or I should move on. I prefer not get another lecture.

Thanks

[glynor]

I will say that your communication style comes across as condescending due to your lecturing style and your assumption that it can't be MC20. You could just make a few recommendations that I could try and if they don't work out ask me to provide whatever would need you to understand why this is happening. After all, it's possible that MC20 does have a bug.

Please let me know if you want to help me figuring out why this is happening or I should move on. I prefer not get another lecture.

Wow.

Ok.  First, you did not read my tone as intended.  Please try to give people here the benefit of the doubt.  We try to be nice, please do so yourself as well.

Secondly, to be clear: I don't work for JRiver.  I'm an admin on the forum because I've been here a long time and I help them ban spammers and stuff.  I took some time out of my own busy day to try to help you for free, because I'm trying to be nice.

It is extremely common for Hanging to be one of the three kinds of problems I listed.  Way, way, way more frequently than they are actually determined to be bugs in MC. Does that happen occasionally?  Sure, but...  If it was a general problem in MC, why wouldn't there be 1000 people here asking the same thing?  Since that isn't happening writ large, the most reasonable course of action is to investigate things that are specific to your system and rule that in or out first.  I don't know you, your original post had almost no detail at all, and so I can make no assumptions about what you have or have not tried.

If you want help: The Troubleshooting Guide explains all of the information we need to help diagnose the issue, along with a few items that are so common that we want everyone to rule them in or out.  Please follow it, and we'll see if we can help.

I would also like to know the answer to the most important question I tried to ask earlier: Does MC19 play the files in question properly now, on the same system, or does it also exhibit the issue currently?

If you don't want help, then sorry for your trouble, and I hope you have a good day.

[glynor]

Looking back over some of your previous posts, it looks like you're having recurring trouble with playing video over the network, over multiple major versions of MC.

In addition to the stuff from the guide discussed above, can you explain:

* How your media is stored (specifically) and how is it accessed by the server?
* Do the clients have direct access to the source files from inside your LAN, or are you relying on MC's streaming functionality?

For HD video playback, whenever possible, you will have the best performance and experience if the client machines can access the source files directly via the same exact path as they appear to the Server.  The streaming system is best when used to stream files over the WAN to clients that cannot access the files directly from inside your LAN.  I'm not saying it can't work, but you actually give up some features and you will be running much closer to the "edge" of problems, so it is worth asking about and considering.

Also, when going through the Troubleshooting Guide and posting your details as requested, we could use log packages from both the client in question and the server.  Preferably not massive multi-day logs, if possible (so, close and re-open MC on both machines, recreate the issue, then capture the log package on both machines).

[marko]

I have a massive log package

[glynor]

I have a massive log package

 

I never know what the heck to call it.

[jmone]

I am running MC20 in a client / server configuration for watching videos. I have serious performance problems from short video hangs to complete video and audio stand still for extended periods (i.e. minutes). There is clearly a correlation b/w the quality (i.e. file size) of the video and the hangs. Low quality videos hang less - whereas highest quality videos are close to unusable. All of this worked perfectly in MC19. This all started happening with MC20 and got worse with every update.

I'll take a guess, if.... you are running a Library Client HTPC from a Library Server PC?  If so you may be Transcoding the Video files at the MC Server end, instead of the HTPC just playing it, check your settings under:
- Tools > Options > Media Network > Client Options > "Play local file if one that matches Library Service file is found" Checked
- Both PC's can "see" the file using the file filepath details.

[glynor]

I'll take a guess, if....

That was a big part of my guess as well, if it isn't one of the more pedestrian "normal" problems.

[JimH]

Klauss,
I don't know how to say this without risking your thinking that I'm also "condescending and lecturing", but we have done this a lot, and problems that seem mysterious usually have mysterious causes.  See the "Weird Problems" thread in my signature for the evidence.

glynor, in my opinion, gave you a solid answer and it wasn't at all out of line.  Language may be the source of the friction.

It's a very complex thing we do, both the software and the support, and I'm personally grateful for all the help we get from the really smart guys like glynor and jmone.  We couldn't do it without them.

Jim Hillegass
CEO, JRiver

[klauss]

Thanks for getting back to me. Yes, language is the issue in the original response.

I am going to troubleshoot this further next weekend when I will have the time to install MC19 on the client and server. To answer some of the questions now:

- The 'server' is a small HP ProLiant Microserver G8 (running Win8.1) with two SAS drives configured as RAID 0 on which the videos are stored. MC has file system access to all files on the local machine and is configured that way (e.g. D:\Videos, D:\Music) This also ensures it can see file system notifications when new videos are copied there which does not work when MC is configured for smb (e.g. \\server\videos)
- All clients are on the same internal gigabit network and the server provides share access to the videos. However, I do not know how I would have to configure MC so the client would know how to smb access the videos. I can see that the MC process reads / buffers video on the client at about 500Mbit/s when it starts.
- I am not transcoding videos.

[zenpmd]

I have another thread on this. Exactly the same is happening to me to. Its totally unacceptable and I never had the problem pre MC20

[glynor]

I have another thread on this. Exactly the same is happening to me to. Its totally unacceptable and I never had the problem pre MC20

I don't see any other thread by you that is the same at all.

Can you provide a link?

[zenpmd]

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=92347.0

[glynor]

That isn't even remotely the same thing as this post.  Sorry for the confusion.

[CountryBumkin]

Thanks for getting back to me. Yes, language is the issue in the original response.

I am going to troubleshoot this further next weekend when I will have the time to install MC19 on the client and server. To answer some of the questions now:

- The 'server' is a small HP ProLiant Microserver G8 (running Win8.1) with two SAS drives configured as RAID 0 on which the videos are stored. MC has file system access to all files on the local machine and is configured that way (e.g. D:\Videos, D:\Music) This also ensures it can see file system notifications when new videos are copied there which does not work when MC is configured for smb (e.g. \\server\videos)
- All clients are on the same internal gigabit network and the server provides share access to the videos. However, I do not know how I would have to configure MC so the client would know how to smb access the videos. I can see that the MC process reads / buffers video on the client at about 500Mbit/s when it starts.
- I am not transcoding videos.

Can you copy one movie/video over to the Client machine for testing? That would help identify if the issue is "networking" related.

[glynor]

- The 'server' is a small HP ProLiant Microserver G8 (running Win8.1) with two SAS drives configured as RAID 0 on which the videos are stored. MC has file system access to all files on the local machine and is configured that way (e.g. D:\Videos, D:\Music) This also ensures it can see file system notifications when new videos are copied there which does not work when MC is configured for smb (e.g. \\server\videos)
- All clients are on the same internal gigabit network and the server provides share access to the videos. However, I do not know how I would have to configure MC so the client would know how to smb access the videos. I can see that the MC process reads / buffers video on the client at about 500Mbit/s when it starts.

Client copies of MC will automatically use any files it can find via the same path they were imported on the server.  If it cannot find the file using the same path, then it asks the server to stream the file.

There is an option to disable this behavior (and then the Client always requests the streamed copy instead) at Tools > Options > Media Network > Client Options > Play local file if one that matches Library Server file is found.  Ensure this is enabled as well on each Client (it is by default).

So, in your case, if the files are imported using the D:\ drive on the server, then each client must have a matching D:\ network volume mounted, so that the files can be found by the clients using the exact same paths as they would be on the server.  For this reason it is simpler, in many cases, to import the files using their UNC paths (\\server\share\path\to\files\) instead, because then you don't need to mount the drives carefully on each client machine.  You do, however, need to connect to the share in question at least once from each client machine in Windows Explorer (this allows Windows to cache the login credentials).

You mentioned something about the UNC paths not supporting filesystem events.  This is not accurate.  Filesystem events are fully supported in Windows for UNC paths.  Many NAS devices, and other odd filesystem types, do not support filesystem events, but if the drives are local to an actual Windows machine, and shared through Windows normally, then this should work without issue.  I have a number of machines at work configured in exactly this manner, and Auto-Import works as expected.

You can tell easily which is happening because when MC cannot access the file "locally" then a few features are disabled.  The easiest to check is to select a file and do: Right Click > Locate > On Disk (External).  This feature does not work if the source file cannot be found.

In addition to losing some features when MC streams the source files (like the Locate ones, and other similar features), you will see a performance difference between the two modes.  This will be exacerbated with higher-quality source files, and some file types (such as ISO rips) cannot be streamed at all.  The automatic streaming is convenient because it allows you to still play files when connected over the Internet to a remote server (assuming you don't have a VPN back home), and it also handles the occasional file you might import on the Server from a non-shared location (perhaps your user's Download folder, or something).  But, in general, especially with high-quality video, you should strive to have the files locally accessible to the clients whenever possible.

[klauss]

I had some time to check this out and figured it out. I can say that high CPU usage causes this problem. I had task manager open and whenever the CPU started reaching 100% I got the hangs / hiccups. Higher quality videos will use more CPU hence more issues. What I don't know is what exactly is causing the high CPU load. I haven't updates any driver in quite some time on this machine. So, I'll leave it up to you to investigate the increase in CPU.

Anyway, I had plans to replace my old PC and decided to buy one of the Intel NUCs with an i5. I no longer have the reported issue with the new machine. The CPU typically does not exceed 70-80% percent while streaming high def video.

I want to observe, however, that JRiver in Theater View while in the menu (not streaming anything) already uses 10-15% CPU. I would expect to see close to 0% in that case.

[glynor]

Theater View is a full-screen Direct3D application comparable to a (reasonably low-end) 3D game, so it does place demands on your GPU and video driver.  It isn't clear, however, that you've eliminated all of the other possibilities.  Please follow the instructions I already posted in this thread:

If you want help: The Troubleshooting Guide explains all of the information we need to help diagnose the issue, along with a few items that are so common that we want everyone to rule them in or out.  Please follow it, and we'll see if we can help.

CPU usage as you described when sitting idle generically sounds like it could be:

* Anti-virus (or possibly malware)
* Thumbnail building in the background
* Analyzing imported audio/video files in the background
* GPU driver or hardware issues
* DirectX configuration issues

CPU usage as you described when playing video generically sounds like it could be:

* Anti-virus (or possibly malware)
* Trying to use ROHQ or custom settings on a machine that can't handle it (no NUC, even new ones, can handle ROHQ, for example)
* GPU driver or hardware issues
* DirectX configuration issues

It could conceivably be a whole range of things, including a rarely-exposed problem with MC itself in certain configurations.  But, it doesn't happen to everyone, so we have to (in any case) figure out what makes your machine special.

The high CPU usage is a side effect of something else going on.  Yes, obviously, if the CPU is buried at 100%, then you're going to see other problems including playback stutters and dropped frames.  But it sure as heck doesn't happen on any of the various machines where I have MC installed.  Sitting idle in Theater View at the front menu, I see less than 1% CPU utilization from the Media Center 20.exe and JRWeb.exe processes combined (usually ~0.20 - 0.60%, which is in the wildly-inaccurate "barely registers" range).  You can see a little spike (no more than 5% at peak) when I initially load Theater View here, but then it calms down to minimal usage:



And playing back a 24p, 1080p, high-bitrate AVC MKV in ROHQ:



Again, you can see an initial loading spike (with associated I/O) and then it calms right down.  That's using my server machine, which has a Core i7 3770.  My HTPC doesn't do much worse though, and it's a much older Nehalem era i5-760.

In any case, we need the logs and other information requested in the guide.  You've provided some of that information (like that you're not running Anti-Virus at all, though it isn't clear if Windows Defender is enabled) but not all of it, and if you provided the log zips, I haven't seen them.

[klauss]

One attached file shows MC playing the m2ts stream of 2012. Another one shows MC sitting at the preview of 2012 in Theater View. In this case it's a Core i7 (i.e. different machine than the one I mentioned before).

I am certain my machines do not have viruses and I am equally certain it's not Anti-Virus/Malware. Please note that CPU usage goes down after about 5 min, but it will continue to hover around 10%. I don't know what ROHQ is, so I can't comment. I'd say that one thing that all my machines have in common is the use of Intel video drivers for the 5000 video h/w which is quite common.

I will post the logs as soon as possible.

[klauss]

I noticed that I forgot to comment on the use of UNC paths. It used to be - quite a while ago - that I had MC on the server use UNC paths to point at its locally stored media (e.g. \\server\videos). During that time I ran into the problem that when I copied a new video to the share, MC would not pick it up. It was recommended to me - I believe it was Jim - to stop using UNC paths and use a local path instead. Since that worked I haven't tried UNC paths since then, but would be happy to do it.

[klauss]

...and last, but not least, the log file attached to this post. I hope it will help you to identify high CPU usage. I am going to change to UNC paths later and will report back.

Thanks,
Klaus