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[daveman]

Hi There,

This is an issue that I have always had with MC so it is not an MC20 issue per se.

Whenever I add new media, MC automatically imports it.  That works fine

On the WDTV, when i go into the video listings, the media shows up under the RECENT tab.  However, when I navigate through folders the folders do not get updated unless I actually turn off [close] MC (Media Server) and turn in back on.

What made me think that this may be resolvable is the recent change to version 20.31
Fixed: DLNA, when pushing tracks to a renderer, when the playlist changes the next item to play, resend the SetNextAVTransportURI (for devices that support it) to keep the playlist in sync with the device.

Is this an issue that can actually be fixed.  It seems as though MC only pushed the directory listing to the device once MC is turned on.  Turning on and off the WDTV does not result in an update to the listings.

Dave

[daveman]

anyone?

[stevemac]

I think it's a combination of when JR updates the DLNA list and when the renderer refreshes its list (as I suspect it caches).  You could try to navigate to the top menu of the WD device & then reselect audio / video etc

I've got a WD device so I'll try a few things & report back

Steve

[daveman]

thanks.  looking forward to hearing if you come up with a solution

[stevemac]

Hi

I think this may be on the JRiver side of the equation, not the WD device.  The tests I performed were

• WD device powered on & JRiver DLNA server selected as the source.
• On the WD device - viewed an Album
• On the server, created a copy of one of the tracks on the album, in JRiver gave the track a new name so to identify it
• On the WD device - I could not see this new track when connected to the same DLNA server.
• Breaking the network connection on the WD device & reconnecting did not make the file available
• Power resetting the WD device did not make the file available

The only ways I could get the file to be visible on the WD device was to

• Select a different DLNA server (which MC provides) as the source.  Changing back to the original DLNA server caused the track to go missing again.
• Restarting the MC media server

Hoping Bob or AndrewFG will chime in on this

regards,

Steve

[daveman]

I can confirm that I have attempted the same tests

dave

[glynor]

The only ways I could get the file to be visible on the WD device was to

• Select a different DLNA server (which MC provides) as the source.  Changing back to the original DLNA server caused the track to go missing again.
• Restarting the MC media server

Sounds like an interaction in the way that the WDTV caches and how MC identifies itself.  In other words, it sounds like perhaps the WDTV doesn't see MC's DLNA Library as "changed" until it restarts.  The restart incidentally changes some identifying "bit" that shouldn't be important, but to the WDTV means that it should invalidate its cache.

But, it is hard to tell.  MC could be actually not serving it.  The only way to test that would be to browse the same DLNA Library via some other device or method, and look to see if the new item is actually there.  If so, that means MC is serving it, and the WDTV's cache isn't asking for a new copy (or is ignoring the new copy).  If it isn't there, then MC seems to require a restart even to add new items, which is pretty obviously bad.

[glynor]

I just did a brief search and I easily found people with WDTVs on the Plex Media Server forums complaining about a similar-sounding issue (though I didn't know all of the software names they were slinging around, so I could be missing something).  In fact, in a few of those threads, it looked like people couldn't get it to see new content even with restarting the media server software.

Still, though... Worth searching around for generic WDTV issues like this and see if there is a resolution available (or at least more information on what triggers) from the "other end".

[gvanbrunt]

A friend of mine had one a while back and had constant issues, so he scrapped it in favor of something else. I even tried helping him and it was apparent the box had issues with many different software products.

So unless WD fixed the firmware it may have issues.

[stevemac]

I initially thought it would be the WD unit, however given you can power reset the device so it boots from scratch and it still cannot see updated library entries when connecting to the same DLNA server suggests the MC may also be involved in the issue

cheers,

Steve

[glynor]

Not if the cache is in non-volatile storage.

[daveman]

what is interesting is that  the media shows up under the RECENT tab. 

However, when I navigate through folders, the folders do not get updated unless I actually turn off [close] MC (Media Server) and turn in back on.

This makes me wonder if there is a command or switch that MC can do to force an update onto the wdtv

dave

[ferday]

my wdtv only sometimes has these issues

Sometimes new files appear immediately and sometimes only after an mc server reboot.  sometimes browsing the folder won't reveal the new files, but if I browse by something else (say genre) then the new files are there, kind of like with you finding them in recent

I've always assumed it was likely a wdtv issue since it's unpredictable.....just like my wdtv boxes have been.  No messing with either the wdtv or MC has ever made a difference

[stevemac]

Not if the cache is in non-volatile storage.

good point.  Wouldn't have expected that.  Not that it's conclusive but I'll put some files onto a usb stick & see if the WD unit stores content information in non-volatile

might also post on the WD forum to see if anyone there knows

Steve

[stevemac]

So had a look in wireshark (& I don't really know what I'm doing or looking for)....but noticed a cache control value is set to 1800.   Fairly sure this is in seconds, therefore it is 30mins.  Not sure if this is related but I definitely didn't wait 30 mins in my testing

Code: [Select]

SERVER: Windows, UPnP/1.1 DLNADOC/1.50, JRiver/20
HOST: 239.255.255.250:1900
[b]CACHE-CONTROL: max-age=1800[/b]
NT: upnp:rootdevice
LOCATION: http://192.168.1.100:52100/DeviceDescription.xml
NTS: ssdp:alive
USN: uuid:e2f8066b-c75d-4781-875b-525130f57020::upnp:rootdevice


[stevemac]

So redid the tests and waited more than 30 minutes (probably closer to 2hrs).  No change in behaviour

Have a 2nd WD unit.  Will get it operational & see what tracks it can see (bring it online after a new track is added & connect to the same DLNA server as the other unit)

regards,

Steve

[glynor]

Have a 2nd WD unit.  Will get it operational & see what tracks it can see (bring it online after a new track is added & connect to the same DLNA server as the other unit)

That would be a very useful test.

To be clear, I'm not really trying to assess blame.  But until someone from JRiver who knows comes along (and they very well may not have a WDTV box themselves to test with) our best bet is to try to figure out as much as is possible about the problem.

Maybe we can solve it, or make it better, or maybe we can just get more information to make it simpler to fix if JRiver does need to do anything on their end.

[glynor]

might also post on the WD forum to see if anyone there knows

Also a good plan.  And you might want to check around on AVSForum and/or Plex Media Server forums.

[stevemac]

To be clear, I'm not really trying to assess blame. 

I realise that.  I am very thankful for your suggestions & totally agree about providing the best information possible

Also - there is an option on the WD unit to factory reset it.  I have also done this & when reconnecting to the DLNA server the "new" track" is still unavailable.  That reset clears all user settings (language, time zone, network, device name etc) - all things in non-volatile memory.

regards,

Steve

[glynor]

Hmmm... That's odd.

It would be nice if AndrewFG would chime in, as he probably knows DLNA better than most people in the world.

[daveman]

BTW I have multiple of these units in my home, they all have the same issue and only update once MC is restarted.

[gvanbrunt]

One thing to make sure of: The firmware on the WD should be the latest available. This should be 1.01.30 according the WD website. Please confirm you have this version and are seeing the issue with it.

[ferday]

One thing to make sure of: The firmware on the WD should be the latest available. This should be 1.01.30 according the WD website. Please confirm you have this version and are seeing the issue with it.

I can confirm this (latest firmware)...but as I said before I don't always have the issue, just sometimes.  I have several units of different models/ages and they all do the same thing.

[bob]

I looked into this once quite a long time ago.
IIRC the WDTV is ignoring the update counter that's supplied in the DIDL (content directory).
It's expecting the server to have a static library (most all of them do).

[gvanbrunt]

I looked into this once quite a long time ago.
IIRC the WDTV is ignoring the update counter that's supplied in the DIDL (content directory).
It's expecting the server to have a static library (most all of them do).

Ok. So a possible work around is to "simulate" what happens after MC is rebooted with WD devices. Something that happens causes them to update. Any idea what that is?

[bob]

Ok. So a possible work around is to "simulate" what happens after MC is rebooted with WD devices. Something that happens causes them to update. Any idea what that is?

Sure, the MC server says bye-bye.
That causes the renderer to remove it's entries.
No way to do that I can see without restarting the server (Media Network).

[stevemac]

That would be a very useful test.

I am now intrigued & would appreciate some input on the test I ran & what the outcome means......

• Both WD devices connected via Ethernet, accessing a JRiver provided DLNA Server
• Closed JRiver Media Server.  This should have sent the BYE BYE
• Disconnected WD Device #2 from the network
• Restarted JRiver Media Center
• Configured a new JRiver DLNA Server (ie one that neither of the WD devices had accessed before).  This was named "Testing"
• Selected this new DLNA server on WD Device # 1 & viewed an album

• On the Server - I duplicated one track from that album, renamed it, imported it into the library and suffixed its name with "TEST"
• Rechecked WD Device #1 and the new track was not visible whilst using the TEST DLNA server (expected behaviour based on prior testing)
• Reconnected WD Device #2 & selected the Testing DLNA Server
• The new track was not available in the view <-- I find this surprising
• On WD Device # 2 selected another DLNA server provided by JRiver (& one that hadn't been accessed since JRiver was restarted)
• The new track was available.
• Reselecting the TESTING DLNA server caused the new track to disappear

So it appears that JRiver isn't refreshing the content for a DLNA Server if it has been requested previously

Is there any further testing I can perform?

thanks,

Steve[/list]

[stevemac]

Hi,

Any thoughts?  I understand Bob's comments about a single device ignoring the update counter in the DIDL, however I don't understand why a second device connected to the same DLNA server doesn't get the updated content list

thanks,

Steve

[bob]

Hi,

Any thoughts?  I understand Bob's comments about a single device ignoring the update counter in the DIDL, however I don't understand why a second device connected to the same DLNA server doesn't get the updated content list

thanks,

Steve

Just a couple of quick thoughts, I haven't had time to re-verify the behavior yet.

First, the internal update in MC is not instantaneous, IIRC Matt said it can take a couple of minutes.
Second, my own observation with my library which contains podcasts is that this still functions properly (because they show up without a restart on my external devices) but I haven't been using it with WD's specifically.

[daveman]

any updates on how to resolve this issue?

Dave

[daveman]

Its been a while and I wonder if there is any update to this issue?

[daveman]

this is still an ongoing issue.

any update?