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[blgentry]

I've spent some time researching this and can't seem to find a good answer.  I'd like to simply have a network device I can send audio to as a Zone from MC and have it play from RCA outputs.  Essentially the functionality of an Airport Express.  But I understand that the Airport Express isn't easy to make work with MC, nor does it seem to be stable.

I want simple, stable, and inexpensive.

Thanks for any suggestions. 

Brian.

[iamimdoc]

Western Digital TV works for me.  At least the version of about 18 months ago works as well as the 5 year old version.  It is also possible to hook 2 usb drives onto a WDTV and use them as "network drives" (works for streaming movies or music although copying stuff to drives is glacial when hooked to the WDTV devices).  And you get a movie player also although I think you have to use either HDMI or RCA - not both at same time

On sale you can get a WDTV for about 80 bucks

Never really listened for sound quality as one hooked up to a wave radio and one to an amp in the backyard.  But one gets music that can be conrtolled easily with jremote etc.

[Carcajou]

Bonjour

I use a Sony BDP S590 3D Blue Ray player (4 years old) for ambiance DLNA audio playing in one room of the house. An el-cheapo DLNA Blue Ray Disk player with RCA analog output is an option. But RCA jacks at the rear of these devices have disappeared in recent models.

Carcajou

[blgentry]

Thanks for the suggestions.  Looks like the WDTV can be had for around $60 refurbished.  I haven't looked at many BluRay players yet, but the model listed is available used for $75-ish.

Do either of these boxes require configuration of the box itself to be used as a DLNA renderer?  Looking at the docs for the WDTV was confusing, as I don't want to do much with it:  Just send audio to it and have it play.  I'm guessing it's almost zero configuration other than getting it to obtain an IP address on the network.

I'm guessing the Sony is similar, but I'm brand new to this so...

Any gotchas on either box?  On the WDTV is there a version or model that *won't* work with MC?

Thanks again guys.  This is encouraging!

Brian.

[RoderickGI]

I don't have a WDTV but did some research on them a while back, mostly in response to queries about audio.

I forget most of the research, but I do remember that the WDTV DLNA renderer does not support higher quality audio, and that what is supported varies by model, but isn't well documented. It supports audio better when it isn't acting as a DLNA renderer, but is playing audio from a hard disk that is directly connected to it. Well, that is what I remember.

So understand what format audio you want to send to it, bitdepth and sampling frequency, set your expectations for audio quality, and then research if the WDTV DLNA renderer supports it.

Sorry, this stuff is never simple, and manufacturers rarely point out the limitations of their gear, unless you dig into the documentation, or ask real users on forums etc.

[AndrewFG]

If you go to the DMRA site mentioned in my signature you can download the database of devices that have been tested, and you will be able to see their capabilities in their renderer reports.

[blgentry]

Thank you two also.  I've downloaded the file and found the section in each report on supported formats and rates.   Almost everything I have is 16/44.1 and I'd be totally happy with down converting to that level for everything else for this *particular* application.

I'm surprised this isn't a more common question.  Seems like people would like to have 2, 3, or more of these in a typical medium sized house. Or maybe those types of people gravitate towards something really easy like Sonos?

Anyway, thanks for all the help so far.

Brian.

[csimon]

I'm surprised this isn't a more common question.  Seems like people would like to have 2, 3, or more of these in a typical medium sized house. Or maybe those types of people gravitate towards something really easy like Sonos?

The advantage that Sonos and similar systems have is that they allow synchronised playback. this is not possible with MC to DLNA renderers, or MC to MC servers.

[Arindelle]

The advantage that Sonos and similar systems have is that they allow synchronised playback. this is not possible with MC to DLNA renderers, or MC to MC servers.

Yes but they are very restrictive to the amount of media they can manage; difficult for large libraries. I don't use DLNA renderers, but I understand why that could be an issue. However I have no problem synchronizing playback between MC and MC server machines. Its a lot easier now than it used to be. Actually I only synchronize between 2 PCs and one is a the media server and the other is a client.

[iamimdoc]

The wdtv plays what ever I send to it, music wise as a renderer
The major configuration is getting the WDTV on your network.
There is some configuration for video with aspect ratio, stereo/surround, etc.  May not be an issue if music only

I guess it is possible to stream music from a nas to the wdtv and use a monitor and its remote to select music but I would consider that to be a total non starter if you have > 2 albums.

It just showed up in jriver as a zone. I have 3WDTVs, one for movies, one for out door music only and one for movies and music at a tv.  In retrospect I think I have RCA and HDMI at the latter device and I don't have to change any cables but the sound is limited to stereo.  This is not an issue as it is just a bedroom tv and the Bose wave radio. Picture is high res though.

As I stated the sound quality is of no great interest to me in this application as it goes to crappy wave radio or crappy outdoor speakers.  But, the music does go and doesn't stop or dropout ( I am 100% wired Ethernet).  And with an iPad an jremote I have easy access in my backyard to all of my music.... Etc.

Hope this is useful.

[blgentry]

Definitely helpful.

So once it's set up on the network, you can find it in JRiver and configure it as a zone.  Once that's done, so you have to put the WDTV into any specific mode, or select anything from a menu?  Or does it just play audio any time you send it from JRiver?

I would *almost* expect that you would need to select something, or at least press "OK" on the WD remote to tell it to go ahead and start streaming audio.

I'm hoping that's not true though, and that it just streams no matter what.  That way I can set it up with a monitor attached *just* for setup, and then move it to where it's going to be, where there is no monitor at all and have it stream any time it's supposed to.

This is a new and interesting part of the audio world. 

Brian.

[JimH]

The JRiver Id works well with MC.

http://www.jriver.com/Id

[csimon]

So once it's set up on the network, you can find it in JRiver and configure it as a zone.  Once that's done, so you have to put the WDTV into any specific mode, or select anything from a menu?  Or does it just play audio any time you send it from JRiver?

It just works.  You need to set it up initially to tell it what outputs to use - it may or may not default to analogue out,and I can't remember if you have to turn the network on - but apart from that you can just use it headless and it should automatically appear as a zone in MC.  You just send music to it and it plays.  You may also need to configure the DLNA options in MC - whether to convert formats or not, whether to send the native file or apply JRiver DSP such as volume levelling.

I would *almost* expect that you would need to select something, or at least press "OK" on the WD remote to tell it to go ahead and start streaming audio.

This is the difference between a DLNA Renderer (DMR) and DLNA Player (DMP).  Most devices are DMP only but the WDTV is both.  With a DMP, you use its own remote control to browse a media library on the network and to control playback and you need a TV connected to it to do this. With a DMR, you use an external controller to control it and it can be headless.

The WDTV is probably the easiest and cheapest way of getting a DMR and it's easy to tuck behind your main amp or whatever to effectively turn your amp into a DLNA renderer.  Some people say its internal DAC is not that great, but if you use optical out instead then you can use an external DAC.

The JRiver Id is actually a complete computer (an Intel NUC) running JRiver MC, so it can also behave as a DMR.  The advantage is that it uses JRiver's high quality audio engine but, if that's not essential for you, it's a lot more expensive than a WDTV would be and it has a fan and internal disk, and you need to weigh up the ease of headless use of a WDTV and easily turning it on and off against running a complete PC with a desktop and software that needs updating.

[blgentry]

^ All right!  Sounds like the WDTV does just about exactly what I'm after for the application I have in mind.  "Casual audio" is one way to describe it.  Doesn't need to be very detailed; it's background music.  Thanks for the explanation of DMR versus DMP.  Makes a lot of sense.

I've been following the JRiver Id for a short while now, trying to wrap my mind around exactly what it does.  I think it's capable of all three functions: Server, Player, and Renderer.  Seems like a waste to just make it a renderer.  For a different set of applications I think I may end up buying an ID or two.

This is as good a time as any to say that I've been toying with the ID of using the ID as a main source for a car stereo.  ID, and external DAC, and a preamp.  The main thing I haven't gotten past now is what the main user interface will be.  JRemote on a small tablet?  I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to find an interface that will be as simple and accessible as a car stereo User Interface needs to be.  Like I said... still toying with the idea.

Thanks again for the help csimon and everyone else!

Brian.

[csimon]

This is as good a time as any to say that I've been toying with the ID of using the ID as a main source for a car stereo.  ID, and external DAC, and a preamp.  The main thing I haven't gotten past now is what the main user interface will be.  JRemote on a small tablet?  I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to find an interface that will be as simple and accessible as a car stereo User Interface needs to be.  Like I said... still toying with the idea.

To use one of the mobile remotes such as JRemote, eos, Gizmo, you would need a network in your car!  If you're not going down that route, you could probably just use a small touch screen monitor connected to the Id with MC itself as the interface.  There are hopefully going to be improvements made to the interface to make it more touch friendly (see http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=96968.0), but I don't know how car-friendly it will be - you really need big, simple, positive buttons and intutive simple gestures for use in a car.  [Caveat: I'm not sure if Theater View is available yet on the Id.)

[csimon]

I've been following the JRiver ID for a short while now, trying to wrap my mind around exactly what it does.

It's simply JRiver MC pre-installed on a mini PC.

[mwillems]

To use one of the mobile remotes such as JRemote, eos, Gizmo, you would need a network in your car!  

I'm pretty sure you can solve this issue by turning your phone into a wireless access point at which point the ID could connect to it; I'm think that's how Hilton did his Id car build.

I've done something similar (but not identical) with MC for linux/ARM on a homemade Raspberry Pi DLNA renderer so I could use JRemote to control it where there's no existing Wi-Fi network.  It works a treat, so the capability is there. I'm just not sure if the official Id supports it, but if it supports Wi-Fi, I don't know why it wouldn't (a phone access point is normally indistinguishable from a router).

[JimH]

It's simply JRiver MC pre-installed on a mini PC.

That's 1/3 of it.  The other two parts are:

1.  An OS.  Linux is installed and configured.

2.  A management layer that provides access to functions like updates, tests, configuration, and so on.  The Id can update itself (OS, MC, and management tools).

Functionally, it's set up and ready to act as a DLNA / UPnP renderer or server.  It can also serve as a backup device.

All of this could be set up manually by a person who is quite comfortable with Linux, but it's much easier and faster to use the Id as a package.  It's more like a consumer electronics device than a computer.  Set it and forget it.

We expect to make them steadily easier and less expensive, so you might sprinkle them around your home.  They compete with Sonos, but they also do video.

[jmone]

The original ID sounds like what you want.  I don't know if JR has any left (I have one on my shelf).

[blgentry]

I would honestly LOVE to have a JRiver Id or two.  But my budget is extremely limited at the moment, so I can't really afford one.  That's why I'm after a super inexpensive solution.

When I have more funds available, I'll probably get an Id to play with.

Thanks,

Brian.

[JimH]

What is your budget?

[blgentry]

I'm not usually so incredibly limited, but now isn't a good time.  I was thinking something around the $50 mark, but I could maybe stretch to $100 if I found a great deal on something.

Looking forward to when I can afford an ID for more than just this little project.

Thanks,

Brian.