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[slerch666]

I am having an issue getting WMA files to play on my JRiver MC 21 install. I have Windows 10 Insider Build 11082.

I DO NOT DENY THAT 11082 COULD BE THE ISSUE, BUT I WANT TO ENSURE ALL MY TROUBLESHOOTING IS CORRECT BEFORE REPORTING THIS TO MICROSOFT. I don't want the answer to be "roll back to the previous build" until I've done all I can to troubleshoot whether it's a JRiver issue or something stupid I did.

Issue: Can't play WMA at all on Win 10 Build 11082 via local playback. WMA works in Groove and VLC

ONLY RECENT CHANGE IN JRiver - I made some changes to DLNA settings, which I can't seem to get back to the menus to change. I don't think this is an issue because I am trying to play music back LOCALLY, not over DLNA, but since I don't know enough about it, I'm happy to try whatever makes sense.

What I've done to try to fix it:

I upgraded to the "latest" version available on the Latest Available channel (21.0.27). Same issue.
Uninstalled JRiver. Had to restart PC as files were locked (which has never happened before)
Reinstalled JRiver 21.0.27. Same issue.
Uninstalled Sound Card Drivers (Sound Blaster ZxR)
Reboot
Reinstalled Sound Card Drivers - SAME ISSUE
Set playback to Direct Sound - was set to WASAPI. Turned off all conversion options and DSP settings. SAME ISSUE


At this point, I would be willing to completely remove JRiver, including my library, to see if that is the issue. If someone can point me to instructions on how to COMPLETELY remove JRiver, I am happy to try that.

Video playback is fine, which is why I didn't bother trying anything with my video card drivers, though I did just upgrade those to the latest Radeon drivers.

Other thoughts?


And yes, I know. "Just revert to the 1511." As I said, I can do that. I just want to make sure it's not specific to JRiver.

[slerch666]

ALSO for the record, my WMA is DRM free. It is all stuff I ripped ages ago (I use APE/FLAC now). Reripping is a possibility to fix, but... with about 120 albums in WMA, I don't really want to do that if I don't have to.

These same files work fine in:

VLC
Groove

These files do NOT work in JRiver 21 or Pono Music World 20. (FWIW, I don't really use the PMW app, but it's installed anyway)

I'm heavily leaning on Win 10 Build 11082 being the culprit, but really want to fully troubleshoot.

[CountryBumkin]

Is there someplace (like Dropbox) where you can upload a small sample file for testing?

[slerch666]

Hello CountryBumkin.

I uploaded a file to my OneDrive account. I tried to pick something that isn't obnoxious to share. You can find it here:

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=E25A5F3A059168CF!993353&authkey=!AGTnKn1y4FfNvog&ithint=file%2cwma

Let me know when you have it so I can stop sharing.

Thanks!!

[CountryBumkin]

I was able to play it.
I had to go into Tools>Options>Audio>DSP and change 44.1KHZ to always use 48KHz, but that is just due to my system (and on-board sound card).

BTW - nice choice. I saw Jethro Tull in concert back in the late 70s. Brings back a lot of fond old memories.

UPDATE: I just tried on a different computer (same version of MC) this time it ran without me making any changes. it says it is playing as 44.1kHz 24bit 2 ch.

[JimH]

ALSO for the record, my WMA is DRM free. It is all stuff I ripped ages ago (I use APE/FLAC now). Reripping is a possibility to fix, but... with about 120 albums in WMA, I don't really want to do that if I don't have to.

These same files work fine in:

VLC
Groove

Can you play the files in Windows Media Player?

[slerch666]

Can you play the files in Windows Media Player?

Hello JimH.

Yes, they work just fine from Windows Media Player.

Still leaning on it being a Windows 10 Insider Preview issue.

[slerch666]

No other help to offer?

My question stands - if I want to uninstall JRiver completely, including nuking my library, how do I accomplish this? I assume there is a folder in my User Profile that has all my settings and fun stuff included? If yes, where? Any registry settings I need to be aware of after a complete uninstall?

Thanks.

[CountryBumkin]

I think it is an Audio setting. Can you provide more info?

1) WASAPI should be best choice for SoundBlaster.
2) Go into Windows Sound properties - make sure correct device is selected then check under Advanced properties and be sure the correct formats are selected.
3) Go to Audio>Settings>DSP>Output Format - make sure the sample rate is supported by your soundcard and number of channels, etc.

I don't think it is Windows OS since I was an "Insider" and ran all of the beta version with JRiver MC without problems. However I didn't have a sound card either. You may want to verify the drivers for your SoundBlaster is the best one for you if the Creative Labs drivers are installed now, maybe try the Windows 10 generic soundblaster driver).

[slerch666]

I am pretty sure it's not an audio setting, as I also tried using Direct Sound and my mobo's built in sound with no luck either, but here we go:

1) I've tried WASAPI to ZxR. I turned off all DSP settings. I went Direct Sound as well, no DSP settings. Won't play WMA at all, but has no problem with FLAC/APE
2) Checked all that - when using WASAPI it should bypass those settings anyway... right? But tried any format that it would let me choose when using "shared" mode
3) DSP - left all the settings off and it still doesn't work.

I've now completely uninstalled the ZxR (and all related software). Restarted. Tried with built in Windows 10 generic SB driver - same problem (plays everything else fine). Reinstalled. Same problem.

I am actually almost positive it is a problem with the latest Fast build of Windows 10. The current build is 11082. I am going to put JRiver on my Surface Pro 3 and see what happens there as it is also on 11082.

The other reason I am thinking it's a Windows issue, is I also have Nero, which comes with a media player program. I tried WMA in there, similar issue (program hangs indefinitely though, not throw up an error). VLC works fine. WMP works fine. I guess I'm thinking it may be an issue with the way they use the hardware? Not sure, but it was working in the regular release of Win 10 Build 1511 (the November update).

May try a revert as well, as there is a bug with copying or moving files where there is no progress indicator. Kind of annoying there.

[torgny]

I have the exact same problem, WMP and VLC continue to work as before but JRMC20, Foobar, ZoomPlayer, dBpoweramp all encounter some form of error and won't play (or convert) these files. Unsure if the problem started with Insider Preview 11082 or earlier since I rarely play WMA files anymore.  Have reported the issue on Windows Insider website (there are several other posts like that).  Hopefully it will be resolved in the next Windows 10 build.

[slerch666]

Thank you Torgny.

I was afraid that was the answer. Think I may revert until the next build is available. I don't have a ton of WMA, but I would prefer playing it through JRiver.

[torgny]

Incidentally, looking up the changes to the 11082 build on the MSFT website, it lists "changing to WMP as default option for audio/video files" as one of 3 or so major items -- I think we found the culprit!  Microsoft seems to have difficulty making its mind up about media playback, at first WMP was replaced by Groove W10 and the older version was zapped in the updating process, then it was included on the sly in the official release (without any fanfare), now they just made it the default!  BTW, Groove cannot be launched on my PC.  Go figure.

Happy New Year,

TG

[torgny]

Reverting to the previous build makes a lot of sense.  I would further suggest to use MC to convert all WMA to a similar open source format (like FLAC) and maybe you can avoid further interference from the friends in Seattle...  As for myself, I would restore the November 15 release in a heartbeat but unfortunately have already deleted the WINDOWS.OLD directory.  So instead I tried to remedy the situation by restoring an earlier version of the Registry but unfortunately that didn't help.  I believe the next official release is due in January and unless this was an intentional change the issue will probably be corrected by then.

[slerch666]

Installed build 11102.

The competition, Nero (not really competition, but whatever) NOW works fine. JRiver Media Center? Borked still.

And like you, I realized I had nuked my restore. If I want to go back, it's a rebuild.

Converting my WMAs to FLAC or APE makes sense, but maybe I should just bite the bullet and re-rip everything instead.

Still. JRiver should still be able to play WMAs - converting my formats is not cool, nor is it something normal users, assuming they upgraded to 10 to begin with, will tolerate when the next production build is released.

[blgentry]

Your sample WMA file on onedrive is no longer available, so I can't test it myself.  But CountryB tested it and it worked on his system (2 systems) with no real problems.  That implies that something outside of MC on your system is the cause of the issue.  That's not a 100% concrete conclusion, but if it works on one system and not on another...

Post another sample file and I'll try it on my MC installation which doesn't even run on Windows.

Brian.

[slerch666]

Hello blgentry.

Here's a sample link

http://1drv.ms/1JqkLir

BUT...

The WMAs worked fine on my Win 10 desktop and Surface Pro 3 until I installed 11082 Tech Preview. 11099 had the same issue, as does the freshly released 11102.

I have this build on my Dell XPS desktop, and have since put it on my Surface Pro 3. In both instances WMA played with the official release build, the November update of 1511.

If I revert my SP3, which I have done, WMA works fine. As soon as you move to a new Tech Preview (11082 up to 11102 now), WMAs no longer play in MC. I've replicated this on a laptop I have at work as well - WMAs just don't work in JRiver Media Center beyond build 1511. Or at least have not done for me. The only thing that is similar between the 3 systems are the files I tried to use. I don't have my entire library on my SP3 or the work laptop - I imported several known to be working WMAs on the SP3 and built a new library with them. Failed. Got different, known working WMAs, and put them on the work laptop. Same issue.

I would doubt anyone not running the tech preview will have the problem. I don't think this is a MC issue, I'm sure it's a Windows 10 Tech Preview issue. I guess what I want to avoid is this actually being an issue when Windows 10 Redstone, the next official update coming later this year. I believe the target is summer 2016.

My next step is to build a VM and play with that and see where that goes. That will certainly remove any hardware issues from the equation.

[slerch666]

Well, I guess I need to find a conversion program for WMA to FLAC. JRiver MC 21 on build 11102, because it can't play the files, it can't convert them either.

Before we get into the "why would you convert a lossy format to a lossless," the answer is so that I am not FURTHER compressing what I have - the FLAC will be no better or worse than the WMAs. It will just take up more space.

I will one day convert them all from CD again, but for now I just want to be able to play my files again.

[blgentry]

Thanks for the additional info.  I didn't quite "get" that they played on previous systems prior to updating to the "tech preview".  I don't have any information on why that might be.

I downloaded your file, just for another test, and (as I think you expected), it played fine on my MC system.  My MC installation is actually on a Mac, but plays the WMA file just fine.

Good luck to you.

Brian.

[torgny]

Upgraded to Win 10 Pro - Insider Preview 14251 last week.  While MC still won't play WMA, dBpoweramp now recognizes these files.  I was able to do a DBPA Batch Convert (filtering to include WMA only) to APE and so the problem was solved in about 30 minutes.  They sound really good too so I wouldn't be afraid of converting, certainly a lot easier than re-ripping.  It is quite clear by now that this is a Windows 10 issue but I guess it remains to be seen if if it was intentional and if future releases will allow 3rd party apps.

[Arindelle]

Upgraded to Win 10 Pro - Insider Preview 14251 last week.  While MC still won't play WMA, dBpoweramp now recognizes these files.  I was able to do a DBPA Batch Convert (filtering to include WMA only) to APE and so the problem was solved in about 30 minutes.  They sound really good too so I wouldn't be afraid of converting, certainly a lot easier than re-ripping.  It is quite clear by now that this is a Windows 10 issue but I guess it remains to be seen if if it was intentional and if future releases will allow 3rd party apps.

read this post just today, sounds pretty frustrating. Glad that you don't notice on your system any sound differences after the conversion. When and if you can re-rip to flac, I'd recommend doing so.  Going back and forth between lossless versions like converting to alac, changing your mind and reconverting to flac ... no problem. But converting a lossy file to another format/container, there is going to be a "generational" loss unless you had WMA Lossless files which I just read do exist. Whether you can actually hear any degradation is of course another matter.

Just a heads up in case you decide to donate all your original cds to your local library 

[torgny]

Thank you, Arindelle.  Yes, my WMA files were all Lossless (30 hours of music, 10 GB disk space) and were ripped to this format because at the time I was under the impression that this was a superior format.  Now we know better.  Actually, I believe WMA Lossless and FLAC are really of similar sound quality whereas APE seems slightly better (In My Humble Opinion).  Maybe not everyone will agree but I also feel that Uncompressed WAV beats all compression schemes by a country mile.  Even converting files originally ripped FLAC yields a substantial improvement in sound quality, but I suppose ripping it directly to WAV is the best.  Not sure if there's any benefit, but I usually increase to 48/24 just in case. Regards // TG

[Arindelle]

Thank you, Arindelle.  Yes, my WMA files were all Lossless (30 hours of music, 10 GB disk space) and were ripped to this format because at the time I was under the impression that this was a superior format.  Now we know better.  Actually, I believe WMA Lossless and FLAC are really of similar sound quality whereas APE seems slightly better (In My Humble Opinion).  Maybe not everyone will agree but I also feel that Uncompressed WAV beats all compression schemes by a country mile.  Even converting files originally ripped FLAC yields a substantial improvement in sound quality, but I suppose ripping it directly to WAV is the best.  Not sure if there's any benefit, but I usually increase to 48/24 just in case. Regards // TG

sure no problem, Torgny 

I could link to you a study done on Computer audiophile that disproves the WAV vs flac superiority. BUT I am NOT going to ... just gets people agitated!!  As for your ripping to 48k/24bit ... no comment either. I will say it is no longer bit perfect to the original. Just for information, should you want/need to up sample or change the bit depth JRiver can do this for you, should you wish ... wouldn't you think it better to have a bit perfect copy and do this processing temporarily using their 64bit engine? Test it, but give it some thought before ripping thousands of CDs. 

Regardless, as long as you stay in lossless, you can change your mind; but once you rip to lossy or to different bit depths/samples, you can't get the original back short of re-ripping.

Not getting into whether you prefer APE to flac, but basically in my most humblest of opinions lossless is lossless. FLAC has the least limitations for handling metadata .. and its open source so that is what I prefer. Also it is possible to rip to FLAC 0 (no compression) so you get basically a non-compressed "wav" file and the flac container for all the extended tag info. I think its silly, but others think its pretty nifty. (I have 4TB of flac files at level 8 compression and I'm a happy camper)

Anyway, Listen to what you want to, how you want to ... but spend more time listening to the music, and less on listening to the equipment. (hehe that's my stupid motto these days,  but I could use a better DAC ).

[Awesome Donkey]

lossless is lossless

This. Couldn't stress this one enough.