INTERACT FORUM

More => Old Versions => Media Center 11 (Development Ended) => Topic started by: Matt on December 06, 2005, 09:13:49 am

Title: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Matt on December 06, 2005, 09:13:49 am
We're looking for good ideas for how to merge the graphical-style Library Browser with the more classic Media Library view.

One important goal is that we don't want to add visual clutter or complexity.

We'll give the owner of the winning solution a free old-school Media Jukebox t-shirt.

Thanks for any help.

[edit by JimH -- changes are now implemented in MC 11.1.074.]
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Myron on December 06, 2005, 09:32:48 am
Why?

Each view has its purpose as well as it's own pros and cons.  I'd rather see them remain separate or at least have the option to retain the separate views we now have in 11.0.

I'd also rather see the weaker parts (like the UPnP server and handling of internet radio) of 11.0 get some needed updating before messing with the parts that already work well.

I've always been a strong proponent of the "form follows function" school of thought.

Just my $0.02......
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Matt on December 06, 2005, 09:45:16 am
Why?

No soup (read t-shirt) for you.
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Myron on December 06, 2005, 10:15:02 am
No soup (read t-shirt) for you.

As Jerry used to say: "That's a shame"  ;)

(Since we're quoting Seinfeld episodes)
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Mr ChriZ on December 06, 2005, 10:18:05 am
I think this is a good idea.  At the very least as I've mentioned before
the toolbar video,images, music, tab-buttons should be merged with the Library browsers
version.

I'm afraid I'm not very graphical so I'm not going to draw it but one Idea had that
 may or may not work is in the Media Library to have a button for each View Item, next to the title for the view item that would take the full pane, or maybe a hovering pane, to a graphical Library browser view of that information?

Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Mr ChriZ on December 06, 2005, 10:32:52 am
Second Idea, Don't change anything just
move it around abit in the tree so that it becomes
-Audio
  -Artist Album
  -File Type
  -Disk Location
  -Graphical View

-Video
  -Calendar
  -...
  -Graphical View

Etc
Which leaves the tree looking neater?

Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Alex B on December 06, 2005, 11:14:36 am
I made my version a couple of days ago, but forgot to post it.

Clicking an album thumbnail would show the details view of the album contents.

I prefer the album thumbnails view over the library browser because the views are configurable.

(http://kotisivu.mtv3.fi/alexb/pix/jamiroquai.jpg)

In this view the thumbnail size is 160x160 and I use this "Pick files to show" rule:
[Media Type]=[Audio] -[Image File]=[] -[CUE track]=[Y (source)] [Lonely]=[].


I could make a new mockup with the buttons and configuration options. It would be  something like this:

[______________]   [______________]   [______________]   [______________]   

(http://kotisivu.mtv3.fi/alexb/pix/aladdinsane.jpg)

Check the previous thread out for details: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=29607.0

Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: LonWar on December 06, 2005, 11:50:30 am
Please, Whatever you do,   DO NOT remove my panes...... That was the selling point when I bought 9.1


Thanks.... Maybe a picture of what you are thinking?
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: bennyd on December 06, 2005, 12:38:32 pm
I like the current Library Browser view as it is but it should be configurable like the Media Library view.

So be able to add/remove custom fields and to have multiple Library Browser views as we have now multiple  library views.

Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: jgreen on December 06, 2005, 01:07:04 pm
Silly question time:  Is there any way to loosen up the controls a bit, so that skin artists can experiment with versions?  I'd rather judge a GUI by trial-and-error.

My suspicion is that the new GUI needs to include the tree function, and still allow the dinosaurs among us (me) to use the old panes, which I love.
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: interbeat on December 06, 2005, 01:43:03 pm
My 2 cents...

Media Library and Library Browser essentially do the same thing, so to merge them is a good idea for the sake of simplicity. I reckon most people predominently use one or the other - I use Media Library because it's customisable, though I prefer Library Browser because it looks nicer.

Rather than try to merge them, I think it would be better to have just one - the operation of which is determined through options; i.e. you choose to have Media Library work like it does now or how Library Browser does. "Library Browser view mode" would reflect how Media Library is set up (the View Schemes), making it customisable which would cause it to show exactly what Theatre View does.

So, to summarise:
- You set up your View Schemes
- You can then view them in "Media Library" or "Library Browser / Theatre View" mode.
- Nice and simple!

Ed.
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: bennyd on December 06, 2005, 01:47:04 pm
My 2 cents...

Media Library and Library Browser essentially do the same thing, so to merge them is a good idea for the sake of simplicity. I reckon most people predominently use one or the other - I use Media Library because it's customisable, though I prefer Library Browser because it looks nicer.

Rather than try to merge them, I think it would be better to have just one - the operation of which is determined through options; i.e. you choose to have Media Library work like it does now or how Library Browser does. "Library Browser view mode" would reflect how Media Library is set up (the View Schemes), making it customisable which would cause it to show exactly what Theatre View does.

So, to summarise:
- You set up your View Schemes
- You can then view them in "Media Library" or "Library Browser / Theatre View" mode.
- Nice and simple!

Ed.

exactly
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Dutch Peter on December 06, 2005, 04:36:43 pm
1. Make Library browser more configurable.

2. Make it possible to use the keybaord after clicking a tab.

Now it works like this:
Click TAB Artists, Click on first artist, used keybaord to find right artist.

I would like the second step to be removed.

3. Make it possible to define defaults per Split View. I would very much like to start with Playing now in the first view and Library Browser in the second.
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: pank2002 on December 06, 2005, 05:35:06 pm
I'd rather see something like this:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/pank2002/CA.png)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/pank2002/Albumview.gif)


I never use the Library browser. It's also very slow on older computers (as in 1.1 Ghz and 256 mb of Ram running Win2k).

Pane should be kept. They are great!
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Jaguu on December 06, 2005, 06:02:14 pm
Completely agree with pank2002.

This kind of tile view displayrd by pank2002 is really missing.

I also never use library browser. It doesn't reflect my personal view schemes and is not configurable at all.

 
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: JustinChase on December 06, 2005, 06:38:28 pm
I'm not very graphical either, but I'm thinking something like pank has shown, but where he has the Artist filed above, show it like you now show the library browser.  In other words, instead of a simple list, the list would show the album art and statistics just like the library browser does now.

Where he shows the album, use what alex has and show all the albums thumbnailed.  I'm not sure how that would work with other viewschemes, with other fields, like file type, or rating or whatever; maybe fields that won't allow thumbs easily can stay as they are, a simple list.

Either way, as you drill down, the bottem view (pane) should show the thumbs large with a list, as pank has shown.

Does that make any sense?  If not, I'll try to paste something together.

In the meantime, why did you remove the a-z selection on the library browser?  I used it all the time.  I have 1700 artists, 1000 albums and 40 genres.  It takes a while to scroll down with so many.  Can it be put back until this is decided, please?
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Tolga on December 06, 2005, 06:40:34 pm
This message unifies ideas from media library view, theater view, and library view.

definitions:
 output: list of results (i.e. list of albums, list of songs etc). Current bottom part of media library view.
 filters: things you select to limit the list output records. Current top part of media library view.

-----------------------
3 ideas (feel free mix and match):
-----------------------

1. graphical Filtering
Motivation: you want to focus to your target using graphical clues instead of text. (i.e. like in theater view).

Change media view so that the album covers can be used in filters not just in outputs. The idea is that I can add an album filter tab, but specify that it will show graphical entries (cover arts) instead of album names. For this to work, you should be able to place this filter to cover most of the screen.
  

2. output summaries:

Provide templates for listing output in aggregated record chunks. For example you should be able to say, show summarize records by album name and album cover. The idea is, the records will have some aggregated properties that is shown only once for each chunk, but then for each individual record, you could have additional properties. Just like switching between thumbnail and list views, you would have the option of turning the details (individual records) on or off.

3. Freedom in screen usage
1. provide more relaxed way or organizing the filters and the output window. I.e. multiple filters on the same column (assume that they are not long), or a graphical filter that takes all of the left half (or bottom, or top) of the screen. This may create problems with current hiearchical way the filters work. (i.e. selecting a filter on the left restricts filters on the right but not visa versa). The most general case is to let the user specify how the filters should depend on each other and have predefined views for the beginners. I don't expect this general solution. So the solution maybe more specific. (i.e. no dependency on the filters that are on the same column, but the regular dependency order is from left to right and top to bottom).







Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Matt on December 06, 2005, 06:42:22 pm
There's a first cut here:
ftp://ftp.jriver.com/pub/downloads/music/tmp/MC_LibraryConcept.zip

Let us know what you think, but please don't report bugs yet.  Look at any Media Library view to see the changes. (Library Browser would be removed since it's included in Media Library)

Thanks for any feedback.
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: JustinChase on December 06, 2005, 06:54:35 pm
Is there a way to go back if I hate it?
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: JimH on December 06, 2005, 07:03:10 pm
Is there a way to go back if I hate it?
Backup the Mediacenter.exe file from your 11.1.73 install and then copy this file to the install directory.  Copy the backup back if you aren't 100% completely satisfied.
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Matt on December 06, 2005, 07:04:32 pm
Is there a way to go back if I hate it?

With that attitude, maybe you should just hold off :P

(reinstalling any build will replace the Media Center.exe posted here)
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: KingSparta on December 06, 2005, 07:17:14 pm
Quote
Maybe a picture of what you are thinking?

did you ever see there picture of the action window when they were thinking about it? it was in chalk
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: JimH on December 06, 2005, 07:27:39 pm
                         MC

        xx xx xx     ^
            
               x>>>>o
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: KingSparta on December 06, 2005, 07:34:22 pm
ASCII Screens, Got To Love Technology

I Don't Seen Anything Broken With The Current Scheme (Other Than Search Is Cleared) when you move from views.

I long for the MJ6 Search Box Again, Woo Is Me
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Mr ChriZ on December 06, 2005, 08:15:57 pm
There's a first cut here:
ftp://ftp.jriver.com/pub/downloads/music/tmp/MC_LibraryConcept.zip

Let us know what you think, but please don't report bugs yet.  Look at any Media Library view to see the changes. (Library Browser would be removed since it's included in Media Library)

Thanks for any feedback.

I like this.  It might be nice if the buttons were customizable in some fashion, depending on
how complex it ended up.
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: LonWar on December 06, 2005, 08:24:49 pm
I really don't see the point.... Sorry guy's. Why not just keep both the way it was...

I don't mean to sound like a jerk.....
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: JimH on December 06, 2005, 08:32:08 pm
Progress marches on.
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: datdude on December 06, 2005, 08:40:36 pm
I like it!

A Few Things though.

1) I use a laptop so I am losing more and more viewing space from top to bottom.  A feature I have always wanted is to minimize the display area ala winamp style across the top of the screen.  This would be necessary with the additional rows of data taken up by the 'buttons'. 

2) I like how it follows your existing view scheme but should have at least default to the end with an 'album' botton as currently my view scheme does not include that in the panes since I can browse albums by thumbnails.  If a user does have album listed in their view scheme, then the default is not included.

3) Of course I would still like a to have vertical split screens and a pop up or some way to view tracks when clickining on an album thumbnail.

Great job though
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: jgreen on December 06, 2005, 09:09:58 pm
Will somebody please post a screenshot so those of us (me) who are afraid to try new things can at least feel involved?

ALSO:  re/DAT and others who are running out of top-to-bottom room--me too!  Let's start splitting things sidw-to-side!  Aspect ratios are getting WIDER!
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: LonWar on December 06, 2005, 09:24:48 pm
Will somebody please post a screenshot so those of us (me) who are afraid to try new things can at least feel involved?

ALSO:  re/DAT and others who are running out of top-to-bottom room--me too!  Let's start splitting things sidw-to-side!  Aspect ratios are getting WIDER!

If you have 11.1 installed, just rename your MediaCenter.exe file to (1) and then run MC with the new exe....
You aren't installing anything, it's just a zipped exe
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: datdude on December 06, 2005, 09:36:08 pm
Another idea that would go along with this new brainstorm is after you select a button, ALL of the LINKS except the one selected should still be available inside each box.  As you drill down further into the different links/categories, the ones you have chosen go away.  This would allow for a non-linear way of finding music which would be AWESOME.  Currently you can only drill down from left to right.

Also the Artist font is too big and is often cut off in the library view.

More things to think about:

I have my view scheme set to random sort and the library view keeps this logic.  This is bad for library style view and should be ignored in my opnion or at least allowed to be disjunct from the scheme.

The Alpahbet at the top should only show up under buttons/fileds that apply to that condition.

In normal library view before this new integration, you used to see the butotns change with the your selections and this is not held true now but should be or create a back and forward button.
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: jgreen on December 06, 2005, 09:49:32 pm
11.0.314
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: darichman on December 06, 2005, 10:32:42 pm
I love it! Especially the way it incorporates your existing view schemes and even custom fields. As long as it's all configurable (including the ability to switch it on and off in the individual view scheme options ~ I'll want it for some of my view schemes but not others!) it has my thumbs up  :)

Partially off-topic question: Would it be too difficult to have customisability of the thumbnail image shown (ie depending on what filter is being used). I would love to be able to say: If field = X display image Y. But I guess this would be a whole new interface...

Eg if I filter my photos by [Person], it would be good if I could say: if[Person] = JimH then display image JimH.jpg, instead of just cycling through the photos in the album (which doesn't really make sense in this case). The same could be done for artists (using artist images).

A bit ambitious, I know, but the thread topic does say "Brainstorm". Any thoughts?
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: bennyd on December 07, 2005, 12:47:07 am
I like it, maybe also an option in which mode to start by default (now it always starts in list mode, maybe an option to start in the graphical mode)
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Tolga on December 07, 2005, 12:54:38 am
There's a first cut here:
ftp://ftp.jriver.com/pub/downloads/music/tmp/MC_LibraryConcept.zip


I liked the premise. I liked this better than some of the ideas I threw earlier. So I don't deserve a shirt. QED.

My 2 cents updated:

Remove Links on the groups (use top buttons instead)
I would get rid of individual links on each group. Do we want 40 links on a screen? Instead, the top buttons would have the same (and a more general) function. Select a subset of groups, and hit the top buttons to apply the filter and change view.

For example:

Select Rock and Musical in the genre view, Hit Albums to see all albums in the Rock and Musical genres combined.

 8) If you think about it, this mechanism exactly corresponds to make multiple selections on a view item, and then pushing on a group button corresponds moving to a different view item using tab key.

Folders
I want a folder button on the top, which shows me the folders starting at my specified base location. Of course only the folders that are not eliminated in my previous filterings (just like the current location view item). I want to double click on one of the folders to get into the folder to further limit the selected items. (again, just like its corresponding view item). The cool part is that this would work very similar to explorer. (but a generalized explorer combined with other filters).

Thumbnails:
How about theater view style composite thumbnails that summarize the groups?

Advanced view with view item filters
To view and locate things I think we don't need view item filters anymore (see equivalence argument above).  But for tagging they would be still useful.

Idea: Optional split window for view items. [Check the new groups function on Skype 2.0 Beta for a user friendly implementation]. As I argued above, any selection with this view will have a corresponding view item selection that will be visible when the split window is down. [call it advanced view].

Dinasour view
option to switch back to thumbnail and list views for backward compatibility.
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Tolga on December 07, 2005, 01:05:38 am
Select Rock and Musical in the genre view, Hit Albums to see all albums in the Rock and Musical genres combined.

I have now realized that the old library browser works exactly with this logic. I am all for it. I haven't played with it much because I don't use regular tag names.
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: GHammer on December 07, 2005, 08:18:29 am
The 'First Cut' looks good to me.

I'd make the font size smaller for the album names once in the cover browser though.
If there were a way to have a popup list when you hover over a cover that would be cool too.
But I do like the ease of changing between a list and the graphical representation.

Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: pank2002 on December 07, 2005, 10:07:01 am
I've tried the first take on the new view, and my first though was 'Why?'. I don't see myself ever using it in the form it is in now! As I see it, it's just simplified panes or something like that. (Sorry for being negative).

The 'Show all'-button is nice, though.

I think one should be able to click on fx 'Audio' and change the view to 'Images'/what ever rather than having to click on the button in the upper left corner.

If you select an artist in the panes and click 'Albums' MC will show all albums rather than just the albums of the given artist.

I'd like to be able to select the tracks from a given album without having to click on 'files'. Maybe Artist-->Album, and then a view as suggest in my picture above. I.e. a 'File' + 'Album' mutant! That might be Shangri-La of Media Center!

Alt+Arrow keys don't work in the new view.

edit: Speling :)
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: lee269 on December 07, 2005, 01:40:03 pm
Im not in a position to try the betas right now, but would some braver soul than me be prepared to post a screenshot of the 'first cut'?
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: pank2002 on December 07, 2005, 02:30:38 pm
It's not that exciting

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/pank2002/mc_beta.png)

When you click on one of the 'tabs' in the top it will change to the library browser.
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Dutch Peter on December 07, 2005, 02:50:18 pm
Could a search field per view be part of this re-design?
Now, if multiple views (of the new design) are used, all views are filtered.
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: ichkriegediekriese on December 07, 2005, 04:05:53 pm
"First cut" doesn t look bad. You still have the complexibility of the lmedia browser and via the buttons it easier to change to library view.
 
t would just be sad to loose the original "media library view" its the most efficient way to find and browse through your media.
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: jgreen on December 07, 2005, 05:10:33 pm
I think this is pretty exciting.  Congrats jriver! (Now that I've finally gotten a look at it--thanks pank.)

1.  I keep thinking of this as an enhancement to library browser, not a replacement for media library view. 

2.  Dutch's comment re/view-specific searches has my vote!  I always keep a view for PN while I search, and I always have to reset it to drag-and-drop.

3.  Since we're making wild requests, you see the progress bar at the top?  What would happen if you laid a row of ten buttons just below it, "radio preset" buttons.  You could right-click and add custom view schemes like you currently do in the tree.  WHOAH!

4.  And again:  What if you through in a vertical split view?

5.  I like where you're heading with this, guys.  But some of us aren't quite ready to lose the media library completely.
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Matt on December 07, 2005, 05:15:25 pm
The build going up in a few minutes will feature the second cut of this idea.  We like it.  Hopefully you will too.

You may want to do Edit > Reset All View Schemes... if you haven't done much customization to see the default look.

Let us know what you think.  Thanks.
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: bytestar on December 07, 2005, 05:38:32 pm
I white not which I say simply better!  :D  the new merged library / browser view.

It is simply good  :)  :)
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: LonWar on December 07, 2005, 05:40:22 pm
If you have a lot of panes in a view, and click on a tab, the links under the tiles don't look right.

I can email a shot of what I mean if you like
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: pank2002 on December 07, 2005, 05:54:25 pm
The newest build is better. Still, I prefer panes.

When having a complicated view the hyperlinks are screwed up. I have tried to illustrate it with the following ASCII graphic of a entry in my iPod view.

[Cover Art]
Bo Kaspers Ork... (should be Orkestra)
...y iPod genres artist album f... (files and play aren't shown)

A higher resolution version of the no-coverart logo should be produced. It's not-so-good at the moment. Maybe a vector logo if MC can read vector-graphic.

It would be nice if file view could be turned on by default. Sometimes it starts in animated mode when one click on a given view.

It's still not exactly my cup of tea, but, as stated above it has gotten better. Still I would prefer a more album focused way of browsing the music, but that's merely my personal opinion.

Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Matt on December 07, 2005, 06:00:56 pm
Let me point out a few of the changes:

Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: JaredH on December 07, 2005, 06:15:56 pm
I think what you've got going with today's build is really going somewhere. Simplicity being the key here, I think it is only progression that you merge the two "Library" modes. It's just a matter of arrangement now.

Personally, I would like to see panes remain an integral part of the Library. I would also like to be able to delete particular "root" view schemes that I do not use.

However, I would be past the point of persuaded to keep all of them if there were an option, much like "Jump to Playing now (If Has Display), to "Play in Window (If Has Display)". There are a couple programs out there that will launch videos in a new window that dynamically resizes to the source resolution of the video. That is really the only reason I don't use MC for videos. It forces your video into whatever size Playing Now's viewable area happens to be.

That seemed more off topic, but I can bring it home with this. If those small abilities were implemented into MC's core along with the combined "Media Library/Library Browser" and the ability to horizontally scroll through images and videos in the list, I think the culmination of all that is right in the world of media management will have finally come to pass.

Sorry guys, I'm wordy.
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Jaguu on December 07, 2005, 06:16:29 pm
Hi Matt,

I definitely like it, especially the fact that the selection buttons reflect the panes. That's really a great idea, so there is no need for a separate browsers confiuration.

What I do not understand is why you repeat the selections on every icon. Don't see any reason for that except that you do not have to move the mouse to the top. This to me looks a little cumbersome and disturbs the harmony of having just icons with a title.

By the way, MyDocuments is still there. Didn't you say you dropped it?
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Matt on December 07, 2005, 06:25:22 pm
What I do not understand is why you repeat the selections on every icon. Don't see any reason for that except that you do not have to move the mouse to the top. This to me looks a little cumbersome and disturbs the harmony of having just icons with a title.

It looks nicer with less text, but in internal usability testing we watched people get confused when filtering happened automatically after making a selection. 

Also, how easy and fast something is to use is correlated to how much mouse movement is needed. (this was what bothered me when the links weren't there)

Quote
By the way, MyDocuments is still there. Didn't you say you dropped it?

It's there by default, but you can delete it by hand if you like.  We only removed the documents "Media Mode" from below the search box.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Matt on December 07, 2005, 06:28:10 pm
As an aside, the new browser scheme defaults didn't get merged into the build.  Basically, we removed "Advanced" from the root and added the items to their respective media type group.  You can also do this by hand.  Tomorrow's build will be updated.
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: JaredH on December 07, 2005, 06:30:08 pm
What I do not understand is why you repeat the selections on every icon. Don't see any reason for that except that you do not have to move the mouse to the top. This to me looks a little cumbersome and disturbs the harmony of having just icons with a title.

I personally prefer the way the buttons reflect the button style of the skin. The way they were before required styling new individual buttons to match your skin. This way theres one standard skin for the buttons.
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Jaguu on December 07, 2005, 06:37:31 pm
You may have to add some grammatical rules for the plurals of the field names, e.g.

the field "artist" becomes "artists" in plural
but
a user defined field such as "gallery" does not work by simply adding an "s". The plural of "gallery" is "galleries", but it displays as "gallerys", which is wrong!
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: datdude on December 07, 2005, 08:05:00 pm
'Library browser tiles allow bi-directional filtering: show "artists for a genre" or "genres for an artist." (also useful in image views like People / Places / Events)'

Woo hoo...

Suggestions:

1) The tiles need to be wider as the main font is getting cut off and there is not enough room for all of the links such as 'files' which I can't get to after drilling down through the tiles.

2) Add a drop down box next to the buttons that allows you to select saved view schemes

3) My view scheme includes a playlist category which when selected under a link in a tile, is sorted by artist name rather than the different playlist names.  Is this possible to change?  If not then don't allow that as a link since it takes up space.

4) Toolbar buttons for List style: details and thumbnails should still be able to work even when in tile view.


Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: GHammer on December 07, 2005, 08:34:39 pm
When I am in album view then click on files for an album I sure enough go to those files.
But there is no easy way to return to the same place in the album browser after looking at files.

Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: GHammer on December 07, 2005, 08:36:57 pm
In startup interface options there is the option to start in Media Library or Library Browser.
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Matt on December 07, 2005, 08:48:32 pm
When I am in album view then click on files for an album I sure enough go to those files.
But there is no easy way to return to the same place in the album browser after looking at files.

Try "back."  It works everywhere in the program.  (use backspace or mouse button)
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Matt on December 07, 2005, 08:51:02 pm
2) Add a drop down box next to the buttons that allows you to select saved view schemes

The tree is the way to switch view schemes.  We don't want to complicate that by providing two systems to pick a view. (or am I misunderstanding?)

Thanks.
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: datdude on December 07, 2005, 09:05:35 pm
You got it. 

Unfortunately I don't really use the tree view and try to avoid  it by hiding it, plus I think new users might actually start using views more if it showed up in the main interface and it would be a very streamlined way of choosing views(which you can do anything with and should not be de-emphasized to the tree view).  Just my opinion though.

The only way I will start using the tree view/left hand side of MC, is if there is permanent adjustable (in size, and what is shown) playing now/display area. Maybe tabs?
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Tolga on December 07, 2005, 10:34:21 pm
This is getting closer to the ultimate point.

I personally prefer bi-directional filtering, so I agree with that choice. (I was arguing for that in MC 11 view schemes too).

I don't like repeated filter links below icons, and it seems there is not sufficient space anyway. Instead, I suggest to use top buttons as filters. To give visual clue to the user, the filters that have a selection maybe highlighted. There should be a way to reset all or a particular filter. I am not sure how. (double click on the filter button, for single filter reset and a seperate reset all button?)

Earlier I argued for theater view style icons. Now I guess I prefer the rotating thumbnails better. Good job.

If you can add folders to this, with Auto Import, I am ready to buy MC12.

Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: hit_ny on December 07, 2005, 11:50:40 pm
Anyone want to post some pics of this new look ?

Not ready just yet to jump into 11.1 yet.
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: datdude on December 08, 2005, 12:28:27 am
Another idea is to make a drop down list for the links in each tile.  It coudl be titled 'select' and work almost exactly like when you are  tagging a field in the list view.  It would save space and you could have as many view fields as you wanted. ;D
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: bennyd on December 08, 2005, 01:04:00 am
No easy way to go back to your previous selection (except when using the back button, but that's confusing for new users)

Maybe put a back button more visible somewhere ?

Once selected something and you're in files mode, you can't see what your selection exactly was.
Maybe add some sort of breadcrumb so you can see where you come from and you can click on each path to go back to a previous state ?
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Dutch Peter on December 08, 2005, 01:05:46 am
Using 11.1.74 I tried to change the size of the tiles through 'customize view'. It does not work.
For me the current tiles are to big on my 15'' screen.
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: bennyd on December 08, 2005, 01:06:58 am
I think it's confusing when selecting an album and then clicking on files on the top bar, it shows all files instead of the files of that album. Maybe rename the buttons to "All Files", "All Albums" etc.
So we know that we have to click on the icon "Files" to have it filtered.
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: bennyd on December 08, 2005, 01:15:23 am
Clicking on "ctrl" to select multiple items is ok, but then if you want to see the files for your selected items you have to click on one of the icons its "files", this is confusing for new users.
Maybe (as noted above), use some breadcumb system that reflects what you select (if multiple albums selected, show "multiple albums" etc.

eg:

Pop -> Multiple Albums Selected -> Files

or

Pop -> X & Y -> Files

or

Multiple Genres Selected -> One Way Ticket To Hell And Back -> Files


This way we don't need a back button but can always click on the breadcrumb item to go to a previous filtered state and this way we can easily see what our selection was if we're in File mode
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: GHammer on December 08, 2005, 03:17:48 am
Try "back." It works everywhere in the program. (use backspace or mouse button)
Which mouse button is 'Back'?
Right or left click does nothing.

Since there are already multiple buttons there, an arrow to return to where you were wouldn't be out of place.
Title: Re: BRAINSTORM: Merge Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: hit_ny on December 08, 2005, 04:01:50 am
Let me point out a few of the changes:
  • Library Browser fields mimic the view schemes, making them fully customizable unlike before.
Can someone confirm whether this allows filters to be used like step 4 with viewschemes ?

For instance i would tell it to avoid files with certain tags. eg Cue source files so i only see the cue items in the library browser.
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Tolga on December 08, 2005, 06:43:54 am
It looks nicer with less text, but in internal usability testing we watched people get confused when filtering happened automatically after making a selection. 

Also, how easy and fast something is to use is correlated to how much mouse movement is needed. (this was what bothered me when the links weren't there)


Matt,

- Highlighting the buttons for the fields that have a selection could counter that confusion.
- Using tabs to move between buttons could simplify the long mouse movement problem.

If you really want local selection, the links could appear when you are on a thumbnail, but I don't know how to deal with not enough space for all the links problem. Maybe smarttag or tooltip kind of thing is the solution.

Tolga
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: JimH on December 08, 2005, 08:35:50 am
Which mouse button is 'Back'?
Right or left click does nothing.
You can add a back button to the top or button.

Some mice have a back button.
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: JONCAT on December 08, 2005, 08:53:12 am
I like where this is going but simplicity? Many people use panes and view schemes to achieve what they want of course we still need a file view for albums. Library Browser
is convoluted right now but it should still be implemented into the pane view; it needs an overall however.

If your panes are Genre, Artist, Album, Name then in your Main Audio scheme your not going to see Files in Library Browser Albums...too many fields. CLUTTERED. Some of us have to use increased DPI on our systems; as large monitors become cheaper I see this becoming more prevalent. Even on 8 size font MB looks cluttered w/ cut off values. Do I care that I have 49 hours of a particular genre and 768 files in there? I thought Matt said it was customizable and that would be nice but it just seems the there is too much going on in MB. Take the album thumbnail which soo many people love.
     I configure  it to maximize the albums I can see at 260x260 and I have the album name underneath....simple and clean....if that album name was a link that allowed a pane to pop up below with all the files right there...wouldn't that be a whole lot more concise. But still the concept of clicking on Files to go into a new window defeats the purpose of MC and it's panes view i.e. seeming multiple things at once.  Maybe keep this function but what is essential and in dire need is the Album Thumbnail File List Pane. Below I have outlined a streamlined solution that I know a LOT of people are waiting for, and MB isn't going to cut it.

ALEX B was speaking for a lot of people when he mentioned a file list of album thumbnails. I think this is a great idea about actually implementing it & I'd like some feedback.

What about adding a minimizable window at the bottom: basically a new pane below so when you minimize "classic" panes above> you have all your album thumbanils> maximize (just as you minmize the tree and "classic" panes) the bottom pane which displays whatever files you have selected according to the respective album thumbnails selected.

It would look just as ALEX B pictured at the beginning of this thread, but you could hide it to browse all your thumbs.
(http://kotisivu.mtv3.fi/alexb/pix/jamiroquai.jpg)




That way you could really leave the "classic" pane behavior alone and simply add a new, independent function that would be there if people want it. God this would be perfect, then we can even have at most "classic" panes on top, album thumbnails in the middle, and a album file view at the bottom or you can use whichever combination suits your need.

Also, I see how Library Browser could really integrate exceptionally well with this idea. You navigate to an Artist or Genre and when you choose Albums>>>

(what about using a Theatre View type command such as "Open or Play Now" (again I think allowing customization is the key)

>>>>into the Album Thumbnail View that I described; "classic" panes on top (and minimizable ALL THE WAY TO THE TOP OF THE SCREEN (with remotes and mouses becoming so interactive sometimes I simply want more screen space for a while or at least the option and don't need the functions at the top for a while), album thumbs in the middle, and below the minimizable Album Thumbnail File List Pane.
 So in this sense Library Browser behaves the same but once you select files there is the new option of a pane below which is basically a split view. Once you have found your Genre or Artist I think you then want to see what your looking for so having it open into this thumb or automatic view would be perfec , but it needs to be easier like a double click Opens that Genre or Artist directly to the Files view whereas a Play button could remain below. This would be fast...find genre, find artist, double-click (or select play), and view thumbnails or automatic view. Is this concept summed up by saying "bottom panes" = Album Thumbnail File List Pane?? Is the horse dead yet?

Visually integrating Library Browser means allowing it to be customized (font size/fields) but what about small abbreviated buttons instead that could have a scroll over text window pop up to avoid confusing for some esoteric fields.

What y'all think?

thanks
JC
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: GHammer on December 08, 2005, 10:07:09 am
You can add a back button to the top or button.

Some mice have a back button.
Some don't. ;)

Point being, it is unintuitive. I was 'here' went 'there' don't see a way to get back.
Switching back and forth from mouse to keyboard is so 1980s.

Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Tanguero on December 08, 2005, 10:18:04 am
Probably good if you need it, but for me, it basically means a line of buttons I don't need taking valuable space. I can see two ways around this:

1) Make the buttons (and implicitly the Library Browser functions?) optional by ticking/unticking a box in the Tree & View options.

2) Find a space somewhere in the top of the window for a button to show/hide the buttons (placed where it doesn't take list space).

The second alternative is probably the best, provided that you can find a good space. I am aware, though, that this means a change in the most stable part of the interface.

Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Matt on December 08, 2005, 10:24:38 am
Switching back and forth from mouse to keyboard is so 1980s.

So is using a mouse from 1980 ;)
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Tanguero on December 08, 2005, 10:47:35 am
I just moved my previous Customize Current View post, in changed form to the 11.1.74 thread http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=30603.msg210740#msg210740;

 it seemed a better place for it.



Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: runemail on December 08, 2005, 11:23:43 am
Ok, i think this is a promissing improvement to the ui.

Still needs some work, When i double click an artist i would like to jump to that artists albums. And then when i select album by double clicking, i would like to display that albums tracks in a similar way, and not in panes, this should be an option at least.

And i think the "showing only some files" message is just confusing, It should at least say "Showing (only) files/tracks from (album) by (artist)"
The "Show all files" button should be replaced with a "back to albums by (artist)". Show all files can still be done by clicking "Files" button at the top (and it should be named "tracks" or even better "all tracks" when in audio mode).

I think the current top buttons are ugly and not very functional. The Button style in the old library browser was better.

Something like this is what i hope for:

(http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/3117/mediabrowser9yn.th.jpg) (http://img472.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mediabrowser9yn.jpg)

Kind of like a library browser on steroids.

Not shure about the playing now at the bottom, but this would be a nice and easy way to browse and play using just my mouse/remote. Drag and drop to/in Playing now should be implemented. For me this, or something similar, would be the ultimate interface for my "htpc", as well as for casual browsing.
The left pane is just hidden and can be brought back the usual way to access the action window and tree.
There should also be a "ToggleBrowse" button to go back to regular panes.


Anyway i think it's a good idea to make the new library interface with a lot of configuration options for now. 

 
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Dutch Peter on December 08, 2005, 02:11:42 pm
I really (really, really) would like a search function added:

(http://vandekragt.net/MC11/mockup.jpg)

This way I would be able to flexibly search in the library in view 1 without affecting Playing Now in view 2. The result could be dragged & dropped from the filtered view to the right spot in Playing Now.

SUPER!!!
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Dutch Peter on December 08, 2005, 03:17:00 pm
Some comments based on this screenshot (no mockup):

(http://vandekragt.net/MC11/tiles.jpg)

> Tiles are big and non configurable
> The options at the bottom of the tile are centered and difficultly reached.
In case off images I can not choose the option 'files'.
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: datdude on December 08, 2005, 04:07:13 pm
I think a drop down 'select' box in each tile could solve the issue of links being cut off.  This would make navigation effortless. 

I really do like seeing the librray browser in its current incarnation with just a few tweaks could be perfrect.
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: edbro on December 08, 2005, 06:29:31 pm
I can't change the view scheme in the new library browser. The tiles are too big for my little laptop. When I change the tile size, it doesn't seem to do anything except for the view in Disk Location.
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Matt on December 08, 2005, 06:31:16 pm
Another version just went up.  It uses the "bread crumbs" idea posted by BennyD.

Let us know what you think.
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Mike Noe on December 08, 2005, 08:13:29 pm
Man, I'm really diggin' it so far.  Breadcrumbs works, not sure about the UI aspect, but it's very handy.  My wife has been over my shoulder and really digs it as well.

Wish I had something more useful to add.....maybe later....
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: park on December 08, 2005, 08:52:18 pm
Hi,
Maybe something is wrong for me, but navigation is a mess. I cant see any of the info at the bottom of the tile.
Double clicking on the tile doesnt do anything (it should enter it, right?), the exclamation mark button is obscure, and I really dislike having to use a drop down menu. It feels as though all of the information is being hidden.
I read that highlighting panes would be multi-directional. How is this possible when you can only select one pane at a time from a drop down list?
Here is a screenshot of what I am seeing:

(http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/4513/mcscreenshotcopy4lu.th.jpg) (http://img360.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mcscreenshotcopy4lu.jpg)

Also, I really have to say, that I like seeing the list (or in my case the album thumbnails) down under my panes (or library tiles in this case).
I have them sorted by "last played" so that as I am filtering along the top, the list at the bottom is constantly refined and filtered too.
Maybe you could make the "album" and "files" tiles and permant fixture in the bottom half of the screen (with a button to toggle which you want to see), and that would make space in the tiles in the top half to display other pane info. Clicking a tile at the top would update the tiles below.
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: park on December 08, 2005, 08:59:14 pm
One more thing  :)
I think that the tiles should throw up a random image, not the first alphabetical one.
Maybe when you are hovering over a tile, it could scroll through alphabetically.
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Matt on December 08, 2005, 09:21:51 pm
Maybe something is wrong for me, but navigation is a mess.

...

I read that highlighting panes would be multi-directional. How is this possible when you can only select one pane at a time from a drop down list?

Try a view scheme like "Genre / Artist / Album" where the links at the bottom of the tile are usable.  We're still thinking about how to handle very large view schemes.

Quote
Also, I really have to say, that I like seeing the list (or in my case the album thumbnails) down under my panes (or library tiles in this case).

Click the "Files" link in a tile.  Use back (or the bread crumb list at the top) to flip back.
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Tolga on December 08, 2005, 09:31:48 pm
Another version just went up.  It uses the "bread crumbs" idea posted by BennyD.

Let us know what you think.

I didn't like the pull down replacement for filter buttons. I fail to see the point. With buttons, you can see all filter options before you select them, important if you work with multiple views.

 Squeezing links on thumbnails doesn't work either. I see more dots than any readable characters and I don't see how I can have more than 4-5 filters. See my earlier posts for suggestions on that.



Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: JONCAT on December 08, 2005, 10:14:49 pm
"I didn't like the pull down replacement for filter buttons. I fail to see the point. With buttons, you can see all filter options before you select them, important if you work with multiple views."

I agree, now you have to have use two mouse clicks instead of one....so 80's  ;)

Could you have a bar the actively snaps out from the left when you mouse over the area; or make it configurable like an an auto-hide feature?

PLEASE consider ALEX B's proposal (and mine) to integrate a file pane beneath the album thumbanil view; this is essential and honestly so intuitive I still can't fathom why we  haven't seen its implementation.

thanks
JC
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Matt on December 08, 2005, 10:33:07 pm
I agree, now you have to have use two mouse clicks instead of one....so 80's  ;)

Agreed.  We'll change this somehow tomorrow.

Quote
PLEASE consider ALEX B's proposal (and mine) to integrate a file pane beneath the album thumbanil view; this is essential and honestly so intuitive I still can't fathom why we  haven't seen its implementation.

The argument against this is that we don't want to clutter a clean screen look, but it could be hidden with the splitter locked at the bottom by default.  However, does it work to tap the "Files" link and the "Back" button to simulate the same thing?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: GHammer on December 08, 2005, 10:34:22 pm
It is working well for me in this build (75).
Less cluttered and easy to get back to where I was.
I agree with the 'clicks' issue, but then again I do like the 'cleaner' look this way.
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: GHammer on December 08, 2005, 10:35:40 pm
Can we have the tiny thumbnails in files list back now?
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: datdude on December 08, 2005, 10:37:22 pm
Try a view scheme like "Genre / Artist / Album" where the links at the bottom of the tile are usable.  We're still thinking about how to handle very large view schemes.

I like having the links down there.  There is really only 2 ways do that though.  1) A drop down list. 2) have the links 'read' accross the bottom of the tile and base the direction of their movement upon which side of the tile the mouse is closest to.

It would be nice to be able to re-sort on the fly when in library view.  The main one I want to be able to sort by is number of files in a category/tile.   Make the choices dynamic based upon the current field selected.
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: JaredH on December 09, 2005, 12:23:33 am
I would definitely hope that there will be the choice to have your library start up in either graphical or file mode. Seems that would be the wisest move, seeing as the percentage of users using Media Library and Library Browser is almost split right down the middle.
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: bennyd on December 09, 2005, 12:46:37 am
Thanks Matt for considering the "bread crumb" style.
Now we can see where we are and go back easy.

The drop down with the button next to it seemed confusing to me until I used it, then it makes sense.

Don't know for new users how they will react though.

I like the bidirectonial possibility.

Can't we have a "Play selected" button on top instead of clicking Play on one of the Icons ?
(Like in Playlists, Smartlists etc.)

Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Dutch Peter on December 09, 2005, 12:56:47 am
I hoped for a drop down in the tile, not in the header.
Personally I do not think is an enhancement. It makes the navigation less intuitive.
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Dutch Peter on December 09, 2005, 12:59:58 am
In earlier versions I could click a Artist tile and type 'Robbie' to get to any artist starting with Robbie.
That does not work anymore. Very much a drawback as long as a separate search is not available.
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: JONCAT on December 09, 2005, 07:17:38 am
MATT,

"The argument against this is that we don't want to clutter a clean screen look, but it could be hidden with the splitter locked at the bottom by default.  However, does it work to tap the "Files" link and the "Back" button to simulate the same thing?"

Yes the splitter would be essential and the whole thing could be locked to the bottom. The key is that this is different behavior from how you currently navigate through Genre, Artist, Album, Name.....now, using panes above or album thumbnails, your albums track names are highlighted in red. I say keep that but just add this "bottom" pane which like you said could be hidden by the splitter tab. Then you ad a whole way to use MC e.g. browse your thumbs with this new bottom track/name pane open below. I'll bet you'll get a lot of feedback on what to include there from everyone here...it could be dedicated to tracks or have full pane functionality...I think it has endless possabilities.

In a similar vein, you guys should entertain the possability of having the top panes also able to maximize to the top of the screen..a good 20% of the screen is used up, albeit w/ important stuff, but we don't alwasy need access to this what with all our 80's mice and  interactive keyboards.

This would stay on the track of "Simple & Clean"...when you can minimize or maximize the screen to shape your work habits of MC ( a screen 100% full of album covers that I can click on a play wold be simple indeed)The splitter tab is genius and you guys need to experiment with it.  Please give this a try if you can and we'll drool over it, I mean beta test i.

thanks,
Jonathan
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Matt on December 09, 2005, 08:58:16 am
I would definitely hope that there will be the choice to have your library start up in either graphical or file mode. Seems that would be the wisest move, seeing as the percentage of users using Media Library and Library Browser is almost split right down the middle.

It already does this.  It will start where you left it last.
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Alex B on December 09, 2005, 10:08:57 am
Is this going to be "finalized" soon? Personally, I have not had enough time to fully explore this in real-life use. I have some thoughts, but nothing good enough to post here yet.

I like to explain once again what I have used in MC11 and what I have found problematic with MC11 Library Browser.

Besides a detailed view with about 40 library fields visible (by horizontal scrolling) I have used a view, which allows me to see the albums like they were in a CD self at a store. The front covers are visible and the albums are sorted by "Album Artist/Album" rule. The view looks nice and I found MC11.0 to be fast enough for scrolling over 2000 album covers - no problems at all with that. The problem is, when I select one of the albums and like to quickly see the detailed contents, MC11.0 can't do that. I must trust my memory or go through the slow route and then back again.

My album browser:

(http://kotisivu.mtv3.fi/alexb/pix/browser/mybrowser_s.jpg) (http://kotisivu.mtv3.fi/alexb/pix/browser/mybrowser.jpg)
Click to enlarge. (http://kotisivu.mtv3.fi/alexb/pix/browser/mybrowser.jpg)

I have used these settings for the view:

(http://kotisivu.mtv3.fi/alexb/pix/browser/custview.png) (http://kotisivu.mtv3.fi/alexb/pix/browser/scheme.png)
The rule in "Step 4" filters unwanted library items off:
Code: [Select]
[Media Type]=[Audio] -[Image File]=[] -[CUE track]=[Y (source)] [Lonely]=[] ~sort=[Album Artist (auto)],[Album]


Here is how Library Browser shows the same part of my library:

(http://kotisivu.mtv3.fi/alexb/pix/browser/libbrowser_s.jpg) (http://kotisivu.mtv3.fi/alexb/pix/browser/libbrowser.jpg)
Click to enlarge. (http://kotisivu.mtv3.fi/alexb/pix/browser/libbrowser.jpg)

It has obvious problems: the images are too small, over 50% of the display space is wasted, various lonely single tracks are included, only the album artist is visible, not separate albums (I need to see both at the same time) and it is UGLY. The only advantage is the quicker access to the album contents.


The new reincarnation fixes many things, but as I said, I need to play more with it before I can make conclusions.
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Jaguu on December 09, 2005, 10:11:59 am
Some suggestions / ideas after trying out the last version:

1) It would be more elegant if album selection would happen by hovering the mouse over a picture instead of clicking the mouse.

2) Single-clicking on a picture should drop one level deeper

3) Double-clicking on a picture should start playing music, video or a slide-show depending on media type

4) Clicking on the title line should open a) kind of a smart tag with all the selections or b) drop one level deeper

5) The font size of the title could be a little smaller, maybe use some narrow font

6) What about file counting like Outlook instead of a separate line: instead of 34 files, just Title(34)

7) the used space/album information is not really useful unless you have a handheld. This could go to the status line depending on how many albums were selected.

8 ) Additional information could also be displayed on a popup window when an album is selected

9) Definitely don't like the fact that when clicking on the picture and clicking on the title nothing happens.

10) Selection could also be put on the context menu. Right clicking the mouse is an established way of performing some actions everywhere in the Windows world. Don't understand why this is not used more as "Play" is already there.

11) There should be a button that allows cycling through all the additional view schemes below the main view schemes audio, image, video so that the menu panel could be hidden altogether
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: GHammer on December 09, 2005, 10:19:17 am
So is using a mouse from 1980 ;)

So why do I have to switch between mouse and keyboard?
Oh, I see, I need to use the hardware you use.

Just let me know in the notes...
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: JONCAT on December 09, 2005, 11:38:01 am
I cut & pasted my idea into this, you may have to look close for the small splitter tab at the top of the bottom pane, but it sticks out becauase I couldn't integrate it very well. I think having a splitter at the top would be killer so you could max out the screen with album thumbs 100%

(http://www.catuccio.net/Clipboard0final2.jpg)

Here's a few problems/ideas I am having with/for the alpha.

cheers,
Jonathan

1. Ripping always rips all cd’s in the trays if you have multiple cd drives even if you tell it to rip only one.

2. An option to simply MOVE UP/MOVE DOWN view schemes in the tree so we can actually order them the way we want.

3. Theatre View more intuitive: treat as folders, double click to go in, right click to Play,   Add, Search. Currently, you have to do too many right clicks to get into a view scheme and the wheel mouse won't initially let you scroll unless you tab over to your items or right click and cancel which leaves the item highlighted so you can then scroll. For a Theatre View so much space is wasted with the control buttons on the left which have to be bigger for the thumbs to be larger. Why not just integrate the function in a right click and have double click navigate into folders or even try a pane view that contains track names for the thumb you have highlighted.

 
4. For PLAYLISTS:

Have an option to define some parameters for each playlist. I have playlists which are both compilations (not-mixed for archival purposes) and mixes (mixed for effect/style)....it would be great to be able to define some burning parameters or even playback parameters for these various playlists.

For example, when I am at home I usually listen with fades (90% of the time). When I go to burn a mix for someone I invariably forget to change the bunring paramters because usually I am burning cd's in gapless or "standard" mode. This leads to the idea that being able to define both playlists or certain albums as "gapless" or "apply fades" etc. would be invaluable. I'm guessing this would have to be an MC function and not tagged to the files/albums.

This would be a really exceptional & progressive feature of MC12; I don't know if it has been mentioned (or how hard it would be to implement) but I'd like to hear what you all think.
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Tolga on December 09, 2005, 12:10:04 pm
Some suggestions / ideas after trying out the last version:

2) Single-clicking on a picture should drop one level deeper

3) Double-clicking on a picture should start playing music, video or a slide-show depending on media type

4) Clicking on the title line should open a) kind of a smart tag with all the selections or b) drop one level deeper

6) What about file counting like Outlook instead of a separate line: instead of 34 files, just Title(34)

9) Definitely don't like the fact that when clicking on the picture and clicking on the title nothing happens.


I second these. I particularly liked 2, 3 and I strongly support 4. I agree that this functionality could be added to right-click but i don't find it very user friendy.
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: park on December 09, 2005, 12:28:18 pm
Ok, so now I get it! Now I get how you the whole navigation thing is multi-directional. I like it.

Thing is, I was looking for a way to do that, and even then it took me a while. I cant see how a new user would get how it works. I was always clicking on one tile and then "files", or, clicking on the drop-down menu each time, which in essance was resetting the filtering.

At the moment, it's easy to remember to select just the tiles you want while you are deciding what to play, but (and this is my biggest criticism of the new system) it's too easy to forget the select all of the tiles in view when you are ready to click on "files". I constantly just select one of the tiles and then click "files" (thinking that everything in view will be shown) only to be surprised and bewildered to see just a small bunch of files in front of me.

I think it would be more intuitive if the tiles didnt have links for each of the "view items". Instead, after selecting one or more tiles, a second drop down menu should appear along the top, which you use to go the next level in, and the same again when you make a new selection. So in essence, those "breadcrumbs" would each be drop down menus.

Any reason why that wouldnt work?
Also, in my last post (on page 2 of this thread) I put up a screen shot showing that the button to the left of the drop down menu is just an exclamation mark for me. I still dont really know what this button is supposed to do, and is it an exclamation mark for everyone else too?

Thanks,
Bri
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: JONCAT on December 09, 2005, 01:58:46 pm
Yes, I see the exclamation point as well...I believe it just takes you backl out to your first field right? So if I'm in files I pop out to Genre.

So am I right in a ssuming this "breadcrumbs" idea is the abbreviated letters under each tile. I like the bi-directional activity of this right now but HATE small little links like this. I find it very annoying to have to cue my cursor up to little links like this.

I like the idea of auto-hiding a list that remembers your last 5 choices and tiers them accrodingly like MC can do in the right click menu. That way we aren't right clicking and choosing a command and we don't have to squint to click a tiny letter.

Or what about a return to the buttons above the panes but make them abbreviated....these breadcrumbs are so simple they feel cluttered, since we can select multiple tiles do we really need command/links under each tile???

JC
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: datdude on December 09, 2005, 03:07:20 pm
I think the breadcrumbs are what is shown on top with the arrows which shows your history i.e. breadcrumbs to find your way back without starting over.
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: JONCAT on December 09, 2005, 03:13:10 pm
Hansel & Gretel are SO 80's!!!!!!!!!!!!!  ;D
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Matt on December 09, 2005, 03:16:58 pm
There'll be an updated version tonight that's a lot better.  It's feeling pretty tight to us.

One big change is that you can show any graphical view (like album thumbnails, etc.) with a file listing below it.  This is something people have been requesting forever.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: pank2002 on December 09, 2005, 03:28:11 pm
I was supposed to write my social science paper  :(

Thanks JRiver. Looking forward to trying the new build!
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: lOth on December 09, 2005, 03:36:09 pm
Quote
Thanks JRiver. Looking forward to trying the new build!

We all saw that. No playing for you tonight. Get back to work now.
Title: Re: Merged Media Library and Library Browser
Post by: Matt on December 09, 2005, 03:38:38 pm
Continued here:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=30641.0