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All values in my DB so I can easily select the tags to apply

10 (33.3%)

All the values with the field values in the current group of files at the top

16 (53.3%)

Just the field values for the currently selected files

4 (13.3%)

Total Members Voted: 26

[nila]

Ok,
We had it previously displaying JUST the values in the currently selected files, this was a pain to tag with and meant we had to keep re-entering the field values to tag.
After a LONG thread most people wanted it to show all values so it was changed so it did.

Now it's gone back to just showing the values for the currently selected files meaning that all tag values have to be re-entered again and again each time.

Is it just me that finds this ALOT SLOWER?

I dont want to be entering the same tag value 100 times.

Anyway, just wondering what other people think?

[Jaguu]

Didn't they introduce autocomplete now. It could be kind of balance. Some of my choices were so many that I had to scroll up and down all the time.
I have one field countries whixh contains almost all countries of the world. It was a pain to select an existing country. Maybe in such a case Autocomplete would come in more handy. But I must say I haven't done any tagging for a while.

[nila]

By having the values from the currently selected group at the top though you dont have to scroll unless you have too many values in the current group in which case your in trouble anyway.

The auto complete still requires 3 extra steps 'per value'.
It just means extra work with nothing gained?

Making it easy for us to add values that should already be there after first removing them makes NO sense to me.

[LisaRCT]

What about 'catagory-sensitive tags' . . . . so as to prevent Audio only tags like 'BPM' or 'Duration' from showing when tagging Images,
and Image only tags like 'People' or 'Dimensions' from showing up when tagging Audio?
Include or Exclude from these scenerios?

[Jaguu]

What about 'catagory-sensitive tags'

This has been asked for ages!

[LisaRCT]

What about 'catagory-sensitive tags'

This has been asked for ages!

Check your stocking on X-mas morning . . . all those things that have been asked for just may be in there  

[Doof]

Can I change my answer?

I didn't understand what you meant with #2, but that's the one I really want.

[KeystoneCop]

cancel my one vote for for keeping it like it is, current group would be much better..  But I don't want then all. Thanks

[nila]

Doof - I dont have any power to change it.

Just say which one you chose and which you'd like it to be and they can take that into account when looking at the results.
Same for you keystone.


Currently MC is doing option 3

[zevele10]

This is funny--well ,not really--

Not only i do not understand any of the 3 propositions ...
But i do not understand any of your posts....

I stopped to use Mc to tag after MC9.
Now ,it is just to much confusing and messy for me and prone to make big mistakes.
I use TGF, there ,i understand what i do

[rocketsauce]

While I like the concept of MCs Quick Tagging, I find that I rarely use it because more often than not I end up making changes to files that I hadn't intended to change. I use Tag Info in the Action Window for pretty much all of the tagging work I do in MC. However, like Zev, now that the AW is no longer undockable/resizable, I find that I am using other programs to do all my tagging before tracks get imported into my library. Then I only have a  few custom tags to update using MC. For whatever reason, I found tagging in 9.0 to be much easier and straightforward.

Rob

[phelt]

I'm with rocketsauce on this one. I've given up trying to tag with MC, instead using MP3 Tag Studio before importing. I do use Album Artist for collections and mixes, but nothing else. If I correctly understand what's happening with the v10 action window and thus tag view (no undocking, no slide-in view for tags), I'm glad I got used to this process.

[Matt]

Any simple solutions? (for those of you that aren't happy)

With auto-complete and in-place editing in the lists, I never bother to use the tag info screen.  I mean, there's all that space for the list, why not use it for the tagging too?

[pat1066]

I did not understand it either! I am a very raw beginner so am I right in thinking that a tag is like an identifying ticket that you stick on to a file. The tag has fields like [Artist] and [File Type] which are boxes where values can be stored. The values could look like 'bmp' or 'Varies' etc. You can see the fields and values on a tag by using File Type Info and you can alter the values in some fields using Tag Info; others are set by MC or were on the file tag when you obtained it??
Was the vote about what fields should be shown by Tag Info ?

[phelt]

In-place editing assumes the value is visible. The width most people will allocate for the tree/action window is minimal, and sizing/resizing it regularly for tag edits is annoying. Thus longer strings are inconvenient and not easily read.

IMO, the answer already existed in the past. I had no problem with the docking tag window. It would be whatever width I wanted when visible, and trivially small when docked. I understand that one always strives to achieve a more elegant solution, but there is such a thing as oversimplification. Perhaps there were significant development reasons for getting rid of the sliding tag editor pane. All I can say is that it feels like something that wasn't broken got 'fixed'.

[MachineHead]

While I like the concept of MCs Quick Tagging, I find that I rarely use it because more often than not I end up making changes to files that I hadn't intended to change. I use Tag Info in the Action Window for pretty much all of the tagging work I do in MC. However, like Zev, now that the AW is no longer undockable/resizable, I find that I am using other programs to do all my tagging before tracks get imported into my library. Then I only have a  few custom tags to update using MC. For whatever reason, I found tagging in 9.0 to be much easier and straightforward.

Ditto. Personally, I quit using it for most tagging chores when the right hand side, auto-sized to perfection, pop-out went away (IMO - one of the biggest mistakes). I do occasionally use it when a there is a spelling mistake in a name or title, but that's about it. Hmph, so I'm old fashioned. But it was still 10x faster then it is now.

[aussie1]

I do not use quick tagging or JRiver's album database. I use a third party tagger to download the basic tags from Allmusic.com.  Then, I use tag info in the Action Window to create my custom tags.

I also "edit selected items" a lot when I don't want to go through the process of opening the tag info screen.

[DougHamm]

Any simple solutions? (for those of you that aren't happy)

With auto-complete and in-place editing in the lists, I never bother to use the tag info screen.  I mean, there's all that space for the list, why not use it for the tagging too?

That's what I do - I didn't even understand your question because I don't  do it any other way than what you've noted here.  Works absolutely hunky-dorey for me.

-Doug

[Matt]

You may want to check this one out:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=17806

[nila]

For me personally with tagging:

The AW Tag Info window NEEDS to be customisable in terms of groups of fields. I end up trying to squeeze as many of my regular ones into general as I can and then toggling between that and ALL FIELDS which to be honest is VERY overwhelming. I just want to be able to create custom groups of tags for different tasks/media etc.
I've kept asking for it but no sign I've heard a few other people mention it too. It seems like the rest just gave up using MC for tagging and decided just not to ask for it to be improved.

Also with the panes - just show all values like you had it before. All the ones in the current group go at the top with a seperator, all other ones in the db but not in the group of files go underneath.

Inline auto complete when I hit F2 to be honest is a step back for me too. All my columns are the exact size of the info, when I hit F2 the scroll bar appears and with the smaller fields esp. it just means I cant see what I'm typing and have to resize the columns.

The tagging mode where we can browse and tag is great but the fact it is automatically combined is a bit dodgy (or at least that's the feeling I get when someone new is using my computer, I'm constantly worried).

In my opinion it should be the way it is now WHEN in tagging mode, but should otherwise just be normal browsing mode with the button or F4 to toggle between them.

Also, I'd love to be able to press a button (maybe when I turn on tagging mode) and MC knows I'm about to start tagging. I then tag all my files and at the end press the button again (turn off tagging mode). At THIS point it then applies all the tag changes.
This would let me tag all my photo's (10,000 and growing of them) quickly and fast without having to wait around for changes to be applied and THEN when I'm finished just get MC to run through and apply all the changes while I walk off and have something to eat or watch TV or something. It'd mean I was wasting no time waiting for changes to be applied while I worked and it'd also mean that ALL the tag changes to files were just applied at the same time instead of the file being written to 3 or 4 times for each changed field.
Maybe as Rhino suggested have MC write a log file of all the changes to be applied and delete it as it does them. That way if MC crashed after 5000 tag changes before it applied them, as soon as it was re-opened it'd be able to pick up exactly where it left off and the 5000 tags would be still waiting to be applied. It eliminates any danger.


For me those are the biggest ones although to be honest I'd LOVE to have the location bar back with buttons on it for: Fill Track Numbers from List order, rename files from properties, fill properties from filename etc. so I could use it as a one click toolbar to do tasks quickly.


Sorry for going on about it but it's either that or I just give up using MC and use APA2 instead for my images as the tagging method right now just doesn't do it for me at all.
I'd much rather use MC thou and dont want to give up using it so thats why I ask.

Thanks for listenin,

[rocketsauce]

With auto-complete and in-place editing in the lists, I never bother to use the tag info screen.  I mean, there's all that space for the list, why not use it for the tagging too?

In-line tagging is fine if I'm making edits to fields that are normally visible in the track list window (ie., artist, album, name, year, genre). Sometimes that's even a problem though, because a lot of my music is dance mixes and have really long titles, so sometimes the title takes up most of the view in the list. And, if I were to have a column for every tag field that I normally use, that would be a lot of left-right scrolling.

Rob


Listening to: 'Sly Beyonce Walks Like A Nerd (Beyonce vs The Bangles vs Sly vs N.E.R.D.)' from 'GHP In The Mix' by 'Go Home Productions' on Media Center 10

[Matt]

And, if I were to have a column for every tag field that I normally use, that would be a lot of left-right scrolling.

Are you realistically tagging every field at once?  If not, it's really just scrolling once and leaving it.  Or maybe if it were super easy to get the fields you wanted shown in the list it could work.  (just brainstorming)

[skidoo]

Media Center has such great tagging utilities (cf. Library Tools), it'd be a shame to restrict manual tagging to a horizontal view (the grid). Especially for those of us moderate-to-heavy tag users. It seems to me a vertical interface for editing tags is necessary.

That having been said, tagging in the action window works fine for me. The fact that the width of the action window is tied to the width of the tree is not a problem. The tooltips showing the entire value popup quickly. Having to click (scroll) up and down is a minor inconvenience that could be easily remedied by better handling of the up and down arrow keys (currently they only take you to the adjacent field; i.e. I can't edit one field, then skip a couple of fields and edit another; I have to arrow/enter/arrow/enter, etc...).

But if the tagging window became dockable (and independently resizable) again, you'd get no complaints from me.

[Zarius]

Skidoo, you should be able to use tab in the AW tag info to quickly skip fields.

Just wanted to add my 2 cents on AW tagging :)
I prefer the vertical interface of the AW for tagging, for a few reasons -
* it seems more efficient for me, generally less mouse movement for moving from field to field (ie ten pixels down instead of 100 across, depending on column width) - whilst keyboard is identical (tab) 1 point for AW.
* As mentioned above, sometimes songs/genres etc are longer than the current columns and it's quicker to resize the AW whilst tagging (which resizes all fields) rather than resize the individual columns, also I may not want to change my view scheme - only temporarily see the tags for editting.
* Similar to the above, I often want to edit fields that I don't want displayed, with the column view I have to add these in individually, edit and remove each one after... whereas I can just change to all tags in the AW, this would be even better with customisable field grouping.

I also quite like the 'tagging mode' (although the name quite often get's confused with the normal field editing - but I don't have any better ideas for the name) and have the same qualms as Nila with having to type new fields in... I think the 2nd option of having the current files fields shown at the top, a couple of blank lines, a line, then the rest of the entries (kind of like the standard album drop down list when you select multiple) files with different albums.

[skidoo]

Skidoo, you should be able to use tab in the AW tag info to quickly skip fields.

Excellent. Thanks.

[V-Man]

For me personally with tagging:

The AW Tag Info window NEEDS to be customisable in terms of groups of fields. I end up trying to squeeze as many of my regular ones into general as I can and then toggling between that and ALL FIELDS which to be honest is VERY overwhelming.

Agreed. I much preferred the MC8 system of having the Outlook-style tabs to expand any combination of groups at one time.

Also, I don't think the keyboard navigation of the Tag Properties window feels right. I think it would be better (and more like other apps, eg Delphi) if UP/DOWN navigated to the prev/next field rather than cycling through that field's value list. The latter function could be done by pressing ENTER to open the drop-down list, and then using UP/DOWN to go through it. Having used property windows in the past that work this way, it definitely feels more natural than Tab/Shft-Tab.

[NoCodeUK]

I agree with Nila that when tagging a lot of files the commit changes after each operation can be annoying...even when only tagging a newly ripped album this can add quite a delay.  Some way of allowing tagging to be done and then updating at the end would be fantastic...MC crashes so rarely on my machine that I dont see any reason that I would lose tagging information during an edit and if some kind of back up was inplace like Nila mentioned it would be great.  For me personally like I said in the other thread I very rarely change tags using the AW I do it all in the panes/lists...

Adam

[gpvillamil]

I sometimes use in-line editing, but for some things the detachable action window is just much better, such as editing particularly long fields. I find the Quick Tagging mode a bit confusing, and like someone else said, often find myself editing things I did not mean to change.

Also, the detachable action window was a really good way of previewing album art at its full size. There seems to be no easy way of doing that now.

Judging by the lack of progress on Smartlist editing, I suspect the MC developers have a thing about editing in long, skinny fields?   That's why I've gone back to 9.1.316, that and the recursive folders in the My Computer view.

[rocketsauce]

Just to kind of clarify my early posts here, there are certain situations that I do find in-line editing easier, usually for making quick tag edits or for rating tracks (I've disabled the visual ratings), and I do use that method quite a bit. However, I do the majority of my tagging when I import new files to the library and for this I find the AW much easier. I can select an album and see all the tag fields that need to be filled in at once. After thinking about this for a week, I really think that simply allowing the AW to be vertically resized by the user would go a long way in alleviating some of the "discomfort" (for lack of a better word, ATM) of using the AW for tagging.

Rob

[xen-uno]

I, like many others, would like to see the return of the tagging dialog box as a floating separate entity...ala MJ8. It could stay in the AW as a link, or even like it is now. But unlike all other AW entries, it needs to be undockable, and should remember that state, as well as size and position. It also should float above the MC window, but not above other app windows in it's default state...or make this the true meaning of the setting "Always on Top (of MC)", because it makes no sense to have it float over all other app windows.

10^-27

[zevele10]

What i liked very much was the possibility to have the tag/file info window on the right ,as long as the display window,taking only a part of the window.
It was with 9.0 if i'am not wrong

[nila]

Hey

Just wondering what the plans are with tagging.
Dont want to start tagging or spending much time tagging my pics unless I know where this is going in case it ends up somewhere that I dont like. If I know where it's goin then I can make an informed choice now about whether to use MC or another app for my pic's.

Ideally for me for tagging it'd be this setup:

• Press F4 turns on tagging mode.
• ALL field values are displayed with ones in the current group at the top seperated like before.
• To prevent accidents where after selecting 100 pics and then selecting the final pic #101 I accidentally forget to press Ctrl and the rest are all lost, clicking an item once would select it (nothing else held), to deselect it I'd then have to click it again. This would make selecting a LOT of files to give a value to a breeze.
• Pressing F4 again would turn off tagging and apply all the changes (no changes would be applied while doing the tagging itself).
• Some kind of log would be kept of the changes so that a crash wouldn't result in all the changes being lost.

Obviously this is just my opinion and although I'd love it to, I'm not expecting it to work like that.
Just wondering how it is going to be done so I know what to do.

Thanks for any info you can provide as to what u plan to do  

[nila]

Hi,
Just wondering whats happening?

Would it be possible to get an answer as to what MC plans to do about tagging?
It doesn't have to be what I want, I just need to know one way or the other so I can make an informed choice about what to use.

Are the panes going to list all values or just the currently selected ones?

as the tags in my photo collection are non transferable this is a BIG commitment to a program when I start using it and I'm just not willing to make it to MC at the moment. Unless it shows all values I wouldn't even consider using it as it's just too slow and cumbersome and if it's going to be changed back again so that it does I need to know its going to stay that way.

Could I please get an answer one way or the other.
Thanks

[nila]

Bump - Please could I get a reply or I'll just presume it's going to stay the way it is.

If so then this is fine and I'll look at using another program I'd just like to know one way or the other.

Thanks

[JimH]

Nila,
We won't always comment on work we're doing.  Hope you understand.

[Matt]

If you want all the values, make a view with everything in it.  Sort new images towards the top.

Otherwise use auto-complete.

We won't always list everything.  It's just too much of a confusing mess.