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[raldo]

It's interesting to see Coupe's take on media centers:

http://gcoupe.wordpress.com/2014/10/21/whither-next-a-media-center-journey/

His conclusion wrt. MC is that it is too complex for him. Coupe is a smart guy who has a lot of interesting points on all types of media on his blog.

I seem to remember that the issue of a simplified configuration interface has been raised earlier. I.e. hide the advanced topics and expose various "simple use cases" to new users?

[RoderickGI]

So MC is too complex, and the other two aren't flexible enough or don't do it the way he wants.

The man wants his cake and eat it too. It still looks like I made the correct choice with MC.

[6233638]

Media Center is by far the most flexible software out there—though I do find it surprisingly inflexible in a couple of areas, considering how good it is overall.
 
It's also extremely complex to set up for first-time users.
Once you have everything configured—or had someone configure it for you—especially if you are going to use an app like JRemote, it's easy enough to use on a day-to-day basis, but getting it to that point can be very complicated for "regular" users.
 
A first-time setup wizard, improved preset views, and updated preferences & defaults could go a long way in simplifying the process.
I've already made numerous detailed posts on the subject though, so I won't go into any further detail here.

[adlelare]

6233638,

I agree 100%..and IMO the long term health and growth of JRiver really depends on that.  a few of my buddies have tried and given up cause it was too hard to setup on their own with no help (i fully recommend videos on youtube and as their are hundreds re. WMC, thousands re. XBMC i assume it is easy to do)

<<or had someone configure it for you—>> holy moly you mean people actually do that???

and on day to day use, in my case, i got to a certain level and stopped as it is very, very time consuming at times..but i really like Gizmo

and as an aside and illuminating one expert actually asked for help in setting up WMC.. which as WMC is so simple to set up i found that "odd" and demonstrative of the whole HTPC software issue ( it was/is very easy to set up) but with WMC you get what you get and thats it thats all.

regards.

[BartMan01]

So MC is too complex, and the other two aren't flexible enough or don't do it the way he wants.

The man wants his cake and eat it too. It still looks like I made the correct choice with MC.

His experience pretty much mirrors my own:
MC has a pretty lackluster 'out of the box' experience compared to the other offerings.  It assumes a level of knowledge about databases and tagging that the average person just doesn't have, but most can easily come up to speed on with some time commitment.  'Ease of use' is getting better, but it is still not something that my mom could pick up and 'just use'.

The other products mentioned are much easier to start using, but if you want to get outside of their 'box' you quickly hit a brick wall that either can't be overcome or requires very complex programming.

[glynor]

MC isn't for your mom, though. That's not a tenable standard.  It is a premium product.

Not to say it can't get better. It can. But...

[glynor]

I agree completely that the default Media Views need a complete do over.

[JimH]

It will.

[ssands]

As a relative newbie to MC, the thing I wished for most was a manual. I know this has come up before, but the wiki and FAQ are not the best intro to MC. I'm a technical person (although not so much in A/V), but I found it difficult to know where to start and the routes to increase my knowledge.

I've basically used a small percentage of its capabilities. I set it aside and then come back to take it to the next level. And in some cases, I've bypassed it and just accessed my NAS from directly from the TV/Receiver menus. Which is not the way I want to do it, but sometimes the struggle is too hard.

I also wish that each and every menu option and choice had help, but it doesn't.

I know that all that documentation can take away from coding, but I do think that a better help system and docs would make ramp up easier for those that want to use the powers of MC.

And as was said before, a wizard for at least getting set up quickly out of the box would probably help. Also, perhaps a tour.

A lot to ask, I know. Perhaps too much. But my two cents.

[Castius]

We just need one of those fold out 6 step illustration to setup the app. Like you get with your hardware.
It would just point to stuff in the app. Done! 

[raldo]

....
The man wants his cake and eat it too. It still looks like I made the correct choice with MC.

I don't see that there is a conflict in having the cake and eating it too here. A simplified configuration would exist as an overlay to the more complex stuff.

I made the correct choice too, but sometimes I'd like to see a more workflow oriented approach to things.

My example for a Home media workflow, based on Marko's ideas:
o JRiver determines which tags will be used in the workflow. Suggestions: People, Date, Caption, Events (stored in keywords), Places (fixed so that the info is split in three)
o Import View shows incoming media, for example multiple dropbox folders or camera import folders. The user can set location of import folders.
o The media in the import view is in the process of being tagged.
o A move mechanism which moves media from import to "permanent storage" based on preset rules. The user can select target base folder.
o Loads of preset views are needed.

 

[astromo]

Whoa, hold on people. This bloke that we're referring to is using MCE as his benchmark. When it came to the JRiver test he appears to have come in with his blinkers on, blinded with prejudiced and declared MC too hard without even giving it a serious crack. Not even a test by even the most casual of standards.

My Dad still uses MCE but for TV, video and images. For audio he goes to Sonos. And when I last checked when I visited, Sonos couldn't even do a smart list.

I know MCE can do audio but the formats and what it can do is way limited. Even my Dad can see that. Even if it's only an unconscious and intuitive assessment.

I'll have to read the review again but I thought it was focused on TV and video.

MC is an audio leader. Some would say it is the leader but most reasonable people would at least put it up at the top of the list. The other functions - TV, video, images are a matter for debate but it's at least a contender. For video and images, I'd say that it's easily at the top or within its weight class.

For TV, it's more variable based on location, transmission standards, payment or free format and DRM. My observation is that the biggest hassle is the EPG but it's still no light weight.

As an all rounder, on balance - I'd say (to coin an Ozzie expression) "fair suck of the sav' mate" - give the software it's due. Improve it - yeah sure, please do. That way I can get my Dad off the unholy, hybrid mix that he's using.

On that last score of improvement, keep plugging glynor. You've got the right skill set and street cred to pass on constructive comment. I have high hopes for you as a conduit for improvement  on the TV front. To all the other users, I share your desire for a better world. Please keep the good stuff coming. RodGI (did I mention he's from Oz?) is doing the kind of thing I'm referring to. Look at the momentum he's generated in pushing .jtv as a default format for VideoReDo. Excellent example of vision. Keep that sort of thing coming.

I'm confident that MC will get there, even if guys like Geoff Coupe would prefer to walk instead of getting a bus ticket.

I've already got my ticket. I'm on the bus.

[gcoupe]

Sometimes walking is better than a bus ride. Happy for you that you've found JMC good. As I say, it's just not what I'm looking for.

[JimH]

Here's a modified setup that we've discussed recently.

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=92813.msg639291#msg639291

[mstan]

To me, there are only two big things missing from MC: a full up Mac version and a much more elegant GUI (including graphical equalizer controls).

[astromo]

It's interesting to see Coupe's take on media centers:

http://gcoupe.wordpress.com/2014/10/21/whither-next-a-media-center-journey/

His conclusion wrt. MC is that it is too complex for him. Coupe is a smart guy who has a lot of interesting points on all types of media on his blog.

I seem to remember that the issue of a simplified configuration interface has been raised earlier. I.e. hide the advanced topics and expose various "simple use cases" to new users?

raldo, excellent rundown in your response to the blog post reviewing the capabilities of MC. Your approach of setting out assessment criteria and running down it in a checklist form is a clear and rational method of review that works for me. I would have liked to have seen that sort of approach in the original posting.

I'd point out though that there is a Windows Phone remote for MC, nMedium Play
And we shouldn't forget that there are also options for Android, i-thingy and even BlackBerry. That pretty well covers the smart device OS playing field doesn't it? So, those check boxes are ticked as well.

MC isn't for your mom, though. That's not a tenable standard.  It is a premium product.

Not to say it can't get better. It can. But...

I love her but my Mum's a technophobe (she won't argue with that), she'd need assistance to get pretty well any computer media system set up. For mine, I'm glad I've opted for a premium product. With the vibrant developer and user support, we're working with a technical powerhouse in terms of the engine under the hood. Interface and cosmetic improvements (I may be simplifying overly here) can always be massaged over time and thankfully we've got the minds here to do it.


I still don't see where GC is heading (whether on foot, bus, train, ...) because Windows doesn't have an apparent, coherent plan for MCE. As was appropriately referred to in the external blog post that Keeping Windows Media Center Alive Without Microsoft is the critical issue. The metaphor of intensive care and defibrillator paddles is spot on. To underline the "Road to Nowhere" theme, the GC blog post offers no recommended way forward other than sit back, watch, wait and presumably hope that an alternative will come along. I have my doubts as to whether that will bear sweet fruit because it's clear that MCE is whithering (has whithered?) on the vine.

Each to their own. As I mentioned before, I'm on the bus and thankfully its going places.

[gcoupe]

I still don't see where GC is heading (whether on foot, bus, train, ...) because Windows doesn't have an apparent, coherent plan for MCE. As was appropriately referred to in the external blog post that Keeping Windows Media Center Alive Without Microsoft is the critical issue. The metaphor of intensive care and defibrillator paddles is spot on. To underline the "Road to Nowhere" theme, the GC blog post offers no recommended way forward other than sit back, watch, wait and presumably hope that an alternative will come along. I have my doubts as to whether that will bear sweet fruit because it's clear that MCE is whithering (has whithered?) on the vine.

I thought that I was pretty clear in my post that I am very well aware that Microsoft is in the process of killing off MCE. That's why I am looking at alternatives. The issue is that, at the moment, the alternatives have their own shortcomings when I check them against what I am looking for.

[Castius]

I think you cover the topic pretty well for the length of the article.
i had a similar view of JRiver. When I started using JRiver. I paid for jriver because I simply wanted to donate to such good developers. I kept my subsonic server with foobar as a media player. Up and running. For a long time. It's not easy to give up the things you know.

I can still see why many would not use JRiver. Like not having a  keyboard shortcut editor. These kind of things make jriver feel like a power user app. On top of not being free. This just sets a poor representation for the software.