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[JimH]

Matt explained the new look once and maybe Matt or Nikolay explained again and I've missed it, but I was away for a couple of days.  

A lot of the comments in the "bored" thread are about the new appearance of 9.1.228.

IT IS IN PROGRESS AND NOT FINISHED.  There I've said it.

We will restore the previous look where the window is in he middle.  It might happen tomorrow.  It will happen this week.

The reason we've done it is that we now need to support two different types of mega-me skins.  I'll explain why sometime in the future.  It might be a couple of months.

The good news, for those who care how MC looks, is that we're spending a lot of time on this now.

The good news, for those who don't care, is that we will only have taken a couple weeks off to do it.

Bugs will be fixed.  Life will be good.

[Superag]

Thanks

I think the old look is better!

Am I alone??

[Shelly]

I'll try to stay optimistic, but can't pass up the opportunity to cast another vote for the look proposed by Rands at http://www.futurehome.de/mc/split_view.htm.  Now that's a look that could get me excited.

Shelly

[clout]

the look proposed by Rands at http://www.futurehome.de/mc/split_view.htm.

This was originally proposed by Knickelfarz and received a lot of support in the following two threads
Split Panes
http://www.musicex.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=MediaCenter;action=display;num=1059283225
If you're bored
http://www.musicex.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=MediaCenter;action=display;num=1060291802.
I think this has the possibility of making the best use of available space possible.

[Shelly]

This was originally proposed by Knickelfarz and received a lot of support in the following two threads
Split Panes
http://www.musicex.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=MediaCenter;action=di splay;num=1059283225
If you're bored
http://www.musicex.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=MediaCenter;action=di splay;num=1060291802.
I think this has the possibility of making the best use of available space possible.

Thanks for pointing out my error, Clout, as I must have missed those posts. Kudos to Knickelfarz for an outstanding design.  I'm keeping my fingers and toes crossed that JRiver will incorporate this look.  

Shelly

[jleerigby]

I think this has the possibility of making the best use of available space possible.

Very impressive pic but I actually think it uses up too much screen space and reduces the space available for the library.

[nila]

I'm more curious about the 'two looks' mentioned by Jim - one for beginners one for advanced??

One for the windows version of iTunes - one for the MC version?

One for freaks one for geeks??

That's got me curious!!

[Absurrrd]

:-/
This is my first posting... Anyone here from outta town?
Well I felt strongly enough to  register as a member so I could just tell you hard working folks that I think the look is great but then came 228... It's much better with makin the properties flexible enough so it fills the entire
pane. We would promise to use such awesome power responsibly.

                                                  Chrispy

[jleerigby]

I'm more curious about the 'two looks' mentioned by Jim - one for beginners one for advanced??

One for the windows version of iTunes - one for the MC version?

One for freaks one for geeks??

That's got me curious!!

It's gotta be HS related.

[nila]

hairstyle??
How'd u work that one out?

[bjsolem]

Since you are asking for feedback here goes...

The top in it's current form is annoying, but you've already said that will change so I'll leave it alone.  One thought that I had that I haven't seen mentioned is why can't the volume slider be vertical instead of horizontal?  I usually think of turning the volume up or down, not left or right.

The action window is a good step, but needs to evolve further.  The main benefit is being able to see the songlist while your bopping around to other parts of the Application.  

I know you may be sick of hearing it by now but the screen shot posted by knickelfarz and reused by others is very appealing.  I would even take it a step further and move the tabs to the tab and have them control the whole right side of the screen.  

The tabs would be on the left right beneath the player controls.

Beneath the tabs would be the tree or some version of it that could be fully collapsed to a single line if we didn't want to see it.

Below that would be the "action window" which likely be used for the playlist mostly because the Tabs at the top could take you to everything else.

The tabs in the mockup by knickelfarz could be expanded to include tagging mode, pane view, tv tuner, DVD playback, burner, visualizations, photo specific view, video specific view etc.

What you end up with is a very clean interface with a player at the top, a list of tabs below that on the left that control the view on the right and your current playlist below the tabs.

I know this is kind of wordy, and I'm sorry that I don't have the skill to create what I'm picturing, but it's the best that I can do at the moment.

I also am aware that this would involve much more work than adding the action window, but something like what's described above is where I'm hoping that Media Center is going....

As always, thanks for listening.

[Bartabedian]

I really don't see what all the fuss is about.

1. This has always been a beta since 9.1 started, so obvously nothing is set in stone (or code).

2. Am I nuts, or other than a few minor "movements", it doesn't look all that different, it looks like what happens when you start to move the funiture around in your living room because you were looking for that "feng shui" you've heard so much about. It's still the same furniture, though.

3. The "pains" are still there, and a bit more visible than before. Seems like a dictation that us pane hiders better get over it.

4. I like where it's heading, and I like the "super happy fun transformer trio millenium power window 5000".

5. Clearly this all needs work, and with our love and patience, and the JRiver teams' blood, sweat and tears it will probably make many people very happy.

[Galley]

Pure Speculation: I believe that the reason why the 9.1 interface looks so much like iTunes and JRiver hasn't received any "cease and desist" letters is that JRiver was contracted to develop the Windows version of iTunes.  They have probably signed an NDA, and won't be able to comment on this for a few months.

[Polonio]

Matt explained the new look once and maybe Matt or Nikolay explained again and I've missed it

Make your best to improve the GUI. I am pretty sure, anything you do, it'll be good.

However, don't explain the new look. If you have to explain it, it is not good enoght. Do you plan to seat behind each new user to explain it to him?

If it is a good GUI, does not need any explanation. It works as it looks:

http://www.futurehome.de/mc/split_view.htm.

[JimH]

With the exception of swapping the player control buttons and the window, the functional layout of MC is now finished.  

We may add options and fine tune a little, but we aren't going to do a radical re-design.  

There is always another version to look forward to.

Thanks for your comments.

Here's a screenshot from the build that should be out later today:




and two bigger images of the same:
http://www.jriver.com/~jriver/misc/mc91228.jpg

http://www.jriver.com/~jriver/misc/mc91228_2.jpg

[JimH]

Pure Speculation: I believe that the reason why the 9.1 interface looks so much like iTunes and JRiver hasn't received any "cease and desist" letters is that JRiver was contracted to develop the Windows version of iTunes.

No comment.  

[Polonio]

With the exception of swapping the player control buttons and the window, the functional layout of MC is now finished.  

We may add options and fine tune a little, but we aren't going to do a radical re-design.  

I guess a playlist could be a "Drag, Drop & Go" target, and it would look as actual playing now target.   And I guess the DD&G targets would not be the same as the actual "Send to" items (I just dont see how Send to play (add), and send to play (replace) could be different targets...). Are these functionalities inside the actual "functional layout"? If not, DDG does not make much sense to me.

Could you advance your conclussions about the Action Window interface?. What is for you a "radical re-design"?  Do you plan to include tabs? Buttons? Is right-clicking everywhere right to you?

I don't understand your road map. You said no new change would be make, but you surprise us with the Action Window. You asked for suggestions, but  "functional layout" is finished, and you are not going to do a re-design.

Do you plan to explain some day your road map to your actual and/or future customers?

Sorry if I seem rude. I get surprised for your answer.

[Pink Waters]

With the exception of swapping the player control buttons and the window, the functional layout of MC is now finished.  

We may add options and fine tune a little, but we aren't going to do a radical re-design.  

There is always another version to look forward to.

Thanks for your comments.

Here's a screenshot from the build that should be out later today:




and two bigger images of the same:
http://www.jriver.com/~jriver/misc/mc91228.jpg

http://www.jriver.com/~jriver/misc/mc91228_2.jpg

Jim..!
what is that..
it looks too strange.. getting the playerbar window and buttons centered and a quite empty left/right spaces till the borders...!

looks strange for me.. adding another thing in the right of the playerbar so the playerbar i centered between the buttons and another thing..might be better..

thanks

[JimH]

I guess a playlist could be a "Drag, Drop & Go" target, and it would look as actual playing now target.  

That's there in 228 (if I understand you).

And I guess the DD&G targets would not be the same as the actual "Send to" items (I just dont see how Send to play (add), and send to play (replace) could be different targets...). Are these functionalities inside the actual "functional layout"? If not, DDG does not make much sense to me.

I don't understand the question.  Sorry.

Could you advance your conclussions about the Action Window interface?. What is for you a "radical re-design"?  Do you plan to include tabs? Buttons? Is right-clicking everywhere right to you?

We hope to have a non-right click solution.

I don't understand your road map. You said no new change would be make, but you surprise us with the Action Window.

There is a good reason, but I can't explain it.

You asked for suggestions, but  "functional layout" is finished, and you are not going to do a re-design.

Maybe it would help to say that we intend to "finish" what we've begun with respect to the Action Window.

Do you plan to explain some day your road map to your actual and/or future customers?

I hope you will understand that we try to be as open as possible, but we don't share everything.

It might also be a mistake if we shared too much of our vision with our competitors.

[bjsolem]

No comment.  

Is it just me, or is this the biggest no comment, comment that this board has ever seen??!!??

[nila]

It's too big a no comment for me to trust it - I think it's just him winding us up


Hmm - not too sure I like the 'final layout' - I just re-installed build 9.1.225 to see what the old(er) layout was.

I think it's because of the smaller text display area but to me the top now just seems like a BIG waste of space.
Basically we lose that space all the way along the top simply for 4 buttons and a little text?

It just looks way way tooo big and empty. For a GUI designed on lack of buttons to save space - the top area just seems to contradict it's whole philosophy.

If this is how you plan to leave the top area I STRONGLY suggest that the 'shuffle' 'repeat' and 'equaliser' buttons are taken out and put on the right - bigger and clearer - make some use of the space and make them stand out more - right now they're easy to miss. Let the skinners make them look all perty in the GUI.

Esp. the DSP Studio - its a big playback feature - make it prominant - u Have a TON of space.

What I'd LOVE to see is some of this huge space at the top that right now just seems wasted put to good use with some advanced playback controls that were instantly accessible and visible. Ability for the equalizer to be displayed right next to the title would be a GREAT use of that space in my opinion.

For image playback some buttons to turn on black and white/sepia would be great.


I dunno really - just something - it seems like the biggest amount of empty pointless space ever.

Basically the old play buttons that were in the bottom left all neat and compact have now just been stretched to take up the whole width with nothing new added to them??

[Polonio]

That's there in 228 (if I understand you).

I selected a playlist as a target, and I didn't see the track's list. I saw an image tellig me the number of files in the playlist. I guess it was due to the number of tracks.

I will check it in 229.

I don't understand the question.  Sorry.

I get surprised while looking at possible DDG targets. However, I reintalled 226, so I prefer do not talk much about 228. I'll wait to this night build to re-formulate my question, if needed.

We hope to have a non-right click solution.

No tabs, no buttons, no right-click.

I'll wait to see

Maybe it would help to say that we intend to "finish" what we've begun with respect to the Action Window.

I understand now what you meant.

However, I dont undersand why you dont want to change some things many people has asked for. For instance, why was "Play to" items relocated at second level? What's wrong about adding some buttons? What about droppable buttons? Why panels are not resizeable? These things seems very simple to implement. Many people asked for it. So... why not?

I respect your decision. I just dont understand it. But there are so many thing I dont understand that you should not worry about it  

[jleerigby]

We hope to have a non-right click solution.

And I guess the DD&G targets would not be the same as the actual "Send to" items (I just dont see how Send to play (add), and send to play (replace) could be different targets...). Are these functionalities inside the actual "functional layout"? If not, DDG does not make much sense to me.



I don't understand the question.  Sorry.

I think I know what he means.  I never raised this 'cos I thought it was just down to the 'work in progress' situation.  If you select DDG target then Play what do the other options do?  Whichever you select it just seems to display the PN list.  There doesn't seem to be any difference for example between 'Play' and 'Add to playing now'.

[Polonio]

If this is how you plan to leave the top area I STRONGLY suggest that the 'shuffle' 'repeat'

Yes! These are features I use a lot, and they are way to small to my visual capatabilities.

I think I know what he means.

Thanks.  

[JimH]

However, I dont undersand why you dont want to change some things many people has asked for..... These things seems very simple to implement. Many people asked for it. So... why not?

Until you've seen it from our side, you can't appreciate how easy it is to change something in order to please one group, and then find out another group doesn't like the change.  

Skins, for example.  "Why do we have to have skins?"

[KingSparta]

for example.  "Why do we have to have skins?"

so it will retain our body moisture.

[JimH]

so it will retain our body moisture.

Try telling that to them.

[Polonio]

Until you've seen it from our side, you can't appreciate how easy it is to change something in order to please one group, and then find out another group doesn't like the change.  

Ok, I accept I can't really appreciate how easy is to change something. Touche!


Polonio

PS: But I am sure somethings would please everyone or, at least, nobody would be unpleased.  

[jleerigby]

But I am sure somethings would please everyone or, at least, nobody would be unpleased.  

Like increasing the range of functions available as toolbar buttons can only be of benefit as you can please yourself which ones you display.  

[KingSparta]

99% of the users did not like having a stop button thats why that was removed.

[nila]

Like increasing the range of functions available as toolbar buttons can only be of benefit as you can please yourself which ones you display.  

Amen - All the 'Library Tools' - would be a GREAT addition to the available buttons. Badly hurts no one as they just dont add them - I'd plaster them ALL over the location bar.


And King - where'd u get that from? I didn't see ONE complaint about having a stop button?

[KingSparta]

And King - where'd u get that from? I didn't see ONE complaint about having a stop button?

you don't have the security access level, sorry

[Pink Waters]

Jim..!
what is that..
it looks too strange.. getting the playerbar window and buttons centered and a quite empty left/right spaces till the borders...!

looks strange for me.. adding another thing in the right of the playerbar so the playerbar i centered between the buttons and another thing..might be better..

thanks

Did i mention that an answer would be nice ?..probably!?  

[Polonio]

Did i mention that an answer would be nice ?..probably!?  

I am not Jim. But well, I have your same opinion. Also Nila proposed something similar.

They dont seem to. But they listen.

Sometimes.

[jleerigby]

99% of the users did not like having a stop button thats why that was removed.

I agree.  Terrible waste of space.  Why do you need a stop button when you can just turn down the volume.

[Polonio]

I agree.  Terrible waste of space.  Why do you need a stop button when you can just turn down the volume.

Yes. Or you could play a silent mp3 long enough. You would just add it to play, and skip to next track when you get bored of the silence.

We dont want a stop button! We want a coffe maker!

[nila]

I agree.  Terrible waste of space.  Why do you need a stop button when you can just turn down the volume.

Hmm - ur right - theres a shortage of it up there!

[Doof]

The screenshots that Jim just posted have a stop button.

But he also said they have to support two sets of skins.

One that apparently has a stop button and one that doesn't.

Ever notice that iTunes has no stop button?

Interesting...

[lOth]

1) What's that Musicnow icon in the navigation tree in the bigger screenshots?

2) Please, issue a formal denial that current work might be related to HS. Unless what seems to be a reappearing stop button was in fact an HS launcher...   Seriously, I really don't see how it could be related, but I don't want the slightest doubt to subsist, it is too hard to bear.

[LisaRCT]

No tabs, no buttons, no right-click.

I'll wait to see

Think:Mental Telepathy

[DocLotus]

I know that 229 is a work in progress but the new Action Window is driving me nuts...

It's small.
It's large.
It's medium size.
It's all over the place.

Plus the controls for it are lacking.

The old window suited me just fine.  At least it was a consistant size & had pretty good controls.

Maybe the two can be combined into one new window with enhanced features.

[NoCodeUK]

I agree Doc.  ATM I just cannot get used to this auto sizing thing.  it drives me mad.  The new playing now window is great but I would prefer if I could lock it at a certain height to make it useful as a drop target.  still i am guessing it will be autosizing now which is a shame  kinda limits the DJ element to it which I was rather excited about...

Adam

[Pink Waters]

Jim, as a reply for the post i posted of today's 229 build..
why not adding some spaces around the playerbar to make us capable of skinning like this:-

http://www.netspaceonline.net/netspace/tomy00/playerbar2.jpg

[JHC]

I'll try to stay optimistic, but can't pass up the opportunity to cast another vote for the look proposed by Rands at http://www.futurehome.de/mc/split_view.htm.  Now that's a look that could get me excited.

Shelly

Yes -- I love this design. I think it makes very good use of screen real estate. Much better for working with tags etc.

Jonathan

[xen-uno]

B229 is a step forward compared to B228...and both are a step backward compared to B226 in one respect...

...individual boxes for searching and for criteria/view parameters have been merged again, leading to the age old problem of destroying your criteria when you want to search for something in a list (ie smartlists or view schemes). The perfect compromise would be having the top part of 226, with the body of 229 (hummanah hummanah hummanah).

10^-27

[MachineHead]

The reason we've done it is that we now need to support two different types of mega-me skins.  I'll explain why sometime in the future.  It might be a couple of months.

Could it be?? Oh, one can only hope...a music only version.

[Pink Waters]

Wow. ToMy00, that is way too much wasted space. IMO

yeah.. and skinner can use it to make different size buttons,change in the mainframe look and change playerbar look..!;)

[JimH]

[moved from another thread -- post by pensive chimp]

I'm not sure just what the line is between major and minor changes, but I think minor tweaks (in my mind) could improve the action window.

The "bounce" is just too much. When cycling through the options with the "refresh" icon, you have to go chasing the darn thing up and down the screen.

I understand why putting that top part on the bottom is not desirable, as you then have what looks like a title bar on the bottom of the area, which is just plain weird.

I think that maybe the action window should always remain as big as it can be at all times. This would keep the top of the area stationary, but might look weird with too much negative space below it.

I think the "refresh" icon is odd, as it doesn't refresh. I prefer the established MC standard interface of a left and right arrow for navigation.

With a left and right arrow on the left side, I think it'd be useful to have and up and down arrow on the right side. The up arrow would maximize the action window, completely hiding the tree. The down arrow would hide the action window in one quick click.

These are just my observations and I understand others may wholeheartedly disagree. Just my opinion...

[JimH]

[and my reply there]

It's still only half finished.  The bounce should be fixed in the next build.

Later this week, we should be able to introduce a simpler (and more graphical) way to navigate in the Action Window.

[JimH]

[and then Nila's post]

Some simple changes to the GUI for the action window that would make it a lot simpler and more straight forward:
http://www.phazeclothing.com/temp/action_panel.jpg