Topic: Visualizations make MC freeze (Read 10595 times)

Berto · « **on:** January 22, 2005, 08:17:45 am »

Since quite a while MC freezes when using the build in Visualizations plug-in in Playing Now. The only remedy is to end MC through the Windows Taskmanager.

Alex B · « **Reply #1 on:** January 22, 2005, 09:30:24 am »

I wrote about this in 11.0.177 thread:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=25557.msg177469#msg177469
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=25557.msg177486#msg177486
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=25557.msg177500#msg177500

Anybody else having this problem?

Berto · « **Reply #2 on:** January 22, 2005, 10:40:44 am »

Quote from: Alex B on January 22, 2005, 09:30:24 am

A quick and dirty fix was to delete the "Fire Rod.mjv" file from the "<MC program path>\Visualizations\Vis Studio\Oscilloscope" folder.

I found a better way. After installation of every new build of MC first thing I do is uninstall the Visualization plug-in under Tools, Plug-in Manager. That's the only way to avoid troubles, because Fire Rod is not the only visualization that causes MC to freeze.

risingdamp · « **Reply #3 on:** January 22, 2005, 01:14:22 pm »

I have this problem all the time. If I hit 'Full Screen' on the toolbar button after first loading MC it often crashes and I have to kill it from Task Manager. .

JimH · « **Reply #4 on:** January 22, 2005, 04:58:47 pm »

Quote from: risingdamp on January 22, 2005, 01:14:22 pm

I have this problem all the time. If I hit 'Full Screen' on the toolbar button after first loading MC it often crashes and I have to kill it from Task Manager. .

It's possible that updating your video driver might help.

risingdamp · « **Reply #5 on:** January 23, 2005, 09:45:35 am »

Quote from: JimH on January 22, 2005, 04:58:47 pm

It's possible that updating your video driver might help.

Tried that. I'm using the very latest ATI drivers.

JimH · « **Reply #6 on:** January 23, 2005, 10:02:06 am »

Quote from: risingdamp on January 23, 2005, 09:45:35 am

Tried that. I'm using the very latest ATI drivers.

Latest is not always best. Try a google search about this subject.

CDvd · « **Reply #7 on:** January 25, 2005, 07:13:19 am »

I have this problem with the visualisation plugin too for a long time.
I wrote some posts about it (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=23389.msg162948#msg162948)
(MC freezes when using some visualizations)

I finaly gave up and like Berto I simply uninstalled the Visualization plug-in (I now use GForce).
I use the (very old and default) windows xp driver for my Geforce2 MX and I'll try to upgrade to the latest one, but I doubt it will make a difference.

risingdamp · « **Reply #8 on:** January 25, 2005, 08:02:13 am »

I use G-Force too but maybe my problem is different. My problem is a crash when MC is trying to initialise full screen mode.

DJ_Hazelwood · « **Reply #9 on:** January 25, 2005, 08:28:03 am »

Same problem here.

But if i replace the file 'Vis Studio.dll' within the Visualization-Directory with 'Vis Studio.dll' and 'vsc_Default.dll' from an older version (from MC 10 i think) the visualizations work again.

?

Media Center Registered 11.0.179 -- C:\Programme\J River\Media Center 11\

Microsoft Windows XP Workstation 5.1 Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
Intel Pentium 4 2992 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 1047 MB, Free - 356 MB

Internet Explorer: 6.0.2900.2180 / ComCtl32.dll: 5.82 (xpsp_sp2_rtm.040803-2158) / Shlwapi.dll: 6.00.2900.2180 (xpsp_sp2_rtm.040803-2158) / Shell32.dll: 6.00.2900.2180 (xpsp_sp2_rtm.040803-2158) / wnaspi32.dll: 4.71 (0001) , ASPI for Win32 (95/NT) DLL, Copyright © 1989-2002 Adaptec, Inc. / Aspi32.sys: 4.71 (0001)

Ripping / Drive I: MATSHITADVD-ROM SR-8589 Mode:Normal Type:Auto Speed:Max
Drive J: Mode:Normal Type:Auto Speed:Max
Digital playback: Yes / Use YADB: Yes / Get cover art: Yes / Calc replay gain: Yes / Copy volume: 32767
Eject after ripping: Yes / Play sound after ripping: No

Burning / Drive J: HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4040B Addr: 3:0:0 Speed:12 MaxSpeed:3 BurnProof:Yes
Test mode: No / Eject after writing: Yes / Direct decoding: Yes / Write CD-Text: Yes
Use playback settings: No / Normalization: None

KingSparta · « **Reply #10 on:** January 25, 2005, 09:47:44 am »

Never had a problem with Normal Visuals

Every Blue Moon The 3d Visuals Do Lockup

Radeon 9700 Pro

Vipman · « **Reply #11 on:** January 25, 2005, 01:22:03 pm »

I had this problem on my laptop every so often. I finally narrowed the problem down to my wireless lan card's configuration app. I have a netgear lan card on my laptop and it comes with the corresponding utils from Netgear to admin the card. Once set up, it is not necessary for this app to be running in the background all the time. Terminating it (wlancfg5.exe) fixed my MC freeze problems.

I was not seeing the freezeups when I was actually actively connected to my router and the card was in use. The freezeups only happened when MC was running and the wlan app was searching/scanning for available routers etc. and there were none found.

Not sure if yours is a similar issue, but though I'd toss this out in case it comes in handy for others. I'm running MC 10.x

- Vip.

CDvd · « **Reply #12 on:** January 26, 2005, 05:58:08 am »

1) I've upgraded my drivers (geforce2mx) from the xp's default one to the nvidia's latest one yesterday. The problem was still here.

2) I tryed to switch the "Vis Studio.dll" file to an older one (from MC 10) like DJ_Hazelwood suggested and magically everything seems to work fine now. No more freeze, no more weird visualizations!

I just wonder how much improvements I miss by switching back to a so old "Vis Studio.dll"...

(to Vipman : I don't have any wireless card so I don't think it's the problem

)

AndromAK · « **Reply #13 on:** January 26, 2005, 01:37:50 pm »

I had the same problem with my old video card (Geforce 3 Titanium).
...and I steel have this problem with my new one (Geforce 6800 GT), but with not all the visualizations.

And I am a geek for video stuff, so I have installed all new drivers.

...err... I don't want to be nasty, but Visualizations are not very beautiful : this is the only thing that I don't like in MC..

See by yourself:

3D vis are better, but the viewport is not correctly resized in window mode.

Moreover, the cover art vis don't resize the picture to fit all the area

BUT I LOVE MEDIA CENTER ANYWAY!!!

risingdamp · « **Reply #14 on:** January 26, 2005, 03:12:49 pm »

Thanks guys. I renamed Vis Studio.dll and I no longer get the problem. I never used MC's visualisations anyway 'cos I use G-Force. I'm glad I stuck around for helpful advice before assuming it was a graphics card problem.

Alex B · « **Reply #15 on:** January 26, 2005, 06:28:18 pm »

Quote from: DJ_Hazelwood on January 25, 2005, 08:28:03 am

Same problem here.

But if i replace the file 'Vis Studio.dll' within the Visualization-Directory with 'Vis Studio.dll' and 'vsc_Default.dll' from an older version (from MC 10 i think) the visualizations work again.

Quote from: CDvd on January 26, 2005, 05:58:08 am

2) I tryed to switch the "Vis Studio.dll" file to an older one (from MC 10) like DJ_Hazelwood suggested and magically everything seems to work fine now. No more freeze, no more weird visualizations!

I just wonder how much improvements I miss by switching back to a so old "Vis Studio.dll"...

.
No changes are announced. I think they are just broken for some reason.

I have ATI Radeon 9600. I have tried with a couple of driver versions. Oscilloscope and Planetarium visualizations make MC freeze instantly. I had to hide them from MC program folder because sometimes I accidentally change to them. The worst thing is that the whole PC gets rebooted when I stop MC in the Task Manager. Collage doesn't hang MC, but the actual visualizations are totally broken (Damaged Layers are now really damaged!). Spectrum analyzer, 3D and also G-Force work normally.

Earlier everything worked with MC10/11 and with the same graphics card & drivers.

I just confirmed this problem with v. 11.0.180. Because Matt didn't write anything about this I didn't except any change and there wasn't.

JimH · « **Reply #16 on:** January 26, 2005, 07:11:36 pm »

There may be a problem with MC, but it's odd that this started happening at a time when we hadn't made any changes in that area (as far as I know).

We'll find the problem if it is ours.

Alex B · « **Reply #17 on:** January 26, 2005, 07:13:49 pm »

One thing comes to my mind. I installed the latest DirectX 9.0 C on January 15. Before that I had 9.0 A. I hesitated to install the B version, because many users had problems with it when it was new. A program needed C-version and after searching for possible bugs I dared to install it.

I don't know if this is connected anyhow, but it is the only change on my system.

I don't even use those visualizations. I only tried them accidentally when I was checking the changed image display buttons.

JimH · « **Reply #18 on:** January 26, 2005, 07:20:17 pm »

It could be something like that. It could also be our problem. A corrrupt file, for example.

We'll find it.

Thanks for your attention to it.

Alex B · « **Reply #19 on:** January 26, 2005, 07:28:53 pm »

I checked more. First time I had the problem was January 15. Then I had an older ATI driver (from August) and DirectX 9.0 A installed. Only after that I installed the new ATI driver, which needed a newer DirectX before the driver installation could start.

So there were no apparent changes on my side before the problem started.

Alex B · « **Reply #20 on:** January 27, 2005, 09:47:36 am »

I think I have now confirmed that something is broken in MC11 visualizations (at least with ATI Radeon family graphics cards).

Copying the "Vis Studio" folder from MC10.0.173 over the MC11 "Vis Studio" folder fixes the problem entirely. I have tested it with three different PCs and the behavior was identical.

By the way, I liked the old buttons below the display more. Now I had a good chance to play with them side by side on MC10 and MC11. The old buttons are more intuitive and easier & faster to use. Perhaps I am just too familiar with the old system, but that's my opinion.

Media Center Registered 11.0.179 -- C:\Soft\MC\

Microsoft Windows XP Workstation 5.1 Service Pack 1 (Build 2600)
Intel Pentium 4 2857 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 1048 MB, Free - 607 MB

Intel chipset & ATI Radeon 9600 (128 MB video memory)

Media Center Registered 11.0.179 -- C:\Soft\MC\

Microsoft Windows 2000 5.0 Service Pack 3 (Build 2195)
AMD Athlon 1325 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 1048 MB, Free - 786 MB

VIA chipset & First generation ATI Radeon (32 MB video memory)

Media Center Registered 11.0.179 -- C:\Program Files\MC\

Microsoft Windows XP Workstation 5.1 Service Pack 1 (Build 2600)
Intel Pentium 4 2509 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 521 MB, Free - 313 MB

SiS chipset & ATI Mobility Radeon 9000 (64 MB video memory)

Berto · « **Reply #21 on:** January 27, 2005, 10:46:13 am »

Quote from: DJ_Hazelwood on January 25, 2005, 08:28:03 am

Same problem here.

But if i replace the file 'Vis Studio.dll' within the Visualization-Directory with 'Vis Studio.dll' and 'vsc_Default.dll' from an older version (from MC 10 i think) the visualizations work again.

Same for me. With the old dll's everything works fine again.

Jaguu · « **Reply #22 on:** January 27, 2005, 02:48:31 pm »

So this seems to be the real culprit of all those crashes and reboots!

Did the same and replaced "Vis Studio.dll" and "vsc_Default.dll' from MC 10.0.161. The culprit seems to be "vsc_Default.dll".

I played 5 songs over and over again with different setups. Here the results:

1) Playing without any visualisations. All 5 songs played OK (ape).
2) Playing with G-Force: After about 5-6 minutes an automatic system reboot occured.
3) Playing with 2D Vis from J River: Same as 2).
4) Replacing Vis Studio.dll: Sames as 2)
5) Replacing Vis Studio.dll and vsc_Default.dll": Same as 1), Playing is OK.

As most of you have only MC11 hanging, while in my case it automatically reboots, it could be that there is some more underlying problem with my pc. As I have a VIA chipset and Nvidia, it could be the now famous "infinite loop error" that is widely discussed on the Internet.

In any case vsc_DEfault.dll from 10.0.161 makes playing back stable again.

May have to test again with G-force, whether this is an independent problem or also depending on vsc_Default.dll. Will let you know!

JimH · « **Reply #23 on:** January 27, 2005, 03:18:05 pm »

Is G-Force the common link here?

Berto · « **Reply #24 on:** January 27, 2005, 03:24:30 pm »

Quote from: JimH on January 27, 2005, 03:18:05 pm

Is G-Force the common link here?

Could be. I have it installed.

Jaguu · « **Reply #25 on:** January 27, 2005, 03:27:07 pm »

No, there seems to be a difference between G-Force and J River's 2D Visualization:

Testing the same songs with the older dll's from MC10.0.161 gave the following results:

1) J River's 2D Vis seems to be stable after playing the same 5 songs for 3 times.
2) G-Force always causes a system reboot after a few minutes of playing, whether I use the dll's from the current version or the old ones.

So the two crashes do not seem to be correlated.

Berto · « **Reply #26 on:** January 27, 2005, 03:33:21 pm »

Quote from: JimH on January 27, 2005, 03:18:05 pm

Is G-Force the common link here?

I uninstalled G-Force, but the problems with Visualiizations are still there. So G-Force is not the cause I think.

JimH · « **Reply #27 on:** January 27, 2005, 03:41:19 pm »

Quote from: Berto on January 27, 2005, 03:33:21 pm

I uninstalled G-Force, but the problems with Visualiizations are still there. So G-Force is not the cause I think.

Did you also re-boot?

JimH · « **Reply #28 on:** January 27, 2005, 03:42:43 pm »

Is there anyone who has this problem who does not have G-force installed?

I'm not suggesting that G-force IS the problem. I'm just trying to find what is common to this problem. It still may be our problem.

Alex B · « **Reply #29 on:** January 27, 2005, 03:48:41 pm »

Only one of my PCs has G-Force installed. Also, the Vis Studio settings are at default values. The problem is the same with all PCs. And it is easily fixed by taking those dll files from MC 10 folder.

In my case with ATI Radeon cards the visualizations don't even get started. They hang the MC GUI on the first screen draw. The music continues to play even the GUI is frozen. The CPU usage is maximized instantly. If I let MC run in the frozen state long enough after the music has ended the visualization will eventually stop and MC GUI is recovered. That takes at least 30 minutes or so with my fastest PC.

It is obvious that the dll files are somehow broken. Are they changed intentionally for some other than visible reason? The visualizations seem to be identical with the MC10 versions. Could it be possible to just pack the old dll files with the next installation package?

JimH · « **Reply #30 on:** January 27, 2005, 03:51:00 pm »

Quote from: Alex B on January 27, 2005, 03:48:41 pm

It is obvious that the dll files are somehow broken. Are they changed intentionally for some other than visible reason? The visualizations seem to be identical with the MC10 versions. Could it be possible to just pack the old dll files with the next installation package?

We're considering all the options right now. But it would be nice to know.

Did you have G-Force on the other machines and uninstall it?

Berto · « **Reply #31 on:** January 27, 2005, 03:53:55 pm »

Quote from: JimH on January 27, 2005, 03:41:19 pm

Did you also re-boot?

No I did not re-boot, but as Alex B says, the problem also occurs on PC's without G-Force installed.

Alex B · « **Reply #32 on:** January 27, 2005, 04:12:16 pm »

I checked the other PCs just to be sure. Actually the SiS/P4 laptop has G-Force. I haven't used it and I didn't remember that I had installed it months ago. The VIA/Athlon desktop doesn't have G-Force and has never had.

Jaguu · « **Reply #33 on:** January 27, 2005, 04:54:18 pm »

G-Force seems to be a problem of its own.

Deinstalled G-Force completely and reinstalled the vis*dll of the current release replacing the ones from 10.0.161.

Played the same 5 songs again for about 12 minutes in full screen mode without doing anything else except the 2D Vis (Damaged Layers). After 12 minutes the system rebooted.

Next try I will play the same 5 songs with the vis* dll's of MC10.0.161 and G-Force deinstalled. Will let you know again.

One thing would be nice to know. Is there anybody having problems with visualisations that have anything else than a VIA chipset on the motherboard? Because VIA chipset's seem to cause problems with all brands of graphic cards, but especially Nvidia (Infinite loop error)? This could be a problem of its own!

JimH · « **Reply #34 on:** January 27, 2005, 04:56:46 pm »

Try a google search for "via chipset" and "latency".

Alex B · « **Reply #35 on:** January 27, 2005, 05:14:58 pm »

Quote from: Jaguu on January 27, 2005, 04:54:18 pm

Is there anybody having problems with visualisations that have anything else than a VIA chipset on the motherboard?

Yes.

Quote from: Alex B on January 27, 2005, 09:47:36 am

Media Center Registered 11.0.179 -- C:\Soft\MC\

Microsoft Windows XP Workstation 5.1 Service Pack 1 (Build 2600)
Intel Pentium 4 2857 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 1048 MB, Free - 607 MB

Intel chipset & ATI Radeon 9600 (128 MB video memory)

Media Center Registered 11.0.179 -- C:\Soft\MC\

Microsoft Windows 2000 5.0 Service Pack 3 (Build 2195)
AMD Athlon 1325 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 1048 MB, Free - 786 MB

VIA chipset & First generation ATI Radeon (32 MB video memory)

Media Center Registered 11.0.179 -- C:\Program Files\MC\

Microsoft Windows XP Workstation 5.1 Service Pack 1 (Build 2600)
Intel Pentium 4 2509 MHz MMX / Memory: Total - 521 MB, Free - 313 MB

SiS chipset & ATI Mobility Radeon 9000 (64 MB video memory)

Besides, that VIA in the middle is an old chipset for the first generation AMD Athlon and PC-133 memory. It has no known problems as far as I know. The current VIA chipsets are totally different beasts.

Matt · « **Reply #36 on:** January 27, 2005, 05:18:28 pm »

If you're experiencing the freezes, please try tonight's build. We're guessing, but maybe we guessed right.

Jaguu, I don't believe the reboots you are seeing are related to the freeze. Reboots are a hardware failure. I just had to throw a video card away after chasing a similar problem for a month. (crashes were in 3D apps, not MC)

Berto · « **Reply #37 on:** January 28, 2005, 04:22:49 am »

Quote from: Matt on January 27, 2005, 05:18:28 pm

If you're experiencing the freezes, please try tonight's build. We're guessing, but maybe we guessed right.

Jaguu, I don't believe the reboots you are seeing are related to the freeze. Reboots are a hardware failure. I just had to throw a video card away after chasing a similar problem for a month. (crashes were in 3D apps, not MC)

Installed the new build 11.0.181 and the problem is there again. Replaced the two dlll-files with the old ones and everything works fine.

Alex B · « **Reply #38 on:** January 28, 2005, 05:18:06 am »

I am sorry to say, but 181 didn't fix it. At the moment I have tried it only with one PC.

Besides the freezing phenomenon the visualization quality is different with the most of those that still work. The one that I really like to keep on running is Spectrum Analyzer Black & White. I have found it usefully informative and also nice looking.

Unfortunately it has changed to quite ugly. The nice flat-topped spectrum bars have changed to some kind of sharp peaks. I don't know if Vis Studio default settings have changed and if it is possible to fix it just by changing the settings. I haven't touched them (and wouldn't know what to touch without a lot of experimenting).

The change happened several months ago. In fact, I am not sure if it has been like that since I installed MC 11 for the first time in last August. However, the old dll files restore the former pleasant look of this visualization.

I will try the other PCs and attach some pictures of the quality change later on today.

DJ_Hazelwood · « **Reply #39 on:** January 28, 2005, 05:47:15 am »

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=25773.msg178851#msg178851

Very strange ?

Berto · « **Reply #40 on:** January 28, 2005, 06:04:38 am »

Quote from: Alex B on January 28, 2005, 05:18:06 am

I am sorry to say, but 181 didn't fix it. At the moment I have tried it only with one PC.

Besides the freezing phenomenon the visualization quality is different with the most of those that still work. The one that I really like to keep on running is Spectrum Analyzer Black & White. I have found it usefully informative and also nice looking.

Unfortunately it has changed to quite ugly. The nice flat-topped spectrum bars have changed to some kind of sharp peaks. I don't know if Vis Studio default settings have changed and if it is possible to fix it just by changing the settings. I haven't touched them (and wouldn't know what to touch without a lot of experimenting).

The change happened several months ago. In fact, I am not sure if it has been like that since I installed MC 11 for the first time in last August. However, the old dll files restore the former pleasant look of this visualization.

I will try the other PCs and attach some pictures of the quality change later on today.

Spectrum Analyzer Black & White bars are fine here. Did you set Display Quality to Highest?

Alex B · « **Reply #41 on:** January 28, 2005, 06:28:03 pm »

Again, I am sorry to say, but no change with the other two PCs.

Some examples of the display quality differences:

Old dll on top, new dll below

JimH · « **Reply #42 on:** January 28, 2005, 06:47:31 pm »

That looks like CPU cycles are being used somewhere else.

Matt · « **Reply #43 on:** January 28, 2005, 07:20:18 pm »

Please try the build that just went up. The equation parser wasn't working in some cases. It may have been worse on foreign locales.

Thanks for all the help and let us know what you find.

Matt · « **Reply #44 on:** January 28, 2005, 07:47:58 pm »

After thinking some more, if you still have a problem with the latest build, try switching your Windows locale to English and restart MC. If that fixes it, we'll know right where to look.

Thanks.

Berto · « **Reply #45 on:** January 29, 2005, 01:53:36 am »

Quote from: Matt on January 28, 2005, 07:47:58 pm

After thinking some more, if you still have a problem with the latest build, try switching your Windows locale to English and restart MC. If that fixes it, we'll know right where to look.

Thanks.

I'm sorry to say, but still the same problems with 2D Visualizations in build 11.0.183. How do I switch Windows locale to English?

DJ_Hazelwood · « **Reply #46 on:** January 29, 2005, 01:59:13 am »

Quote from: Matt on January 28, 2005, 07:47:58 pm

After thinking some more, if you still have a problem with the latest build, try switching your Windows locale to English and restart MC. If that fixes it, we'll know right where to look.

Thanks.

I tried this and it works!

Berto: In control-panel / region and language-options i changed the language in the first tab (locale settings) to English (USA)

Berto · « **Reply #47 on:** January 29, 2005, 02:43:20 am »

Quote from: DJ_Hazelwood on January 29, 2005, 01:59:13 am

I tried this and it works!

Berto: In control-panel / region and language-options i changed the language in the first tab (locale settings) to English (USA)

Thanks. Indeed it works. Hope that it can be fixed now so I can return to Windows locale Dutch.

Alex B · « **Reply #48 on:** January 29, 2005, 11:19:09 am »

It's just the decimal symbol in Regional Options.
(Control Panel > Regional and Language Options > Customize... > Numbers > Decimal Symbol)

Comma doesn't work. Dot works. Works also with 11.0.181.

Actually, this is not the first time we have stumbled on this. We had a dot/comma problem with replay gain last April: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=21048.msg146990#msg146990.

Jaguu · « **Reply #49 on:** January 29, 2005, 12:25:20 pm »

Now working flawlessly with my pc as well (with Swiss German locales). No more automatic reboots. Tested with 2D Visualisation and now playing for the last two hours continuously with the newest release of G-Force.

Just have to add that I reverted my Bios settings to default values. Optimizing Bios setting might be causing reboots again.

There is only one small bug: Switching back from G-Force to any other visualisations does not bring back the current cover art. It reverts back to the default MC logo instead. Dont' know whether MC11 should handle that or whether it should be reported to Soundspectrum!

INTERACT FORUM

Author Topic: Visualizations make MC freeze (Read 10595 times)