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Author Topic: NEW: SoX Resampling  (Read 110489 times)

T44ISKN

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #50 on: August 09, 2016, 02:51:11 am »

Does the SOX Resampler work over DNLA? :)

I have FLAC files and I'm streaming to a PS4 and transcoding to MP3's.

Would love some better SQ :)


Thanks!


I'd also really like to know the answer to this. Resampling over DLNA did not work in MC21 (despite the user interface giving the impression it should). My renderer cannot play files over 96K.
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T44ISKN

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #51 on: August 09, 2016, 04:52:24 am »

I'd also really like to know the answer to this. Resampling over DLNA did not work in MC21 (despite the user interface giving the impression it should). My renderer cannot play files over 96K.

Looks like there are problems with DLNA and MC22, so will postpone upgrading until it is resolved.

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=106383.0
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Asawendo

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #52 on: August 10, 2016, 11:18:02 pm »

Try using SOX on MC22 to resample my flac files from 16/44.1 into 24/176.4 with very high quality sample. The result is smoother and more liquid top end.
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Magellan

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #53 on: August 11, 2016, 05:26:43 am »

I can see the point when it comes to downsampling, but I canīt see the point doing this in real time. Why not just use a stand-alone resampler and resample the audio files or convert them if needed?
When it comes to upsampling I donīt see the point at all. Could anyone explain whatīs the point with upsampling? (Upsampling in the DAC is another matter)
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kr4

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #54 on: August 11, 2016, 11:27:50 am »

I can see the point when it comes to downsampling, but I canīt see the point doing this in real time. Why not just use a stand-alone resampler and resample the audio files or convert them if needed?
Because then I would have to store multiple copies of the same files to accommodate different needs at different times.

Quote
When it comes to upsampling I donīt see the point at all. Could anyone explain whatīs the point with upsampling? (Upsampling in the DAC is another matter)
I'll let someone else take a shot at this.
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Kal Rubinson
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kotani

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #55 on: August 13, 2016, 05:37:02 am »

I have a question about re-sampling 44.1khz/16bit to something like 88.2khz or 176.4khz 24bit.
There are many arguments about whether there is a difference, and I can see that a lot of it depends on the what the DAC is doing after it receives the data stream, but that is under the assumption that there are no differences being made to the data besides the re-sampling.

The problem is, I use JRiver for volume leveling and also as a 6ch active xo (using the parametric eq), so the output is obviously not the same as the original data. When playing something like redbook 44.1khz/16bit, would it make sense to use the new sox feature to re-sample to something like 176.4khz first, before JRiver applies the xo filters and volume leveling? My mind seems to say yes, but I may not have a good understanding of the effects of the application of filters on extra bits (64bit in jriver internally) vs higher sample rates. Please enlighten me on this subject. Thank you!
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JimH

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #56 on: August 13, 2016, 06:03:40 am »

Split some posts about upsampling.  Please don't start off topic discussions here.
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gappie

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #57 on: August 19, 2016, 09:31:53 am »

i dont know if somebody already reported this.  :)
today i started to try the new sox upsampling. im upsampling from 44.1 to 48. and after a bunch of songs i noticed that the position bar at the top of standard view was already (or stil) halfway the song altough a new song was starting to play. so i tested a bit.
with sox on, after 20.12 minutes of music, the position bar was already 15 seconds in the next song still playing the previous song, before the next song started.
this does not happen when disabling sox for upsampling.

for when its important.
buffer is 6 seconds
not playing from memory
the files are played local from hd
latest build 22.0.18
playback to asio
did i forget something :)

 :)
gab
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HiFiTubes

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #58 on: August 20, 2016, 04:13:28 am »

I'm not sure this is the best place to post this, but Matt asked for folks with DSD256+ devices to try the new PCM2DSD settings last year and I never heard back when I reported problems with my Auralic Vega DAC. The iFi DSD DAC I have works fine with 4XDSD via ASIO but the Vega just times out. Who at JRiver can I ping about this problem?

Does anyone have an Auralic Vega? After offering units with DSD256 Auralic claims you can't use MC but need Foobar which is a very confusing statement to me.
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kstuart

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #59 on: August 20, 2016, 07:44:52 pm »

I'm not sure this is the best place to post this, but Matt asked for folks with DSD256+ devices to try the new PCM2DSD settings last year and I never heard back when I reported problems with my Auralic Vega DAC. The iFi DSD DAC I have works fine with 4XDSD via ASIO but the Vega just times out. Who at JRiver can I ping about this problem?

Does anyone have an Auralic Vega? After offering units with DSD256 Auralic claims you can't use MC but need Foobar which is a very confusing statement to me.

Starting a new thread would be best.

guido310

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #60 on: August 31, 2016, 03:37:23 am »

Hi, i just tried sox and result is very good...btw, i prefer not to upsample or downsample, but convert flac into wave at same frequency with convolution filter inside (audiolense)
I guess Sox sholud work also in change format (when checked obviously)...or not?
In normal playing otherwise should not affect sound....right???
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HiFiTubes

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #61 on: August 31, 2016, 05:10:32 am »

I find my DAC performs better at 352kHz (both on paper and subjectively) so I'm happy to report SoX is a pleasure here with my Vega DAC.

Need to get Audiiolense out of the box, glad to hear you are enjoying it Guido (for now major room treatments working great).
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guido310

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #62 on: August 31, 2016, 05:33:04 am »

I use Audiolense also for active crossovering...it works great...just an advice if you want to use it try Truetime domain with 0 dB max correction boost

My DAC is NOS ethernet DANTE (Focusrite rednet2) not supporting greater than 192 Khz and DSD (i would now try dsd-pcm conversion)
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Caligari

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #63 on: September 07, 2016, 06:08:14 am »

Is SOX used for PCM to DSD on the fly conversions or are you still using your own engine?
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amiti

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #64 on: September 07, 2016, 06:05:44 pm »

Thanks for adding the sox resampler option.

Personally I prefer a gentler slope of the filter than the steep one used. In sox terms it would be 95% (of the bandwidth) or even 91%.

How about adding also an option to to allow aliasing? 91% with aliasing sounds nice.
 
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IOVH

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #65 on: September 11, 2016, 06:44:16 am »

Hi all,

would it be possible to add full-scale SoX resampling options just like in Foobar?




That is pretty much the only thing JRiver is missing over Foobar (and that's why I am 'forced' to use Foobar as of now for audiophile listening). I have been waiting for JRiver to implement something like this for quite some time... and therefore hope you can get it done sometime in the future!



Thank you very much in advance for your consideration!  :)
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Ninouchka

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #66 on: September 26, 2016, 05:56:41 pm »

I always try to stay out of topics like this... but audiophile listening with upsampling??

I speak for all the musicians, composers, mixing engineers (post and pre) etc, like I am.
We create music and deliver good quality mediums. 44.1 kHz 16 bit for normal CD's as the medium cannot go higher.
Why up/down sampling this I don't get. EQing I do get, as everybody's amp and speakers sound different. Pro Studio's tend to
over compress the music is past time (I hope so..), and deliver a flat sound of the mix. So if you want
to hear it at home, as we heard and created it for you, buy a good audio system that doesn't color the sound and play the music flat.
If you don't like that, use EQ to pump up that bass.. whatever you like.
But upsampling won't make anything better, you are just destroying our creations lol
Like mp3s, creating a music CD mp3 album of around 100 MB, that we barely could fit on a 740 MB medium. . .
Or was it created only to make a download easier from the internet or to put more on our Hard Disks.
The sad thing is that most people don't even hear the difference between the mp3 or Flac or Wav audio files.
Studios that create modern music, rarely go over 12000 Hz with the mix, as most of listeners don't hear higher frequencies.
This is a fact.
You can't even EQ those higher frequencies, by putting the dB slider up. What isn't there, can't be added. Simple.
Classical music is totally different, higher harmonies etc, just put the orchestra in a nice audiophile room
and record it straight to pure audio bluray, dsd whatever you want..easyyy.. but even that, some guys want to resample ??

Oh yes, I had to stay on topic... lol
I will try Sox,  I feel  so  sad.


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JimH

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #67 on: September 26, 2016, 07:29:59 pm »

Ninouchka,
Brilliant post.  Thank you.

Jim
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kr4

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #68 on: September 26, 2016, 08:56:05 pm »

But upsampling won't make anything better, you are just destroying our creations lol
I am not an advocate of upsampling but I do not believe it is destructive.
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Kal Rubinson
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thecrow

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #69 on: September 27, 2016, 01:23:14 pm »

I speak for all the musicians, composers, mixing engineers (post and pre) etc, like I am.

Sorry mate you do not speak for me.
I have worked on the technical side in top end studios in London for the past 30 years.
But I do not live in a perfect world and there is no such thing as a perfect DAC.
In order to improve the accuracy of digital to analogue conversions designers have been up-sampling digital audio within their DACs for years.
I think SoX is just another way of trying to improve the digital conversion process and I would certainly not dismiss its results.
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kstuart

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #70 on: September 27, 2016, 01:40:09 pm »

Sorry mate you do not speak for me.
I have worked on the technical side in top end studios in London for the past 30 years.
But I do not live in a perfect world and there is no such thing as a perfect DAC.
In order to improve the accuracy of digital to analogue conversions designers have been up-sampling digital audio within their DACs for years.
I think SoX is just another way of trying to improve the digital conversion process and I would certainly not dismiss its results.

Brilliant post.  Thank you.

Matias

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #71 on: October 13, 2016, 02:02:20 pm »

This is the interface of Resampler-V, a free foobar plug-in. It has parameters to tweak and graphics showing the changes. Just brilliant.
Why can't we have this in JRiver too??

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Bebop0502

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #72 on: October 14, 2016, 01:46:21 pm »

Interesting discussion. But maybe you should start with explaining what it is and the benefits with PCM and DSD I could achive and not least how, in case there is more to do than ticking the box.

I'm just a user and not an engineer...
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kstuart

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #73 on: October 14, 2016, 08:03:44 pm »

Interesting discussion. But maybe you should start with explaining what it is and the benefits with PCM and DSD I could achive and not least how, in case there is more to do than ticking the box.

I'm just a user and not an engineer...
Are you referring to the entire feature?  Or just the post before yours?

If you are referring to the feature as a whole, then it is definitely a case of "if you are not already interested, then you do not need it".

It is something requested by a few people, with some very specific needs.

ForkingTune

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #74 on: November 05, 2016, 01:13:26 am »

Bummer, I finally bought JRiver because I read that it added SOX. And it did but...

...after installing it now, I find it is only the base SOX implementation. That ain't bad for many folks. However, the full range of SOX functions can be of real benefit to many others.

In an earlier post, IOVH and others present the range of settings that I also can tap into when using FB2k.  It helps to make the system continuously enjoyable for 15, even 20 hours non-stop. I have never been able to achieve this with JRiver's typical PCM implementation no matter how much I wanted it and neither have friends of mine who I thought I'd surprise with the new SOX feature.

Still, kudos for going the extra mile in adding basic SOX, which will be really good for many. Please consider adding the other SOX options a "relative" priority and, when it happens, I will happily break the news to the rest of the gang.

For now, I'll hold on to Fb2k for PCM ...but use JRiver for easier DSD playback, on which it does have many charms now  8)



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pschelbert

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #75 on: November 06, 2016, 04:44:54 pm »

Hi

I would like to have it. Just to circumvent the internal DAC filter. SOX would replace it, where I could control it by the advanced parameters.
If it could be implemented I would be glad. However JRiver is a great tool as is.

Peter

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Matias

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #76 on: November 06, 2016, 05:49:06 pm »

Several user requests for +1, now JRiver please do your part and add the parameters. Tks!
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Ki Choi

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #77 on: November 12, 2016, 01:02:38 pm »

Sorry newbie question and just upgraded to MC22 on Win10.

Have SoX enabled and formatted in DSP output to 2X DSD raw AISO.  All PCM formats works good outputting to Mytek Stereo 192 DSD Mastering DAC with latest firmware version converting all PCM files properly to 2x DSD but all DSD64 files are not converting to DSD128.

I saw the same question on MC19 thread but didn't see the answer what I need to do tol convert all DSD files to 2x DSD in realtime.

Thanks.
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Ki Choi

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #78 on: November 17, 2016, 12:46:04 pm »

Bump.

Anybody?

Thanks,
Ki
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #79 on: November 17, 2016, 01:30:05 pm »

As far as I know, the SoX resampler isn't used for DSD conversions (e.g. PCM to DSD or DSD64 to DSD128). Only PCM conversions (e.g. PCM to PCM or DSD to PCM) use the SoX resampler.
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Ki Choi

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #80 on: November 17, 2016, 03:23:13 pm »

Thanks for your response.

I'll start a new thread with the question.

Ki
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bulldogger

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #81 on: November 29, 2016, 12:02:29 am »

I am using a Theta Gen VIII dac. SoX resampling isn't a "clean" sounding as not using it in my set-up. I tried it for SACD to PCM conversion. Any suggestions? Sounds seems to get kind of flat.
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Spike1000

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #82 on: December 02, 2016, 07:45:58 pm »

I am using a Theta Gen VIII dac. SoX resampling isn't a "clean" sounding as not using it in my set-up.
Any suggestions?

Disable the Sox resampling option. . .  :)

Spike

bulldogger

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #83 on: December 02, 2016, 11:44:28 pm »

Disable the Sox resampling option. . .  :)

Spike
I have. I'll try again at later date if more options become available.
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mstan

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #84 on: January 08, 2017, 07:13:21 pm »

Matt,

Don't make SoX the default yet.  I think the current MC SRCC method sounds better than the current implementation of SoX.   It is hard to subjectively characterize the difference but the SRCC method sounds more natural, relaxed whereas SoX causes some slight irritation that seems to build up over extended listening that happens when there is distortion present.   It is subtle but nevertheless noticeable when you switch back to SRCC from SoX.    You guys have any test data on these two methods?

PS: I am not up sampling but just letting MC downsample DSD to 176kHz.   
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sorepinky

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #85 on: January 08, 2017, 11:54:15 pm »

I've been using SoX resampling for some months now and there's absolutely nothing wrong with the sound when resampling any FLAC - be it 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96 or 192 - to 176.4.  It sounds extremely crisp and clean to me.  Then again, there is no way to listen to SoX in isolation from a complete sound system, its environment or my mood, so that perceived clarity probably has very little to do with the resampling algorithm - and I wouldn't claim to hear resampling differences buried deep below the noise floor of any sound system and beyond the threshold of human hearing anyway!  ;D
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mstan

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #86 on: January 09, 2017, 07:41:34 am »

I've been using SoX resampling for some months now and there's absolutely nothing wrong with the sound when resampling any FLAC - be it 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96 or 192 - to 176.4.  It sounds extremely crisp and clean to me.  Then again, there is no way to listen to SoX in isolation from a complete sound system, its environment or my mood, so that perceived clarity probably has very little to do with the resampling algorithm - and I wouldn't claim to hear resampling differences buried deep below the noise floor of any sound system and beyond the threshold of human hearing anyway!  ;D
I didn't listen under double blind conditions so, yes, I am skeptical of my own perception.   And you are right about the noise floor and our hearing threshold.   Still, I thought a heard a difference when I turned SoX off after a day of listening to it but I can't be sure.      I only installed MC22 a day ago and will continue trying SoX but I think it wise for JRiver not to be too hasty to make it the default just yet.   
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Blaine78

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #87 on: February 04, 2017, 01:08:27 am »

I'd like to see more high-quality upsampling options, e.g. minimum phase apodizing. I have an R2R non-oversampling DAC, and these options are very welcome, they replace the average oversampling that 90% of DACs have. Enjoying greatly the high-quality upsampling options that other software vendors have implemented, be nice to see JRiver do the same. High-quality upsampling audio for videos would be a dream come true.
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Eisenhart

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #88 on: February 22, 2017, 08:21:44 am »

Simple request.

Can you add a checkbox in SoX to either enable or disable de-emphasis?

Also,

Are the default setting using dither, and if so, can it be disabled/enabled as a checkbox?

thanks
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Thouston

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #89 on: February 22, 2017, 08:00:25 pm »

Dither can be disabled under Tools-Options-Audio-Advanced.
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Hendrik

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #90 on: February 23, 2017, 12:17:17 am »

We only use SoX for pure resampling, it does not perform de-emphasis, dithering, or any other sort of audio procesing.

Dithering is implemented in Media Center itself, and unrelated to SoX, but you should really never turn Dithering off either way.
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Thouston

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #91 on: February 24, 2017, 09:23:33 pm »

Why the need to dither with 16 bit?
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theoctavist

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #92 on: March 01, 2017, 06:50:44 am »

Don't know much about digital filter technology, but I know what sounds better to me.  The SOX re-sampling is a significant advance in sound quality in my system.  The music flows better without overemphasizing the edges of notes.  The bass lines and percussion are much clearer and it sounds more like instruments are actually being played.

A big thank you for implementing this!
I am thankful that they have integrated Sox(it performs well, , ).  but I have always found statements such as the one above "sounds more like instruments" ...dubious.(we're talking about *minute*...  differences between two high performing SRC algorithms)    I know this isn't hydrogen audio, but it would be nice if claims came with proof *especially* when said claims run counter to current knowledge.  /spiel 
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EfeTe

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #93 on: March 27, 2017, 08:02:24 pm »

Correct me if I'm wrong. In my configuration -DNLA over powerline to my DSD dac- sound comes out exactly identical, to my ears, whether Sox is on or ticked off. I figured when going DNLA to the renderer no Sox can be applied huh?
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kbkaran

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #94 on: April 28, 2017, 02:59:18 am »

I am completely taken by the upsampling in MC22. I have never like upsampling in previous versions but in a speaker setup. But the current MC22+ifi Nano iDSD is very addictive. Interestingly, I do not like the SoX option. I also do not like the upconversion to DSD or 2xDSD. With the native upsampling, I feel I am getting a more punchy and clear sound. Another parameter of fidelity in my books, is recreating the recoding venue ambience and with 44.1K upsample to 352KHz I feel the soundstage is pretty three - dimensional with good depth. This is very very good.
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JRi

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #95 on: August 13, 2017, 09:57:50 am »

Does the change take place instantly or restart/next track has to be played?
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Hendrik

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #96 on: August 13, 2017, 04:28:48 pm »

Playback has to be stopped for the change to take affect.
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imeric

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Re: NEW: SoX Resampling
« Reply #97 on: November 28, 2018, 11:33:51 am »

I am completely taken by the upsampling in MC22. I have never like upsampling in previous versions but in a speaker setup. But the current MC22+ifi Nano iDSD is very addictive. Interestingly, I do not like the SoX option. I also do not like the upconversion to DSD or 2xDSD. With the native upsampling, I feel I am getting a more punchy and clear sound. Another parameter of fidelity in my books, is recreating the recoding venue ambience and with 44.1K upsample to 352KHz I feel the soundstage is pretty three - dimensional with good depth. This is very very good.

kbkaran I'd be interested to know more as to why you prefer the standard resampling vs SoX.  I too have a similar setup and do not usually resample but I find it handy for background listening while working and using the iNano.  Crossfading and Volume leveling work great no matter what file format is being used when shuffling tunes... This is not my main rig and haven't' done much A/B comparisons (Wouldn't be able to tell the difference anyway on this system....Vintage Akai amp with Old Bose 601's so...It sounds nice but Imaging/Soundstage is very poor...Mostly due to the speakers...)  I'll play some more with this though using headphones when time allows...Or on my main rig...
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