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[steff]

Hello
after playing with the trial for a while, I got the MC23 license.

I am experiencing a very annoying issue that prevents me to play correctly high res FLAC.
I am talkling about 24bit up to 352 kHz PCM or 11 MHz DSD stored on a very high performance NAS.
MC23 is running on a Windows 10 laptop and I spent lot of time to disable or remove all not necessary programs, apps and service (Win Update, antivirus, app store, ecc...ec...)
No wired ethernet available, just the WiFi and the laptop is equipped with an Intel "ac" card. I can connect with 600 Mbps and the sustained transfer rate from the NAS is about 40 MByte/s, so more than enough for everything
During MC23 playback now the CPU usage is always at 20% average and 30% max peaks, so CPU is not the issue.
The DAC is a Tech UD-503 with Teach ASIO drivers loaded on the Windows.

Let us come to the problem.
The problem occurrs just playing from the NAS: I get costantly pops and glitches and small interruptions. Looking at the task manager, this happens whenever MC23 loads a new piece of the file from the NAS.
Moving the files from the NAS to the local SSD disk, no problems at all.
It seems (lloking at the network activity) that MC23 does not load all the file but loads it in several steps. After some seconds of file are loeaded, MC23 plays perfectly... then it loads a new piece and audio is suddenly dropping then restarts and so on...
If I force the network card to work on the 2.4 Ghz, then the network speed drops because it uses 802.11n instead 802.11ac, but the problem is really much less intensive, even if it does not disappear.

Looking at the audio configuration, I can found the Memory Playback option: great, I was thinking... this would solve for sure my issue.
Unfortunately no because it seems it does not work the way I was expecting.
Let me explain:
Enabling the option to LOAD the file into memory, and playing from the NAS, this is the behaviour:
1) MC23 starts to play the file immediately, it does not wait for the file to be fully loaded into memory
2) In parallel of 1), MC23 SOME TIMES fully load the file and in this case, the playback is PERFECT, but some times MC23 continue to load the file steps by step in the same way Memory Playback was not active and in this case I have the same audio problems.
3) during 1), since at the very same time MC23 loads and play, becuase of the network activity, the audio is poor until the file complete to load because of the network activity.

Questions:
1) how to force MC23 to start playback not immediately after clicking PLAY, but only after the file has been loaded?
2) Why Memory Playback some time loads the entire file but sometimes loads the file still piece by piece?

Tried both 32 and 64 bit of MC23
Lot of free RAM available and not used.

[steff]

Mine is the very same problem described here
https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/20873-jriver-playback-stuttering-dsf-files-served-via-a-nas-with-jriver-quotplay-files-from-memory-instead-of-diskquot-option-set/
by BOBAudio, even if he is talking about JRiver 19 and not 23.

[dtc]

The current implementation of play from memory is different that in MC 19. In 19, I believe playback did start before the track was fully loaded. But that has been changed  in the new implementation. Playback is delayed until the file is fully loaded. In fact, they added a message that says the file is loading.

My experience is loading compressed files into memory, both loading one file and loading the whole album. In both cases I do not see playback happening before the full loading, unless not all the file/track can be loaded into available memory. In fact, I once mistakenly loaded a whole album over a very slow network connection. It took over an hour then started playing.

What version of MC are you running and which memory playback option are you using? Do you see the problem when the files are on a locate disc or just when accessing the NAS?

[Ekpen]

Hello
after playing with the trial for a while, I got the MC23 license.

I am experiencing a very annoying issue that prevents me to play correctly high res FLAC.
I am talkling about 24bit up to 352 kHz PCM or 11 MHz DSD stored on a very high performance NAS.
MC23 is running on a Windows 10 laptop and I spent lot of time to disable or remove all not necessary programs, apps and service (Win Update, antivirus, app store, ecc...ec...)
No wired ethernet available, just the WiFi and the laptop is equipped with an Intel "ac" card. I can connect with 600 Mbps and the sustained transfer rate from the NAS is about 40 MByte/s, so more than enough for everything
During MC23 playback now the CPU usage is always at 20% average and 30% max peaks, so CPU is not the issue.
The DAC is a Tech UD-503 with Teach ASIO drivers loaded on the Windows.



Questions:
1) how to force MC23 to start playback not immediately after clicking PLAY, but only after the file has been loaded?
2) Why Memory Playback some time loads the entire file but sometimes loads the file still piece by piece?

Tried both 32 and 64 bit of MC23
Lot of free RAM available and not used.

Quote shortened please.

Could this be the source of my audio issues when playing via dlna on my internal and external RAID boxes?
Maybe MC could wait for enough video to load  in memory before it begins to play the content. Another  suggestion from me ?

Thanks.
George

[~OHM~]

someone call a exterminator 

[steff]

- Dtc
I am using MC23 on Win10
I tried all the available options for Memory Playback (song, album, decoded)

I can recofirm right now, since I performed another session of tests.
with any memory playback option, sometime it buffers the entire song, sometime it load it from the NAS step by step.

The NAS is an HP Proliant server running Ubuntu and hardware raid controller.

P.S.: I have another setup, Raspberry Rpi3 and piCorePlayer and the official LCD touch screen: it cost 100 € and it is perfect on the very same network and NAS

[dtc]

If you watch the memory usage with Task Manager can you see any pattern? It should grow to include everything, then playback should start. Does playback start when the memory usage usage is still growing?

If I remember correctly if there is not enough available memory, like for a 11 MHz DSD album, it defaults to individual tracks. Are you seeing something like that?

Do you see the same behavior if the album is on the SSD?

[JimH]

Could this be the source of my audio issues when playing via dlna on my internal and external RAID boxes?

No.

[steff]

If you watch the memory usage with Task Manager can you see any pattern? It should grow to include everything, then playback should start. Does playback start when the memory usage usage is still growing?

If I remember correctly if there is not enough available memory, like for a 11 MHz DSD album, it defaults to individual tracks. Are you seeing something like that?

Do you see the same behavior if the album is on the SSD?

Yes, playback sometimes starts when memory usage is still growing, but not always... some times (most of times) playback starts while still loading, it starts immediately after clicking "play" on the file.

I agree... a 11 Mhz file is VERY huge, but it happens even with 200 MB PCM

As I told, if I move the files from the NAS to the local hard disk... no problem at all... I mean the sound is perfect regardless the memory playback setting. I did not investigate the disk activities.

It seems a problem regarding the HW architecture: whenever there is network activity... then the playback is very bad.
The less the bandwidht... the better the sound: as I told in the first post, forcing the WLAN adapter to work @ 801.11n and not in 802.11ac, then the throughput is less (I mean I can not reach 30 or 40 MB/s sustained) and limited to more or less 10 MByte/s. In this conditions memory playback suffers the same problems, but if I keep it DISABLED the sound is MUCH MUCH MORE better.

The embedded WLAN adapter is an Intel one and yesterday I got a Edimax WLAN USB adapter equipped with a Realtek chipset and, unfortunately, the behaviour is the very same.

I am adding an additional problem with Memory Playback switched ON:
Let me say... I am playing a file, regardless the sound quality... then while still playing I switch to another track.
The size of the JRiver MC23 window grow up overlapping the Windows taskbar that becomes suddenly hidden and masqueraded by the JRiver one.
After a while the new track starts playing and the JRiver window size go back to its size.

Additional infos: even if I wish to use JRiver ONLY for audio, I tested it playing FullHD video (even 12 GB .mkv movie) hosted on the very same NAS and displaying on an external TV and delivering the audio with the same Teac USB DAC. it is absolutely perfect, both video and audio.

[Spike1000]

I am adding an additional problem with Memory Playback switched ON:
Let me say... I am playing a file, regardless the sound quality... then while still playing I switch to another track.
The size of the JRiver MC23 window grow up overlapping the Windows taskbar that becomes suddenly hidden and masqueraded by the JRiver one.
After a while the new track starts playing and the JRiver window size go back to its size.

This happens (can happen?) on Windows 10  when MC is 'busy'; the UI 'goes away' for a few seconds, the task bar disappears and the MC UI expands to the whole of the screen as you describe. I suspect it's happening as the new file is loaded into memory and a (single?) thread gets maxed out for a few seconds.

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,111534.0.html

I've haven't experienced it for a long time though. There are other threads on it in the forum.

As for you main issue; if it were me I'd test your setup with wired connectivity only (ie temporarily remove the WI-Fi from the equation). If wired is OK see if you can determine where the potential 'bottleneck' is. Looks like it not the adapter as you've changed that, but there still is a wired to wireless bridge somewhere in the system (unless the NAS is wireless. . . .)

Spike

[steff]

As for you main issue; if it were me I'd test your setup with wired connectivity only (ie temporarily remove the WI-Fi from the equation). If wired is OK see if you can determine where the potential 'bottleneck' is. Looks like it not the adapter as you've changed that, but there still is a wired to wireless bridge somewhere in the system (unless the NAS is wireless. . . .)

Spike

Unfortunately the laptop does not have any wired port... just the WiFi and I do not have any USB-to-Ethernet adapter.
I can just confirm that the same files are OK from local hard disk.

In my technical room at home there is a Netgear Gbps switch (professional one, not consumer). The NAS (HP Proliant server) is hardwired to it together with TV, PS3, Skybox and the router. On the same Netgear switch it is hardwired the Router\access point provided by Vodafone and the laptop running JRiver is connedted to it via WiFi.

I remember to the forum that I have Raspberry Rpi3 with piCorePlayer and Jivelite and runs perfect using WiFi and playing the very same files.

[Spike1000]

Unfortunately the laptop does not have any wired port... just the WiFi and I do not have any USB-to-Ethernet adapter.

In which case I'd borrow a laptop with a wired network port, use/borrow a desk top PC with a wired network port or buy/borrow a USB to Ethernet adapter. If they work fine it's looking like it's the laptop / Vodaphone bridge combination. That could be hardware, drivers, OS issues, antivirus, WI-FI interference etc. To eliminate those would take some more tests.

Again, if it was me, I'd
1) reboot everything
2) re-install MC on the laptop
3) Triple check to ensure  ANY antivirus programs are excluded from scanning ANY MC programs/files/databases and ANY media files. As a test you may want to completely remove any AV to see if it helps.
4) Verify that any drivers are from the manufacturer (not Microsoft via windows update).

YMMV

Spike

[steff]

In which case I'd borrow a laptop with a wired network port, use/borrow a desk top PC with a wired network port or buy/borrow a USB to Ethernet adapter. If they work fine it's looking like it's the laptop / Vodaphone bridge combination. That could be hardware, drivers, OS issues, antivirus, WI-FI interference etc. To eliminate those would take some more tests.

Again, if it was me, I'd
1) reboot everything
2) re-install MC on the laptop
3) Triple check to ensure  ANY antivirus programs are excluded from scanning ANY MC programs/files/databases and ANY media files. As a test you may want to completely remove any AV to see if it helps.
4) Verify that any drivers are from the manufacturer (not Microsoft via windows update).

YMMV

Spike

I will work on the test you suggested even if I personally do not think it a problem coming from the "infrastructure" (router, access point, switch, NAS...)

For your suggestions:
the laptop has been rebooted so many times... :-(
MC23 has been installed and removed bith 64 and 32 bit, with no difference in the problem
The MCAfee (perinstalled on the laptop out of the box) has been uninstalled
After MCAfee uninstall, then MS Defender started automatically. Even Defender has been uninstalled
I did not changed the device drivers, but looking better into the details, I can confirm that bot the graphic card and network card have drivers provided by Intel and not from Microsoft anyway... I am going to manually update to the latest ones.

I will let know

[Awesome Donkey]

Even Defender has been uninstalled

If you're using Windows 10, I don't even think this is possible as Windows Defender seems to be integrated pretty deeply into Windows 10 now - I wouldn't even try removing it in the first place as you're likely to mess the system up trying to remove something that deeply integrated into the system (trying to force remove Cortana also comes to mind here). The best you can probably do in regards to Defender is to exclude EVERYTHING you can including Media Center's directories, executables, DLL files, the file types of your media (e.g. flac, wav, ape, etc.) and the network location of your NAS (and anywhere else media may be stored).

If the issue(s) happen with files over the network via the NAS and not with local files, that suggests to me the source of the issue(s) is likely network related.

[tyler69]

If the issue(s) happen with files over the network via the NAS and not with local files, that suggests to me the source of the issue(s) is likely network related.

Or related to how MC processes media served by a network.

[Awesome Donkey]

Or related to how MC processes media served by a network.

Perhaps, but it could also mean that the network simply isn't fast enough to load files over the network (or something goes wrong during the middle of it). Not sure, never really messed with network shares that much, rather hardwire things.

[steff]

If the issue(s) happen with files over the network via the NAS and not with local files, that suggests to me the source of the issue(s) is likely network related.

Believe me, I am not a JRiver expert, but I do not think so.
 Let me split the problem into two part:

1) First part: audio interruption playing JRiver as configured after a fresh install
After a fresh install, Memory Playback is DISABLED. OK. I am not a memory playback fanatic... I just wish to have things working.
I open any FLAC file on my NAS with one eye on the task manager and my hears wearing my AKG
Sound and network activity immediately start.
After let me say... 5-10 seconds, network activity stops but the sound still plays
after a while network activity restarts again and sound stops with noise but immediately restarts
Let me say that: if I copy a huge file from the NAS, the network activity is high and is costant until the file is copied
Playing the same file... no... it is loaded with "network spike"... up to 200-300-400 Mbps
I hear sound problems every time I have one of this "spike"
Switching the WiFi from "ac" to "n" will produce again spikes in the network activity, but these spikes are lower and longer (it is obvious... less bandwidht) and I have less
audio problems

2) the second problem comes trying to find a solution to the first one
In my mind: if the network activity produces audio problem... let use the Memory Playback!
In my mind it let JRiver to load the file into memory then (and not before or during) JRiver should play it
I do not know if my mind is right or not... but what I was supposing, does not happen.
Even with Memory Playback set to ON, the behaviour is the very same as before... the file is played back immediately, without waiting for the file to be fully loaded into memory and I have the same network spikes as before
I must admit that some time Memory Playback works: hitting play will produce the message "buffering" and works correctly.
P.S.: some time I noticed a pop-up saying "spinning up hard drive..." (hard disk on the NAS have spin down disabled)

More clear now?

If problem 1) could be originated from network infrastructure, WiFi, NAS... whatever...
then Memory Playback should be the solution, but it does not work as expected and I have to face problem 2)

For sure... problem 2) is because of JRiver and not the infrastructure

[Spike1000]

For your suggestions:
the laptop has been rebooted so many times... :-(

You should reboot/power cycle all your network equipment (especially the wireless access point/bridge) and the NAS.

It looks like you have a 'weird' issue. Initial valid attempts to fix haven't worked, so it's time to step back a bit and confirm some baselines (ie reboot/power cycle everything) and verify the natural assumptions you're making are really valid and true.

YMMV

Spike

[kr4]

Perhaps, but it could also mean that the network simply isn't fast enough to load files over the network (or something goes wrong during the middle of it). Not sure, never really messed with network shares that much, rather hardwire things.

I agree.  I am running v23 under Win10 with a wired connection to the NAS.  I just loaded a 5.0Gb track which began play in about 4 seconds and plays without interruption/noise using "Load decoded file into memory."  If you are having a MC problem (and not a network/CPU limitation), there has to be some setup issue.

[Awesome Donkey]

I guess the best way to test whether or not it's a wireless network issue is to try plugging the NAS wired into the network (and if possible going wired between the PC and access point/router) and see if it happens.

If you try going all wired and the issue does not occur, it's the wireless more-than-likely.

[dtc]

It is quite likely that the NAS and its connection is part of the problem, but it seems like MC may also be part of the problem. If MC starts playing before the data is actually in memory, then that is a problem. Just guessing here, but perhaps MC puts out a request to the NAS for the data and assumes it is delivered basically instantaneously. When the last request goes out MC starts to play. But, if the data has not actually been delivered to memory, you get the situation the poster is describing. Playback should only start when the data is fully in memory.   I have no idea if this is the case, but it seems like MC should take into account any slow delivery of the data from the NAS before it starts playing.

As I said above, I once loaded an album over a very slow wireless connection as a test, and it took an hour to load. But it did not play until everything was loaded. That was on Windows 7 and the connection was from PC to PC, not to a NAS. So, the issue may be specific to a NAS and it may be specific to Windows 10.

The behavior reported is not how I would expect MC to handle the situation even if there is a slow wireless connection to a NAS.

[dtc]

Are you using any DSPs for playback? Not sure it matters, but something to think about. Also, what is your output device?  Your comment about 20% to 30% CPU usage is unusual. I do not see that much usage even on a very slow machine unless I am doing something else.  Grasping at straws.

[Spike1000]

I have a vague memory of a posting a few months ago that (I think) discussed apparent (potential) differences in how windows handled 'io' or maybe 'file handles' on a local physical drive differently to that on a network share. . . I think I may have commented on that. Sorry it's a bit vague but does anyone remember the thread? I wonder if that's what we're seeing here?

Spike

[JimH]

It is quite likely that the NAS and its connection is part of the problem, but it seems like MC may also be part of the problem. If MC starts playing before the data is actually in memory, then that is a problem. Just guessing here, but perhaps MC puts out a request to the NAS for the data and assumes it is delivered basically instantaneously. When the last request goes out MC starts to play. But, if the data has not actually been delivered to memory, you get the situation the poster is describing.

That's not correct.  Please don't speculate about how MC works internally.  It only adds to the confusion.

[dtc]

That's not correct.  Please don't speculate about how MC works internally.  It only adds to the confusion.

Jim - it was meant as an example. Sorry for the wording. But for some reason MC is not waiting for the data to be fully loaded into memory. Maybe the team can chime in with some insight.

[Matt]

If MC starts playing before the data is actually in memory, then that is a problem.

There are two memory modes so it depends which you're talking about.

The memory modes that load the not decoded files into memory load the entire file (or set of files) before playback is started.  This is why we recently added a wait message in case the files are on a slow drive that takes a while.

If you instead use the memory mode that loads the decoded file into memory, the decoding and loading happens in a thread at the same time as playback is started.  It takes less than a second to load most files, so the hit is pretty small.

[dtc]

There are two memory modes so it depends which you're talking about.

The memory modes that load the not decoded files into memory load the entire file (or set of files) before playback is started.  This is why we recently added a wait message in case the files are on a slow drive that takes a while.

If you instead use the memory mode that loads the decoded file into memory, the decoding and loading happens in a thread at the same time as playback is started.  It takes less than a second to load most files, so the hit is pretty small.

Thanks Matt. That is exactly what I see with not decoded files.   Unfortunately, the OP seems to be seeing something different from his NAS. Any thoughts on his issue?

[dtc]

There are two memory modes so it depends which you're talking about.

If you instead use the memory mode that loads the decoded file into memory, the decoding and loading happens in a thread at the same time as playback is started.  It takes less than a second to load most files, so the hit is pretty small.

In the decoded case, is the entire file/files retrieved from the disk/NAS before these two processes start?  This issue is what is happening when the file/files are on a slow NAS.  Thanks for any clarification.

[JimH]

Test without the NAS.

Test without antivirus.  Uninstall the antivirus.

[Matt]

steff, I don't believe you've said which memory mode you're trying.

Please test the mode:
"Load full album (not decoded) into memory"

Then report your results.  Thanks.

[steff]

Test without the NAS.

Test without antivirus.  Uninstall the antivirus.

as I told you, I already did the test.
No NAS.. same files moved to the local hard disk... it is perfect. no problem at all
There is no antivirus running on the NAS and MC23 folder, I mean the AV is not scanning the NAS mounted folder

Regarding DSP and CPU usage.
I wrote that CPU usage was about 20% - 30%. It was correct. Just after unboxing the new laptop and installed JRiver.
After removing everything (windows update, antivirus, microsoft store, any not necessary application etc.) now, during the playback the CPU load is always UNDER 10%
I am not using DSP, I want bitperfect.

Regarding the NAS: it is not a traditional NAS (no QNap, no Synology, no Tecus, etc.) but it is an HP Proliant server running Ubuntu and SAMBA.
its performances are very very high: from a laptop with the wired ehternet I can read and write at the full Gbps speed (100 MBs sustained)
Reading\writing from the laptop where I have JRiver installed and using WiFi, the sustained transfer rate is "limited" to 40 (MBs mega-bytes) since it connects with 500 Mbps (more or less) being an 802.11ac adapter.

Please, let us go back to the problems:
if I have problems playing from the NAS because of whatever, why (problem 2) JRiver is not loading the entire file before starting to playback it of Memory Playback is set to ON ?
Regardless the network speed... it MUST load then stop network traffic... then playback it.

[steff]

steff, I don't believe you've said which memory mode you're trying.

Please test the mode:
"Load full album (not decoded) into memory"

Then report your results.  Thanks.

I provided this info at the very beginning:
regardeless the memory mode, the behaviour is the very same
In particular with the first one on the menu (Load full file not decoded), most of times it start playing immediately while still loading the file, then it continues to load piece by piece, very few times it correctly load the file then start playing only after the file is fully loaded.

[JimH]

No NAS.. same files moved to the local hard disk... it is perfect. no problem at all

So this is either a NAS problem or antivirus problem.

There is no antivirus running on the NAS and MC23 folder, I mean the AV is not scanning the NAS mounted folder

Uninstall the antivirus, just to test.  They can't be trusted.

Please, let us go back to the problems:
if I have problems playing from the NAS because of whatever, why (problem 2) JRiver is not loading the entire file before starting to playback it of Memory Playback is set to ON ?

That isn't the problem.  Please try the above.

It's almost certainly a NAS or antivirus problem.

You could try putting files on another machine on the network, just to test.

[JimH]

Windows 10 has known problems working with SAMBA.

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,114059.msg788442.html#msg788442

[Awesome Donkey]

Uninstall the antivirus, just to test.

If it's Windows Defender, it probably can't be removed from a system without possibly breaking the system due to Microsoft deeply integrating it into Windows 10. In the case of Defender, disabling real-time protection and adding exceptions for MC's directories, executables, DLL files, file storage location(s) and file type exclusions for the types of media you're using (e.g. flac, wav, avi, m4v, etc.) *should* suffice. I do plan on within the next month writing up the long awaited Windows Defender on Windows 10 taming for MC tutorial with my next clean install of Windows 10.

They can't be trusted.

This, good sir, is the understatement of the year. They really can't be anymore due to the things they can do to systems for the sake of "security" (e.g. BitDefender injecting DLLs into applications causing ntdll.dll crashes, the whole Meltdown/Spectre Windows 10 patch debacle, etc.).

[steff]

Update regarding my problem.
Before leaving the office, I got a different laptop, again Win10 64 bit + MC23.
Not time so far to uninstall and disable all the not necessary stuff.
Connected at home to same network and to the same NAS... it plays audio with no issue. It is a 2k€ machine with 3.5 Ghz Intel i5, 8 GB ram.
Anyway... checking the behavior of memory playback... WOW... it behaves in the VERY same way as the other machine.
1) Load full file into memory.
Starts playing immediately and load the file from NAS little by little
2) Load full album
correctly load the file into memory and after that starts playing but.... but what??? if during the playback I switch to another track, it is played immediately and again loaded little by little
Maybe its behaviour is same as the other machine, just not enough time to deeply test.

Is it because of the NAS???

OK... I shared a folder on my desktop PC at home, copied into it the same FLAC test files

Tested both the old laptop and the new one against the shared folder on the PC...
result: SAME BAHAVIOUR

So... it is not the NAS.

Could be the network?
Unfortunately both laptop do not have wired ethernet...
I set up an ad hoc wifi connection between the two laptops under test and the desktop PC equipped with a USB WiFi card (the Edimax 802.11ac I am using in the Raspberry).
Yes... I still have the WiFi, but it is different than the one provided by my infra.
result: SAME BAHAVIOUR

Last test.
I was running MC23 23.0.91 but I see that there is also .94 here around
Tested also .94 64 bit.
SAME BEHAVIOUR

So... I do not know what it is, but for sure now I can confirm it is not the NAS and not the network at my home.

[dtc]

What is your output device? Might matter if it is a DLNA device, for example. So, internal card, usb, HDMI? There have also been reported driver problems that can cause problems with memory playback, like on a Teac DAC. So, what device are you using?

How are you selecting what album to play? I assume just through a standard view, click on album and click on first track.  Again, grasping at straws.

When you load a decoded album into memory, the memory usage of MC in Task Manager should increase from its non-playing value to that value plus the size of the files it loads into memory. So, it MC is 50 MB and the album is 200 MB, when loaded it should go to about 250 MB. Then, it stays  there as it plays. You can select different tracks in the album and the memory usage should not change. That is what I see. Is that what you see?

[steff]

Now I am back from another test session... and I got a partial positive result... unfortunately no fix at all but at least I addressed the problems.

Problem 1) intermittent stops in audio playback (with no memory load)
I got from a friend another DAC and the sound playback is now perfect.
So, with the Teac UD-503 I am experiencing the intermittent stops, while with a M2Tech HiFace DAC... no problems at all.
I am crazy because my Teac costs 6 times the M2Tech... but... what to do? Blame to Teac?
It happens both with ASIO and WASAPI...
Not solved, but addressed

Problem 2) file not loaded into memory even if Load Full File into Memory is enabled.
Now this must be solved by JRiver developer...
In the previous posts i told that the problem was happening most of times and not always
Now i got the cause!
Playing (both with the Teac and the M2Tech) PCM FLAC files, the file is NEVER loaded into memory, but it is played immediately and loaded little by little while playing.
Playing DSD files the file is ALWAYS loaded in advance into memory and just when full loaded then playback starts.
Is this behaviour correct or the file should be loaded regardless PCM or DSD ?

Since problem 2, if fixed, will fix also my original problem 1, now I am expecting feedback from JRiver team.

That's all for today.

Many many helps to everybody here for the support.

[dtc]

There was at least one report of a problem with a Teac device and memory playback. That may be a related issue. That user got crashes, but it indicates that the Teac driver may be the issue.

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,113844.msg786850.html#msg786850

Sorry, the correct link is

https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,113844.msg786829.html#msg786829

[dtc]

FLAC files load fine for me when loading full album not decoded.

[steff]

I am not experiencing any crashes.

It is not (in my case) a problem of the Teac since the memory playback problem happens with both the M2tech and the Teac.
If the driver is crappy... I will experience different problems than files not loaded into memory.

Why DSD are always loaded and PCM never? with both the DAC...

The test has been done with LOAD FULL FILE enabled, not lod full album

I was going to bed... but I will try the FULL ALBUM option.

FULL ALBUM or FULL FILE... no difference at all.
FLAC not loaded, DSD loaded.

Looking at the task manager \ memory, I can see very cearly that the memory usage increase by the size of the DSD file but no change with FLAC\PCM
The average size of my DSD is 800 MB and 400 MB the size of PCM

[steff]

More tests this morning.

Removed MC23 and installed the old MC19. There is just one option for memory playback. Enabling it this is the behaviour:

For both DSD and PCM, memory eneabled, the playback starts immediately while the FULL FILE is being loaded.

Just for test, i installed Teac HR Player, there is the option to "expand to memory" that means to buffer the full file in advance and it is correct:
for both DSD and PCM, the file is loaded into the memory and only after it starts to play.

Definitely I suppose there is something strange in MC23, where DSD are fully loaded before playing while PCM are not.

[steff]

So, after additional tests, let me resume:

MC23
Load Full File in memory.
it works for DSD file, DSD files are played immediately after clicking "play" without waiting the file to be fully loaded
it does not work for PCM\FLAC at all
this test has been done on two different computer with 8 GB ram
this happens for both files played from local SDD and from NAS

MC19
both FLAC\PMC and DSD are buffered into memory while being played, so same behaviour as MC23 with DSD, but in this case it works for FLAC\PCM too

Tested even with Foobar and Teac HR Player: both them buffer the file into memory and then play, NAS and local SDD.

Waiting developers answer.

ciao

[steff]

I downloaded MC19, MC20, MC21, MC22 and of course MC23
Installed each of them on my laptop and tested the LOAD FULL FILE IN MEMORY option playing DSF\DSD and FLAC\PCM from my NAS.

Here is the complete report:

MC19
both FLAC\DSF files are bufferend into memory and playback start immediately without waiting for the file to fully loaded

MC20
same af MC19

MC21
same as MC20 and MC19

MC22
both FLAC\DSF are buffered and playback starts only after the file is fully loaded

MC23
DSF\DSD files are buffered and playback start after buffering is completed
FLAC\PCM it does not work... files are no buffered at all

Developer team let me know what to do, please.

P.S.: in case of MC23 and DSD, when buffering works correctly, if I switch track while playing and old track, then MC23 will continue to play the old one until the new one is loaded, then is stops playing the old one and starts the new one.

You should (after fixing the problem of buffering) eneable the possibility to stop playing the old track whenever the user switch to a new one.

Let me know.

[dtc]

I typically load the whole album to memory, so have not looked at load file to memory for a while. I see the same behavior as steff.

I tested using large single track albums - a 341 MB FLAC and a 754 MB dsf.  It really seems like flac files are not fulling loading into memory with Load Full File (not decoded).

When loading the dsf file, the whole file (754 MB) loads into memory using both Load Full File (not decoded) and Load Full Album (not decoded).

When loading flac files, the whole file (341 MB) loads into memory when using Load Full Album (not decoded) but with Load Full File (not decoded) the whole file is not loaded as it plays.

The attached screen shots show that when playing the 341 MB flac file loaded into memory, the memory usage is only 68 MB., versus 408 MB when loading the same track as an album.

Windows 7, MC 23.0.94, 64 bit.

[steff]

thanks DTC for your additional check, confirming my problem!

Now I hope someone from the developers team will fix it very soon (it was working before, so it is a matter of minutes to make it working again)

Let me add another point.

In some cases (like mine) someone need to play from memory because the network activity conflicts with the audio streaming activity.
Having the full file loaded into memory BEFORE starting to play it is a VERY usefoul feature.
Now... suppose the load full album is working correctly, what will happen when I have a file loaded into memory and I switch from current track to another?
Network activity starts to load the new selected track while JRiver continues to play the old one... and troubles rise because again we have something playing from one side and something else loading from the network from the other side.

So, Please... dear developers, add the feature to stop playing the current track when JRiver receives the command to switch to another track.

[Matt]

Thanks for the testing everyone.  We found a problem with FLAC files and will have it fixed next build.

From the history:
Fixed: The option to load a non-decoded file to memory wasn't working properly for FLAC files.

[steff]

Thanks a lot, very much.

May I expect to have the option to stop playing a track whenever I switch to another?
It is a nonsense to continue playing while buffering and moreover I choose to buffer to avoid drop-out \ stuttering and if JRiver continue to play while loading next track, it is a problem.

Regards.

[dtc]

Thanks Matt. Will test as soon as I see the fix.

[steff]

feel free to provide to me any fix available: even if I am paying for the JRiver license, and so I would exptect something just working... you are more than welcome to let me have a look in advance.