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Author Topic: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming  (Read 52393 times)

JimH

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NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« on: June 27, 2018, 09:05:35 am »

JRiver has a lossless streaming service called Radio JRiver. 

The emphasis is on high quality audio.  It has two major components:

Cloudplay
Cloudplay lets you build a playlist of lossless files (FLAC, APE, ALAC, etc.) and (right click) Upload to Cloud (JRiver's server at Amazon).  You will receive an e-mail with links.

Radio JRiver
Under Streaming and on the Cloudplay page, you'll find Radio JRiver buttons. 

Radio JRiver Stations
Classical
Jazz
Eclectic
Rock
Try Me (a wide assortment)

Clicking on any one of these downloads an MPL Playlist, which JRiver can play.  There is a new aspect to this that we call Super MPL or Super Playlists.   A Super Playlist contains more than one MPL, and it can be set to shuffle the playlists within it, but not the files in each playlist.

Still Growing
We expect to add more content, more stations, and to improve the quality of programming in each one.

At this time, most of the programming is done by Ted Ringer.  He worked at JRiver many years ago, and he has a massive collection of music and a passion for building playlists.  I hope you'll welcome him to the forum.

We are licensing the rights for these files.  We appreciate any support you can give.  There is a Listener Supported link at the bottom of the Radio JRiver page to a donation page.  You can donate at any level.

Panel
You'll also find Radio JRiver stations under Panel.  They can be played in Panel or to other JRiver zones.

Panel settings allow you to control the conversion of the stream, so you can use less bandwidth or get full quality.  Click on the settings icon to find these options.

Panel Instructions

More
All files that are uploaded have been processed by JRiver's Audio Analysis.  This means that you can use JRiver's Volume Leveling to play tracks at a more even volume.  This is set in MC > Player > DSP Studio > Volume Leveling.

Takedown Notice for unauthorized content.
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The Computer Audiophile

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2018, 09:37:17 pm »

Very cool. Checking it out now.
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swiv3d

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2018, 09:09:13 pm »

I'm loving listening to some of these playlists. Might cost me a fortune in CD purchases as a result though!
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swiv3d

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2018, 06:23:51 am »

Streaming jriver radio to  a renderer fails on my machine bob explained this as being the result of the jazz stream being .ape files
So we tested that here and it works playing to an Id (because it can play anything).

For other renderers, you will need to have something that supports whatever lossless file types the radio is sending.

Most of the streams now are .ape. Probably only MC and Volumio would be able to play those.
I tried jriver radio's classical section and these behaved exactly like the ape files in the jazz section ........but these are flac files, so they should have played correctly. Also I can stream flac files to my tv as an mp3 stream via an associated dlna server from radio paradise, but this doesn't happen with the jriver radio stream. Doesn't matter much to me but some users might be put off.
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JimH

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2018, 06:37:24 am »

Split Streaming vs. Local Files
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JimH

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2018, 04:41:31 pm »

24.0.40, just posted, fixes the problem with cover art.  It should be displayed in MC and in Panel now.
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steveyb58

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2018, 03:53:35 pm »

The concept is great, but I still cannot get it to work.  After clicking on any of the stations, a box shows up asking if I want to play the files and a few other check boxes.  When I request the files play, nothing happens after the box goes away. 
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JimH

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2018, 04:33:32 pm »

What version of MC do you have?   MC 24 recent is required.

Are you opening it from MC?  Just using a browser won't work.
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Greg6510

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2018, 09:08:12 pm »

I cant get this to work either.  It seems to time out. 
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Greg6510

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2018, 09:16:06 pm »

Needed to update to 24.0.40 to work. 
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steveyb58

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2018, 11:40:42 am »

I have 24 and attempt to open directly from the streaming menu.  It doesn't work for me.
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steveyb58

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2018, 12:04:43 pm »

24.0.40 is not available to me yet but the music channels are present.
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steveyb58

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2018, 12:09:00 pm »

I just now found the playlist manually by choosing it after the download by clicking on player.  Thought this would be automatic but not so.
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steveyb58

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2018, 12:22:18 pm »

Ok.  I can get playlists but they are not playing. 
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JimH

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2018, 12:27:28 pm »

24.0.40 is here:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,116531.0.html

Make sure you're using MC to find Radio JRiver, not just doing it from a browser.
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steveyb58

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2018, 01:42:05 pm »

Clicking onstreaming and then choose Radio J River.  I am curious if this is related to streaming outside my home network which I used to be able to do with JRemote but can't for an unknown reason anymore. 
Port 52199 will not open even if permissions are enabled in the router with outside IP.  I am guessing it is related.  Using Norton Security Suite but still can't connect when I turn it off.  Anyone?
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steveyb58

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2018, 01:59:17 pm »

Thanks for link to 24.0.40.  That did it.  It's now playing great! :)
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UncleMilt

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2018, 03:15:46 pm »


I tried the "Rock" station and platform works well.  Fidelity and sound stage are great (16/44.1 - ape) and plays well at only 8 Mbps down.  Navigation among tracks and response also favorable. Very nice indeed.
Only 5 albums shuffled in first 90+ tracks in queue, but I am confident this will improve!!!
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JimH

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2018, 06:41:49 pm »

To all those who've sent a little money our way this week ... Thank You!  We appreciate your encouragement.
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steveyb58

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2018, 03:07:06 pm »

Lossless streaming rate seems low for FLAC.  Some down in the 300-400 kbps range.  Were these originally lossless files? 
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2018, 03:08:47 pm »

Lossless streaming rate seems low for FLAC.  Some down in the 300-400 kbps range.  Were these originally lossless files? 

Yes, files uploaded are lossless. Which station are you listening to? Classical by chance? Depending on the composition (e.g. solo piano performances), how much compression is used and how well it's compressed it's possible to get bitrates that low in lossless files. You shouldn't use bitrates as an indicator for audio quality.

EDIT: This thread may help explain it, pay attention to RD James' posts especially... https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=114123.0
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I don't work for JRiver... I help keep the forums safe from Viagra and other sources of sketchy pharmaceuticals.

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swiv3d

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2018, 03:19:07 pm »

Lossless streaming rate seems low for FLAC.  Some down in the 300-400 kbps range.  Were these originally lossless files?
flac files can be compressed to smaller sizes without any loss ... it depends on the settings in your flac encoder.
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hoyt

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2018, 02:15:42 pm »

Jim - Could you explain more about the Upload to Cloud process? 

That sounds like I can take some of my library, put it in a playlist, upload it to the cloud, then playback somehow on a mobile device (Panel).  Am I interpreting that correctly?  That seems really cool.  I often stream from my home server, but would love to turn it off or have another method when my connection is off to get to at least some of my music. 

Is that the Upload to Doctor Who option?  I've not used Doctor Who much before, but wasn't clear on how this part works.  Thanks!

EDIT: I see in your other post about help programming Radio JRiver, that I should be able to right click a playlist and pick Upload to Cloud.  I don't see that option when I right click on a playlist though (using 24.0.40). 
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JimH

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2018, 03:32:42 pm »

Make sure you have a Dr. Who account and are logged into it.
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swiv3d

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2018, 05:00:25 pm »

Just a thought JimH, but wouldn't it make sense for people to upload albums of music and the radio JRiver site to use something like a random smartlist to select 50 files to any user who logs into the station, rather then using playlists uploaded by users?
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hoyt

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2018, 06:24:51 pm »

Make sure you have a Dr. Who account and are logged into it.

I did that and to make sure, just went back to re-login.  I'm not seeing the option to Upload to Cloud.  It should be a right-click option on the playlist? 

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JimH

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2018, 01:53:47 am »

Just a thought JimH, but wouldn't it make sense for people to upload albums of music and the radio JRiver site to use something like a random smartlist to select 50 files to any user who logs into the station, rather then using playlists uploaded by users?
We could do that, even use Play Doctor for selecting, but right now, we're using curated playlists.
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JimH

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2018, 04:07:47 am »

Jim - Could you explain more about the Upload to Cloud process? 

That sounds like I can take some of my library, put it in a playlist, upload it to the cloud, then playback somehow on a mobile device (Panel).  Am I interpreting that correctly?  That seems really cool.  I often stream from my home server, but would love to turn it off or have another method when my connection is off to get to at least some of my music. 
Close.  Right now, we're focused on building Radio JRiver stations.  Later, we may allow you to stream your own playlists.  Doctor Who has something like that now.

We're also working on getting Panel to support Radio JRiver and Radio Paradise.  Right now, I'm using Panel on a PixelBook (ChromeOS) notebook to connect to a Windows notebook running MC.  I use Panel to connect to the Windows machine, choose a Radio JRiver station, and play it to an IdPi.  It's working well.

This gives us access and control via Panel on any device that runs a modern browser.
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hoyt

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2018, 09:54:30 am »

Close.  Right now, we're focused on building Radio JRiver stations.  Later, we may allow you to stream your own playlists.  Doctor Who has something like that now.

We're also working on getting Panel to support Radio JRiver and Radio Paradise.  Right now, I'm using Panel on a PixelBook (ChromeOS) notebook to connect to a Windows notebook running MC.  I use Panel to connect to the Windows machine, choose a Radio JRiver station, and play it to an IdPi.  It's working well.

This gives us access and control via Panel on any device that runs a modern browser.

Gotcha.  So I've signed into your Outside Id, and can play the Radio JRiver stations.  That's pretty snazzy.  I guess in this instance, I'm still streaming "your" music, not mine?  You say Doctor Who has something like that now, but in order to see that I have to be connected to my MC server, right?  For example, I open up JRemote on my server and I see my Doctor Who playlists.  If I play them, it streams through my server.  If I connect JRemote to your Id, I obviously don't see my Doctor Who lists.
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Goatshade

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2018, 11:46:54 pm »

So, let me see if I understand: This is a collection of radio stations hosted on AWS featuring lossless content, expanded by user content uploads?

If so, how is music categorised? Automatically via [Genre] tags? By someone who administers the stations?

I only ask because you could call both The Rolling Stones and Altar of Plagues "Rock" in the basest sense but listeners of either are not likely to care at all for the other. :P

So how does this work?
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JimH

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2018, 01:43:22 am »

At this time, its public face is a small number of radio stations, curated by JRiver, assisted by JRiver users.

You can also use the links you receive to play any playlists you upload.

At some time in the future, we may expand the definition.  If or when we do that, we might be able to use Play Doctor logic, so that skipping certain tracks would be noted in order to improve the experience.

Another possibility would be to match users with similar taste.
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JimH

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2018, 02:53:42 am »

Gotcha.  So I've signed into your Outside Id, and can play the Radio JRiver stations.  That's pretty snazzy.  I guess in this instance, I'm still streaming "your" music, not mine?  You say Doctor Who has something like that now, but in order to see that I have to be connected to my MC server, right?  For example, I open up JRemote on my server and I see my Doctor Who playlists.  If I play them, it streams through my server.  If I connect JRemote to your Id, I obviously don't see my Doctor Who lists.
You could use Panel (or another remote) to connect to your server.  You would then see your playlists.  I don't think the Doctor Who playlists are exposed, but you could try it.  Doctor Who is just an example of how an interface might work.
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Badotz

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #32 on: July 09, 2018, 07:07:38 pm »

I haven't used the capabilities of MC nearly enough - what a product!

My gripe is not with MC per se, but with the content of the Classical radio - there is little (if any) music written before 1850 available. I listen to music composed during the late 19th, the 20th and 21st centuries - what used to be classified as "avant-garde". Berg, Webern, Cage - music to my ears!

Perhaps a subsection for those of us who are old but listen to new music that isn't popular, at least not popular with many people I know? If not, no big deal - I'll continue to listen to my library.

Thanks again for making such an excellent product. I'm in negotiations with my accountant re: a small donation.

Badotz

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delias

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #33 on: July 09, 2018, 08:37:32 pm »

I'd like to interact fully with the new Radio JRiver. I seem to have only a partial implementation working on my 24.0.41 (64-bit). Here's what I see on my setup:

The Streaming section shows the Radio JRiver button on the right main panel but not on the expanded list on the left side, maybe that's expected.  When I click the Radio JRiver button in the browser section, I see the 5 stations you have at this time, the last one being "1 - Singles". When I choose the station it does start streaming lossless which is great.

However my Playlists right-click does not include the Upload to Cloud option written about on this forum.  I do see the Upload Playlist to Dr. Who option (which I am logged into after creating that account just today) but no choices about uploading to the Cloud.

In addition I find no way to identify any of the playlists in the Cloud for radio that currently exist from others. I can only play the stations you have.

I have setup the Media Server on the same Win7 X64 Pro laptop and have used the Internet perfectly fine for streaming my own library to JRemote on my iPhone.

I also can stream the stations from JRiver Panel (Firefox) but it only shows me 4 of the 5 stations the MC shows me, station "1 - Singles" is missing from Panel. Again I see no way to access Playlists uploaded by others. Maybe I'm missing the point of what's intended here.

One minor other discovery was the easiest way to access all the songs in the station was to right click on the button, choose Properties, copy the URL, then File -> Open URL... in MC and it expanded the multiplaylists so I see 336 songs in "1 - Singles" and just saved them as a playlist to get back easier next time.

Thanks for any clarifications.
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Bonzip

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #34 on: July 10, 2018, 12:12:26 am »

I installed MediaCenter24004-x64 and looked for the Radio JRiver when I got the latest news email. The Radio JRiver is not even in my streaming menu and I can not find it anywhere else. I then updated to MediaCenter240041-x64 and it is still not in the menu at all.  :( because I can not try it out.
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swiv3d

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #35 on: July 10, 2018, 12:20:00 am »

@bonzip   
If you select streaming - Radio JRiver should be the very last station in the display window - for some reason unknown to me, it doesn't appear in the expanded streaming menu.
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JimH

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #36 on: July 10, 2018, 01:04:04 am »

Playlist upload is limited to the beta team at this time.  It will be more widely available in about a week.

There are a few Rock playlists in this thread:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,116601.0.html

They should be the same as the playlists included in Singles.  Singles will be available in Panel in a day or two.

The stations will continue to change as we add new playlists.  The playlists are delivered in a different order each time you play, but the tracks within them are always in the same sequence.

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delias

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #37 on: July 10, 2018, 02:08:39 pm »

OK thanks for the clarifications. I was also able to stream the Radio Singles playlist from Internet to my MC server setup then to my iPhone JRemote via WiFi at home (Internet/Cell Data works too when I'm away) and from there Bluetooth to a small speaker.  Quite a wireless chain but it sounded very very good in the room.
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JimH

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #38 on: July 10, 2018, 02:28:05 pm »

Great.  Thanks for the report.
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Screwdriver

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #39 on: July 10, 2018, 05:24:44 pm »

This works pretty well.....

Thanks!
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dtc

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #40 on: July 10, 2018, 09:00:22 pm »

The stations will continue to change as we add new playlists.  The playlists are delivered in a different order each time you play, but the tracks within them are always in the same sequence.

If you turn Shuffle on, then the order of the tracks in each playlist may change. At least they did when there was just one playlist.  Not sure what this does to the Classical station, assuming there are multiple movements to most pieces.  Maybe those need to be linked to work correctly with Shuffle on - not sure.
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thezone

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #41 on: July 20, 2018, 09:04:28 pm »

Sounds great! Is there  away to access Radio JRiver in theater view?

Also any plans to stream 5.1? Blue man group have got some killer 5.1 files to test out your hi-fi!
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JimH

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #42 on: July 21, 2018, 12:27:19 am »

Not in Theater View at this time.  Panel will work.

No 5.1 for now.  It's possible.
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Bow

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #43 on: August 04, 2018, 12:48:59 pm »

Wow worked first time,, THX
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swiv3d

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #44 on: August 04, 2018, 07:02:23 pm »

Any news of developments in JRiver Radio? Can I have my upload cap increased?
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JimH

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #45 on: August 05, 2018, 03:10:34 am »

John's on vacation this week, so it will need to wait until he's back.
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swiv3d

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #46 on: August 05, 2018, 08:12:53 am »

Ok, thanks JimH
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vavan

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #47 on: August 08, 2018, 03:05:52 am »

managed to send radio paradise to avr pioneer sc-2022 via dlna - https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,115480.msg809057.html#msg809057 but it doesn't work with radio jriver
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mourip

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #48 on: August 13, 2018, 02:42:34 pm »

Is there a way to initiate a stream or switch to JRiver Streaming using JRemote?
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ddapriori

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Re: NEW: Radio JRiver -- Lossless Streaming
« Reply #49 on: August 13, 2018, 07:59:19 pm »

I just installed MC 24.045(64bit).  Under "Streaming I find there is no JRiver option.  What is this about?
Radio paradise is there along with lots of other selections.  Thanks.
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