Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Ziba]

Hi,

I asked this question in the network sub-forum, but thought I'd ask it here since I haven't gotten an answer.

My question: Using the main/server computer, is it possible to control/push the playback to a client computer?

Currently, I can easily do the opposite, that is, using the client computer I can easily control where playback occurs, either in "Player" (client computer) or "There" (main/server computer). However, using the main/server computer, I only have "Player"  as a playback location, which corresponds here to the main/server computer.

Thanks.

[JimH]

The wiki explains how Media Network works.
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Media_Network

Also read the topic on Remotes.

I believe what you want can be done by using Tremote to connect from your current server to any client, and then control it.  Your client is then also acting as a server.

[Ziba]

Thanks for your help. I had already read the Media Networks wiki more than once. I'm reading through the Remotes wiki and sub-forums, but I still can't figure out if and how this can be done. Any additional information would be appreciated.

[dtc]

I believe what you want can be done by using Tremote to connect from your current server to any client, and then control it.  Your client is then also acting as a server.

To make that work the original client would have to have a full library with all the music in it. That could be done by building a library of the existing server media files over the network or by copying all the files to the client.  In either case you have an additional library to manage and update.

[JimH]

If you have two machines, either or both can be both server and client.

I do this all the time, among a number of machines.

If Media Network is turned on, the server can play to a client by clicking on it in the upper part of Playing Now.

The Media Network topic explains this. 

[dtc]

What library do you expect the original client to use when it is now acting as a server? How to you get it to see the media files in the main library?

[JimH]

Would you try it?

Terms get easily confused.

The client becomes a Renderer that the original server can play to.  That server is using its own library but playing it to the Renderer.

[dtc]

So, I have the main system, lets call it A. Then the client is, say a Netbook with an empty library lets call it B.

If I make A the client connected to B as the server, what library am I going to see?  Are you saying that the client (A) will see the library on A?

I mix clients and servers all the time, but the library I see on the client is always the library on the server.

[JimH]

A= Server / Main
B= Client


Do you have Media Network turned on on the client?  If so, you can play to it from any other machine on the network.

On A, you should see B under Playing Now (upper section).  Click on it, then everything you play will be sent to it.

[dtc]

What library will the person logged into A see?  I think the empty library on B.

[dtc]

OK - let me try once more. The terminology always gets in the way.

Here is what I see.

PC
Netbook  (for historical purposes)

If the Netbook is a client connected to the PC acting as a server, then selecting a track on the PC and selecting the Netbook as the Output in Playing now, then the track plays for 5 seconds and stops. No audio is heard on the Netbook.

If you connect the PC as a client to the Netbook acting as a server, then the PC sees the library of the Netbook, but that is different from the library on the PC (and probably empty). So, although you can select the output on the PC to go to the Netbook, the library that the PC sees is the library of the Netbook.

If you disconnect the client server relationship, so both systems are stand alone systems, then you can play from the PC and have the audio come out of the Netbook by selecting the Netbook as the output in playing now on the PC.

So, I do not see how you can have the Netbook connected as a client to the PC and typing on the PC, play a track to the Netbook.  You can play from the PC to the Netbook if there is no client/server connection.

Hope that is it.

[JimH]

What library will the person logged into A see?  I think the empty library on B.

No.

Make sure you have Media Network turned on on both sides, and all 3 parts of it.

[JimH]

If you connect the PC as a client to the Netbook acting as a server, then the PC sees the library of the Netbook, but that is different from ...

On your server, you don't need to connect to anything.  The client will be there under Playing Now.

[dtc]

On your server, you don't need to connect to anything.  The client will be there under Playing Now.

That is exactly what my analysis showed.

If the OP wants the client connected, he cannot do what he wants. That was my point of that analysis.

You seemed to suggest using TRemote to solve this problem. That does not work to do what he wants.  That is what I was responding to.  Sorry if I misunderstood.

[dtc]

No.

Make sure you have Media Network turned on on both sides, and all 3 parts of it.

If the PC is acting as a client to the Netbook acting as a server, then the PC will see the Netbook library, which is probably empty or at least is not equivalent to that on the PC.  That goes back to my original point. If you use the PC as a client to the Netbook as a server, then the library on the Netbook needs to be equivalent to that on the PC or the system will not function as desired.

[terrym@tassie]

@dtc it works for me, please see attached screenshots showing me pushing a track from my audio server to a netbook client that is connected to the server library.

The thing to note is that the client is simply acting as a DLNA renderer with the server as a DLNA controller.

[Ziba]

Yes, it's now working!

Basically, as mentioned, the problem was that when using the client computer (computer B), I had both options of playing to the "Player" (ie, locally on client computer/computer B) and "There" (ie, main/server computer/computer A), whereas when using the main/server computer/computer A, I only had the option of playing to the "Player" (ie, locally on the main/server/computer A) - there was no "There" option to push playback to the client computer/computer B.

To add the "There" playback option to the main/server computer/computer A - thus enabling the main/server computer/computer A to push playback to the client computer/computer B - I had to activate the Media Network on the client computer/computer B (a second Media Network). The result is that both computers can now access the main/server library in computer A and decide on which computer - A or B - playback will occur. The same can happen to another library hosted on computer B - it can get accessed by both computers and playback can be pushed to either computers - GENIUS!

Sorry if my explanation created additional confusion, I agree that finding the proper terminology can be a challenge.

Many thanks to both of you 

[mattkhan]

I think the key point is that you need this option checked

(and conversely if you want to remove those from view then you need to uncheck that option)

[dtc]

Glad you guys got it working. It still does not work for me. I have Media Network turned on on both systems and have all the DLNA options checked on both systems. I can use either system as a client to the other system. And, I can direct output to the other machine when Tremote is not running. So, all of that is working fine.

However, if I use Tremote to connect one system to the other, if I am playing on the server and select output to go to the client, the timer runs for 5 seconds and stops.  Not sure why that is different on my systems from yours.

Anyway, no need to pursue this since it is not a configuration I run.

Again, glad you got it working.

[JimH]

dtc,
Don't connect with Tremote.  Just click on the renderer in Playing Now.  Then play from your current library.

[dtc]

dtc,
Don't connect with Tremote.  Just click on the renderer in Playing Now.  Then play from your current library.

Obviously that works, as I said, but please read the last few posts.  They are using Tremote and playing from the server to the client. That seems to be what the OP wants to do. It saves having to disconnect the client from the server if you want to push from the server to the client.

[JimH]

It saves having to disconnect the client from the server if you want to push from the server to the client.

You don't have to disconnect anything.   Both machines can handle whatever you need to do.

[dtc]

You don't have to disconnect anything.   Both machines can handle whatever you need to do.

The OP has a solution that works for him. I am out.

[markf2748]

FWIW, I have the same experience as dtc and the OP's first post:

I can have either of two Windows PCs on the network act as an MC server, and the non-server (client) pulls down music from the server.  However the MC server does not see the other computer (client) as a DLNA renderer in the upper part of Playing Now, so I cannot push music to it.  At the same time, the servers see my two chromecast audio devices as valid DLNA renderers, thanks to BubbleUPnP Server, and can play to them by selecting under Playing Now.

On the server PC the "other" (client) computer shows up in Windows Explorer > Network as a Media Device (Generic DLNA) and also under Other Devices (Library Server), but it does not appear under the MC server's Playing Now.

Similarly, my Android players (JRemote2, MC Panel, and MO 4Media) never show PC MC clients as available renderers.

I never noticed this before, because I am always playing locally on the server, or the client pulls from the server or plays from its local library, or else push to the chromecasts (Note:  aside from this test, I normally allow only one MC server on the network, just to avoid confusion).

[JimH]

Make sure that Media Network (all 3 parts of DLNA) is turned on on the client.

[markf2748]

To add the "There" playback option to the main/server computer/computer A - thus enabling the main/server computer/computer A to push playback to the client computer/computer B - I had to activate the Media Network on the client computer/computer B (a second Media Network).

Can you explain exactly what you did here to "activate the Media Network"?

Make sure that Media Network (all 3 parts of DLNA) is turned on on the client.

All three DLNA option boxes are checked in Options > Media Network > Advanced on both client and server.  It's been like that for a long time.

I ran Whitebear's DMRA on the MC Server PC.  DMRA finds the client's MC DLNA renderer and renderer passes all FLAC audio tests.  Yet this MC client DLNA renderer never shows up in the MC Server's Playing Now list upper part, so of course MC cannot play to it.  Seems to me this test eliminates any WiFi network / firewall pitfalls, and points to some discovery issue or setting within MC.

JRiver MC 29.0.74  Windows 10/11 (64-bit)

[JimH]

A firewall or antivirus program might allow one program and not another.

[Ziba]

Can you explain exactly what you did here to "activate the Media Network"?

Seems like you've activated the first Media Network on your server PC and your client PC can access its library under "Playing Now" just fine, which is how I was initially set up too. What I had to do is activate a second Media Server on the client PC. This generates a different "access key" that you will use on your server PC to connect to the client PC's library under "Playing Now". At that point, any library (server's or client's) can be pulled from the server PC or client PC and can either be played locally or pushed to be played on the other PC.

By "activate the Media Network", I'm referring to the top checkbox "Use Media Network to share this library and enable DLNA" in Mattkhan's post above (Tools > Options > Media Network > Top checkbox).

Hope this helps.

[markf2748]

Seems like you've activated the first Media Network on your server PC and your client PC can access its library under "Playing Now" just fine, which is how I was initially set up too. What I had to do is activate a second Media Server on the client PC. This generates a different "access key" that you will use on your server PC to connect to the client PC's library under "Playing Now". At that point, any library (server's or client's) can be pulled from the server PC or client PC and can either be played locally or pushed to be played on the other PC.

By "activate the Media Network", I'm referring to the top checkbox "Use Media Network to share this library and enable DLNA" in Mattkhan's post above (Tools > Options > Media Network > Top checkbox).

Thanks for the clarification.  I set up the original client PC to be a server as you suggest.  Now either computer can be client or server.  Pulling from the server to client works for both combinations, but I still cannot push from either server to the respective client.  The PC clients just never show up under the server's Playing Now upper part.  The result is to add a bunch more instances of DLNA Chromecasts to the network, but still no PC DLNA renderers detected by the MC servers.

[dtc]

Seems like you've activated the first Media Network on your server PC and your client PC can access its library under "Playing Now" just fine, which is how I was initially set up too. What I had to do is activate a second Media Server on the client PC. This generates a different "access key" that you will use on your server PC to connect to the client PC's library under "Playing Now". At that point, any library (server's or client's) can be pulled from the server PC or client PC and can either be played locally or pushed to be played on the other PC.

By "activate the Media Network", I'm referring to the top checkbox "Use Media Network to share this library and enable DLNA" in Mattkhan's post above (Tools > Options > Media Network > Top checkbox).

Hope this helps.

Seems like that only works if both systems have identical libraries.  Once the server is accessing the library on the client, how do you see the server library on the server?  Or do you identical libraries on both systems?

[JimH]

Seems like that only works if both systems have identical libraries.

No, no, no!  Please re-read my posts.  Forget what I said about Tremote.

There's a faint chance you've found a corner case that exposes a bug.  You have no files in your client library.  Try adding a file or two.  That library never gets loaded but it's possible something unexpected happens.

The client is only a renderer.

[dtc]

No, no, no!  Please re-read my posts.  Forget what I said about Tremote.

There's a faint chance you've found a corner case that exposes a bug.  You have no files in your client library.  Try adding a file or two.  That library never gets loaded but it's possible something unexpected happens.

The client is only a renderer.

Jim, please read the posts carefully.

Just above

"What I had to do is activate a second Media Server on the client PC. This generates a different "access key" that you will use on your server PC to connect to the client PC's library under "Playing Now". "

Just what do you think that means?

And, once he does that, how does he see the server library on his server. He is connected to the client library.

[dtc]

  You have no files in your client library.  Try adding a file or two.  That library never gets loaded but it's possible something unexpected happens.

The point I am trying to make is that most people's clients, if they are strictly clients, probably have either an empty library or only one with a modest number of entries. Very few people keep a full library on their client if it is mostly used as a client.

The OP says he is connecting from his Server to his Client using Tremote. If he does that what he sees on the Server is the library from the Client.  At that point he cannot access the tracks in his server library.

[dtc]

No, no, no!  Please re-read my posts.  Forget what I said about Tremote.

There's a faint chance you've found a corner case that exposes a bug.  You have no files in your client library.  Try adding a file or two.  That library never gets loaded but it's possible something unexpected happens.

The client is only a renderer.

Let's take a step back.

You are describing a situation where TRemote is not used and you simply use DLNA to access another system. I fully understand that.

However, if I understand it correctly, that is NOT the situation the OP is describing. He is using TRemote and, in fact, in his last post he is using it in both directions simultaneous - A Tremoted  to B and B TRemoted  to A.

My latest comment was to the OP's configuration, not yours.

I really do understand Tremote and what libraries are seen when using it. That goes back to your kitchen.

So, let's deal with your solution and the OP's configuraion separately.

[mwillems]

"What I had to do is activate a second Media Server on the client PC. This generates a different "access key" that you will use on your server PC to connect to the client PC's library under "Playing Now". "

Just what do you think that means?

And, once he does that, how does he see the server library on his server. He is connected to the client library.

So just to add something that I found a little counterintuitive about how media network works that may be causing some of the confusion here:  I can confirm that if I connect a PC with an empty local library as a client to a server, and then enable media network on the client, I receive a separate access key for the client.  But, if I enter the client's access key into a remote or navigate to it using panel, I don't see the client's empty local library, I see the server's library as shared with the client.  That is to say whether I use the server's access key or the client's access key I see the same library as long as the client is connected to the server, but I see different local playback devices obviously.  It's a little counterintuitive (to me) that the client effectively "re-serves" the server's library rather than it's own local library, but that's definitely how it works and that behavior has some advantages. 

So if OP is using his client's access key to connect from his server and use tremote, while the client is still logged into the server's library, it's possible he's effectively double mirroring the library (i.e. the client is still using a copy of the server's native library, and re-serving it back to the server).  Something like that might superficially look like it works, but I would expect it to break down the next time the server restarts (or maybe not?) and is much more complicated than using the client as a DLNA renderer. 

[markf2748]

I am too new to this game to know anything about TRemote, and nothing described above works for me since I never see any MC PC DLNA clients in the upper part of server's Playing Now no matter what I try.  However MC's Panel (browser interface) seems to work nicely to solve OP's basic problem:

1) Client: Tools > Options > Media Network > [X] Use media network to share this library and enable DLNA.  I currently have the three Advanced > DLNA boxes unchecked.
2) Client: Playing Now bottom section, load the server's library.
3) Server PC: open MC's Panel interface in a browser window and connect to the Client PC.

The server's Panel plays the server's library on the client after choosing Panel Settings > Play to > There.

Panel logged into the client from a browser on an Android phone does the same (select "Player").  JRemote2 and MO 4Media connected to the client also do it.  If the three additional DLNA boxes are checked on the client, then I see more renderers to choose from on the network.

I find the Panels and Android apps play whatever library is loaded in the client, whether that be the server's library or a local library of the client.  When I switch libraries on the client, for example from server to local, the Panels and Android apps track the change seamlessly.

Perhaps there are disadvantages to this approach relative to a true direct "push" from within MC on the server, such as lack of DSP effects controlled in real time from the server?  However it's not clear to me that anything proposed above does any better.

[updated 7/22/2022]

[dtc]

So just to add something that I found a little counterintuitive about how media network works that may be causing some of the confusion here:  I can confirm that if I connect a PC with an empty local library as a client to a server, and then enable media network on the client, I receive a separate access key for the client.  But, if I enter the client's access key into a remote or navigate to it using panel, I don't see the client's empty local library, I see the server's library as shared with the client.  That is to say whether I use the server's access key or the client's access key I see the same library as long as the client is connected to the server, but I see different local playback devices obviously.  It's a little counterintuitive (to me) that the client effectively "re-serves" the server's library rather than it's own local library, but that's definitely how it works and that behavior has some advantages. 

So if OP is using his client's access key to connect from his server and use tremote, while the client is still logged into the server's library, it's possible he's effectively double mirroring the library (i.e. the client is still using a copy of the server's native library, and re-serving it back to the server).  Something like that might superficially look like it works, but I would expect it to break down the next time the server restarts (or maybe not?) and is much more complicated than using the client as a DLNA renderer.

Interesting,  it seems like the client may actually be sharing the shared library from the server rather that its local library. I will test that. Not what I would expect, but I can see how it is happening.  I have been away and not had a chance to try it yet.

[markf2748]

I can confirm that if I connect a PC with an empty local library as a client to a server, and then enable media network on the client, I receive a separate access key for the client.  But, if I enter the client's access key into a remote or navigate to it using panel, I don't see the client's empty local library, I see the server's library as shared with the client.

Does the same thing happen for you if the local library is not empty, for example if it contains a single album?  I saw some weirdness with a new empty client-local library, so I created a client test library with a single artist and 5 albums in it.  The latter was well-behaved, as described above.

[Ziba]

I just wanted to add two data points.

1 - I added a third PC to my configuration. I activated its Media Network and the other two PC can now retrieve its library (1 album, so not empty). Now, all three PC's can pull from any of the three shared libraries and can push playback on any PC as well.

2 - I use the Gizmo app on my phone to connect the main shared library. I can also push playback on any of the three PC's or my phone, which gives me tremendous flexibility.

I'm not really qualified to explain how this works, I'm simply happy to report that it does.

[dtc]

Let me go back to the system names Netbook and Server. If find it too easy to get lost in the A and B thing.

I can confirm that if I connect client Netbook to server Server using Tremote and then also connect Sever to Netbook using Tremote, then both systems see the library from Server.  It looks like Server picks up the active library  on Netbook (the one being served from Server) on Netbook rather than the local library on Netbook.  If the "Play Local File That Matches Library Sever File Is Found" is set, Sever should play the file from its local files, so the file does not have to go out to A and back.

This is an unorthodox system but works as Ziba described.

It may be a way to help force a system to see the other system as a renderer when it is not normally seeing it. In general, I would not do the second Tremote connection, but it may help in this case.

Interesting discussion.

[markf2748]

This is an unorthodox system but works as Ziba described.
.
.
It may be a way to help force a system to see the other system as a renderer when it is not normally seeing it. In general, I would not do the second Tremote connection, but it may help in this case.

I am intrigued by this statement.  First, can you please clarify exactly what is meant by "Tremote connection"?

If I go by the Wiki definition:
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Tremote
then it sounds the same as what the OP is doing, but he is applying it in both directions.  In that case, "Tremote" is just shorthand notation for a multi-step operation by the user.

When I try that, I still do not see any of the MC PCs (server or client) in the upper part of Playing Now (the added libraries do appear in lower part of Playing Now).  Do I need to pull out the big guns (i.e. Wireshark) to see what is going on under the hood in my setup?

In any case, to me, this discussion begs (actually screams) the question:  why is explicit "Tremote"-like activity by the user needed at all?  If an MC client has activated Media Network and checked the Advanced > DLNA renderer box (never mind all three DLNA boxes), then I would expect that client to be automatically discoverable as a standard DLNA renderer that can be pushed to from any DLNA server on the network.  After all, isn't that how non-MC DLNA renderers behave with respect to an MC server?

[dtc]

By Tremote Connection I simply mean choosing the library to use from Playing From under Playing Now - the bottom part of Playing Now.

Some history. Tremote is just the predecessor to what is usually called Client-Server today. It stands for Terminal Remote and was introduced when Netbooks were introduced as a way to use a server library on a small client, so that you do not have to maintain the library on multiple systems, especially small systems like Netbooks.  It downloads a temporary version of the service library onto the client and also allows you to play either on the client or the server.  Over time, some options other than playback were added, like the ability to edit tags on the client.  You do not have to use Tremote to be able to see and use DLNA renderers.

Some people, like you, have trouble seeing networked systems using DLNA under Playing Now. This is normally a problem with Firewall settings but can be somewhat hard to find.  In the past, some WiFI modems even had internal limitations that stopped MC from discovering other systems, although I think that is rare today.

My conjecture was that using Tremote may help in some cases where MC was not discovering other systems. Zipa's observation seem to indicate it helped him, but I have not really investigated it in detail.

When DLNA renderers do not appear in Playing Now, setting up Windows Firewall to allow a problem through is the first thing to check. You need to do that for each major version of MC and on each system.   If you have a hardware firewall, you should check that also. Sometimes the firewall settings solve the problem, sometimes it does not.

I cannot play from W10 to my W7 system, even though I can load the W7 library onto the W10 systems using Playing From (TRemote), but I never need to force output to that system, so have not pursued it beyond the obvious firewall checks.  The W7 renderers do not appear on W10 Playing Now.

At one pont, I have problems between W10 Pro and W10 Home, but I have not seen that recently.

Hope some of that helps.

[JimH]

By Tremote Connection I simply mean choosing the library to use from Playing From under Playing Now - the bottom part of Playing Now.

Some history. Tremote is just the predecessor to what is usually called Client-Server today. It stands for Terminal Remote and was introduced when Netbooks were introduced as a way to use a server library on a small client, so that you do not have to maintain the library on multiple systems, especially small systems like Netbooks.  It downloads a temporary version of the service library onto the client and also allows you to play either on the client or the server.  Over time, some options other than playback were added, like the ability to edit tags on the client.  You do not have to use Tremote to be able to see and use DLNA renderers.

Tremote is JRiver's "neT Remote", using Media Network's Library Server to access the library of another copy of MC running on another machine.  Once you've loaded the remote library, you can play on either machine.

The idea of client/server is much older.

MC can be either client or server.

[markf2748]

@dtc and @JimH:  Thanks for your detailed quick-response clarifications, which definitely blow away a lot of the smoke (but unfortunately don't solve my problem).  This topic apparently has a very long history.

My server is Win11, the two PC clients are Win10 Pro and Win10 Home (all 64-bit).  So I tried all the same Tremote stuff between the two Win10 clients, turning them into servers as well, in case there was a Win10/11 OS issue involved.  I observed exactly the same behavior between all PCs as previously described:  any machine can load another's library and play from it, but none of the computers show up in the upper part of Playing Now, so MC servers cannot "push" to MC DLNA PCs in my setup (again, Chromecast renderers work fine as DLNA targets with BubbleUPnP Server).

One strange thing: with three DLNA boxes checked on all PCs, the lower part of Playing Now shows two entries for each client PC, for example "client1" and "client1 (Generic DLNA)".  Perhaps the latter should be in the Playing Now upper part (??).

All three PC's indicate "TCP Port: 52199" under Media Network > Advanced, and that port is opened in my Firewall software and is also listed under the MC Services & Plug-Ins > Media Network Servers.  UDP Port 1900 is also opened in my Firewall software.

The router is a recent Netgear Nighthawk, purchased and installed about a month ago, replacing an older model.  Not the latest beast on the planet, but not that old either.  It works fine AFAICT.

I don't mean to hijack this thread.  Perhaps I should open a new topic under "Media Network" forum if I pursue the burdensome Wireshark route, but any additional input is appreciated.  At least the OP is happy.

[JimH]

SSDP needs access on port 1900.  It could be blocked on either machine or possibly by antivirus.  Opening your router shouldn't be necessary on a LAN.  It opens access from the Internet, which is probably not a good idea.

[dtc]

All three PC's indicate "TCP Port: 52199" under Media Network > Advanced, and that port is opened in my Firewall software and is also listed under the MC Services & Plug-Ins > Media Network Servers.  UDP Port 1900 is also opened in my Firewall software.

You should probably use different ports for each system, so e.g.  52199, 52198, 52197, if you want to connect to those systems from outside the LAN.  That way you can set port forwarding to the appropriate system.

[dtc]

It sounds like you are at the same point that some others have been. The obvious settings are to set the right options in Defender, including exclusions in Virus and Threats and the app settings for MC29 in Firewall as well as opening the right ports.   It is a bit of a mystery to me exactly what other settings are needed to get the renderers to appear. Whitebear is an obvious option, but it sounds like you have tried that. I have seen problems in sharing between W10 Home and W10 Pro but never really figured out what the problem was. I would try Home to Home if possible.  Sorry, I cannot help much more. It usually just works. Any detective work you can do would help.  Good luck.

[markf2748]

My server and clients have all been running latest MC 29.0.74, each incrementally updated with every latest release.

(1) Today I installed 28.0.106 side-by-side to 29 on one of the clients.  Et voila, the 28 client appears in the server's Playing Now upper part and I can play to it directly from the server!

(2) Next, I uninstalled 29.0.74 from the same client, and installed 29.0.65 from freshly downloaded installer.   Running only this version on the client:  Ditto, the 29 client appears in the server's Playing Now upper part and I can play to it directly from the server!

(3) Next, I updated the client from 29.065 to 29.0.74. Again: 29 client appears in the server's Playing Now upper part and I can play to it directly from the server!

So I suppose one could hypothesize there was something wrong with my MC 29.0.74 install on both clients.

But here is another conjecture:  In the past (multiple times) I restored both 29.0.xx clients from MC backups generated by the server (all at same version), which is often recommended as a way to transfer playlists, preferences, etc. from one PC to another.  I always followed up by changing the client access keys to give them unique network identities (the local folder structures are the same, so no changes needed there).  But nevertheless, could the restores have made the server and clients "too" identical, such that the server could not distinguish the clients from its own internal server identity, and consequently would not display them in its Playing Now upper part?  I will investigate that later - first must see if all this good news is stable.

[markf2748]

But nevertheless, could the restores have made the server and clients "too" identical, such that the server could not distinguish the clients from its own internal server identity, and consequently would not display them in its Playing Now upper part?  I will investigate that later - first must see if all this good news is stable.

Sure enough...
The updated 29.0.74 system was stable overnight, but my custom playlists, fields, and views were of course missing.
So today saved off a client backup, and then restored the client from a server backup, selecting ONLY the first option [X] Restore library and playlists.
All good - custom playlists and fields now present on the client (but not all custom tabs).  Client appears in server's Playing Now upper part, etc.

Next I restored client from same server backup, but also selected [X] Restore settings, and then followed up by resetting the client's access key.
KABOOOOOM#$%@#!.  All messed up, back to square one with client not showing up in the server's Playing Now upper part, plus a bunch of extra Chromecast audio renderers listed.  But I think it did restore one set of my default custom view tabs.

So I restored client from its own backup, then from server backup again, selecting only the first option, and leaving the new Access Key alone.  All good once more with a wonderful new level of control established (though I do not have my list of custom views available to load).

I'm not sure if all of my reasoning is correct, but definitely Lesson Learned. 

** Is this really all about a BUG in cross-computer restore of settings from backup? ** 

[dtc]

Interesting. Good detective work.

Rather than the restore process being the problem, it appears that the process may just expose some more fundamental problem. It would be good for Matt or someone to take a look. That fact the restore process gives different results seems to indicate that the problem is within MC not something in Windows, although you never know.  These types of problems are hard to track down.