Topic: MC11's poor support of AAC files (Read 4133 times)

Galley · « **on:** October 01, 2005, 10:05:39 pm »

I admit it; I'm an AAC fanboy. I won't be satisified until all of my files have been replaced with AAC files. With that being said, I have found that MC11 has poor support for AAC files. Sure, it'll play them, but that's about it. I am forced to continue to use iTunes to import my CDs since MC11 has no AAC encoder.

I then use Tag&Rename to add artwork to the files, and save an image as "Folder.jpg" in the album folder. Once they are in the MC11 library, the following problems/incompatibilities are apparent:

Custom genres are not imported, such as Adult Alternative, Boogie Rock, etc.
The album artwork does not display. These files do not show up in the "missing artwork" smart playlist. MP3s with artwork have no problem. It doesn't matter which "Track Images Location" choice I use. MC11 does not see the "Folder.jpg"image, nor does it see the image in my CD Covers folder. If I try to fetch the image from the Internet, it returns nothing. I've never been able to fetch any artwork that way; does it even work? The only thing that works is adding the image manually from a file. With 12,000 AAC files, that's a real pain.
No support for ratings stored in tags. Tag&Rename supports ratings, but MC11 does not seem them. I realize that iTunes has the same lack of support for embedded ratings.
None of my comments are imported
Updating the tags in MC11 has no effect on the actual file.
MC11 cannot detect iTunes' numbering system for multi-disc albums, so they sort improperly in the file list. MC11 has no native support for disc numbers, and cannot read the disc number tag.

Please tell me I'm not the only one having these problems.

Overall, MC11's support for the iPod is pretty good considering how often Apple likes to change the way they do things.

modelmaker · « **Reply #1 on:** October 01, 2005, 11:56:24 pm »

I believe there is some propriety issue with Apple and AAC files that prevents MC from dealing with them as it does with mp3s and other files. It is not that MC doesn't want to , but rather that it is not allowed to.

Galley · « **Reply #2 on:** October 02, 2005, 06:53:50 am »

That may be true, but why does Tag&Rename support them so well?

pank2002 · « **Reply #3 on:** October 02, 2005, 07:32:19 am »

It's freeware. I guess that has something to do with it.

Anyway, I don't like aac since it isn't very portable. However, you can encode it from within MC via iTunes' encoder with this CLI-encoder:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=35242

It might all work out if you import it with MC (assuming you use MC for everything then).

That being said, I would like better aac support too.

Alex B · « **Reply #4 on:** October 02, 2005, 08:03:49 am »

In my opinion it should be relatively easy to make an AAC decoder for unprotected AAC files. There are available alternatives to QT codec. However, since the AAC format has many variants I am not sure if a single decoder would be able to cope them all.

I guess a big problem would the DRM protection used with the tracks bought from the iTunes store. I suppose there is no way combine the Apple's DRM system with a third party codec.

pank2002 · « **Reply #5 on:** October 02, 2005, 09:01:28 am »

There's already a number of decoders available.
See: http://www.rarewares.org/aac.html
and: http://craz.net/programs/itunes/alac.html

I think you might be able to play back drm'ed files too, but I'm not certain.

JimH · « **Reply #6 on:** October 02, 2005, 10:18:08 am »

Quote from: Alex B on October 02, 2005, 08:03:49 am

In my opinion it should be relatively easy to make an AAC decoder for unprotected AAC files.

It may not be difficult, but there is a steep license fee.

ichkriegediekriese · « **Reply #7 on:** October 02, 2005, 11:12:34 am »

hi!

I also think that AAC should be implemented. I dont care about DRM though :-).
MC11 can do has so many features, but sadly AA is not one of them.

greetz

Galley · « **Reply #8 on:** October 02, 2005, 11:34:23 am »

Quote from: pank2002 on October 02, 2005, 07:32:19 am

It's freeware. I guess that has something to do with it.

Anyway, I don't like aac since it isn't very portable. However, you can encode it from within MC via iTunes' encoder with this CLI-encoder:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=35242

It might all work out if you import it with MC (assuming you use MC for everything then).

That being said, I would like better aac support too.

Thanks for the info, but I can't figure out what string to use. I've tried a few, and it either fails, or outputs nothing.

Galley · « **Reply #9 on:** November 16, 2005, 09:24:30 pm »

I'm using 11.1.158, and MC's support for images has improved greatly. I picked up the new Cat Stevens collection today, and used RealPlayer to rip it as AAC. (I'm trying to avoid iTunes these days as it is so sluggish). Once it was finished ripping, I used Tag&Rename to add the artwork into the file, and also save it as "Folder.jpg". I imported the files into MC, and it found the "Folder.jpg". Older builds never seemed to find it.

tenacious:Ðåv£™ · « **Reply #10 on:** November 18, 2005, 03:13:13 am »

Media Center 11 seems to have problems with AAC (as .m4a) files i rip in iTunes (and thanks for the link to the CL encoder now i don't even have to use iTunes anymore).

Specifically, it identifies them as requiring Audio Analysis, but doesn't seem to perform it. They get queued, but never analysed. Perhaps this has something to do with the DRM or something else not allowing the the file to be changed?

Also, if i open the DSP studio while one of my AAC files is playing, the Peak Level is always n/a.

It does, however show me a Replay Gain value for the current track, even though audio analysis was never done on the track. Perhaps it is using the value from iTunes own audio analysis?

Anyway, i haven't looked into this very much, but i'd be keen to get any thoughts on the matter.

Matt · « **Reply #11 on:** November 18, 2005, 01:00:08 pm »

Quote from: tenacious:Ðåv£™ on November 18, 2005, 03:13:13 am

Media Center 11 seems to have problems with AAC (as .m4a) files i rip in iTunes (and thanks for the link to the CL encoder now i don't even have to use iTunes anymore).

Specifically, it identifies them as requiring Audio Analysis, but doesn't seem to perform it. They get queued, but never analysed. Perhaps this has something to do with the DRM or something else not allowing the the file to be changed?

Also, if i open the DSP studio while one of my AAC files is playing, the Peak Level is always n/a.

It does, however show me a Replay Gain value for the current track, even though audio analysis was never done on the track. Perhaps it is using the value from iTunes own audio analysis?

Anyway, i haven't looked into this very much, but i'd be keen to get any thoughts on the matter.

Media Center can't decode the proprietary AAC format you're using, so it can't analyze the audio or perform DSP. Playback of these files uses the QuickTime engine instead of the JRiver engine.

We'd recommend switching to a more universal format like MP3. (or even lossless)

Galley · « **Reply #12 on:** November 18, 2005, 02:45:26 pm »

I'm sorry, but that answer is unacceptable. If you expect to draw users from iTunes, you're going to have to implement full support of .m4a AAC files. There's nearly 40 million iPods on the market, plus millions of PalmOS devices and car stereos that can play these files. I don't understand how a business could turn its back on a money-making opportunity such as that. Yes, I realize that you're having to reverse-engineer nearly everything, but if a developer such as SoftPointer (which is probably only one person) can support it, then your obviously-talented development team should be able to as well. I also realize that a licensed AAC encoder may be as much as $10 per license, but you're either going to have to "go where the money is", or offer the license separately for those of us that would like to be able to use one piece of software, rather than three.

jgreen · « **Reply #13 on:** November 18, 2005, 03:17:39 pm »

Galley, in all fairness to jriver, just recall the screaming on the forum when JimH first proposed the $20 price increase for MC11. We're all going to go along with a price increase just so the analyzer will work better on AAC?

I agree that AAC is here to stay, but short of giving away 20% of your topline revenue, I think the onus is on the plugin writers to adapt the code that's out there to MC. I mean, gee whiz, is Steve Jobs the least bit litigious? Of course a single guy can offer it free with more or less impunity, because he's got little to lose.

I think AAC is a great format, and a great opportunity for jriver. But is it really the next thing that needs doing? Plugin writers do their hard work because they see a glaring need unmet. No one's doing anything for AAC yet.

tcman41 · « **Reply #14 on:** November 18, 2005, 03:20:55 pm »

LOL, first of all we are currently dealing with revision 11 of media center perhaps 12 will be more to your liking.

OK, great add the acc encoder and then jack the price up by $10, don't think so, there may be 40 million acc users but you are not the majority by a long shot.

Personally wouldn't touch the over priced over hyped restrictive apple stuff but that's just my opinion. The acc files are smaller however sound quality can be debated till the cows come home.

TC

glynor · « **Reply #15 on:** November 18, 2005, 03:37:51 pm »

Quote from: tcman41 on November 18, 2005, 03:20:55 pm

Personally wouldn't touch the over priced over hyped restrictive apple stuff but that's just my opinion.

Here, here. (And I'm typing this on a PowerMac Dual 2.5GHz G5, which I love, so I'm definitely not an Apple-hater.) AAC has its benefits, but then so does WMA (and I'm not going to use Microsoft's proprietary stuff either to save a few pennies on hard drive space).

That said, I've got to say that it is better to support more file formats than less. Is it worth $10 extra to me? Not by a long shot (I'd rather they spent that money on a LOT of other stuff first).

edesilva · « **Reply #16 on:** November 18, 2005, 04:19:11 pm »

Color me confused. I'm thinking about MC11, since it integrates politely with Cinemar's MainLobby & MusicLobby software, but am a little worried a bit about ALAC compatibility. Right now I've got over a thousand CDs in Apple Lossless format (ripped using EAC and converted to AL in iTunes) on a RAID 5 NAS. They are meticulously all tagged with Album, Artist, Track Data, Album Art, Date of Release, etc. Will all the tag data come through in MC11? Do I understand correctly that MC11 doesn't actually play these files, but rather passes them to QT? What is the downside of that?

I've searched past threads, and the standard response seems to be "convert to something." In my case, I can't do that, because Apple Lossless is understood by other devices in my house, such as my Squeezebox 3s, and I don't feel like doing any more retagging at all...

The ability to read the Apple Lossless data is sort of a make or break for me.

jgreen · « **Reply #17 on:** November 18, 2005, 04:42:24 pm »

edesilva--
Welcome.
Speaking from a position of pure ignoramusness, I believe ALAC is FLAC with left-handed tags. I realize the tags are your concern, but doesn't the squeezebox run FLAC? (That's right, you don't want to convert anything.)

There are several format experts who post here, along with scthom, who is a FLAC expert and the author of the FLAC plugins for MC. If you hang tight with your trial of MC you may get everything you wish for, or at least you'll get more information that will help you decide.

At any rate, if you have a thousand CD's you've got a database nightmare and MC clears those right up. So I would encourage you to give it a full try.

Alex B · « **Reply #18 on:** November 18, 2005, 04:48:43 pm »

Quote from: edesilva on November 18, 2005, 04:19:11 pm

Color me confused. I'm thinking about MC11, since it integrates politely with Cinemar's MainLobby & MusicLobby software, but am a little worried a bit about ALAC compatibility. Right now I've got over a thousand CDs in Apple Lossless format (ripped using EAC and converted to AL in iTunes) on a RAID 5 NAS. They are meticulously all tagged with Album, Artist, Track Data, Album Art, Date of Release, etc. Will all the tag data come through in MC11? Do I understand correctly that MC11 doesn't actually play these files, but rather passes them to QT? What is the downside of that?

I've searched past threads, and the standard response seems to be "convert to something." In my case, I can't do that, because Apple Lossless is understood by other devices in my house, such as my Squeezebox 3s, and I don't feel like doing any more retagging at all...

The ability to read the Apple Lossless data is sort of a make or break for me.

Technically ALAC is completely separate format from AAC. It uses a different decoder. Both are packed inside MP4 containers and iTunes uses similar file tags with both formats. Since MC uses QT engine for decoding .m4a files it can read and play ALAC as well. MC cannot change physical ALAC tags but it can keep all additional information in the library.

How well MC + ALAC works with your other applications is something you should just try, I think.

JimH · « **Reply #19 on:** November 18, 2005, 06:15:07 pm »

Quote from: jgreen on November 18, 2005, 04:42:24 pm

Speaking from a position of pure ignoramusness, ...

I wish we were playing Scrabble.

Galley · « **Reply #20 on:** November 18, 2005, 07:54:28 pm »

A game of Scrabble sounds nice; I seem to have gotten some people riled up.

jgreen · « **Reply #21 on:** November 18, 2005, 07:59:14 pm »

I'm fully riled! And as for scrabble, I've got X's and Z's and I'm not afraid to uZe them!

JimH · « **Reply #22 on:** November 18, 2005, 09:54:28 pm »

Quote from: Galley on November 18, 2005, 07:54:28 pm

A game of Scrabble sounds nice; I seem to have gotten some people riled up.

A little excitement now and then is a good thing.

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Author Topic: MC11's poor support of AAC files (Read 4133 times)