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[lalittle]

I may just be missing something, I can't get the new "tag info" AW screen to show all the fields I want.  In the MC12 tag info screen, only certain fields are shown, and if a field is blank, it does not appear at all.  This makes editing tags in the AW (which is where I prefer to edit tags) much more difficult for me.

In 11.1, on the other hand, I can set tag info screen to show ALL the fields I want, INCLUDING the fields that are empty.  This makes it MUCH easier to quickly check the value of a field and see if a tag is blank since it's much easier to look for a blank field than it is to figure out if a field is "missing" completely (which requires scanning up and down the list and deciding that the field is not there at all.)  I appologize if I simply missed this setting someplace -- please let me know if this is the case.

I see that there is a "tag dump," which is useful for some things, but I want to be able to edit many of the tags that are only seem to appear in the dump (like the date.)  Since 1) the "dump" is not editable, and 2) many of the fields are not on the tag info screen, tag editing is much less user friendly than it is in MC11.  Once again, please let me know if I'm simply missing some settings someplace.

Ideally, I'll like to be able to 1) see ALL of the fields that are important to me in one window (scrolling if needed), 2) be able to EDIT these fields directly in the AW, and 3) see a blank field for a field that is empty rather than just not seeing this field at all.

MC12's approach to tag editing in the AW is much more limited than MC11.1 -- i.e. MC11.1 offers more customizable options and therefore more power in this regard.

Thanks,

Larry

[hit_ny]

Agreed with the above observations.

I think this is one area that is getting a lot of attention currently, let's see what the following week will bring.

[marko]

Tag Window Stuff:

• If I click to edit [people], place a tick in a couple of boxes, then use the <back> button in the top right corner of the AW to go back, the tag changes are discarded
• While clicking around trying to work out what's going on, I've added quite a few empty fields that only show up when the media type is image. I don't want them there. How do I now remove them?
• Comparing the tags that MC makes available, it would appear that MC is trying to be 'media specific' regarding the available tags it offers up. Am I correct in thinking that all custom fields will show up for all media types, or is the category choice now more important?
• It's quite cramped in there, don't you think? Could it perhaps expand upwards if there's space available?
• The 'Image' view does nothing but show the image. there's a 'clicky-hand' but it doesn't do anything. There are no image related tools/commands available.
• when dealing with list type fields, wasted space and ugliness spring to mind, especially when hovered over...
  
  I don't think the way the tag title and the tag contents are joined by an underline on mouse over looks right somehow.

===========
In v.11.1, I used the tag info window quite extensively. It was good to be that close to the coalface, so to speak. I kind of get the feeling here that MC12 wants to place a protective layer between me and the coalface. This might turn out to be a good thing, but right now, I'm not so sure, and I'm hoping there will still be a way to get up-close to the database fields should we feel the need.
===========

[Matt]

Thanks Marko.

The goal is to provide a tag window that's less hidden and more flexible.  A few of the advantages from our eyes:

1) list-type fields have a nice interface (instead of requiring typing in a combobox)
2) lyrics, notes, and other long fields have a more integrated editor (no popup)
3) tagging is top-level in the Action Window instead of being nested
4) more space is available for in-place editing (uses full width of window)
5) some basic information can be pooled intsead of giving every field its own line
6) fields shown / available are better filtered per media type

We'll continue to refine the tag window in the coming builds.

[jgreen]

AFAICT the new tag (formerly known as "tag info") no onger displays lyrics.  Also it seems to limit the universe of tag fields to those currently in use.  Okay, that takes away a potential funtionality, adding a new tag field and populating it through the tag place.  I think you've got plenty of room there and it's a great place to introduce a new tag and edit it.

Also, although it limits tags to those in use, it doesn't order them by media type, as I'd hoped.  So "replay gain", etc, will show when viewing an image tag, and custom image tags unused in audio are all there.

[hit_ny]

Also, although it limits tags to those in use, it doesn't order them by media type, as I'd hoped.  So "replay gain", etc, will show when viewing an image tag, and custom image tags unused in audio are all there.

Selective filtering of tags depending on the media has been a long time request.

A potential gotcha with filtering tho, is if you create any custom tags, you have to be careful to include them in the right media category otherwise they may not display at all.

Is this extra step welcome or adding more complexity ?

Otherwise how does MC know whether x is the right tag to display for media y ?

[glynor]

6) fields shown / available are better filtered per media type

This is the only major thing in your list Matt that I'm "afraid" of.  I want to decide what tags to use on what media types, not have someone else decide for me.

A big part of the draw for MC was that it unified how I could filter and view my media.  That I could have a "people" tag for both images, audio, and video for example (or an artist, album, or place).  You might not think of videos in "albums," but I do.  I use the Place and Events tags extensively with video and audio (while many people might think of those only for images).

The other goals you listed seemed like great ideas (though I'm not sure what is inherantly wrong with the combobox control).  I'd tend to lean towards what Marko suggested.  Perhaps we should have the new tag editor system, but still have an "advanced" pop-up tag editor that allows you to view all of the possible tags.

It may have been a long time request, but I think you need to be very careful as to which tags get excluded.  Yes, there's no reason to use replay gain for an image, but who's to say I don't want to assign it an intensity?

[Deivit]

This is the only major thing in your list Matt that I'm "afraid" of.  I want to decide what tags to use on what media types, not have someone else decide for me.

A big part of the draw for MC was that it unified how I could filter and view my media.  That I could have a "people" tag for both images, audio, and video for example (or an artist, album, or place).  You might not think of videos in "albums," but I do.  I use the Place and Events tags extensively with video and audio (while many people might think of those only for images).

I agree with Glynor in this issue.

About a couple of months ago I started to rip all my DVD concerts collection. Although the video clips that I'm getting are "technically" videos, and this is how Media Center treats them, the tagging part of them is almost the same as if they were actually "music"... they have "Artist", "Album", "Track Number". "Genre", etc.

I'm having issues with tagging those files in the Action Window since most of those tags (Artist, as an example) are not available for video files. I explained those issues in this this thread

Thank you.

[marko]

Read your video tagging thread with interest Deivit, went to have a look-see for myself as I have more than a few music videos here too, and you're right.
At first, I wondered if it might be some cloaked form of the "use visible columns" options that was available in the old tag info window, but it was not. MC is filtering the tags available under the 'add tag' button based on media type. Incidentally, the only view options I ever used in the old tag info window were 'show all' and 'show read only'

Now, if I select a music video that already has an [artist] tag, that tag still does not show in the new tag window. The only way I can edit the [artist] tag is to use either panes+tagging mode, or details view and an inline edit.

I'm thinking that the net result of this current trend will be to push me away from the AW altogether. I'll make tagging viewschemes, hide the tree and just get on with it from there. This might be fine, but then I will feel a real burning need for more options with regards to unhiding the tree, and, of course, the return of the bookmarking feature.

Having said all that, it must be remembered that the tag window is still being worked on, so we may yet be pleasantly surprised. only time will tell...

[lalittle]

Incidentally, the only view options I ever used in the old tag info window were 'show all' and 'show read only'

This is exactly how I used/use the tag info screen in MC10 and MC11 as well -- I just set it to show me ALL the tags, INCLUDING the ones that I wasn't using or that I couldn't change anyway (i.e. "read only.")  In my opinion, this gave me the BEST system for editing tags since I could see EVERYTHING in one window (which grew vertically).  I could easily see if a tag was blank since they were still there, I could minimize entire "categories" that I didn't use that often, and I could view and edit ANY tag in the AW.  Also, the same tag was always in the same spot, so they were easy to find.

I really like the tag editing capabilities of the AW in MC11, and feel that while the changes in MC12 might make some sense on the surface, they currently feel like a step back from the layout of MC11.  Oddly enough, I find MC11's tag info screen to actually be "cleaner" than MC12.  I really miss things like the use of lines to seperate the fields, and the use of shades to denote editable vs. non-editable fields.  MC12's layout may seem "less complex" at first glance, but it turns out that this makes it more difficult to actually use.

In my honest opinion, MC12 seems to be trying to fix something that wasn't broken, and in doing so, it seems like we're losing more than we're gaining.  (Please note that I'm not trying to be "insulting" or "negative" with these comments -- I'm simply giving my honest reaction.)

The bottom line is that editing tags in MC11 is still simpler and easier than it is in MC12.

Thanks,

Larry

[glynor]

In my honest opinion, MC12 seems to be trying to fix something that wasn't broken, and in doing so, it seems like we're losing more than we're gaining.  (Please note that I'm not trying to be "insulting" or "negative" with these comments -- I'm simply giving my honest reaction.)

The bottom line is that editing tags in MC11 is still simpler and easier than it is in MC12.

That is exactly how I feel.  As Marko pointed out though, it isn't done yet...

I would probably take some time to carefully evaluate these changes though in light of some of the usability concerns and ask: will our plan address this?  If not, what do we do to address these issues?  If you can't address them, then I'd re-evaluate changing the Tag Editing dialog, because usability is pretty essential to the application's success.

[scthom]

That is exactly how I feel. As Marko pointed out though, it isn't done yet...

I would probably take some time to carefully evaluate these changes though in light of some of the usability concerns and ask: will our plan address this? If not, what do we do to address these issues? If you can't address them, then I'd re-evaluate changing the Tag Editing dialog, because usability is pretty essential to the application's success.

Although we've all been complaining about the new Tag window, I was just thinking that most of us are pretty nimble power users.  It's possible that many people would like the Tag window as it is going along, so I'm thinking as long as there are some options to get "all" tags, it might be fine.  Which by the way is also the way I typically used it.

So at the moment I'm voting with Glynor and taking a wait-and-see attitude.

[lalittle]

So at the moment I'm voting with Glynor and taking a wait-and-see attitude.

I'm confused by the idea of "waiting and seeing," which seems to imply that we should "hold our comments" on this particular subject.  Isn't the whole point of this beta team to test the program, and isn't the idea to find bugs and comment on what we do and don't like about this version? 

It seems to me that "waiting and seeing" potentially does a disservice to the program.  Doesn't the developement team WANT to know what we think about the new layout, inlcuding the things that we don't necessarily like?  In my experience, this is the whole point of a beta program such as this.  I understand that the tag info window is in developement, but wouldn't this be the BEST time to make comments on the directions it's taking?

Although we've all been complaining about the new Tag window...

I think this is at the root of this issue -- i.e. the idea that these comments are "complaining."  I feel that there is a big difference between "complaining" and "commenting" on something that you don't like.  When somebody says "what's your honest opinion about this," it's not complaining to tell them if you don't like something about it.  I understand that it's never fun to hear negative comments about something you've worked hard on creating, but we are the actual end users of this product, so our reactions -- including negative ones -- can be very valuable to the developers.

It's clear that we all love the program -- we wouldn't be here otherwise -- and like everyone else here, I'm very thankful that I was one of the people selected to be on the beta team.  As long as people continue to be polite, I feel that we should continue to comment on anything that we think is important, and that we shoudln't feel that this is "complaining," but rather that it's simply being "honest" and perhaps helping the program to be a better product in the end.  The developers are free to decide how they'll react to any given comment.

I was just thinking that most of us are pretty nimble power users.

I'm thinking as long as there are some options to get "all" tags, it might be fine.

Keep in mind, however, that it's the more powerful features of MC that set it apart from the competition.  I don't use other programs because MC lets me do things that I couldn't do in other programs.

That said, I agree that keeping things "simple" for less powerful users is a very valid consideration.  This, however, should not come at the expense of making the more powerful features more difficult to use.  I'm simply saying that in MY use, the current layout makes tagging more difficult than it was in MC11, and I don't think this needs to be the case.

Thanks,

Larry

[hit_ny]

I'm in support of what others have commented on AW, in the sense it keep the ability to show all tags. This is defnitely a very key area and its ease of use is of paramount importance.

I did not have probs with AW in previous versions, it was responsive and showed everything desired. Was under the impression that this version would be more cosmetic rather than subtracting anything.

[datdude]

There needs to be 2 display options for the new tag info system.

1) displays any song that is highlited.

2) displays the current song playing and switches automatically to the next song playing.

It becomes diffficult to post ratings, moods, etc.. of the cuurent song when you have to hit the 'tag' option in the diaplay menu TWICE (once to close it, once to open it to the current song).  Very annoying and difficult to tag a playlist of songs as you are listening to them. 

All that needs to done is alink in the tag info window that says either current song, or highlited song. Please add this feature.

[JimH]

Isn't the whole point of this beta team to test the program, and isn't the idea to find bugs and comment on what we do and don't like about this version? 

Yes, you're correct.

[lalittle]

Perhaps the answer is to be able to toggle between a "simple" and an "advanced" tag info window.  This way, one could set MC to their particular liking and just leave it that way.  Advanced users would likely leave it on the "Advanced" setting, which would give them the same access and power as before without having to go through any extra steps.  Casual users, on the other hand, could leave it set to the "simple" interface, which would keep the complexity and the percieved "clutter" down to a minimum.

Just a thought.

Larry

[glynor]

I'm confused by the idea of "waiting and seeing," which seems to imply that we should "hold our comments" on this particular subject.  Isn't the whole point of this beta team...

I completely agree with Larry on this entire post.  In fact, I did before (that's why I posted my second paragraph).  My entire point was that while I agreed that there were serious issues with the current direction of the Tag Action Window, it was time now to figure out a way forward and to evaluate these issues before continuing (because it's Not Done Yet^TM).  That's so that a) the problems get solved and b) the programmers don't waste time developing it without a plan that will correct the problems (leading to the possibility of extra work in the long run).

I just think that a large enough contingent of us are concerned about these changes that a "stop, think" is in order.  That was my point.

Oh, and the Advanced toggling?  That, or the separate "edit all tags" dialog would suffice to solve our concerns I suspect.

[Doof]

I haven't had much time yet to really dig into the Tag AW, but from what little I've done with it so far, here are my observations (sorry if I repeat some)

• I like the clean look
• I think that, if my interpretation of where it's headed is correct, then once the kinks are worked out, it should work ok
• I too, think we need some level of control over what fields appear for what media types - I love the idea of being able to filter out tag values that make no sense to me for various media types - but there are obviously some that I and others have made use for - HOWEVER - Is that more a function of the tag values making sense to us, or our need (in the past) to find someway to cram our media into the pre-defined fields? For instance I wouldn't have originally thought of a TV Show in terms of Artist/Album/Track #, but more in terms of Series/Season/Episode, but considering how crowded MCs tagging was with tags already, I crammed all of my videos into the Artist/Album/Track # mold. Now, if I can tell MC to NOT show me Artist/Album/Track # for video files, but to show me Series/Season/Episode, then that would be a huge benefit. On the same note, though... some videos WILL have an Artist (music videos for instance). And I think when viewing the Tags for these video files, then Artist should show up. So some kind of "Only show these fields by default - but always show fields that have data in them" kind of scheme would be preferable. And then give us the ability in Library Options to select which fields belong to which media types by default. In either case, we should be able to add data to any tag in any media type whenever we want. MC's filtering shouldn't completely eliminate this ability. What would be nice is if the list of available tags would show the default values, then at the bottom of the list, add the "Advanced" menu option that cascades off the list of all of the other fields. So we could add any tag we wanted, but at the top level, only the default fields are presented.

• On a slightly related note - I really miss Library Options's ability to quickly show us only the user fields. Any chance you could add a seperate User Fields list so we can quickly access and edit the user fields - while still including user fields in the main list? Like this?

• And I also think that the AW can sometimes be a very cramped area to try and get some tagging done. I pretty much do all of my tagging in the Panes. If the AW is ever going to be the place to do your tag editing, then it's going to need to be able to grow, both horizontally AND vertically.
• And it would be really nice to get back to view that displays all tags, regardless if they're empty or filtered based on their media type. I love displaying my tags the way that MC12 is displaying them now, and for quick edits, it works well, but for some serious tagging chores, a much larger, fully populated interface would be greatly appreciated.

[marko]

big problem for me atm is that when working with image files, viewed as thumbnails, there's no quick way for me to determine the filename or filepath.

Also, I find the editable [filename (...)] field entries in v11.1's tag info window invaluable at times. This is the kind of 'closeness' to the files that I was referring to above, and I do hope we are not going to lose it.

[lalittle]

I just tried build 33, and I still have some issues with the new system.

1)  MC11 was able to show me "categories" of tags, one of which -- the top one -- was "Visible Columns."  This was a FANTASTIC feature since it showed whatever tags I had selected for the current view IN THE ORDER than they were in the current view.  This meant that when I selected one of my "iPod" views for any given iPod user, their unique "iPod" tag was the very TOP field in the AW tag info screen.  Each user's view would show THEIR personal "iPod" tag at the top of the tag info screen, which made editing this tag for large groups of files VERY easy.  There was no confusion over which tag to edit since whoever's view was selected, their corresponding personal tag was at the top of the tag info screen.

There are a few problems in this regard with MC12.  The tag screen no longer has the "visible columns" category, which means that the window will always shows me the SAME set of tags regardless of the view selected.  This means that "John," for example, will no longer see "John iPod" at the top of the list when he has his iPod view selected, and "Mary" will no longer see "Mary iPod" at the top of the tag screen when she has HER iPod view selected. 

Since the "iPod" tags cannot be moved to the top of the list, it's always necessary to "search" for these fields in the list, and each user will have to be sure to find and select their personal tag from the list.  This is much more difficult that it was in MC11.

2)  Another comment on the "categories" in MC11's tag info screen:  They allowed me to mininize my "less used" groups of tags.  This meant that an entire group would only take up a single line, but that I could still quickly expand it if I needed to access these tags.  In MC12, you only have a single, long list of tags, all of which show in the same order for every view.

3)  The method of selecting which tags you want to see in MC12 is cumbersome.  If I want to select 15 tags to display, I have to hit the "tags" button 15 seperate times, and navigate to each tag individually, which includes opening the "more" tags group several times.  It would be MUCH easier if I could open a list, select all the tags I wanted to see, then close the list.  There are just too many tags to use the "one at a time" approach to selecting them.

4)  No seperator lines, no "read only" tags with different shading, and a more "crowded" feel.

The bottom line is that for my personal use, MC12 is offering no advantages to the tag screen compared to MC11, yet it has several DISadvantages compared to MC11.  I REALLY miss things like the ability to have the tag info screen change depending on the view (see "1" above), which is the type of feature that made previous versions of MC really stand out against the competition.  If the new approach is going to work, I think it needs to bring back some of the features and capabilities that made MC11's tag screen work so well (and it DID work really well.)  Perhaps some more "configuration" options that would allow us to set it up as we desire.

I feel that the tag info screen has become as much of (if not MORE so) a "personal" item as other aspects of the interface.  After all, the tag info screen is where many of us actually do the "work" in MC.  Therefore, maybe the answer is a way of personalizing the tag info screen in a similar manner to the way we can personalize the view schemes.  Maybe the tag info screen should have a configuration category in the "Options" menu, where we could 1) select the various options we need, 2) select which tags we do or don't want to see, 3) select the order that the tags display with 4) some way of linking this to the individual view schemes.  This sort of configuration power is what we've come to love about MC.

Thanks for reading,

Larry

[GHammer]

For major tagging work, I'd agree that the window would not be good to work in.
For 'on-the-fly' changes it is quite workable.

I'd rather see a different term than "Format" though.
Format always scares me.
Plus, when you click it, the window then says "Tag Dump".

Maybe go back to "File Info" or show different text accoring to the file type, like MP3 Details, APE Details, etc.

[Doof]

So is MC not hiding empty fields anymore? Is that coming back in some form? Even a checkbox to "Hide Empty Fields"?

For the display of tags, I like it as uncluttered as possible. Earlier builds of MC12 did that perfectly. When it comes down to actually doing some serious tagging jobs, though, being able to display all or a subset of the tags (even if they're empty) is beneficial.

Maybe a few "Views" are in order...

[] Fields in current View
[] Media Specific fields
[] All Fields
[] Specific Fields
----------------------------------------
[] Hide empty fields <- and this option would be hidden for the "All Fields" view?

Something like that?

[lalittle]

Maybe a few "Views" are in order...

[] Fields in current View
[] Media Specific fields
[] All Fields
[] Specific Fields
----------------------------------------
[] Hide empty fields <- and this option would be hidden for the "All Fields" view?

Something like that?

This is the kind of thing I'm hoping for, but I wouldn't want to have to choose only "one" of the options you've given.  I'd like the "Fields in current view" to show up at the top of the list, and then ALL the fields to show up below it.  I really don't mind if some of the fields are "repeated" in the AW -- this never bothered me in MC10 or MC11, where the "Visible Columns" category was selectable for display at the top of the list.  This way, all my "most used" tags would be in a group at the top of the list, making them very easy to find quickly.


Column View (MC11) vs. Column-less view (MC12).

On a related note, how do people feel about the new "column-less" view in MC12?  I personally like the "columns" view from MC11 better.  When you look at a longer list of items, I find that it's much easier if the information is arranged in columns, where all the "values" are left justified against the same margin.  In MC12, the values butt up against the field names, which in my opinion makes looking through a long list much more difficult since as you scan down the list, you have to scan back and forth repeatedly to read the items.  With MC11's "column" type view, it's a lot easier to quickly scan down the list.

Larry

[marko]

The latest build is certainly getting there.

I am with Larry 100% regarding the column/no columns comments.

Those square boxes seen in list type fields have gotta go.

In all of this, I still wonder what relevance a fields given category has for us now. Is this something that MC will only use internally now?

[lalittle]

Thanks for the input Marko.  I'm confused about what you're asking here:

In all of this, I still wonder what relevance a fields given category has for us now. Is this something that MC will only use internally now?

I'm not clear if you're referring to the comments I made above about the "categories," or if you're talking about something else.  Please let me know if any of my comments above need clarification.

Thanks,

Larry

[marko]

was just musing in general...

When setting up or editing a library field, we can specify which category it should be placed in, then, with previous versions, we would know where to find the given tag in the AW.
Perhaps I'm just not getting it, but as things stand atm, I don't see what difference choosing one category over another makes, and if the answer is none, it feels like a waste. I've so far got zero thoughts on how they should/could be used, those may come later once I've played around with it a bit more.

[Matt]

The latest build is certainly getting there.

I am with Larry 100% regarding the column/no columns comments.

Those square boxes seen in list type fields have gotta go.

In all of this, I still wonder what relevance a fields given category has for us now. Is this something that MC will only use internally now?

Could you send me a library backup that has those boxes?  I'm not sure what it is.

Thanks.

[LonWar]

Email sent.

There hard return boxes...

[Doof]

I get the boxes, too.



Anywhere there's a hard return in lyrics (which for a while made me wonder if it wasn't something funky my Lyrics Editor plugin was doing), but then I noticed them in the People field everywhere there would be a semicolon.

[LonWar]

Hi Matt,

I just sent you another email.

Try any AC/DC track...
M:\mp3 Library\Artist A-B\AC_DC\Back In Black\05-Let Me Put My Love Into You.mp3

Thanks,

[lalittle]

was just musing in general...

When setting up or editing a library field, we can specify which category it should be placed in, then, with previous versions, we would know where to find the given tag in the AW.
Perhaps I'm just not getting it, but as things stand atm, I don't see what difference choosing one category over another makes, and if the answer is none, it feels like a waste. I've so far got zero thoughts on how they should/could be used, those may come later once I've played around with it a bit more.

I get what you're saying now.

I'd like to see the return of the ability to display "categories" in the AW, which would bring back the ability to have the AW tag screen change depending on which view scheme is displayed (i.e. the "Visible Columns" category.)  I don't think there is any problem with "repeating" tags in the AW since it can make the job of tagging easier.

The best scenario for everybody would be an MC12 AW tag screen that offered a great deal of customization, similar to the way the REST of the MC interface does.  The AW is the "workhorse" section of the layout for a lot of people, so it follows that it should be highly configurable.  This would allow people to set up the AW tag screen the way THEY liked it, and wouldn't force the compromise between "clean" and "powerful," which seems to be happening at the moment.  Rather than trying to find a balance that will please everybody (which I don't think is possible), I feel that the Tag screen should just let the user decide what they like.  This, to me, would reflect the "tradition" of MC, which has always been about giving users the power to set up MC to their own personal liking.

Thanks,

Larry

[marko]

Action window > tag > keywords > add new tag:

Up to this point, everything is happening in the action window. It draws the focus of your attention down into that small square in the bottom left corner of the program. Clicking on 'add new tag' pops a text entry box with a dropdown list right in the middle of the screen. I was fully expecting it to appear inside the action window, and for some reason, was irked when it didn't.

[datdude]

Still seveal things that bug me about the new system.  Overall I like it much better than before, great job.

1) In the action window - edit playing now list, if I right click on a specific song and click tag, the tag window pops up, BUT NOT FOR THAT SONG.  Another reason why there needs to be fully functional playing now list on the left hand side.

2) If I click on the top display, for the current songs tags, I have to hit it TWICE, once to open, and once to close.  THIS IS BAD.

3) Ratings are too easy to change, particularly when multpile songs are highlited and becomes very DANGEROUS , as the rating can be changed for all of them.

4) When clicking on add new tag, there needs to be a cancel button rather than  just an 'ok'.

5) There should be a 'taging while playing mode' so that the tag screen is auto switches to the newest playing song.

6) Each line/field in the window should be fully hot linked and not just where there is text.  This would make tagging that much swifter.

[lalittle]

Overall I like it much better than before, great job.

My feeling (as you might have guessed from my posts) is exactly the opposite.  I feel that in putting so much emphasis in trying to "simplify" things and please everybody with one layout, the AW Tag screen has been greatly weakened.  I realize that whether one "likes" it or not is subjective, but as I see it, the fact of the matter is simply that it used to have more power than it does now -- i.e. I am able to "do" a lot more with the tag info screen in MC11.1 than I can with MC12.  If you didn't happen to use the features that were eliminated, then this won't matter to you.  If, however, you were someone who DID use the added features of MC11.1 (like the categories and the abilty to alter the tag info view depending on the selected view scheme) and if you happen to find the previous "columns" easier to work with than the current view, than this version is a step down.

I'm still hoping that MC12 will offer us the abilty to customize the tag screen such that we can have access to some of the things that made MC11's tag info screen work so well for me.

Thanks again,

Larry

[glynor]

I think I've also made my feelings fairly well known on this, but just to confirm....

What Larry said says it well.

[Doof]

My needs are simple. For me, as it is right now in .036, it works.

I kind of miss the "Add Tag" part of it, though. It's kind of a pain to tell it to display a specific tag first, just to be able to fill that tag in. If they left it as is right now, but brought back the Add Tag part, I'd be happy.

[marko]

I'm still not fully sold on this new action window you know, but I'm warming to it...

I absolutely love this...

It needs finishing though. As it is, it's pretty pointless because it's not there long enough to read any more than a line or two... If the mouse were moved over the popup, perhaps it could stay on view untill the moused is removed or clicked? Needs to be scrollable or bigger by default too.

[modelmaker]

My feeling (as you might have guessed from my posts) is exactly the opposite.  I feel that in putting so much emphasis in trying to "simplify" things and please everybody with one layout, the AW Tag screen has been greatly weakened.  I realize that whether one "likes" it or not is subjective, but as I see it, the fact of the matter is simply that it used to have more power than it does now -- i.e. I am able to "do" a lot more with the tag info screen in MC11.1 than I can with MC12.  If you didn't happen to use the features that were eliminated, then this won't matter to you.  If, however, you were someone who DID use the added features of MC11.1 (like the categories and the abilty to alter the tag info view depending on the selected view scheme) and if you happen to find the previous "columns" easier to work with than the current view, than this version is a step down.

I'm still hoping that MC12 will offer us the abilty to customize the tag screen such that we can have access to some of the things that made MC11's tag info screen work so well for me.

Thanks again,

Larry

As a non-power user here, I agree with Larry and some of the others on this. I still feel more comfortable with 11.1's AW. As a matter of fact, last night I imported a dozen albums and found tagging in 12 confusing, it was hard to find certain fields and I ended up going back to 11.1 to do my tagging and then going back to 12 and used Otto to update the db. For me the workflow is smoother in 11.1.

Just an average (computer) user's opinion.

[scthom]

I agree it's not quite as powerful.  And I miss that.

I do sort of like the new window, but only as an addition to or an option to the more powerful direct-access way.

[lalittle]

Thanks for all the feedback and opinions on this.  It's nice to see that there are othes who have similar feelings to mine on this issue, and I appreciate any discussion on this from others, whether they agree with my feelings or not.

I still feel that the answer to this is a more "configurable" Tag editing section of the AW that offers the ability to configure the Tag screen in a way the suits each user.  It's "default" state could be as it is now in MC12, which would make it simpler and therefore more accessible for the new users, but for the people that require more power, the options would be there to customize it to one's specific needs, which would make everybody happy.  I'd personally most likely set it up much like the MC11.1 Tag Info screen.

As I mentioned earlier, the Tag window is the "workhorse" section of MC for many people (like myself) so it follows that it deserves to have a high level of configurabilty, which has always been one of MC's strong points.

Larry

PS.  I'm unusually busy and will continue to be over the next few weeks, so I may not be able to read and post to this forum as much as I'd like for a little while.  I'll still try to offer feedback as much as I can, but if you don't see many posts from me, it's only temporary.

[datdude]

Here is another fix that should be made to my list:

If there is no date for a song how are you supposed to tag it in the tag info screen?  See, there is no link for it.

[lalittle]

Here is another fix that should be made to my list:

If there is no date for a song how are you supposed to tag it in the tag info screen?  See, there is no link for it.

Good catch.  Even the "show empty fields" option does not allow editing this field in the tag window.

Larry

[lalittle]

A couple SPECIFIC ideas for the Tag sceen:

It seems time that the Tag screen options, like the "Handheld" options or "Theater View" options, etc., should get it's own seperate page on the main Options page.  This way, there could be an "Advanced" section where "power users" could access some of the features we're currently missing, while the "non power users" would only see the "basic" options in the main section.

Continuing with this idea, in the "Tag Window" section of the main "Options" page, there could be an "Advanced" section that is not visible unless you click it.  In this section, there could be a list of ALL available tags, where we could:

1) Re-order the list (a "default button could return the list to alphabetical order)
2) Individually edit various DISPLAY options of the tags.  Available options could be things like:

"Display if empty"
"Display ONLY if in current view scheme"
etc.

The window could be set up similarly to the current "View Scheme" creation/editing window.

This would allow configuration options for power users (in the "Advanced" section), WITHOUT cluttering up the actual tag window or making things more "complex looking" for those that don't need advanced options.  The non "power users" would simply not go to the "Advanced" section of options.

Just an idea.

Thanks,

Larry

[modelmaker]

This would allow configuration options for power users (in the "Advanced" section), WITHOUT cluttering up the actual tag window or making things more "complex looking" for those that don't need advanced options.  The non "power users" would simply not go to the "Advanced" section of options.

As a non-power user, (but I'm a pretty good speller! ), I like this idea very much.

[Alex B]

The new system is missing a possibility to remove ratings as I already reported in one of the build threads. A "clear ratings" button or similar is needed.

[park]

I'd like to see a button in the tagging window for adding new fields. I thought that this had already been done when reading other's posts about the "add tag" button, but actually "add tag" only creates a new value for an existing field.

I really like the simplicity of the new tagging window though. I generally use the same set of fields based on media type, and so it feels really intuitive to me to be able to limit the fields use see based on media type.

An advanced mode, showing the fields in groupings like MC11.1 wouldnt go amiss for power users though I suppose.

[darichman]

1) Re-order the list (a "default button could return the list to alphabetical order)

This is the single most wanted feature of mine!

This way we can logically group similar fields. I have a lot of classical music fields and at the moment they appear all over the Tag Info screen. It would be nice to group them all together.

2) Individually edit various DISPLAY options of the tags.  Available options could be things like:

"Display if empty"
"Display ONLY if in current view scheme"
etc.

You read my mind This seems like the best way to show only tags that are relevant to the media you're tagging.

Having similar tags for all audio or all video etc is a step in the right direction, but still falls apart when you're dealing with different forms of media within the same media type (eg Video may be TV shows, music videos, personal videos etc)

To choose which tags are available for individual vew schemes would leave me in tagging heaven...

[Doof]

You can add my vote.

[lalittle]

I realize I may be starting to sound like a broken record on this issue, but this is VERY important to me since it directly effects my everyday MC workflow.

To choose which tags are available for individual vew schemes would leave me in tagging heaven...

Exactly.  MC11 had a group called "Visible Fields" that showed up at the top of the list, and which ordered the tags in the same order that the view scheme used.  This was a TERRIFIC feature and made tagging a LOT easier since it was customizable, and since it contained all of my "most used" tags right at the top of the list, and ONLY the tags that applied to the current media type since it only showed the tags in the currently selected view scheme.  This was simply a REALLY great idea.  The rest of the tags (some repeated, which was FINE) showed up below in other groups, which could be collapsed/expanded as desired (another nice feature.)

The MC11 Tag Info screen also showed read only tags as a different color (another nice feature) and showed grid lines.  I also prefered the "column" layout, where all the values were left justified against the same margin, as were the field names.  This made it MUCH easier to find the tag you were looking for.

I REALLY miss the MC11 tag info layout, and am still hoping that MC12 will bring back these features since they have a large, DIRECT effect on my workflow.  I still feel like the changes made to this window gave up "usability" in order to try to make it "look" simpler, which ended up having the OPPOSITE effect for users like myself (i.e. it made it harder to view and use since everything looks mixed together.)

I also still feel that the extra features could be added to a page in the "Options" window where we could customize the Tag window EXACTLY as we want it while still offering the "simpler" window to the less advanced users.

Is this something that's still being worked on, or am I out of luck?

Larry