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[HiFiTubes]

Removed WASAPI encounters of the 4th kind - sorry got overwhelmed.

[Matt]

It seems that no matter what settings, it's impossible to get an aggressive crossfade with .3-.5 seconds using WASAPI between songs of differing sample rates.

You can't mix streams of different sample rates.  This is the basic reason why most sound cards always resample.

If you want to cross-fade varying sample rates, you will have to let Media Center resample them to the same rate.  A hardware rate change requires a full hard reset of the hardware.

[HiFiTubes]

Makes sense, but aren't we in the 21st century Matt 

I'm used to re-sampling in MC from using my old EMU cards; I may do the same now to avoid any more hardware sync issues when switching between sample rates.

Can you elaborate on how the Flush device buffers option works? Does it flush on initial start, track changes, seeking?

thanks

[JimH]

I just ran across this similar problem:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=56928.0

[HiFiTubes]

Thanks Jim. There is something to using ASIO with any type of network connection, wired or wireless.

I have tested multiple cards with WASAPI, ASIO, and DirectSound: ASIO always results in higher system latency when the source is network based, in my experience and on certain machines. Your mileage may vary.

@ Matt - have you been able to test with any 192kHz files? I forgot to mention I can reproduce the buffer overrun only with these larger bit rate files.

Sorry Matt, my findings don't concur. While I do have an Atom, it seems the problem is with MC.

I just tested playback of a local 192kHz file in Foobar with no hiccups using Lynx ASIO or WASAPI, while min/max MC (in tiles mode at 1920x1080).

Then I switch to playback of MC for the same file, and I can make playback hiccup every time on minimize.

I tested seeking to the end of 20 files in Foobar using their WASAPI 2.2.1 output plugin with no issues or hiccups. MC resulted in LOUD white noise, or out of sync playback when left to crossfade into another song.

I have both Foobar and MC set to 1000ms buffer, with MC set to 6 seconds playback and no memory playback. I have also tried the hardware sync feature at 1/4 and 1/2 second which just makes things worse. Tried various WASAPI settings but 24bit playback is needed for Lynx WASAPI playback so that's all I can use.

I can't see how this is an ATOM issue if Foobar works 100% with the same files and sound hardware.

[Matt]

@ Matt - have you been able to test with any 192kHz files? I forgot to mention I can reproduce the buffer overrun only with these larger bit rate files.

Is this report for ASIO or WASAPI?  Are you resampling to 192 using Media Center or playing source content that's 192?

Is this on your Atom-based machine?

It would help to focus on one problem at a time or use discrete threads, as this thread has gotten a little hard to follow.

Thanks.

[Q]

Hi All,

I finally tracked the popping and crackling down to the wireless connection. I disabled the wireless connection an dhaven't heard a crack, click or pop since. I don't know how I will listen to online radio but for now I am happily listneing to 24/96 bit perfect. Thanks.

[Matt]

Hi All,

I finally tracked the popping and crackling down to the wireless connection. I disabled the wireless connection an dhaven't heard a crack, click or pop since. I don't know how I will listen to online radio but for now I am happily listneing to 24/96 bit perfect. Thanks.

Good to hear, and thanks for letting us know.

[HiFiTubes]

Sorry, just getting exasperated I guess. I edited out the WASAPI info I posted.

To re-iterate:

I just tested playback of a local 192kHz file in Foobar with no hiccups using Lynx ASIO, while min/max MC (in tiles mode at 1920x1080).

Then I switch to playback of MC for the same file, and I can make playback hiccup every time while min/max MC (in tiles mode at 1920x1080).

JMarks score (.68) is 364 on this dual-core ATOM.

I spent the last hour just listening via WASAPI and 96kHz files (some native, some upsampled), and it sounds perfect; no glitches and low system latency.

Like I said before, it could be related to how the NIC driver conflicts with ASIO, why it doesn't with WASAPI, I of course have no idea.

[JimH]

JMarks score (.68) is 364 on this dual-core ATOM.

That's a weak machine.

[JimH]

I finally tracked the popping and crackling down to the wireless connection. I disabled the wireless connection and haven't heard a crack, click or pop since. I don't know how I will listen to online radio but for now I am happily listneing to 24/96 bit perfect. Thanks.

Nice.  Well done.  Thanks for the report.

[HiFiTubes]

That's a weak machine.

....that can do 1080P without a hitch.  MC uses 3% cpu at 192kHz.....

[JimH]

So I should put a quad-core back into my living room it will solve the glitch in MC that does not occur in foobar?

Every piece of software uses the machine differently.  Read Q's post above.  Try what he found.

[HiFiTubes]

Every piece of software uses the machine differently.  Read Q's post above.  Try what he found.

Excellent point. I have already disabled wireless. I can live with a glitch in MC with 192kHz material as I'm going to be using mainly WASAPI and 96kHz material; just thought you all might be interested in the result of the Foobar/MC comparison.

[JimH]

It's likely that this will turn out to be a driver issue or some other software running in the background consuming resources.

[HiFiTubes]

It's likely that this will turn out to be a driver issue or some other software running in the background consuming resources.

I agree, I just wish someone had some insight into why ASIO hates my NIC driver, and WASAPI loves it.

[HiFiTubes]

I could try rolling back the onboard NIC driver; maybe it is a Lynx driver issue. Too bad ASIO4ALL is not compatible with the card. I'll try one more time.

[Matt]

I just tested playback of a local 192kHz file in Foobar with no hiccups using Lynx ASIO, while min/max MC (in tiles mode at 1920x1080).

Then I switch to playback of MC for the same file, and I can make playback hiccup every time while min/max MC (in tiles mode at 1920x1080).

This isn't a fair test.  

You're asking Media Center to do work and organize its own process memory when you minimize and restore it.

This will, of course, affect Media Center and its playback more than it will effect a separate process on the system.

If you could find a 3rd party program that causes a skip in Media Center but doesn't in another player, it would be a fair test.


With regards to minimization, we do relatively heavy work on program minimization.  We unload the skin, much of the database, and compact process memory.  

It is a priority for Media Center to have as small of a footprint as possible when minimized.  

Possibly this work could be done more gradually or even be optional.  However, this isn't a widespread problem or even one we can reproduce, making it hard to know what to tune.

[HiFiTubes]

Okay.   I guess it's just my machine.

 

This isn't a fair test.  

You're asking Media Center to do work and organize its own process memory when you minimize and restore it.

This will, of course, affect Media Center and its playback more than it will effect a separate process on the system.

If you could find a 3rd party program that causes a skip in Media Center but doesn't in another player, it would be a fair test.


We do relatively heavy work on program minimization.  We unload the skin, much of the database, and compact process memory.  It is a priority for Media Center to have as small of a footprint as possible when minimized.  Possibly this work could be done more gradually or even be optional.  However, this isn't a widespread problem or even one we can reproduce, making it hard to know what to tune.

[Matt]

Okay.   I guess it's just my machine.

You're using a $1000 soundcard, playing 192 KHz files, driving 1080p, but using a low performance computer.

It's possible adding an option to change what Media Center does when minimized would help you.  We're not opposed to it.

But my guess is that the option would cure this one particular issue, but then you'd have hiccups from some other action.

[HiFiTubes]

You're using a $1000 soundcard, playing 192 KHz files, driving 1080p, but using a low performance computer.

It's possible adding an option to change what Media Center does when minimized would help you.  We're not opposed to it.

But my guess is that the option would cure this one particular issue, but then you'd have hiccups from some other action.

I'm honestly not sure why you guys keep hammering on my system. I'm one of 7 people who posted about an ASIO issue, and apparently one of the only ones still affected after the "fix". So 1080P over LAN is low performance? Is MC that powerful or resource hungry? Maybe so. I'm not opposed to that. Please remember that this is only using ASIO; I don't get glitches when switching views or minimize when I use WASAPI. So that's the solution for my little wimpy Atari.

Not many people want more than than a low footprint mini-ITX these days for hifi use LOL. As opposed to many who seem to still be hell bent on overclocking or comparing the length of their Jmarks. I already have a more powerful server for transcoding and file management. This is a top of line 4GB DDR3 Zotac dual-core ATOM with a Vertex 2 SSD; maybe the SSD is bad? I ran ATTO benches while back that looked good. Should I post the Jmarks (that seems to be the new solution to instantly determine the source of any problem). Maybe something out of the ordinary will be apparent. Thanks for all your help; I'll leave this thread for others to enjoy.

[JimH]

So 1080P over LAN is low performance?

That proves your network has enough bandwidth and that your graphics chip is good.  It doesn't prove that your system is stable or trouble free.

And you seem more interested in defending your system than looking for the cause.

The "Weird and Wonderful" thread is a long list of problems whose solutions turned out to be something other than an MC change.  That may be where Q found his answer.

Google is another great resource for finding similar problems.

Both Matt and I have tried to help.

[HiFiTubes]

Thanks for your help. My troubleshooting has gone as far as it will go. Hope it helped JR in some way.

That proves your network has enough bandwidth and that your graphics chip is good.  It doesn't prove that your system is stable or trouble free.

And you seem more interested in defending your system than looking for the cause.

The "Weird and Wonderful" thread is a long list of problems whose solutions turned out to be something other than an MC change.  That may be where Q found his answer.

Google is another great resource for finding similar problems.

Both Matt and I have tried to help.