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[JimH]

Warning:   This is not a feature request thread.

Matt's off to the Boundary Waters for a few days.  Before he left, we were talking about "The Big Picture".  Linux, iOS, etc.  What's important.

So we're thinking about where MC will go next and I'd like to ask for your input.  Please don't discuss this elsewhere.

Here's my view of where we are now.  MC covers a lot of ground:

A solid and very fast database core

A powerful and versatile 64bit datapath audio engine with audiophile quality

A DirectShow video engine which can use the audio engine and sets up automatically

Whole house networking using DLNA or Library Server

Support for Androids and MC Remotes

Broad support for player devices

CD, DVD, & Blu-ray ripping

CD and DVD burning

Extensively multi-threaded

Good metadata for music

Live TV, Recorded TV, and Client/Server TV

Support for Netflix, Hulu, Youtube, etc.

-------------------------
In short, MC is a very powerful, and full featured entertainment system.

While we expect to continue to improve the quality of what we currently do, I'm also interested in filling in some of the missing pieces.

Here's my list of the big pieces we'd like to add.  Please suggest other big pieces that may be missing.

1.  Better metadata

2.  Better EPG for TV

3.  Broader support for TV (DVB-S, etc)

4.  iPod/iPhone sync

5.  iPhone/iPad version of Gizmo

6.  JRiver extender devices -- one PC based, one DLNA

7.  Live TV on clients when used with Library Server

8.  Carnac assisted tagging

[more from below -- through message 26]

glynor
Better resources for beginners and intermediate users

gvanbrunt
dynamic streaming to devices

marko
Raw file development and management. Ability to export to a choice of file types jpg, png tif etc. in a choice of formats for a choice of destinations, flickr, email, local HD etc. etc. which would

rjm

books – index epub/mobi

[Audiobooks]pop up info when I hover or click something.

Lise
playback of notes

MrHaugen
improved Theater View skinning

Series art and Season art (episode would just be standard folder.jpg)

TheLion
Blu-Ray playback - full menu support

Picture/Photo viewer - support for color management and HQ scaling algorithms (Lanczos). To make it viable for viewing HiRes/HQ photos from DSLRs and not just snapshots.

rpalmer68
suggest that MC start making more efficient use of a tuner by being able to record multiple streams off the one tuner, or at least not use two tuners to record two recordings that are one after the other on the same channel!

upload photos to google+ and picassa
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=65228.msg446996#msg446996

[KingSparta]

Boundary Waters = Boundary Waters canoe area of northeastern Minnesota

>> A solid and very fast database core

Anything faster is better

>> Live TV, Recorded TV, and Client/Server TV

I love my TV

> Support for Netflix, Hulu, YouTube

I thought it was in there already, In theater mode (that I don't use)

>> iPod/iPhone sync

Have you gotten Apple support yet?

Are people still using Ipods, I figured that this device would go bye bye after the Iphone came out.

[glynor]

1.  Better metadata

2.  Better EPG for TV

3.  Broader support for TV (DVB-S, etc)

4.  iPod/iPhone sync

5.  iPhone/iPad version of Gizmo

6.  JRiver extender devices -- one PC based, one DLNA

7.  Live TV on clients when used with Library Server

8.  Carnac assisted tagging

That's a very good list.

The only things I can think of other than those are small potatoes.

EDIT: Well, one thing...

9. Better resources for beginners and intermediate users.

[rick.ca]

In the interest of keeping the list short...Item 1 won't work without 8. More to the point, what's needed is automatic identification and tagging using available meta data sources—on import and as required.

[gvanbrunt]

As much as I hate to use the overused term, Cloud is going to be very important. MC has actually been a for runner in the this area with it's client server support long before the term was coined. My take is this:

MC should be "cloud" provider.  It should offer:
- Gizmo like support to all major devices. So iOS, Blackberry, Android and Windows Phone 7, and Windows clients.
- dynamic streaming to these devices so steaming adjusts to the bandwidth available.
- access to the library through web services. This support is there now, but there may be some things still missing.
- access to the library through a web site. This support is already there as well.
- access to these services in an easy to setup, and secure fashion. JR has made some great strides in the ease to setup department, however I would suggest creating a few Wizards to walk end users through setting things up.

MC should also be "cloud" consumer.  It should
- have a frame work for easilly writing "drivers" to connect to cloud services that will be offerd. I expect a great many of these in the near future, so the more the better. It would be ideal if it was something end users could extend...
- be able to offer these services to any of MC's clients.

For both of these it should do this in a way that is easy for anyone to use.

[KingSparta]

Not a Request But, Cloud storage For Performer Store Would Be Nice.

[park]

I also generally agree with your list. I would say that adding functionality to Gizmo on the various platforms should be given special attention, as more and more people will be accessing their media on tablets over the coming years.

[vagskal]

Integrate online streaming music services in the database. Today users have physical media files on hard drives (and soon in some cloud) as well as access to streaming services but no software that combines them in a seamless way. Let users add albums and songs on Spotify and have them treated in the MC database as if they were physical files (allow tag changes, ratings, play counts etc.). Then I might stop buying CDs and downloadable files. I want to collect things and see and handle/enhance what is in _my_ collection, not all the music available on some streaming service.

Support for iThings. Today I would hesitate to buy a software for playback on my home entertainment system that did not have a good iPad app.

A versatile statistics/report feature including graphs.

[marko]

No-one mentioned images yet?

Big Things? Raw file development and management. Ability to export to a choice of file types jpg, png tif etc. in a choice of formats for a choice of destinations, flickr, email, local HD etc. etc. which would allow me to bin Lightroom.

Another thing that occurred to me the other day was: Would it be possible to have a client MC using a served library, with merged local records.... that would be pretty big too

-marko

[rjm]

Thanks for asking. I'd like the focus to be metadata. Here is my world...

Books
I started with all (pdf) books in MC. Then along came mobi/epub and I needed something to manage their metadata so I now use Calibre for epub/mobi and MC for pdf. Then I wanted to search content so I had to introduce another application for indexing and searching. But most search engines do not index epub/mobi so I currently only have content search on pdf. Three different apps plus a search gap is not a stable situation. I want to get all my books into one app again.

Audiobooks
MC is perfect for all audiobook tasks except one metadata related thing. I create a local text file and/or links to info about the audiobook such as the plot and reviews. When browsing audiobooks in MC I crave for a feature that would pop up info when I hover or click something. Currently I have to double click and open the text file in a 3rd party app which stops any audio I may have been sampling and it's not a nice experience.

Video
MC is perfect for organizing and playing video. Not so good for metadata. I currently keep only basic metadata (name, genre, date) in MC and use Movie Collector for all complex metadata (cast, crew, plot, episodes, reviews, cover art, etc.). I would love to have all my metadata in MC. If someday you offer competitive metadata features for video you will probably need to auto-import data from other popular apps because the time invested in metadata for large collections can be huge.

Photos
I moved the metadata for my photos from ThumbsPlus to JRiver and now manage photos with MC. It works but my son switched his photos over to Lightroom and what he's shown me looks pretty good. I'm staying with MC for now but I can feel something tugging at me.

Music
MC is perfect. No other apps needed or wanted.

[MrHaugen]

It's an ok list. I do however think you've missed a couple of very important things. Please do not forget the real user based database system that have been discussed for a long time. That is needed when you first start to use server and clients. And more and more users use MC in multi client/user setups.
I'm also somewhat shocked that you have not even thought of the shape of Theater View. I'm not saying that it's awful today, but if we are to attract new users and keep old ones who are getting tired of looking at the competitors leaving us in dust, then we need to do something rather drastic there. This and the metadata issue is the ONLY two major things that is making all those XBMC users stay with their beloved Media Center, and not joining our club.

When it comes to Theater View, we have two main directions of dealing with this problem. One is to enable Theater View to be totally skinnable, and to make it rather easy for the power users to make beautiful and functional skins. The other option is to keep it as is, and just focus on a better default Theater View experience. A combination of this would be the best of course.


Skinning friendly focus
What have helped communities and apps like XBMC, is that their interface is very customizable. This is one of the biggest downsides of MC, and it's one of the reason why we do not have many skins that really appeal to those people who likes functionality AND beauty while they look at their TV. I've not looked much into skinning my self, because I've gotten the impression that this is not very well supported, and I'm lousy with that XML language or what you call it. So, please correct me if I'm out of line here.

I think we need more focus on:
- Better documentation of skinning?
- Better support for module skinning. Every part of MC Theater View have to be programmable. Move them where we want, increase/decrease size, change textures, colors etc.
- Most of the items should be linked in a matter that makes it possible to remove or add things to different places
- All this in a well structured code, so most skinners don't get lost.

Better Image support
Before I get into the Theater View rewamp, I have to express the need of better image support for media. We have artist images now, so I see no reason why we could not get Series art and Season art (episode would just be standard folder.jpg). We also need support for Series banners and backdrops. What needs to be done in addition is a standard way of treating the Series image as a image for all seasons/episodes and the season art to be treated as one image for each season episode. Relational fields should be the key, and to research where this mainstream Media Centers stores this files. Theater View would get a serious face lift on it's own.

Theater View rewamp
Even if you do something about skinning, there should be a Theater View default that behaves somewhat differently than today, and looks differently. If you ever want to be competitive for all those users that users MC from the couch that is. This is a way to big field to just throw out in such a thread. I'll give you much more here in a different thread if you're interested.


Question to JRiver
I've been thinking about this subject for years. I've tried lots of other media centers, seen a lot of screen shots of what can be done. I've made basic illustrations for my self and starting taking notes of what have to be done. In fact, I think I have a complete Theater View setup in my head that I think would work VERY well with a remote, mouse and touch screen input. It would be a LOT nicer looking, be more intuitive, have lots of WAF and it would support all of todays needs with images, backgrounds, different view types and list types etc. It would NOT prevent our power users to do amazing things either. It would also be completely supported by what we already have today, with the exception of the images and banners mentioned above. As I said, the skinning part does not HAVE to be done this round. But it would be good for the community and progress of skinning.

My question: Would you like me to write all of this down and to make some real illustrations? As a suggestion for a solution, that is yours to do what ever you want with. It would take days to complete, and I'm not about to do this huge job unless you are considering this part of MC to be important, that you see a need for it and you are willing to do something with it if the idea is good. I don't need promises, but I want to know that it will not just be forgotten.

[leezer3]

Thanks for asking. I'd like the focus to be metadata. Here is my world...

Books
I started with all (pdf) books in MC. Then along came mobi/epub and I needed something to manage their metadata so I now use Calibre for epub/mobi and MC for pdf. Then I wanted to search content so I had to introduce another application for indexing and searching. But most search engines do not index epub/mobi so I currently only have content search on pdf. Three different apps plus a search gap is not a stable situation. I want to get all my books into one app again.

Audiobooks
MC is perfect for all audiobook tasks except one metadata related thing. I create a local text file and/or links to info about the audiobook such as the plot and reviews. When browsing audiobooks in MC I crave for a feature that would pop up info when I hover or click something. Currently I have to double click and open the text file in a 3rd party app which stops any audio I may have been sampling and it's not a nice experience.

Video
MC is perfect for organizing and playing video. Not so good for metadata. I currently keep only basic metadata (name, genre, date) in MC and use Movie Collector for all complex metadata (cast, crew, plot, episodes, reviews, cover art, etc.). I would love to have all my metadata in MC. If someday you offer competitive metadata features for video you will probably need to auto-import data from other popular apps because the time invested in metadata for large collections can be huge.

Photos
I moved the metadata for my photos from ThumbsPlus to JRiver and now manage photos with MC. It works but my son switched his photos over to Lightroom and what he's shown me looks pretty good. I'm staying with MC for now but I can feel something tugging at me.

Music
MC is perfect. No other apps needed or wanted.

Agree with most of those. For a 'creative' solution to the audiobook problem, I use this:
Create a new calculated field of =[Filename (path)]description.txt Then create a new link, with the base URL blank and the search URL set as =[Your New Field] and set this to open in a new tab.
Doesn't seem to work correctly with the external browser link, and I've never bothered to debug further. This trick also works with HTML files, and you just need to remember to keep the filenames consistant

-Leezer-

[rjm]

Create a new calculated field of =[Filename (path)]description.txt Then create a new link, with the base URL blank and the search URL set as =[Your New Field] and set this to open in a new tab.

Very nice tip, thanks leezer3!
When the Links feature was introduced I thought it might be the solution but I could not get links to local files to work. I will try this.  If it does work I suspect it may not be as smooth as I would like because we still need to swtch to a different tab to view the info. The best solution would be for info to pop up in the current view.

<edit>
Jim, sorry to clutter this thread.
Leezer, it works, sort of. Switching to different tab to view info is clunky and formatting is not nice. Error handing for missing info file is not very nice. I think current method of double clicking info file for viewing in txt app is better. Perhaps for interim solution we could go back to old method of not stopping audio when data file is opened?

[TheLion]

My 2 cents (big points):

- Blu-Ray playback - full menu support (make it wife friendly)

- Picture/Photo viewer - support for color management and HQ scaling algorithms (Lanczos). To make it viable for viewing HiRes/HQ photos from DSLRs and not just snapshots.

Other than that I am very happy!

[rpalmer68]

My thoughts;

I think your list is pretty good Jim, and thanks for asking us, I'm especially keen on #'s 2, 6 & 7.

I also like the idea of a skinnable Theater View as discussed by Mr Haugen, and I'd really encourage JRiver to take up his generous offer to document his ideas.  If the community can help improve/develop Theater View once it's skinnable I think that would be fantastic, as it does lag behind other similar products in my opinion.

Bluray menus would, be great, but that does depend on things outside JRiver's control at the moment.

Under improved TV support I would like to suggest that MC start making more efficient use of a tuner by being able to record multiple streams off the one tuner, or at least not use two tuners to record two recordings that are one after the other on the same channel!  

Thanks
Richard

[JimH]

Thanks very much for the feedback (so far).

I'm going to reply here to most of the suggestions, and also put in bold some of the ideas that we will try to do.

I'll put my reply below each person's comments.

glynor

Better resources for beginners and intermediate users

An obviously good idea.

rick.ca

automatic identification and tagging using available meta data sources­ on import and as required.

That's what carnac is.

gvanbrunt

MC should be "cloud" provider:
- It should offer Gizmo like support to all major devices. So iOS, Blackberry, Android and Windows Phone 7, and Windows clients.
- It should offer dynamic streaming to these devices so streaming adjusts to the bandwidth available.
- It should offer access to the library through web services. This support is there now, but there may be some things still missing.
- It should offer access to the library through a web site. This support is already there as well.
- It should offer access to all these services in an easy to setup, and secure fashion. JR has made some great strides in the ease to setup department, however I would suggest creating a few Wizards to walk end users through setting things up.

MC should also be "cloud" consumer:
- It should have a frame work for easilly writing "drivers" to connect to cloud services that will be offered.

Nice goal, hard to know how to do it.

I expect a great many of these in the near future, so the more the better. It would be ideal if it was something end users could extend...
- It should be able to offer these services to any of MC's clients.

KingSparta

Cloud storage For Performer Store Would Be Nice.

We're limited to what the record labels will allow.

park

adding functionality to Gizmo on the various platforms should be given special attention

I agree.  We see tablets as great remotes, great streaming devices.  We'll try to stay ahead in this area.

vagskal

Integrate online streaming music services in the database. Today users have physical media files on hard drives (and soon in some cloud) as well as access to streaming services but no software that combines them in a seamless way. Let users add albums and songs on Spotify and have them treated in the MC database as if they were physical files (allow tag changes, ratings, play counts etc.).

Nice idea.  We'll do what we can.

Support for iThings.

It's on our short list.  We're limited by what Apple allows.

A versatile statistics/report feature including graphs

Hmm....

marko

Big Things? Raw file development and management. Ability to export to a choice of file types jpg, png tif etc. in a choice of formats for a choice of destinations, flickr, email, local HD etc. etc. which would allow me to bin Lightroom.

I agree these would be nice to have.  I'm not sure there is a broad need yet.  We'll consider it.

Would it be possible to have a client MC using a served library, with merged local records.... that would be pretty big too

Of course it's possible.  Is it necessary?  I need to think about it.

rjm

[Books] I started with all (pdf) books in MC. Then along came mobi/epub and I needed something to manage their metadata so I now use Calibre for epub/mobi and MC for pdf. Then I wanted to search content so I had to introduce another application for indexing and searching. But most search engines do not index epub/mobi so I currently only have content search on pdf. Three different apps plus a search gap is not a stable situation.

[Audiobooks]  MC is perfect for all audiobook tasks except one metadata related thing. I create a local text file and/or links to info about the audiobook such as the plot and reviews. When browsing audiobooks in MC I crave for a feature that would pop up info when I hover or click something.

Lise also wanted playback of notes and that should be possible.

[Video] Not so good for metadata

It's on our list.

MrHaugen

real user based database system

Nice to have but not a broad demand yet.

enable Theater View to be totally skinnable
I've not looked much into skinning my self, because I've gotten the impression that this is not very well supported, and I'm lousy with that XML language or what you call it. So, please correct me if I'm out of line here.

Take a closer look when you have time.

Better support for module skinning. Every part of MC Theater View have to be programmable. Move them where we want, increase/decrease size, change textures, colors etc.

Does XBMC do this?

We have artist images now, so I see no reason why we could not get Series art and Season art (episode would just be standard folder.jpg)

I think I have a complete Theater View setup in my head .....

Maybe spend a few minutes and try to summarize why it is better.  Or add specific suggestions on how Theater View can be improved.

We aren't in the mood to rewrite Theater View.  It's on at least its third rewrite already.  And it works without much trouble with a touchscreen, a mouse, a keyboard, or an MC Remote.  That wasn't easy to do.

TheLion

- Blu-Ray playback - full menu support (make it wife friendly)

Agreed.  If we can, we will

- Picture/Photo viewer - support for color management and HQ scaling algorithms (Lanczos). To make it viable for viewing HiRes/HQ photos from DSLRs and not just snapshots.

I need to understand this one first.

rpalmer68

If the community can help improve/develop Theater View once it's skinnable I think that would be fantastic, as it does lag behind other similar products in my opinion.

It's been skinable for a couple of years, but we haven't seen much interest.

Under improved TV support I would like to suggest that MC start making more efficient use of a tuner by being able to record multiple streams off the one tuner, or at least not use two tuners to record two recordings that are one after the other on the same channel!

[park]

Integrate online streaming music services in the database. Today users have physical media files on hard drives (and soon in some cloud) as well as access to streaming services but no software that combines them in a seamless way. Let users add albums and songs on Spotify and have them treated in the MC database as if they were physical files (allow tag changes, ratings, play counts etc.). Then I might stop buying CDs and downloadable files. I want to collect things and see and handle/enhance what is in _my_ collection, not all the music available on some streaming service.

Support for iThings. Today I would hesitate to buy a software for playback on my home entertainment system that did not have a good iPad app.

A versatile statistics/report feature including graphs.

I agree with this 100%. I requested this myself a year or so ago. Picking songs from an online service and organizing them your own way is something that nobody else is even trying yet. It would be great innovation.

[jmone]

I did this MCModel.JPG up a couple of years ago when Jim was using the play anything, anywhere and anytime motto (or something like that).  So I dug it out again to see how things have changed, and what bits need futher work to support the various elements of the ecosystem:

Content (Docs, Music, Images, Video):  I don't have much to add here as my focus is on Music, and Video though others have had suggestions for better Image and Doc support
Delivery & Consumption (On-Line, Physical Discs, Servers, Portable Devices, OTA):  The obvious ones have been raised including iStuff, WinMo, Blu-ray menu, DVB-C/S
Connectivity:  Again, not much to add as MC works well with the various physical connectivity options
Converter for Format, Time, Place or Device shifting:  This has come a long way but there is still a bunch of stuff missing in achieve the "play anything to anything", examples are:
  - Connected Media (eg Web Radio) --> MC Server --> Clients
  - OTA TV/Radio --> MC Server --> Clients
  - Video Format Conversion (eg like we now get for Audio)
  - Caching on Clients for later playback
  - Bandwidth Profiles for Streaming to clients (eg Movies over the WAN Vs LAN etc)


In Short, MC should be able to acquire any content from any source and transform it to suit the specific consumption requirements any client.

This model excludes the Presentation Layer, to which I would add similar comments to others such as:
  - Meta Data collection, scraping and Mgt for Videos (from playlists, playback ranges etc)...just as you can with music now
  - Meta Data collection, scraping and Mgt for Physical Objects (eg track and manage discs)
  - Blu ray menu
  - EPG Improvements

MC really has come a very long way
Thanks
Nathan

[gvanbrunt]

In reply to Jim's comments on dynamic streaming. Most of the big cloud services today offer that kind of experience. I believe they do the conversion on the fly and if quality drops (the client sends performance data back) it starts a lower quality conversion on another thread and switches to it when enough is buffered. Easy in theory, maybe not in practice...

I have to disagree that there is not much interest in changing Theater View. I see the comment all the time and I see people I recommend MC to go with XBMC instead as it is "prettier".  However I don't think it should be rewritten. I think there should be 2 versions. Keep the existing version which can be customized extensively and quite easily by the average user. Add a second type that works similar to XBMC and allows complex skinning.

I would suggest looking at XBMC an how it does it's skinning. If MC supported that level customization, people would switch in droves. Other than Theater View MC is superior in every way. If you want an example of what is possible download and give XBMC a try. Then you will see why many prefer that for HTPC use.

The other option is to create a "provider" for XBMC so you can view content there. That would give others the option of a more complex skinning experience if they wanted it without as much work. However one thing XBMC does have is better metadata support for movies. This allows for some great visuals using front/back covers etc.

Finally, I to would be willing create a document for JRiver that outlines a detailed plan. It would be how I think skinning could work by looking at MC's current skins, and that of XBMC. I would use my programming knowledge to guesstimate how MC is currently doing things so the plan would take advantage of existing code so less development is necessary. However, I'm only willing to go the lengths necessary to do this if I get some kind of commitment by JRiver that they will seriously consider doing it. From what I've seen up till now, there doesn't seem to be much interest in pursuing it on their part.

BTW I really like the fact that you can create a View in the current Theater view and have it work in all skins. That is not possible with the XBMC style of skinning. That is why I suggested having two front ends...

[rick.ca]

I would suggest looking at XBMC an how it does it's skinning...

I wish someone who understands both programs would take a close look and identify exactly what is so appealing about XBMC—that would be feasible to incorporate into Theatre View. I've tried XBMC several times (including a number of it's more popular skins), and I just don't get it. It seems vastly inferior to MC. That's probably because I value most the ability to configure views for any purpose, present meta data in any manner, and a navigation system that's consistent regardless of how things are configured. I'm not interested in skinning unless it fully supports those characteristics—even if that means foregoing some "prettiness." On the other hand, if there are ways to incorporate some attractive visual aspects of XBMC into the existing Theatre View, those would be worth considering.

Two versions? We can already see the portion of users inclined to make full use of the existing capabilities of Theatre View is rather small. That seems to be learning curve issue, even though the configuration system is not particularly difficult to use. Is it realistic to assume the same users will overcome that barrier and master complex skinning?

This issue will fade somewhat once MC includes an integrated system for adding video meta data. Without a rich set of consistent meta data, the advantages of the Theatre View are difficult to appreciate. Meta data includes images like posters and backdrops that will also make Theatre View more visually appealing. Once MC automatically populates it's video records with meta data, XBMC users will come in droves. Once they're here, maybe they can suggest how to make it prettier.

[JimH]

I've split MrHaugen's post on XBMC since it deserves discussion.  Please use it for XBMC related posts.  Move whatever you would like.  I'll remove the XBMC comments from this thread later.

[JimH]

In reply to Jim's comments on dynamic streaming. Most of the big cloud services today offer that kind of experience. I believe they do the conversion on the fly and if quality drops (the client sends performance data back) it starts a lower quality conversion on another thread and switches to it when enough is buffered. Easy in theory, maybe not in practice...

We expect to add some of this in the next version.  I thought I added bold (meaning that) to your comment.  I'll check.

[JimH]

In Short, MC should be able to acquire any content from any source and transform it to suit the specific consumption requirements any client

That has been our goal for a number of years.  Unfortunately, the universe never stands still.

Thanks for revisiting your old post.  It's nice to see some progress.

[gvanbrunt]

Just to add to the "MC being the center of the universe" comment I think jmones comments better illustrate what I was trying to get accross. MC should consume and offer content from anywhere to any device. A lofty goal for sure, but if JRiver were to offer a framework for consuming content, many of us could add functionality as we please. XBMC does this through something called plug ins. In their terms it is for consuming content.

Of couse the flip side is also true. If there is a framework available for devices, many could write clients. Most of the heavy lifting is already done by JRiver, so I don't think it would be that big of deal to write one. What JRiver needs to do is create this framework when developing Gizmo and whatever device they decide to offer next then "pretend they are a third party" and see if they client can be built 100% from the framework.

If you do this, the community can help up with the growning number of clients.

[MrHaugen]

Good point, gvanbrunt.

The use of plugins or API/frameworks for user development would be a very smart thing. Not only for playback on different devices, but for connections to different services as well. Other media centers does with plug-ins for online Media services like Hulu, Netflix and so on. It would remove a huge amount of work from you guys, if you could get a good plug-in support, API or what ever to support others to develop such integrations. The specter of plugins would probably be much larger as well.

[JimH]

We already offer a lot of ways to access and control MC.  In my opinion, they are underused, so I'm reluctant to extend them at this time.

Theater View skinning is a good example.  MrHaugen, you're spending a lot of time proposing changes, but it appears that you've spent little time investigating the current capabilities.

That said, I would like to assemble a checklist of proposals for the next version of MC, without debating the merits of each here.  Feel free to start new threads.

[JimH]

Better handling of multiple libraries posts were split here:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=66616.0

[Listener]

Some items on my list:

- rich UI for tablets

I'd like to see an iPad/Android tablet interface that could use standard view with view schemes, especially panes rather than just a scaled up Gizmo small screen one-thing-at-a-time interface.  I understand that fingers are much less precise than a mouse pointer for selecting content but I think that a tablet size screen is big enough for a rich user interface.

I understand that a Windows 8 tablet would allow me to run full MC but I think the odds are good that Win 8 tablets will be a dismal failure in the marketplace and be unattractive to MC users like me.

- seamless multi-room operation with MC running on a headless appliance PC

In a few years, I'll be running MC with Library Server on a headless PC that functions as an appliance.  MC will be started when the PC is booted and it should never hang up because of some dialog asking for a user response. (My MusicPC on Win XP can run headless now without automatic updates.) I'll be using other devices to supply the UI for browsing and selecting music and videos:

- a desktop PC running MC with Tremote for playback in my home office

- a laptop running MC / TRemote when I'm already using the laptop in another room.

- a Tablet (iPad/Android/Win running a slimmed down user interface when I sitting in my library or living room and want to listen/watch and surf the web.

I don't see this as a major new development effort but one of carefully streamlining and adapting current MC features. DLNA seems way too complicated now. Tremote seems much more usable now but networking is still too complicated.

- No screwups

If I install MC and get it setup the way I want it, MC should continue to run without any drama indefinitely.  

Last night my wife fired up a VNC client on her PC and started playing music in our home office from my dedicated MusicPC.  When she ran out of ideas, I play music.  After a bit, she played more music.  This is what I want from MC. Jim, you talk about WAF.  Reliable, trouble-free operation is essential if my wife is going to use MC.

Yesterday MC updated itself to 16.0.176 on my personal PC when I clicked on the MC 16 icon.  Today when I started MC 16, it no longer recognized the existence of my permanent library on that PC.  It erased the library files! I can recover but screw-ups like this will make MC unusable for my wife.  

Fortunately for us, I am very careful about the version of MC I use on our dedicated MusicPC.  It is the last version of MC 15.  I was about ready to move to MC 16 on that PC to use the lovely improvement to bi-directional filtering when this bone-head mistake occurred.

Some time back, I protested the automatic updates behavior in MC 16. At that time, Jim dismissed my concerns.  Well, here is an example.  You need to make your product simpler, more reliable and more appliance-like.

Bill

[MrHaugen]

Fair enough Jim. I do think we're taking about quite different things though. Not that it matters much. Some of the most important things is already on the list. I'm like todays kids, you know. Way to demanding.... I'll shut up now, and start making some Theater View illustration and suggestions.

[Jaguu]

One of my favorite novelties im MC16 was the artist image feature. It is amazing how many artists you are listening to (especially in classical music) without ever knowing how they look like. So this was a real revelation.

I would like to have this feature extended to other fields as well:
a. for all person related fields such as composer, conductor, soloist, band, orchestra, actors, directors, people etc.
b. for other fields in general such as events, places, user defined fields

Let's take an example: With the events view I see all those revolving thumbnails of many events, which is also a nice feature, but I still have to read the title of the event. But very often I want a single, specific top thumbnail for a specific event such as "My 2006 holidays in Paris" or "My sister's 50th birthday", kind of an event branding image. This images could either be retrieved automatically from the Internet or set specifically by the user.

With more and more screens in 16:9 or 16:10 format you always get black borders when watching images (mostly still in 4:3 format). It would be nice to be able to split the screen and have the caption infos on the side (left or right) and not over the image. Here some more flexibility in slideshow presentation for large screens would be a real goodie.

[Matt]

A few more to toss out there:

3D image and video playback

64-bit compile

Playback of local content with Gizmo

Web media like Hulu, Netflix, and YouTube through Gizmo and DLNA

Audio engine as a soundcard driver (for use in any program)

User accounts in the library

Integrated image viewing and editing

More 3d accelerated UI in Standard View

[jmone]

Small point I was think about, is it worth MC having an option of grabbing Video Exclusive mode in TheaterView (like with WASAPI) to prevent issues such as madVR's exclusive mode fail etc?

[vagskal]

A few more to toss out there:

3D image and video playback

Bring life to the 3 animated GIFs in my library.

[SamuriHL]

Careful on 64 bit support.  It sounds nice in theory.  But you'll lose madVR and possibly other codecs, as well.  A lot of them do support 64 bit, but, madVR doesn't for sure.

[Hendrik]

Unless any of the operations in MC are actually memory constrained (which i don't really see right now, but i only know/use a fraction of the functionality it offers), i don't see 64bit offering any advantages, TBH.
It sounds good to people that don't know any better, but what else?

[MrHaugen]

I completely agree. 64 bit support is a big waste of time imo. MC will probably never need the address space. The downsides of using 32 or 64 bit Media Center on a 64 bit system is probably so small that nobody would notice anyway.

[Listener]

A few more to toss out there:

My comments in bold.

> 64-bit compile

An internal decision for you. Is it time yet? Can you round up 64 bit versions of all the add-ons you need now? 64 bit codecs and other add-ons will become more available over time.


> Playback of local content with Gizmo

I won't be a user.  Do you mean playback on the phone or playback on the PC running MC?

> Web media like Hulu, Netflix, and YouTube through Gizmo and DLNA

Right now, streaming music services are relevant to me in general.  Video in the future maybe.

> Audio engine as a soundcard driver (for use in any program)

I don't understand this on two levels.  Is there a technical reason you feel it necessary to do this?  Do you see value to JRiver and to its users in routing all PC audio through your audio engine? Do you want to make this MC (virtual) soundcard the default audio output device?

> User accounts in the library

Please keep use of MC simple for those who don't need to use features like this.  The Library server access key feature was a nuisance for quite a while.

> Integrated image viewing and editing

If I can get past the multiple library problem, this would be a big win for me.  I think it would open a new market for JRiver as a tool for photographers.

> More 3d accelerated UI in Standard View

Please don't require use of 3d acceleration in the standard mode UI.

Bill

[TheLion]

A few more to toss out there:

...
Audio engine as a soundcard driver (for use in any program)

...

I beg for this to come true!!! ;-)

[raldo]

Integrated image viewing and editing

I understand the "Integrated viewing" part but the "integrated editing" part sounds like a complete waste of dev time to me. Leave that to photoshop and the likes. These apps would do this better no matter how much time you spend on such features. There will always be requests for more.

Fokus on complete tagging support instead. Images should be on the level with audio in this area. As many users have noted, there are many things which can be improved:
o MS Photo 1.2 face tags.
o Complete EXIF and IPTC one to one relationship with MC tags
o A View for displaying geotags using Bing or Google maps in theater view, preferably simultaneously with the image.

[mojave]

Audio engine as a soundcard driver (for use in any program)

I agree with TheLion. I think this could be a huge feature that allows J River to be a complete front end for all HTPC usage. I also think this could be sold as a standalone product. I've seen many requests in other forums for an easy way to add EQ or other DSP to their existing programs and even things such as games.

[datdude]

I agree with TheLion. I think this could be a huge feature that allows J River to be a complete front end for all HTPC usage. I also think this could be sold as a standalone product. I've seen many requests in other forums for an easy way to add EQ or other DSP to their existing programs and even things such as games.

This would be awesome.  I use Boxee to play pandora on my HTPC (which of course I launch from MC's Theater View :-)) but of course the audio is not in 5.1 surround sound.

[Listener]

I understand the "Integrated viewing" part but the "integrated editing" part sounds like a complete waste of dev time to me. Leave that to photoshop and the likes. These apps would do this better no matter how much time you spend on such features. There will always be requests for more.

I disagree that integrated editing is unnecessary.  I see MC as being like Lightroom rather than Photoshop.  The appeal to me is to use MC to import, tag, select and edit images.  Later I'll use MC to browse my image collection based on the tags I set when I imported the images.

When you take a lot of pictures, workflow for processing a new batch of images becomes important.  Editing is part of that workflow.  A good image manager needs to integrate editing individual images with the browsing and tag editing parts of the workflow.  You might be able to pass an image to an external image editor but you need to control where the image editor stores the editing file and how that file is named.  Navigating from the input file's folder to the desired folder for the edited (output) file.

When have a large collection of images, a good tag database and powerful browsing capabilities become important.  Some image management programs provide free form tagging which might be sufficient for some people.  MC might have a good niche providing a more structured approach to tagging images and browsing the image collection.

Lightroom isn't cheap (~ $300 I think) and I see regular inquiries for cheaper alternatives on photography forums.  The free software I've seen seems incomplete and does not provide image editing.

Bill

[park]

I agree with raldo. Bringing MC anywhere near the level of lightroom for editing would consume a whole version's worth of development time. First and foremost MC is a tagging/ organizing program, and it is in this area that it is most lagging for photos. Better tagging/ better compatibility with the tagging features of other programs (such as lightroom/picasa) would be time better spent imo. 

[JimH]

gvanbrunt posts split to Image Handling

[lalittle]

I understand the "Integrated viewing" part but the "integrated editing" part sounds like a complete waste of dev time to me. Leave that to photoshop and the likes. These apps would do this better no matter how much time you spend on such features. There will always be requests for more.

This is basically what I was thinking.  Image editing is a totally separate market that has a lot of competition, and it would take a ton of resources to compete with the likes of Adobe/Photoshop.  I think that having MC open files with the user's choice of editing program is a wiser approach.

4.  iPod/iPhone sync

This would be really nice (to put it mildly.)

Thanks,

Larry

[jgreen]

Some of JimH's "big pieces" look a lot like feature requests, FWIW.  Here are some of my own big pieces that some may consider too feature-requestlike:

Bettter/more configureable features for Documents, which includes books, which are starting to be read again.  I would love MC to handle my diverse library subscriptions, something Adobe Digital Editions (EPUB) does now.  MC has always worked very well with diverse DRM schemes, and I have no doubt JRiver can figure out how to beat Adobe at their own game.

TV as a "concept":  How can MC help me sit and stare at video where ever I find it (internet, hard drive, OTA, cable), in a way that makes me think I'm just running the channels on my remote?  One minute I may want to watch Laverne and Shirley reruns, the next I might want to watch a yootoob video of a chearleader and a donkey, for example.  JRiver's way out front in this concept already, but I say it's time to step on it til it squeaks!

File handling.  Right now MC categorizes all files into 3 1/2 categories (Audio, Images, Video and sometimes Documents).  In practice, however, the first three represent entertainment functions, while Documents is really just a holding bin for stuff nobody cares about (books, for example).  I think MC ought to subdivide Docs somewhat into more things that are fuctional entertainment categories (for example books).   

[MrHaugen]

I might want to watch a yootoob video of a chearleader and a donkey

Oh yea. "Cheerleader and Donkey". Now we're talking. How about making this a separate category? Oh... You're thinking this is not a "big piece", right? But have this in mind. It is for me and Jgreen!

[gvanbrunt]

Actually "cheerleader and donkey" makes me want to vote for per user security...

[RhinoBanga]

Personally I don't trust "the cloud" and prefer to run my own streaming server (subsonic).   I think you guys should consider doing something similar as I'm sure you'd be able to provide something that blows the competition out of the water.

[Matt]

Personally I don't trust "the cloud" and prefer to run my own streaming server (subsonic).   I think you guys should consider doing something similar as I'm sure you'd be able to provide something that blows the competition out of the water.

Nice to see you around here.

And have you tried Library Server and/or Gizmo?  I think we're ahead of Subsonic, but please provide specifics if there are things lacking for you.