Topic: JRiver Id -- High Quality Audio Hardware (Read 145617 times)

astromo · « **Reply #50 on:** June 03, 2014, 06:58:23 pm »

Quote from: iwf on June 03, 2014, 06:09:31 pm

Just as well, I've got nothing planned for the weekend then !

Pretty good way to spend your weekend. Here's to a smooth experience to all those taking the plunge.

JimH · « **Reply #51 on:** June 04, 2014, 08:07:59 pm »

I put a Kill A Watt in line tonight. This is the picture of energy use. 6.8 watts, playing APE files to my receiver.

Mike48 · « **Reply #52 on:** June 07, 2014, 11:49:02 am »

A couple of questions --

1. It'd be helpful for the Description page to have a head-on photo of the back panel. It's not clear what connectors are there (and therefore, what kind of connections it has). For example, what forms of digital output are there? Coax? HDMI? XLR? Toslink? USB?

2. It's also not clear whether it was designed to work with DLNA control points other than Gizmo and JRemote; say, BubbleUPnP.

Not entirely clear to me how this fits into a typical system (or systems). Is Id in essence a small computer with MC preinstalled? So would fill the role of any other computer running MC?

It's a nice, compact product, and the price is refreshing, in this day of overpriced audio.

JimH · « **Reply #53 on:** June 07, 2014, 12:20:36 pm »

It has HDMI and USB. Connections are listed in the text. There is also a link to Intel information.

Bubble should work. It's standard DLNA, and Bubble works with MC for Windows.

JimH · « **Reply #54 on:** June 11, 2014, 07:14:23 am »

For comparison, my HTPC uses 45 to 50 watts during music playback.

Hilton · « **Reply #55 on:** June 11, 2014, 07:23:37 pm »

Id safely arrived down under in Australia! Thanks Jim!
I'll have some fun tonight!

Hilton · « **Reply #56 on:** June 12, 2014, 10:43:17 am »

Well I had a good play with the Id tonight and was pretty impressed.

I got it going pretty quickly. I changed my default output formats in GUI mode, saved with option 4 and then rebooted in text mode with HDMI initialised and everything worked.

The updated to MC19 19.x.138 today worked as it should.

It works with all file formats I gave it, including SACD ISO 2ch and 6ch converted to PCM 96/24.

Worked well with 2ch 192/24 Flac and 6ch 96/24 Flac also.

Worked well with JRemote as my remote and my MS Surface Pro 2 with MC19 as remote, with my HTPC Server library loaded locally on it and streaming via HDMI to my amp.

Worked well with external FiiO E17 USB DAC at all bit rates up to 96/24. (its a class 1 driverless DAC) (working after making some minor config changes under the GUI mode).

I rebooted into USB DAC mode in text mode from my HDMI mode and it didn't work first time, I had to go into GUI mode and set up the device setting to use the e17 DAC which appeared in the menu and then the DAC worked but only @ 48/16 at first, and it was also transcoding everything to 320K MP3.

By default it was decoding to mp3 320K to the USB DAC, I had to change the defaults in client options in GUI mode to convert if necessary and that stopped it converting - at least I think that's the setting that fixed it!

I couldn't get it to play SACD as a renderer from JRemote or another MC19 player (maybe that's an intentional/design limitation?) It would only play SACD ISO locally from my HTPC loaded library. It seemed to be converting SACD to WAV (with silence and no sound) from the source when trying to playback as a renderer controlled from another player.

I saved my USB DAC settings with option 4 and then rebooted back into HDMI GUI mode and it defaulted back to the onboard audio device instead of the HDMI audio device. I had to go back into the audio options and reset it to HDMI and it also lost all my previously saved Output Format settings. It would be good if it could save DAC settings with Output Formats and HDMI settings with its own Output Formats.

I guess it might be possible to just setup another zone on it with the USB DAC save it and then switch between zones from the remote and then I wouldn't have to reboot between DAC and HDMI mode. (does it support multiple local zones?)

I added my room correction and parametric EQ from my HTPC and it sounded the same which is good! Though I think it was struggling with processing and giving an occasional glitch with room correction activated. (just bass redirection for the sub)

All up it worked very well for an early launched product and I'm pretty impressed.

I'll take some video of it with a gopro and post on youtube tomorrow night!

JimH · « **Reply #57 on:** June 12, 2014, 10:48:09 am »

Thanks for the nice report. It will give Bob a boost, which he well deserves.

He and Hendrik found a way to get the GUI to work much more smoothly, so that the window doesn't jump around when you move it. Should be available as an update soon.

bob · « **Reply #58 on:** June 12, 2014, 04:47:59 pm »

An update is available for the Id. It simplifies the menu and does away with the presets.

It should preserve your license, and if you are already in the user preset, keep your settings.

There is a possibility that you may have to restore your settings from the menu to get licensing back if the Id thinks it's gone, in this case you'll lose the User settings and will have to redo them.

JimH · « **Reply #59 on:** June 12, 2014, 04:52:23 pm »

Quote from: bob on June 12, 2014, 04:47:59 pm

There will be an update in an hour or so available for the Id.
It will change how the Main menu looks (much simplified) and do away with the presets.

The menu is shown in the Installation Guide here:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Id_Install_Guide

Hilton · « **Reply #60 on:** June 12, 2014, 09:36:23 pm »

BTW mine is working fine on port 8888.

My wish list.

Working BT keyboard and mouse support. Extra bonus points for BT audio streaming.
Working Wifi for joining networks or running its own DHCP for stand alone wireless networking. (like my Seagate wireless plus which also runs debian.)

JimH · « **Reply #61 on:** June 12, 2014, 10:15:17 pm »

Logitech wireless keyboards and mice work.

Hilton · « **Reply #62 on:** June 12, 2014, 11:32:14 pm »

Thanks Jim Is that 2.4G wireless USB dongle keyboard and mouse or BT key/mouse?

Hilton · « **Reply #63 on:** June 13, 2014, 05:11:10 am »

Nice surprise to see wireless networking working great job!

JimH · « **Reply #64 on:** June 13, 2014, 07:16:13 am »

Wireless 2.4, for keyboard. This one, for example:
http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Wireless-Keyboard-Built-In-Multi-Touch/dp/B005DKZTMG/

JimH · « **Reply #65 on:** June 13, 2014, 07:19:28 am »

Quote from: Hiltonk on June 13, 2014, 05:11:10 am

Nice surprise to see wireless networking working great job!

It's not wireless Ethernet. You can't connect your computer with the Id wirelessly yet.

Hilton · « **Reply #66 on:** June 13, 2014, 07:38:13 am »

Quote from: JimH on June 13, 2014, 07:19:28 am

It's not wireless Ethernet. You can't connect your computer with the Id wirelessly yet.

Yes you can now. Theres a new right click on desktop that brings up the wireless settings in GUI mode. I have the Id connecting to my home network via 2.4Ghz Wireless network! It also connects to my Seagate wireless 1TB drive which has built in DLNA server ands DHCP server!

. I didn't notice it last night so I think its new in 19.0.139. Works perfectly!

JimH · « **Reply #67 on:** June 13, 2014, 08:09:34 am »

No way! That's good news. Last time I tried, it didn't work.

Hilton · « **Reply #68 on:** June 13, 2014, 08:50:00 am »

Quote from: JimH on June 13, 2014, 08:09:34 am

No way! That's good news. Last time I tried, it didn't work.

Here's a quick YouTube video of it in action.
http://youtu.be/SsUqARhxrc0

JimH · « **Reply #69 on:** June 13, 2014, 09:07:26 am »

Thanks for doing that.

It's an Id, as in hid, mid, bid, Sid, by the way, not an I.D, as in identification.

Hilton · « **Reply #70 on:** June 13, 2014, 10:33:52 am »

Wireless isn't without its problems. After a reboot once I've had to reset wireless settings. In the Id Wicd App Under the wireless settings for the network I'm connecting to, I had to switch between WPA1/2 Hex and WPA1/2 Passphrase and back again to pick up the other DLNA renderers and servers. It works reliably once its up though.

PS. And wireless network continues to work in text mode after rebooting from GUI mode!

iwf · « **Reply #71 on:** June 13, 2014, 01:34:12 pm »

Mine's still stuck in UK customs:)

But anyone have any view on sound quality?

bob · « **Reply #72 on:** June 13, 2014, 02:16:05 pm »

The first batch of Id's have Intel's bios version 32 on them. Updating to 34 may help with some wireless connectivity issues. There is a blurb about that in the bios release notes.
The update page is here:
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/Detail_Desc.aspx?agr=Y&ProdId=3782&DwnldID=23879&ProductFamily=Desktop+Boards&ProductLine=Intel%C2%AE+NUC+Boards+and+Kits&ProductProduct=Intel%C2%AE+NUC+Kit+DN2820FYKH&lang=eng

I've just been using the raw bios update file FY0034.BIO on a gpt formatted usb stick and the bios update command.

bblue · « **Reply #73 on:** June 13, 2014, 06:06:58 pm »

Quote from: iwf on June 13, 2014, 01:34:12 pm

Mine's still stuck in UK customs:)

But anyone have any view on sound quality?

My experience so far is that it is limited only by the DAC or output device it connects to. There's no particular audio coloration or alteration of its own.

I can't say I'm totally enamored by the Audioquest Mosquito (I only bought one because that's all the Id was said to work with right now), but it's not bad for the price. The Mosquito does take a few days of operation to 'settle in'. Before then it's downright horrid sounding.

As Id system drivers get added to use direct output DAC's with their digital or higher quality analog outputs you'll realize its full capabilities. It seems to be on par any other MC, which is to say, quite excellent.

--Bill

JimH · « **Reply #74 on:** June 13, 2014, 06:32:56 pm »

With the latest update installed, you should be able to select your USB audio device.

http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Id_Audio_Devices

It may take a little trial and error.

Hilton · « **Reply #75 on:** June 13, 2014, 07:56:57 pm »

The Id should work with any driverless class 1 USB DAC. That means most DACs that go above 96k won't work because they're classified as class 2 DACs and need drivers. Some of the class 2 DACs will work in legacy mode without drivers upto 96k if they're backwards compatible. The Matrix USB to SPDIF should also work, I've got one on the way to use with my FiiO E17 DAC so I'll let you know.

6233638 · « **Reply #76 on:** June 13, 2014, 08:52:03 pm »

Quote from: Hiltonk on June 13, 2014, 07:56:57 pm

The Id should work with any driverless class 1 USB DAC. That means most DACs that go above 96k won't work because they're classified as class 2 DACs and need drivers.

I was under the impression that this was a Windows limitation, and that both OS X and Linux have native UAC2 support.
Certainly, when I plug my DAC into a Mac in UAC2 mode it just works, without having to install any drivers.

Hilton · « **Reply #77 on:** June 13, 2014, 10:27:04 pm »

It depends on the wheezy kernel version being used. But you're right. It might work off the bat with class 2 DACs too.

daveman · « **Reply #78 on:** June 15, 2014, 05:44:06 pm »

I know the Id is for audio but will it also allow streaming of video?

dave

JimH · « **Reply #79 on:** June 15, 2014, 06:28:21 pm »

Maybe some day. It may take a higher power CPU. It will take a lot of work on MC to do it on Linux, and we have started working on it now.

daveman · « **Reply #80 on:** June 15, 2014, 06:41:37 pm »

The minute it works with video, count me in on an order

dave

Hilton · « **Reply #81 on:** June 16, 2014, 02:21:10 am »

Hi Jim, Bob and MC users!

The Id works in my car running off a 12V cigarette lighter power cable running straight into the back.
I've been able to use it as a DLNA controller, as a man in the middle for JRemote rendering on the iPhone and my Seagate Wireless Plus 1TB running as a DLNA server.
Just as I had hoped I can now use JRiver in the car with my wireless 1TB storage using iPhone/JRemote to stream Bluetooth to my cars headunit with full AVRCP BT control from the steering wheel or headunit.

Id3 text displays on the headunit, driver instrument cluster and of course JRemote. I can skip, forward etc from the steering wheel or the headunit. (that's what AVRCP does on BT with compatible BT receivers)

Previously to use JRemote in the car I had to stream over 4G from my home server which chews up the data-plan pretty quickly!
Previously I also had to use 8player in the car to play FLAC back on the iPhone from the wireless Seagate.

Because JRemote caches database and images locally from the server its much nicer to navigate and use compared to 8Player, it's much faster for starters, and works much better than the clunky Seagate media app on the iPhone (which doesn't support FLAC).

This is especially important in the car when you have to keep your attention on driving!

I'll take some video when I have some more time!

PS. A simpler way of achieving this would be to replace the Id internal disk with a bigger 1TB SSD ($500) or even larger 2TB spinny disk ($250).

astromo · « **Reply #82 on:** June 16, 2014, 03:50:28 am »

Quote from: JimH on June 15, 2014, 06:28:21 pm

Maybe some day. It may take a higher power CPU. It will take a lot of work on MC to do it on Linux, and we have started working on it now.

That's the kind of news I like to read. Good stuff.

Quote from: Hiltonk on June 16, 2014, 02:21:10 am

Hi Jim, Bob and MC users!

The Id works in my car running off a 12V cigarette lighter power cable running straight into the back.

Way cool.

JimH · « **Reply #83 on:** June 16, 2014, 06:37:18 am »

Quote from: Hiltonk on June 16, 2014, 02:21:10 am

The Id works in my car running off a 12V cigarette lighter power cable running straight into the back.

Great post. Incredible news! Thanks.

I've been watching SSD prices and thinking along similar lines.

JimH · « **Reply #84 on:** June 16, 2014, 08:58:46 am »

Quote from: Hiltonk on June 16, 2014, 02:21:10 am

The Id works in my car running off a 12V cigarette lighter power cable running straight into the back.

Did you make the cable?

Quote

I've been able to use it as a DLNA controller, as a man in the middle for JRemote rendering on the iPhone and my Seagate Wireless Plus 1TB running as a DLNA server.
Just as I had hoped I can now use JRiver in the car with my wireless 1TB storage using iPhone/JRemote to stream Bluetooth to my cars headunit with full AVRCP BT control from the steering wheel or headunit.

Id3 text displays on the headunit, driver instrument cluster and of course JRemote. I can skip, forward etc from the steering wheel or the headunit. (that's what AVRCP does on BT with compatible BT receivers)

So you're controlling JRemote (not MC) using Bluetooth?

Hilton · « **Reply #85 on:** June 16, 2014, 09:48:17 am »

No I bought a cable with a 5mm socket already on the other end. Yes JRemote is being controlled by BT in the car. Need AVRCP compatible BT car kit to control with BT and get id3 text on the car radio.

bob · « **Reply #86 on:** June 16, 2014, 10:42:38 am »

Quote from: Hiltonk on June 13, 2014, 10:27:04 pm

It depends on the wheezy kernel version being used. But you're right. It might work off the bat with class 2 DACs too.

3.14

Hilton · « **Reply #87 on:** June 16, 2014, 10:53:31 am »

On 3.14 UAC2 DACs are supported out of the box. Well most of them anyway. There are some that don't strictly adhere to the UAC2 standard which may still need drivers though.

mojave · « **Reply #88 on:** June 16, 2014, 11:02:26 am »

Quote from: bob on June 16, 2014, 10:42:38 am

3.14

Id PI

Nice ambigram.

iwf · « **Reply #89 on:** June 16, 2014, 01:04:51 pm »

And still mine is stuck with UK customs, well parcelforce actually. And I'm missing all the fun.

Still delivery is promised for tomorrow

I'm sailing in a couple of months time. I'll take my id with me. MC, going boldly where no media centre has been before!

Hilton · « **Reply #90 on:** June 17, 2014, 05:46:15 am »

I'll be posting a demo of the Id running in the car shortly.

Showing setup for headless wireless operation;
- Using Id as headless DLNA controller on JRiver MC 19.0.141 on Intel bios 34
- Using Seagate Wireless Plus 1TB drive (on firmware 2.3.0.14 running miniDLNA server that it comes setup with)
- Using iPhone5S with JRemote 3.01 streaming from Id to BT car kit with full AVRCP text/control and stereo BT Audio. (via the iPhone)

Video converted from GoPro Hero3+ black @1080P50 to Youtube.

.................

http://youtu.be/6HFUq7QgnvQ

JimH · « **Reply #91 on:** June 17, 2014, 06:49:44 am »

Hilton,
You're amazing! Thanks.

Hilton · « **Reply #92 on:** June 17, 2014, 07:04:05 am »

No worries mate!

I'm enjoying my new toy immensely!

I tried putting the html tags exactly like that but it wouldn't work for me. I probably don't have permission to add html code.

Video finished processing!

I guess while that's still processing I should explain a little more about how it actually works.

I tried creating an Adhoc network with the Id but I'm not sure that functionality is working yet. The configuration settings are there for it, but they either don't work, or I need a bit more help getting it going.
In any case.... You need to create an adhoc network for stand alone wireless use of the Id when you don't have a wireless access point handy, and that's where the Seagate Wireless Plus comes in handy for portable use.

The Seagate runs its own DHCP server and also acts as a wireless router.
I load up all the music on to the Seagate by connecting it on USB3 and using a JRiver MC19 portable device profile, to convert and sync media to the drive.
When that's done I disconnect it from the computer and the drive starts up in wireless mode.
It does its thing scanning for a while when you first go into wireless mode after a sync with the computer. (it can be hours before it finishing indexing depending on how much you put on it)
I then connect the iPhone wirelessly to the Seagate wireless network, and also connected the Id to the Seagate wireless network.
Once that's done it takes a few minutes for the Seagate DLNA server to show up, I can then mount that library off the Seagate onto the Id, fire up JRemote and configure it with the Id's assigned IP address. (I looked up its IP with the Seagate media app on the iPhone.)

Once JRemote is connecting I rebooted the Id into headless mode. It remembers the settings I set and defaults to the last library on reboot.
I then simply plugged it into the car, waited a minute or 2 and it just came up connected to the Seagate automatically and JRemote picked up from where it was.
This has been consistently repeatable!

My only wish now is to get a web browser interface to change libraries like you setup in the last update, to change audio devices in headless mode.

PS. When I need internet access while in the car I use a portable rechargeable 4G wireless access point, but to keep it simple for the demo I didn't use it. When you use the Seagate as the wireless router you loose internet connectivity on the iPhone, using the portable 4G modem/AP gets around this limitation. I need to set the 4G modem as an auto connect option on Id so if it's turned on the Id will connect to it instead of the Seagate, and the Seagate then connects to the 4G modem too. There's no data going in/out on the 4G network unless Im using the iPhone for maps or internet/email stuff, Its just acting as a portable Access Point and can handle up to 10 networked devices. I use it for my Surface Pro 2 tablet which doesn't have 4G built in.

I just thought of another way to use the iPhone as the access point in personal hotspot mode but it requires setting it up from the computer first so that the Seagate will default to connecting to the iPhone and so the Id also defaults to the iPhone. That should do away with the need for another separate device and enable wireless routing and internet from the iPhone simultaneously.

JimH · « **Reply #93 on:** June 17, 2014, 08:50:07 am »

Great video! Thanks! It's fun to watch someone who can walk and chew gum at the same time.

Hilton · « **Reply #94 on:** June 17, 2014, 08:57:05 am »

Quote from: JimH on June 17, 2014, 08:50:07 am

Great video! Thanks! It's fun to watch someone who can walk and chew gum at the same time.

No worries it was fun.

Not sure if "chewing gum" is a saying in the US or you think I was chewing gum. My guess is it means "walk and talk" ?? (I wasn't chewing gum BTW)

JimH · « **Reply #95 on:** June 17, 2014, 11:52:03 am »

I just tested an Id as a Handheld in MC. It works. Just add the device, browse to the network path and save it. I chose to encode everything to MP3, just to test.

It worked perfectly.

balky · « **Reply #96 on:** June 18, 2014, 05:14:10 am »

I tired to purchase the Id on the link below yesterday

[removed]

When looking at the pricing on the wiki page and what I paid yesterday, I am now completely confused and not sure anymore what I paid for...

Can someone kindly confirm if I have bought the right equipment or not?

Hilton · « **Reply #97 on:** June 18, 2014, 05:19:31 am »

Ok... The good news is the Id will tether with the iPhone wirelessly in headless mode in the car. (as long as I set it up in GUI mode first so it defaults to the iPhone Personal Hotspot).
This allows me to play whatever's stored on the Id internal library, to the iPhone, and then stream it via BT to the car, just like in the demo I did yesterday. Using it this way I can still use the phone for navigation, internet etc and access the Id at the same time.

The bad news.. and its no fault of the Id, is that the Seagate Wireless wont tether with the iPhone in personal hotspot mode, which means I cant use it in this mode with the Id.
If I want to use the Seagate and have internet access while in the car I have to use my portable 4G router as I mentioned above.

Its not all bad though, I'll get a 1TB SSD and do an upgrade on the Id to keep it simple for iPhone tethering with the Id. Might have to get some assistance from Bob on that one to do the upgrade!

If I wanted to get really silly with it. (after all a 1TB SSD is a bit of overkill isn't it!) I can also use the Id with the iPhone as a controller and use the Id with the E17DAC in the car with line-out from the E17DAC into my line-in on my car headunit.
The line-in socket happens to be in the centre arm rest where I put the Id when Im in the car.
Doing this is somewhat overkill in a noisey car environment, but it means I could listen to 96k/24 bit-perfect via analogue rather than compressing it via BT streaming on the iPhone. (the BT streaming quality is actually very good with my BT kit and doesn't sound raspy or compressed like others i've heard)

The Seagate Hybrid 1TB SSHD (ST1000LM014) might be a good option for $129. The hybrid drive has 8Gb Nand flash for a fast booting Id with huge capacity.

Thoughts Bob?

JimH · « **Reply #98 on:** June 18, 2014, 05:30:56 am »

Quote from: balky on June 18, 2014, 05:14:10 am

I tired to purchase the Id on the link below yesterday

[removed]

When looking at the pricing on the wiki page and what I paid yesterday, I am now completely confused and not sure anymore what I paid for...

Can someone kindly confirm if I have bought the right equipment or not?

That was an old link. The price is $295 plus shipping, at this time.

balky · « **Reply #99 on:** June 18, 2014, 05:35:42 am »

Are you able to reject the order and refund?

Thanks,

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Author Topic: JRiver Id -- High Quality Audio Hardware (Read 145617 times)