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[balky]

Thanks,

I'm really sorry about the misunderstanding as well...

I wanted to avoid having to install Linux and doing the setup by myself, but as I need at least three units, the total cost (although the pricing is very good) is holding me back...

I will try the Linux version soon and get back to buy a permanent license of all works like I am dreaming of,

Thanks once more,

[Hilton]

Just a quick follow up on my in-car experience with the JRiver Id.

Today I added a small cheap $40 DC-DC converter to clean up and filter the power going to the Id from the 12v cigarette lighter adapter.
The Id (NUC) is particular sensitive to over voltage and noisy power and would sometimes just turn off to protect itself, particularly when starting the car.
Car power systems vary from 10v to 14.8v and the built in Id power supply protection is a little fussy about its power source.

The converter I bought converts voltage source between 12v and 24V down to 1.5, 3, 7.5, 9 and 12v but only down to 9v from 12v and it does some filtering on the power as well.
The Id seems to be happy and stable with the regulated 9V supply voltage and hasn't shutdown on me since I put the dc-dc adapter in.
I'll post a couple pics later.

[bob]

There is an update to the Id MC which you can get by choosing updates on the device.
It should put to rest the problem of the registration getting undone.
You may have to restore settings (77) once to get back your registration if it's not there after you update.
This release also has more fine-grained control over the HDMI screen sleep and integrates DPMS control.

[bblue]

Hi Bob,

Per our PM, I installed this update yesterday afternoon with no problem and no licensing issues.  It came up with an existing playlist still active (from a previous DLNA) render and I hit play to let it continue.  Sometime after midnight that night (this morning) the system crashed.  See attached.  You can't see it in the picture due to white crush, but it was in mid-song playback (flac) of song 15 / 23 in the playlist.  I'm sure in the time it was up it had repeated that playlist a number of times (it's in repeat).

--Bill

[bob]

Hi Bob,

Per our PM, I installed this update yesterday afternoon with no problem and no licensing issues.  It came up with an existing playlist still active (from a previous DLNA) render and I hit play to let it continue.  Sometime after midnight that night (this morning) the system crashed.  See attached.  You can't see it in the picture due to white crush, but it was in mid-song playback (flac) of song 15 / 23 in the playlist.  I'm sure in the time it was up it had repeated that playlist a number of times (it's in repeat).

--Bill

I think we need to get a memtest into that boot menu. If you were feeling like it you could use memtest86 on a usb stick.

[bob]

There is an update available, MC only that should finally take care of the registration issues for those that switch between ethernet and wifi.

[Hilton]

Great stuff Bob.

I got External USB drives auto-mounting and un-mounting now.  



I've passed my code on to bob to tidyup or use as ideas for his own work. Good luck bob!

-------------

I got my 2 TB portable drive and every other usb drive I've got working (including a 12TB USB RAID array with hardware raid)
The drives automount / unmount with a script I made when you plug them or unplug them in both the gui and text modes.  

Any USB drive should work though I've only tested it extensively with ntfs partitions on several USB drives. Bob was already working on something so hopefully this will speed up the formal release.

It all works really great!

I can switch from text to gui and back, unplug and replug and it works every time now.
Edit: this is fixed now - must have been a problem related to "dirty shutdown" problem Bob's working on - The only thing I haven't done yet; if the usb is already plugged in during boot it wont mount until you unplug and replug it in.
Im sure Bob will work that one out.

Another useful tool I added which might be handy from the Id text menu is wicd-curses that gives you wifi and network control in text menu from a terminal window so you don't have to boot into gui to see whats happening with the network. You can stop/start/join see signal strength etc in a text menu reminiscent of old Norton commander. Hopefully Bob will have a look at adding that one in too because its just a small add-on to the existing network tool already being used.

Cheers
Hilton

PS: it even handles multiple usb drives on different usb ports and usb flash drives.

[Hilton]

I got A2DP stereo headset profile Bluetooth audio working tonight with my Jaybird Bluebuds X Bluetooth headphones.
Still working on the iPhone which is a bit more temperamental.

Im on a roll!

Screenshots to come.

[JimH]

I'm sailing in a couple of months time.  I'll take my id with me.  MC, going boldly where no media centre has been before!

I just noticed this.  Sailing as in boat?  Any pictures?  Destination?

[Hilton]

I've given the Id a good workout over the weekend.

I have a few observations now that I have all my music on it in original formats. That's about 19000 tracks (~500GB) in a mixture of MP3, M4A, FLAC 2ch/6ch, APE, SACD ISO, AC3 and Wave DTS Audio. (modified - ~100GB usable standard for internal storage - External USB storage support is coming)


1. The Id Rocks. (standard feature)

2. It plays all formats locally just great. (standard feature)

3. SACD, APE, AC3 and DTS wont stream to JRemote, but that's a limitation of JRemote decoding. (standard feature)
 
4. Even my 6ch Flac files stream to JRemote and down convert to 2ch. (standard feature)

5. It changes bit rates and sample rates without skipping a beat. (standard feature)

6. Some of my larger playlists over 3-4000 tracks time out in JRemote sometimes when trying to load. (bug? JRemote issues not sure?)

7. Tethering with iPhone using personal hotspot works great, it even re-connects by itself if the network drops. (standard feature)

8. I've been able to use it in headless mode for 2 days in the car without a single problem. (standard feature - with a 12v dc cigarette adapter and power filter)

9. Streaming to the iPhone on JRemote in 24bit 96k plays bit-perfect through my E17 DAC/AMP connected to the iPhone. (enjoyed a long 3hr session listening with HD600s and it was wonderful!) (standard feature)

10. I used the GUI quite extensively for about 4 hours and didn't have a single crash. I was retagging music, and setting up all my standard smart playlists. (standard feature)

11. Im running Xfce4 desktop which I prefer over the default fluxbox. (which I needed for some of the add-ons im using like BT Audio etc) (modified)

12. I worked out how to change libraries with MCC commands from a web browser without a monitor attached. (standard feature) (would be good to add that to the standard web view Bob/Matt like you did with audio device change, as its a portable device, it has more scope for changing libraries compared to a machine that stays at home)

12. At this point you could say my Id isn't exactly a standard Id anymore. I've only made a few small changes though and it's still working fantastically.

My Mods include USB support, BT Audio support, Network configuration from text menu, upgraded desktop, but all other features are standard.

Would you like some screen shots and more video of it in action?  

[JimH]

Yes, please.  Thanks again for all your Id love.

A word of caution for others reading.  We don't expect the Id to be customizable.  If customization is needed, please consider building your own device, using the standard Linux version of MC.  It's not for the faint of heart.

[Hilton]

Yes, please.  Thanks again for all your Id love.

A word of caution for others reading.  We don't expect the Id to be customizable.  If customization is needed, please consider building your own device, using the standard Linux version of MC.  It's not for the faint of heart.

Yes that's a good point, this kind of customisation isn't for the faint of heart, but some of these ideas will eventually work their way into the standard Id so people don't have to go through that learning curve.

[Hilton]

Teaser pics of the Id setup for a video demo.  More to come tomorrow.

[JimH]

I don't see any beer cartons.

[Hilton]

I don't see any beer cartons.

Don't drink much on school nights, bad enough that I'm staying up to till 2am tinkering!  The coffee machine gets a good workout though!

I worked out how to get adhoc networking going in the Id, so you can use it in a stand-alone environment without routers.  

This way you can take the Id away with you and just connect any wifi enabled device to it to control it or stream music on to a JRiver, JRemote or Gizmo device.
That too is standard functionality out of the box that Bob's built in that just hasn't been explored yet. I'll go into it in one of my demo videos.

You guys will have noticed I have it working well in the car, I'll also be taking the Id away on trips and holidays to plugin with HDMI or the mini-plug for music playback and streaming to kids iPhones, Androids and tablets. When it does video, it will be my portable video player too!  My daughter will be able to listen to whatever she wants in the car. I don't have to listen to the wiggles anymore and stuff around with limited storage of the iPad!

Mobile car use as a music/video server... there's a whole new market for you that you can also cross sell to the desktop MC19.

I can see it now.... "Built-in JRiver Id car kit"

[JimH]

It did occur to me, once you had yours going in your car. 

[jnahman]

I am somewhat new to this stuff and as such, have newbie questions. Basically, what are the advantages of having the Id vs using the laptop to drive my external hard drive with my rips on it? Any help or expanded answers in general are greatly appreciated.

[bob]

MC updated to 19.0.146 for the Id. Just run the update function. It adds the auto-import fix for it's network share.

There is a rather large update, mostly internal stuff coming soon. I'll give a notice when it's ready.

[JimH]

The update worked fine for me.

[steelydave]

I got my Id a couple of weeks ago but finally got a chance to test it properly this evening.

The purchasing experience was one of my best online experiences, both Jim and especially Deanna were incredibly helpful and friendly and made getting the box here to Canada as quick and painless as possible.

The NUC boxes are really sexy looking - perhaps you could have the JRiver logo etched in to the plexiglass top once you go in to full production mode.

Right out of the box, I had issues.  When I turned the Id on, I was greeted with an error:

'PXE-E53: No boot filename received

PXE-M0F: Exiting PXE ROM.

Reboot and Select proper Boot device
or Insert Boot Media in selected Boot device and press a key'

I reread the installation instructions 3 more times just to make sure I wasn't being a techno dunce, and then did some googling and came to the conclusion there was some issue with the SSD drive.  I decided to open the bottom of the Id and sure enough, the problem was evident.  The SSD drive hadn't been screwed in to the mounting bezel and had (presumably) disconnected from the SATA port during shipping.  I'm not sure if this was a conscious choice or just an oversight because of the production rush, but you may want to look in to it. Once I pushed the SSD drive back in to it's slot, everything booted up just as it should.

My purpose for buying the Id was to play back my collection of high resolution music, which is primarily multichannel. All my PCM-based material has been ripped from disc to FLAC, and SACDs ripped to ISO using a modified PS3. I'm currently using a Popcorn Hour A300 for playback, but the GUI on it leaves a lot to be desired, and it doesn't handle DSD files at all.  I have no need at the moment for any of the higher-level functions of the Id (streaming, etc.) all I want to do is to hook it up to my AVR (Denon 1910) via HDMI and have the GUI onscreen while I'm playing back music.

I figured I would copy a few different types of files to the internal SSD drive on the Id to test playback, to eliminate as many variables as possible.  I copied a stereo/5.1 SACD ISO, DSF and DFF tracks extracted from the same SACD ISO, 5.1 24/96 FLAC files, 4.0 (Quadraphonic) 24/96 FLAC files, and stereo 24/96 FLAC files. After playing through the various files, a couple of major problems seem to have cropped up:

1) The channel assignments for 5.1 playback seem to be wrong.  I noticed it almost immediately when lead vocals were coming out of one of the rear speakers, so I downloaded a 5.1 channel check FLAC file from the Linn Records website and it confirmed my findings.  This is what I'm getting:

FLAC FILE   SPEAKER
FL                 FL
FR                 FR
RL                 C
RR                LFE
C                  RL
LFE               RR


So basically the Centre and LFE channels on the FLAC file come out of the rear left and rear right speakers, respectively, and vice-versa.  This seems to hold true for both PCM and DSD sources.

Strangely, my 4 channel FLACs seemed to play back properly, so it doesn't seem like a simple channel assignment mismatch.  If it was just that, channels 3 & 4 (rear left and rear right) of a 4 channel flac should be coming out of the centre speaker and subwoofer like they were on the 5.1 FLAC. I'm not sure why it's doing this because MC19 on my laptop via HDMI to my amp handles the same files just fine.

2) DSD playback, or more accurately DSD to PCM conversion.  My amp doesn't handle DSD (or DoP) so the Id has to the conversion from DSD to PCM and I don't think it has enough horsepower.  5.1 and stereo DSD go in to a cycle of repeatedly stuttering and then buffering, and the same behaviour occurs both from the ISO file and the extracted dsf and dff files.  It seems that in retrospect, I extrapolated (possibly incorrectly) from JimH's early comments that the Id could play DSD files, and that the Id could play multichannel files, that it would be able to handle anything I threw at it.  Having done some googling after the stuttering became evident, it now seems that the benchmark of the Id isn't nearly high enough to do the DSD to PCM conversion.  Am I correct in thinking this?


So at the moment I'm left with a device I really really want to like (and I love MC19 like everyone here, I assume) but between the multichannel outputs being swapped and it not being able to convert DSD to PCM, it seems like it's effectively useless for me.  Can I get a refund if that's the case?

[JimH]

You can certainly return the Id within 30 days for a full refund.

The channel mapping should be right.  If you're using a test file, perhaps you could share a link. 

The Id may not handle real time DSD conversion.  A more powerful CPU may be needed.  You could convert a few files in advance to test.

[Hendrik]

2) DSD playback, or more accurately DSD to PCM conversion.  My amp doesn't handle DSD (or DoP) so the Id has to the conversion from DSD to PCM and I don't think it has enough horsepower.  5.1 and stereo DSD go in to a cycle of repeatedly stuttering and then buffering

I've personally tested Stereo DSD64 playback on the Id, and it did manage that just fine.
I'm not sure about multi-channel, I'll have to dig up a file again.

Do you know if your SACD/DSF uses DST compression? That may push the CPU requirement up quite a bit.
If it does simply exceed its raw performance, there isn't much we can do about that, except try to make the conversion faster, but that only works up to a point.

Regarding the channel order, I'll double check. What kind of audio device are you using? USB DAC? HDMI?
If there is something wrong with the multichannel out, we'll get it fixed definitely.

[dees_74]

Can the Id be used as a stand alone with no other pc? I am envisioning using the Id with a usb hard drive and  nothing else. Is that possible?

[JimH]

It's possible to run the Id by itself.  It currently doesn't support a USB drive, but it has enough open space on the drive to store about 300 CD's at lossless quality.

The Id runs Samba, so it shows up on a network as a drive you can copy files to.  MC will then auto-import the files.

[6233638]

Do you know if your SACD/DSF uses DST compression? That may push the CPU requirement up quite a bit.
If it does simply exceed its raw performance, there isn't much we can do about that, except try to make the conversion faster, but that only works up to a point.

Multichannel DSD requires DST compression, so unless it has been removed through conversion from ISO/DFF to DSF (which does not support DST compression) it's very likely due to the CPU in the id not being up to the task.
Even if you have a multichannel DSD DAC, where Media Center is only removing the DST compression without converting to PCM, I doubt the id could handle it.

I would probably recommend offline conversion to PCM if you're wanting to use the id for multichannel SACD playback.

[bob]

There is an update for MC available that fixes the incorrect multichannel output mapping. Tested on HDMI.

[Hilton]

Multichannel DSD requires more CPU power than the Id can muster. 2ch DSD is fine though. If you convert to multichannel PCM first on another PC it will playback multichannel just fine. ( as suggested above)

[bob]

I was referring to the channel mapping of any multichannel material to the ALSA device, it was incorrect previously.

[Hilton]

Thanks Bob yes I got that, I noticed it too when doing some multi channel testing but have had the problem before in windows MC19 and a reboot fixed it, so I just dismissed it.  Glad its been picked up and fixed though.   I was referring to the CPU capability to decode multichannel DSD, the Id CPU sits above 85% peaking to 98% so it just runs out of puff decoding multichannel DSD.  Every other multichannel format I've thrown at it is fine though.  It's right on the limit, so with some code tweaking it might be able to do it. Fingers crossed!

[JimH]

Getting ready for my trip, I found that the Id can be set as a handheld device in MC and you can sync files to it.

Tools>Options>Handhelds>Add Device

Use Browse to find the Id.  It's under Network.  My full path was: \\Idname\Media\Music. 

The sync took about 25 minutes to fill the drive.

[Hilton]

Getting ready for my trip, I found that the Id can be set as a handheld device in MC and you can sync files to it.

Tools>Options>Handhelds>Add Device

Use Browse to find the Id.  It's under Network.  My full path was: \\Idname\Media\Music. 

The sync took about 25 minutes to fill the drive.

Hey that's pretty cool! I never thought of that. I was plugging my USB drive into my media PC to do a handheld sync, that sounds much simpler!

[JimH]

I am somewhat new to this stuff and as such, have newbie questions. Basically, what are the advantages of having the ID vs using the laptop to drive my external hard drive with my rips on it? Any help or expanded answers in general are greatly appreciated.

Your laptop could probably do most of what the Id does if you're willing to manually install Linux and MC.

The Id is a packaged set of hardware and software.   Setup and maintenance problems are reduced or eliminated.  It may be best suited to a person who prefers not to manage an operating system in order to play high quality music.

[Denti]

Just to clarify. Will this not work with a DAC like the MyDAC that requires USB drivers for 24/192 playback?

[astromo]

Just to clarify. Will this not work with a DAC like the MyDAC that requires USB drivers for 24/192 playback?

From what I can make out micromega are quiet on the subject:
http://www.micromega-hifi.com/docs/en/notices/notice_dac_uk.pdf
but if you dig, you might find better advice.

Can't speak for the Id, but if you search around on the general subject of compatibility of the MyDac more globally with Linux then you should gain some confidence about whether it should play nicely with the Id. Probably what you've already done. Thought I'd be that "someone", stating the obvious.

[6233638]

Just to clarify. Will this not work with a DAC like the MyDAC that requires USB drivers for 24/192 playback?

That depends: does it require drivers because it's a UAC2 DAC, and Windows lacks native UAC2 support (typically these support OSX without needing a driver) or does it require drivers because it's proprietary?
If it's a UAC2 device, it should just work on Mac/Linux.

[Hilton]

According to this list the mydac should work with the build of Linux that the Id uses.

(The Id is not directly related to the build from this site but it's using a debian distro which is based on the same kernel)

http://www.ap-linux.com/documentation/supported-dacs/

[Denti]

That depends: does it require drivers because it's a UAC2 DAC, and Windows lacks native UAC2 support (typically these support OSX without needing a driver) or does it require drivers because it's proprietary?
If it's a UAC2 device, it should just work on Mac/Linux.

I can't tell, honestly, though it does work with Macs natively, so that points to the lack of UAC2 support. I'm concerned about future compatibility with other DACs , though I guess most of the good ones don't require drivers, or...?

[Hilton]

UAC2 DAC support is built into the Linux kernel that the Id uses.

If the DAC is fully compliant with UAC2 then it will work with the Id.
There are DACs out there which are not fully UAC2 compliant and therefore need their own proprietary drivers even under Linux.

The MyDac appears to be fully UAC2 compliant so no Linux drivers are required.

All UAC2 DACs do need drivers under windows though because Windows only supports driverless USB 1.1 DACs natively. (some will run in USB1.1 compatibility mode without windows drivers at a reduced maximum sample rate of 96/24)
Don't confuse Windows driver requirements with Linux requirements though.  Linux has the UAC2 compatibility built into the kernel.

[Denti]

How long will this stay at the introductory price?

[500Homeruns]

How long will this stay at the introductory price?

I'm curious too.  Might be in the market for one in a few weeks.

[JimH]

We haven't yet set a date.  Sorry.  It depends partly on the cost of parts.

[Denti]

Will there be a warning before price goes up?

Another question: how audible is the fan?

[JimH]

Probably.

If you're more than a foot or so from the box, it is inaudible.

[500Homeruns]

Sorry if this has been answered before, but can I connect this wirelessly to my WD MyCloud NAS with all of my music stored on it?
Is it possible to use Spotify or Google Play Music with the ID?

[Hilton]

Sorry if this has been answered before, but can I connect this wirelessly to my WD MyCloud NAS with all of my music stored on it?

Yes - I do this with a Seagate wireless 1TB drive.
The DLNA server on WD Mycloud NAS will work the same except its wired via Ethernet. If you have the WD connected to a wireless router then it will work wirelessly with your existing wireless router.

Is it possible to use Spotify or Google Play Music with the ID?

That's a No and no. However, with the windows or mac versions of media centre, you can use theatre view or standard view to access Spotify or google play in media centres built in web browser, but they both wont use media centre for audio unless you run in loopback mode. Suffice to say it works but it will take a bit of help from the forum members to get you going with it.

[eweitzman]

How do you deal with the common mode noise that the Intel NUSs spit out over USB? Do you make any hardware mods to these computers before reselling them?

[dintymoore2003]

Any plans for an A/V renderer along the lines of the Id?

[JimH]

Yes, but it will take some time.

[Paul S.A. Renaud]

In livingroom I have a setup as follows: QNAP (has library of files); QNAP runs Asset (DBPoweramp DLNA server) via ethernet to OPPO 105. The JRiver Id seems very interesting to bypass the playersoftware in the OPPO 105 which is middle-ages. If the Id has an USB out to USB B from OPPO that will work, but the OPPO needs drivers to work. Can those be loaded unto the Id?

[bob]

In livingroom I have a setup as follows: QNAP (has library of files); QNAP runs Asset (DBPoweramp DLNA server) via ethernet to OPPO 105. The JRiver Id seems very interesting to bypass the playersoftware in the OPPO 105 which is middle-ages. If the Id has an USB out to USB B from OPPO that will work, but the OPPO needs drivers to work. Can those be loaded unto the Id?

What kind of drivers? (redistributable?)
Does it then appear to the Id as a standard audio device like a usb DAC?